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	<title>Comments on: On Paul Kelly and political history</title>
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	<description>Blogging politics, culture, sociology and life from Brisvegas</description>
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		<title>By: Jock Garden</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-853370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jock Garden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 04:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-853370</guid>
		<description>Its important when looking at ALP stuff to understand it as a process in movement. It starts as a shift to political action by workers who carry with them a strong committment to lib-labism (the practice of worker activists support middle class liberals, which is generally widespread where there isn&#039;t a workers party). As some of these middle class reformers were slurped into the labor machine from day one, it has always reflected a kind of bizarre class schizophrenia on the one hand aspiring to a better kind of society (eg. socialisation, light on the hill), on the other keeping its action limited to acceptable and relatively mainstream positions.

As the party develops, and new injections of ideas occur, you get, laboratory style, almost as many mixtures as it is possible to imagine.

As others have commented, Lang was a product of that movement. Both his populism, his anti-bank rhetoric, and his anti-semitism all have their roots in the melange of ideas in the early ALP.

As for Keating - I think this is best explained by the collapse of progressive politics. The lesson drawn by most Laborites regarding the reform government of Whitlam, was that serious reform is implausible - which knocked the intellectual stuffing out of the idea of Labor Governments as a means to achieve any kind of substantially different world. Once the Accord process renders redundant labour movement activism, since this becomes irrelevant in an era of centralised wage fixation, this severely curtails the renewing influence of working class activists.  1991 and the self-destruction of the CP deal a major blow to non-Labor transformative politics.

So Keating sits against this backdrop - he is able to lead the ALP, primarily because the party has nowhere else to go. He provided *a* program for them (neo-liberal &#039;reform&#039; plus social liberalism) which succeeded in winning support from the party primarily because of the vacuum of all else.

On the Howard-Keating thing - stylistically, sure some similarities. Both can arguably qualify as &#039;statesmen&#039; (something we could also say of Menzies and Whitlam, though not K.Rudd). There is a strong continuity between Enterprise Bargaining, WorkChoices and Fair Work - all of which profoundly restrict solidarity. But there the similarity ends - Keating sold a message of &#039;accept the pain, in exchange for a modern, broadly progressive political agenda&#039; - something many of the political inheritors of the new left, who by the 1990s had increasingly jettisoned any concern about class, were only too happy to accept. Howard said to the so-called &#039;battlers&#039;: this progressive political agenda by the ex-hippies is *why* you are suffering pain, so let me run the same basic economic framework, with a 50&#039;s derived social agenda instead.

In short what they have in common was an attempt to manage capital in an environment where eroding workers gains of the past was the order of the day.

The exhaustion with the economic package of neo-liberalism is a big reason for K.Rudd&#039;s success, despite his near total failure, either before or since his election, to articulate, let alone act on, *any* kind of distinct program. Its Howard+new pragmatism, that&#039;s it.

 - As an aside, I&#039;ve always questioned to what extent Keating learned much at all from Lang, except perhaps how to &#039;work the numbers&#039; in bureaucratic organisations. Lang, for all his failings, was *connected* to the workers movement, addressed himself significantly to the labour movement, and felt compelled to justify himself to the labour movement. There is also little doubt that the Lang Plan was progressive viz a viz the Premiers Plan, and a partial articulation of working class rejection of the capitalist strategy of making workers pay for the depression. Perhaps not &#039;the Australian Lenin&#039; as my namesake once claimed, but unlike Lang, Keating felt no such compunction to justify or address himself to workers, except for the brief moment of raw populism that salvaged the &#039;93 election for Labor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its important when looking at ALP stuff to understand it as a process in movement. It starts as a shift to political action by workers who carry with them a strong committment to lib-labism (the practice of worker activists support middle class liberals, which is generally widespread where there isn&#8217;t a workers party). As some of these middle class reformers were slurped into the labor machine from day one, it has always reflected a kind of bizarre class schizophrenia on the one hand aspiring to a better kind of society (eg. socialisation, light on the hill), on the other keeping its action limited to acceptable and relatively mainstream positions.</p>
<p>As the party develops, and new injections of ideas occur, you get, laboratory style, almost as many mixtures as it is possible to imagine.</p>
<p>As others have commented, Lang was a product of that movement. Both his populism, his anti-bank rhetoric, and his anti-semitism all have their roots in the melange of ideas in the early ALP.</p>
<p>As for Keating &#8211; I think this is best explained by the collapse of progressive politics. The lesson drawn by most Laborites regarding the reform government of Whitlam, was that serious reform is implausible &#8211; which knocked the intellectual stuffing out of the idea of Labor Governments as a means to achieve any kind of substantially different world. Once the Accord process renders redundant labour movement activism, since this becomes irrelevant in an era of centralised wage fixation, this severely curtails the renewing influence of working class activists.  1991 and the self-destruction of the CP deal a major blow to non-Labor transformative politics.</p>
<p>So Keating sits against this backdrop &#8211; he is able to lead the ALP, primarily because the party has nowhere else to go. He provided *a* program for them (neo-liberal &#8216;reform&#8217; plus social liberalism) which succeeded in winning support from the party primarily because of the vacuum of all else.</p>
<p>On the Howard-Keating thing &#8211; stylistically, sure some similarities. Both can arguably qualify as &#8217;statesmen&#8217; (something we could also say of Menzies and Whitlam, though not K.Rudd). There is a strong continuity between Enterprise Bargaining, WorkChoices and Fair Work &#8211; all of which profoundly restrict solidarity. But there the similarity ends &#8211; Keating sold a message of &#8216;accept the pain, in exchange for a modern, broadly progressive political agenda&#8217; &#8211; something many of the political inheritors of the new left, who by the 1990s had increasingly jettisoned any concern about class, were only too happy to accept. Howard said to the so-called &#8216;battlers&#8217;: this progressive political agenda by the ex-hippies is *why* you are suffering pain, so let me run the same basic economic framework, with a 50&#8217;s derived social agenda instead.</p>
<p>In short what they have in common was an attempt to manage capital in an environment where eroding workers gains of the past was the order of the day.</p>
<p>The exhaustion with the economic package of neo-liberalism is a big reason for K.Rudd&#8217;s success, despite his near total failure, either before or since his election, to articulate, let alone act on, *any* kind of distinct program. Its Howard+new pragmatism, that&#8217;s it.</p>
<p> &#8211; As an aside, I&#8217;ve always questioned to what extent Keating learned much at all from Lang, except perhaps how to &#8216;work the numbers&#8217; in bureaucratic organisations. Lang, for all his failings, was *connected* to the workers movement, addressed himself significantly to the labour movement, and felt compelled to justify himself to the labour movement. There is also little doubt that the Lang Plan was progressive viz a viz the Premiers Plan, and a partial articulation of working class rejection of the capitalist strategy of making workers pay for the depression. Perhaps not &#8216;the Australian Lenin&#8217; as my namesake once claimed, but unlike Lang, Keating felt no such compunction to justify or address himself to workers, except for the brief moment of raw populism that salvaged the &#8216;93 election for Labor.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837828</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837828</guid>
		<description>Nickws @ 39,
I agree re terminology on Premier&#039;s Plan. I was, I hope, alluding here to Lang&#039;s personal anti-semitism. However we do need to consider to what extent reactions in Australia fitted into the world wide anti-semitism of the time in Britain, France, Russia, Germany etc. I&#039;m specifically refraining from mentioning Nazism here (Italian Fascism seems to be a peculiar beast in this regard) because anti-Semitism existed outside that anti-Semitism inherent in Nazi ideology. (The New Guard here was anti-Semetic and aped Hitler, but they were also a bunch of laughable middle-class suburban incompetents).
As for using the term radical for liberal. I absolutely take your point, but radical does mean more than liberal - 19C/early 20C socialist tendencies for example, so it presents the same sort of confusion over terminology and definition - [the historian&#039;s bane, sort of. :)]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nickws @ 39,<br />
I agree re terminology on Premier&#8217;s Plan. I was, I hope, alluding here to Lang&#8217;s personal anti-semitism. However we do need to consider to what extent reactions in Australia fitted into the world wide anti-semitism of the time in Britain, France, Russia, Germany etc. I&#8217;m specifically refraining from mentioning Nazism here (Italian Fascism seems to be a peculiar beast in this regard) because anti-Semitism existed outside that anti-Semitism inherent in Nazi ideology. (The New Guard here was anti-Semetic and aped Hitler, but they were also a bunch of laughable middle-class suburban incompetents).<br />
As for using the term radical for liberal. I absolutely take your point, but radical does mean more than liberal &#8211; 19C/early 20C socialist tendencies for example, so it presents the same sort of confusion over terminology and definition &#8211; [the historian's bane, sort of. <img src='http://larvatusprodeo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ]</p>
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		<title>By: Nickws</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837801</link>
		<dc:creator>Nickws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837801</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Paul Burns @ 28&lt;/em&gt;: The criticisms of Niemeyer were a reflection of Lang’s well-documented anti-semitism, another populist strain, and his criticisms of British bond-holders had implications of a (non-existent) international financial conspiracy, yet another populist strain. (Eddie Ward was still rabbitting on about the latter with his condemnation of the IMF and Bretton Woods in the late 1940s.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There is much truth in this, though personally I wouldn&#039;t go as far as to say that everbody who spoke of the Premiers Plan being the Niemeyer Plan was influenced by anti-Semitism. The most recent Lang author, Dr Frank Cain, uses the &#039;Niemeyer Plan&#039; formulation. And I don&#039;t think that a tenured UNSW academic is that irresponsible.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I was rather more thinking of how Lang fitted into the early liberal tradition within the ALP, which along with socialism,single-taxers, workers’ utopias etc, all went into the mix of early Labor ideology (so much so, if I remember rightly that they had no problems going into coalition with the Deakinite Liberals in the earliest years of the 20th century).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Isn&#039;t it easier just to use &#039;Radical&#039; in its original 19th century meaning? &#039;Liberalism&#039; is just too awkward, too diverse, particularly for a modern audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>Paul Burns @ 28</em>: The criticisms of Niemeyer were a reflection of Lang’s well-documented anti-semitism, another populist strain, and his criticisms of British bond-holders had implications of a (non-existent) international financial conspiracy, yet another populist strain. (Eddie Ward was still rabbitting on about the latter with his condemnation of the IMF and Bretton Woods in the late 1940s.)</p></blockquote>
<p>There is much truth in this, though personally I wouldn&#8217;t go as far as to say that everbody who spoke of the Premiers Plan being the Niemeyer Plan was influenced by anti-Semitism. The most recent Lang author, Dr Frank Cain, uses the &#8216;Niemeyer Plan&#8217; formulation. And I don&#8217;t think that a tenured UNSW academic is that irresponsible.</p>
<blockquote><p>I was rather more thinking of how Lang fitted into the early liberal tradition within the ALP, which along with socialism,single-taxers, workers’ utopias etc, all went into the mix of early Labor ideology (so much so, if I remember rightly that they had no problems going into coalition with the Deakinite Liberals in the earliest years of the 20th century).</p></blockquote>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it easier just to use &#8216;Radical&#8217; in its original 19th century meaning? &#8216;Liberalism&#8217; is just too awkward, too diverse, particularly for a modern audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Jazz Creepo</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837780</link>
		<dc:creator>Jazz Creepo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837780</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read any of Paul Kelly&#039;s books.  But, having read his work in The Oz and his pronouncements on the Insiders, I have no inclination to read them.  Even Alan Jones has more integrity than PK.  He does not try put up a pretence of being intellectual or superior.
then 
He tries to build a huge head of steam with 10 dollar words and says the bleeding obvious.  His limited talent appears to be critical of ALP or Rudd without trying to be obvious about it.  Usually that is done by giving poor Malcolm a serve as well (even-handedness???).

I think Insiders would do a lot better in trying to rope someone like Michelle Gratten on the show.  PK needs to be exposed like the emperor who has no clothes.  And that incessant lip sucking...brrrrr...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read any of Paul Kelly&#8217;s books.  But, having read his work in The Oz and his pronouncements on the Insiders, I have no inclination to read them.  Even Alan Jones has more integrity than PK.  He does not try put up a pretence of being intellectual or superior.<br />
then<br />
He tries to build a huge head of steam with 10 dollar words and says the bleeding obvious.  His limited talent appears to be critical of ALP or Rudd without trying to be obvious about it.  Usually that is done by giving poor Malcolm a serve as well (even-handedness???).</p>
<p>I think Insiders would do a lot better in trying to rope someone like Michelle Gratten on the show.  PK needs to be exposed like the emperor who has no clothes.  And that incessant lip sucking&#8230;brrrrr&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: daggett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837732</link>
		<dc:creator>daggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837732</guid>
		<description>Not sure what happened to the link in my &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-837731&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;above post&lt;/a&gt;.  Here it is again:

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://candobetter.org/node/1561&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;‘Interview’ with Paul Kelly yet more free ABC advertising for Rupert Murdoch&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure what happened to the link in my <a href="#comment-837731" rel="nofollow">above post</a>.  Here it is again:</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://candobetter.org/node/1561" rel="nofollow">‘Interview’ with Paul Kelly yet more free ABC advertising for Rupert Murdoch</a></strong></p>
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		<title>By: daggett</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837731</link>
		<dc:creator>daggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837731</guid>
		<description>I wrote a short article after I heard Paul Kelly interviewed by Richard Fidler on his day time &lt;em&gt;Conversations&lt;/em&gt; program:

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a&gt;&#039;Interview&#039; with Paul Kelly yet more free ABC advertising for Rupert Murdoch&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

The Murdoch press promotion of Paul Kelly&#039;s misnamed book &lt;em&gt;The March of Patriots&lt;/em&gt;, chronicling the Prime Ministerships of Paul Keating and the early years of John Howard&#039;s, has been supplemented, at taxpayers&#039; expense, by Brisbane ABC local radio stations Conversations program.&#160;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a&gt;...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote a short article after I heard Paul Kelly interviewed by Richard Fidler on his day time <em>Conversations</em> program:</p>
<p><strong><a>&#8216;Interview&#8217; with Paul Kelly yet more free ABC advertising for Rupert Murdoch</a></strong></p>
<p>The Murdoch press promotion of Paul Kelly&#8217;s misnamed book <em>The March of Patriots</em>, chronicling the Prime Ministerships of Paul Keating and the early years of John Howard&#8217;s, has been supplemented, at taxpayers&#8217; expense, by Brisbane ABC local radio stations Conversations program.&nbsp;<strong><a>&#8230;</a></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837672</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837672</guid>
		<description>Katz,
Yeah. I wondered why he didn&#039;t scream blue murder too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katz,<br />
Yeah. I wondered why he didn&#8217;t scream blue murder too.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837663</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837663</guid>
		<description>In many ways Andrew Wilkie didn&#039;t have his wits about him.

When Senator Sandy MacDonald started using the classified report authored by Wilkie himself (30 minutes into the video) Wilkie should have made a huge protest about the illegal use of classified information and utterly refused to confirm or deny material protected by the dread provisions of the Crimes Act.

Ratty and the leakers would have been severely embarrassed for endangering Australian national security in pursuit of a personal vendetta.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In many ways Andrew Wilkie didn&#8217;t have his wits about him.</p>
<p>When Senator Sandy MacDonald started using the classified report authored by Wilkie himself (30 minutes into the video) Wilkie should have made a huge protest about the illegal use of classified information and utterly refused to confirm or deny material protected by the dread provisions of the Crimes Act.</p>
<p>Ratty and the leakers would have been severely embarrassed for endangering Australian national security in pursuit of a personal vendetta.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837655</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837655</guid>
		<description>Katz @ 30,
Thanks for putting me onto that doco. One wonders how Howard managed all these things and yet managed to appear he was not involved. Hopefully when they open the Archives in 30 years all this will be revealed. Was quite disturbed by the doco, but not surprised.

Geoff Robinson @ 32,
Good to &quot;meet&quot; another historian who has a fascination with J. T. Lang.
My research work on him has been mostly concerned with his post 1930s career - during WW2, especially in relation to the Brisbane Line and his attitudes/non-relationship toward Curtin at that time.
And with his career as an Independent in Federal Parliament 1946-149, on which I based my honours thesis.
Though I have studied and lectured on the Lang Government during the Great Depression.
Will read your book.
Cheers,
PB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katz @ 30,<br />
Thanks for putting me onto that doco. One wonders how Howard managed all these things and yet managed to appear he was not involved. Hopefully when they open the Archives in 30 years all this will be revealed. Was quite disturbed by the doco, but not surprised.</p>
<p>Geoff Robinson @ 32,<br />
Good to &#8220;meet&#8221; another historian who has a fascination with J. T. Lang.<br />
My research work on him has been mostly concerned with his post 1930s career &#8211; during WW2, especially in relation to the Brisbane Line and his attitudes/non-relationship toward Curtin at that time.<br />
And with his career as an Independent in Federal Parliament 1946-149, on which I based my honours thesis.<br />
Though I have studied and lectured on the Lang Government during the Great Depression.<br />
Will read your book.<br />
Cheers,<br />
PB.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Robinson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837644</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837644</guid>
		<description>Lang was a strange one, but &#039;Langism&#039; was a form of class politics that reflected the radicalization of the working class by imperialist war and capitalist crisis, see my book on Lang; http://www.geoffrobinson.info/?page_id=399</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lang was a strange one, but &#8216;Langism&#8217; was a form of class politics that reflected the radicalization of the working class by imperialist war and capitalist crisis, see my book on Lang; <a href="http://www.geoffrobinson.info/?page_id=399" rel="nofollow">http://www.geoffrobinson.info/?page_id=399</a></p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837641</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837641</guid>
		<description>Katz @ 29,
Agree with you about Billy Hughes.
I think implicit in my remarks about Howard&#039;s self-identification with neocon ideology (which included identification with Bush foreign policy) was a sense of how Howard was driven by conviction.
I should have made it clearer that both Hughes and Howard were driven by personal conviction. My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katz @ 29,<br />
Agree with you about Billy Hughes.<br />
I think implicit in my remarks about Howard&#8217;s self-identification with neocon ideology (which included identification with Bush foreign policy) was a sense of how Howard was driven by conviction.<br />
I should have made it clearer that both Hughes and Howard were driven by personal conviction. My bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837637</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837637</guid>
		<description>On John Winston Howard&#039;s clever lies in pursuit of his neoliberal convictions, do yourself a favour and watch &lt;a href=&quot;http://player.sbs.com.au/programs#/programs_08/fullepisodes/latestepisodes/playlist/Law-And-Disorder-Ep-1-Andrew-Wilkie-The-Perfect-Whistleblower/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this doco&lt;/a&gt; on the crucifixion of Andrew Willkie.

But be quick. It won&#039;t be up for long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On John Winston Howard&#8217;s clever lies in pursuit of his neoliberal convictions, do yourself a favour and watch <a href="http://player.sbs.com.au/programs#/programs_08/fullepisodes/latestepisodes/playlist/Law-And-Disorder-Ep-1-Andrew-Wilkie-The-Perfect-Whistleblower/" rel="nofollow">this doco</a> on the crucifixion of Andrew Willkie.</p>
<p>But be quick. It won&#8217;t be up for long.</p>
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		<title>By: Katz</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837634</link>
		<dc:creator>Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837634</guid>
		<description>PB, the British governing classes may have &quot;duchessed&quot; Hughes and the America&#039;s evanescent neolib ascendency may have &quot;duchessed&quot; Howard, but neither required &quot;duchessing&quot; to arrive at the foreign policy positions that both espoused with single-minded vigour.

In foreign policy terms, both Hughes and Howard were driven by conviction.

Hughes was prepared to tear his party and the country apart over his failed pursuit of conscription.

Howard, more cleverly, pushed the Iraq/Afghan commitment to the limit, but not beyond, of public toleration.

Hughes used Imperial loyalism as a stalking horse for a prickly and combative, but stunted, nationalism. He was prepared to exploit Australian racism to achieve this vision.

Howard used Australian nationalism as a stalking horse for his surrender of Australian interests and their subsumption under the rubric of Bush&#039;s inchoate and ramshackle &quot;Coalition of the Willing&quot;. He was prepared to exploit Australian racism to achieve this vision.

Rudd still hasn&#039;t worked out what to do with Howard&#039;s legacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PB, the British governing classes may have &#8220;duchessed&#8221; Hughes and the America&#8217;s evanescent neolib ascendency may have &#8220;duchessed&#8221; Howard, but neither required &#8220;duchessing&#8221; to arrive at the foreign policy positions that both espoused with single-minded vigour.</p>
<p>In foreign policy terms, both Hughes and Howard were driven by conviction.</p>
<p>Hughes was prepared to tear his party and the country apart over his failed pursuit of conscription.</p>
<p>Howard, more cleverly, pushed the Iraq/Afghan commitment to the limit, but not beyond, of public toleration.</p>
<p>Hughes used Imperial loyalism as a stalking horse for a prickly and combative, but stunted, nationalism. He was prepared to exploit Australian racism to achieve this vision.</p>
<p>Howard used Australian nationalism as a stalking horse for his surrender of Australian interests and their subsumption under the rubric of Bush&#8217;s inchoate and ramshackle &#8220;Coalition of the Willing&#8221;. He was prepared to exploit Australian racism to achieve this vision.</p>
<p>Rudd still hasn&#8217;t worked out what to do with Howard&#8217;s legacy.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837613</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837613</guid>
		<description>Nickws @ 26,
I haven&#039;t read Cain&#039;s book and its years since I&#039;ve read Nairn&#039;s.
No. I don&#039;t think Lang was Australia&#039;s FDR. As I recall, the Lang Plan never got up. More than anything else it was a piece of anti-banking populism if my memory of my reading is right, and that always went down well in hard times. The criticisms of Niemeyer were a reflection of Lang&#039;s well-documented anti-semitism, another populist strain, and his criticisms of British bond-holders had implications of a (non-existent) international financial conspiracy, yet another populist strain. (Eddie Ward was still rabbitting on about the latter with his condemnation of the IMF and Bretton Woods in the late 1940s.) 
I was rather more thinking of how Lang fitted into the early liberal tradition within the ALP, which along with socialism,single-taxers, workers&#039; utopias etc, all went into the mix of early Labor ideology (so much so, if I remember rightly that they had no problems going into coalition with the Deakinite Liberals in the earliest years of the 20th century).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nickws @ 26,<br />
I haven&#8217;t read Cain&#8217;s book and its years since I&#8217;ve read Nairn&#8217;s.<br />
No. I don&#8217;t think Lang was Australia&#8217;s FDR. As I recall, the Lang Plan never got up. More than anything else it was a piece of anti-banking populism if my memory of my reading is right, and that always went down well in hard times. The criticisms of Niemeyer were a reflection of Lang&#8217;s well-documented anti-semitism, another populist strain, and his criticisms of British bond-holders had implications of a (non-existent) international financial conspiracy, yet another populist strain. (Eddie Ward was still rabbitting on about the latter with his condemnation of the IMF and Bretton Woods in the late 1940s.)<br />
I was rather more thinking of how Lang fitted into the early liberal tradition within the ALP, which along with socialism,single-taxers, workers&#8217; utopias etc, all went into the mix of early Labor ideology (so much so, if I remember rightly that they had no problems going into coalition with the Deakinite Liberals in the earliest years of the 20th century).</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Barlow</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837595</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Barlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837595</guid>
		<description>Couldn&#039;t agree more Trengo. Paul Kelly is a vacuous rightwing whoopee cushion. It&#039;s insulting that people allow his gasbagging to contaminate the public space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree more Trengo. Paul Kelly is a vacuous rightwing whoopee cushion. It&#8217;s insulting that people allow his gasbagging to contaminate the public space.</p>
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		<title>By: Nickws</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837594</link>
		<dc:creator>Nickws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837594</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Anthony Nolan @ 16&lt;/em&gt;: ...Kelly is as politically and critically uninformed as any other Australian journalistic Alan Bigenuff. In short Kelly is bunkum and dangerously unaware of his inadequacies.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Kelly put himself forward as a serious historian with &#039;The End of Certainty&#039;, with  his thesis of the Australian Settlement (which is really a thesis began by others, such as John Manning Ward, though AFAIK Kelly is the one who thought to call it the `settlement&#039;.)

Yet in the few historical passages of that book, Kelly (a.) placed an inordinate emphasis on his conception of state economic interventionism, and (b.) was woefully unconcerned with &lt;em&gt;everything&lt;/em&gt; else in Australian history. The British Empire? The White Australia policy? The Americans? Communism? Catholics, Aborigines, women? None of these subjects existed in Kellyworld, at least not before he made a documentary for the ABC (with the help of a production team, of course.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Paul Burns @ 18&lt;/em&gt;: One wonders how much of Lang’s liberalism he soaked up&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Paul, you&#039;ve written here that Lang was &#039;Australia&#039;s FDR&#039;, correct?

I know that&#039;s the argument put forth by Frank Cain in his recent work &lt;em&gt;Jack Lang and the Great Depression&lt;/em&gt;.

I disagree with Cain&#039;s view. In fact, I was concerned to read the odd `speaker&#039;s corner&#039; polemical touches in that book; for instance, the Premiers Plan being only referred to as &#039;The Niemeyer Plan&#039;; or the vote to bring down the Scullin government being described as a poor decision... made by Scullin. Perhaps this is the reason for Cain&#039;s book being published by a very minor publishing house---the Louise Adlers and the UQPs like there history a little bit less eccentric.

Anyway, Bede Nairn&#039;s critique in the &#039;Big Fella&#039; suits me fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>Anthony Nolan @ 16</em>: &#8230;Kelly is as politically and critically uninformed as any other Australian journalistic Alan Bigenuff. In short Kelly is bunkum and dangerously unaware of his inadequacies.</p></blockquote>
<p>Kelly put himself forward as a serious historian with &#8216;The End of Certainty&#8217;, with  his thesis of the Australian Settlement (which is really a thesis began by others, such as John Manning Ward, though AFAIK Kelly is the one who thought to call it the `settlement&#8217;.)</p>
<p>Yet in the few historical passages of that book, Kelly (a.) placed an inordinate emphasis on his conception of state economic interventionism, and (b.) was woefully unconcerned with <em>everything</em> else in Australian history. The British Empire? The White Australia policy? The Americans? Communism? Catholics, Aborigines, women? None of these subjects existed in Kellyworld, at least not before he made a documentary for the ABC (with the help of a production team, of course.)</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Paul Burns @ 18</em>: One wonders how much of Lang’s liberalism he soaked up</p></blockquote>
<p>Paul, you&#8217;ve written here that Lang was &#8216;Australia&#8217;s FDR&#8217;, correct?</p>
<p>I know that&#8217;s the argument put forth by Frank Cain in his recent work <em>Jack Lang and the Great Depression</em>.</p>
<p>I disagree with Cain&#8217;s view. In fact, I was concerned to read the odd `speaker&#8217;s corner&#8217; polemical touches in that book; for instance, the Premiers Plan being only referred to as &#8216;The Niemeyer Plan&#8217;; or the vote to bring down the Scullin government being described as a poor decision&#8230; made by Scullin. Perhaps this is the reason for Cain&#8217;s book being published by a very minor publishing house&#8212;the Louise Adlers and the UQPs like there history a little bit less eccentric.</p>
<p>Anyway, Bede Nairn&#8217;s critique in the &#8216;Big Fella&#8217; suits me fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Trengo</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837592</link>
		<dc:creator>Trengo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837592</guid>
		<description>Lets face it, he&#039;s a stupid boring old murdoch grovelling turd who should just have his writing career euthanized. 

When an editor, he mainly just snivelled to Suharto (Murdoch&#039;s favorite at the time).  

He&#039;s just an irrelevant, pompous old bastard.

I&#039;m really really looking forward to the Australian being shut down and the creeps who write there having to get real jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets face it, he&#8217;s a stupid boring old murdoch grovelling turd who should just have his writing career euthanized. </p>
<p>When an editor, he mainly just snivelled to Suharto (Murdoch&#8217;s favorite at the time).  </p>
<p>He&#8217;s just an irrelevant, pompous old bastard.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m really really looking forward to the Australian being shut down and the creeps who write there having to get real jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Burns</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837560</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837560</guid>
		<description>Though in Hughes&#039; case it was defeat in anti-conscription plebescites, not an election. And the &quot;duchessing&quot; had to do with getting him to consent to send more Aussies to the Western Front. (I should have made that clear.) However, his international recognition, of the kind Howard obtained, doesn&#039;t come till the Versailles negotiations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though in Hughes&#8217; case it was defeat in anti-conscription plebescites, not an election. And the &#8220;duchessing&#8221; had to do with getting him to consent to send more Aussies to the Western Front. (I should have made that clear.) However, his international recognition, of the kind Howard obtained, doesn&#8217;t come till the Versailles negotiations.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginja</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837559</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837559</guid>
		<description>..frin? Meant from, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>..frin? Meant from, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginja</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/11/18/on-paul-kelly-and-political-history/comment-page-1/#comment-837558</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=10945#comment-837558</guid>
		<description>I heard Christos Tsiolkas give an interview about his book &quot;The Slap&quot; in which he said Paul Keating and John Howard were joined in his mind.  I usually go purple with rage when ignorant twits say there&#039;s no difference between Labor and Liberal, and in retrospect the differences between Keating and Howard are even more obvious, but still there&#039;s something to that.

What the likes of Kelly never want to confront is just how inseparable neo-liberalism is frin base and ugly prejudices.  The likes of Kelly like to talk about &quot;flexible labor market reform&quot; - as if this wasn&#039;t rooted in age-old Tory class bigotry.  All around the world neo-liberalism and xenophobia (some version of Hansonism) seem entwined - either to be used by cynical neo-liberal politicians to distract from the unpopularity of their own policies or as a result of those policies creating unemployment, insecurity and damaging communities (note I&#039;m being generous and not accusing neo-liberals of being Hansonites to begin with).  It&#039;s probably true that those countries that have embraced neo-liberalism most enthusiastically have had the highest economic growth rates, but they also have the highest growth in prison populations.

In other words, there&#039;s some deeply ugly stuff that just can&#039;t be disentangled from neo-liberalism - much as the likes of Kelly would like to see it as a bloodless affair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard Christos Tsiolkas give an interview about his book &#8220;The Slap&#8221; in which he said Paul Keating and John Howard were joined in his mind.  I usually go purple with rage when ignorant twits say there&#8217;s no difference between Labor and Liberal, and in retrospect the differences between Keating and Howard are even more obvious, but still there&#8217;s something to that.</p>
<p>What the likes of Kelly never want to confront is just how inseparable neo-liberalism is frin base and ugly prejudices.  The likes of Kelly like to talk about &#8220;flexible labor market reform&#8221; &#8211; as if this wasn&#8217;t rooted in age-old Tory class bigotry.  All around the world neo-liberalism and xenophobia (some version of Hansonism) seem entwined &#8211; either to be used by cynical neo-liberal politicians to distract from the unpopularity of their own policies or as a result of those policies creating unemployment, insecurity and damaging communities (note I&#8217;m being generous and not accusing neo-liberals of being Hansonites to begin with).  It&#8217;s probably true that those countries that have embraced neo-liberalism most enthusiastically have had the highest economic growth rates, but they also have the highest growth in prison populations.</p>
<p>In other words, there&#8217;s some deeply ugly stuff that just can&#8217;t be disentangled from neo-liberalism &#8211; much as the likes of Kelly would like to see it as a bloodless affair.</p>
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