Comments on: The Women http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:23:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Anna Winter http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114793 Anna Winter Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:17:41 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114793 I'm here mostly for the lulz. I’m here mostly for the lulz.

]]> By: anthony nolan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114792 anthony nolan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:22:43 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114792 Anna: genuine laugh out loud. Thanks and goodnight. Anna: genuine laugh out loud. Thanks and goodnight.

]]> By: anthony nolan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114791 anthony nolan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:16:11 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114791 wbb: alright, I agree. I have observed one spectacular case in the academy of a genius level woman not being promoted appropriately and in a timely fashion. The reasons mainly had to do with her critical intellectual competence. The people who failed to advance her, however, were mainly women. So it is a complex issue but you are correct in so far as there appears to me to be a surplus of moribund male staff occupying the space. Things are clarifying for me: the advancement of gender equity through equality of presence and participation of women is a valid democratic political objective in and of itself. It does not and will not serve to advance any other agenda than that of stengthening democracy. This is because the ethical competence and other competencies of women are neither greater nor less than those of men. That said it remains to contest the politics of those in power regardless of their gender. The equal presence of women means an equal presence of reactionaries and progressives, an equal presence of dipshits and democrats. It would however be an advance for democracy. wbb: alright, I agree. I have observed one spectacular case in the academy of a genius level woman not being promoted appropriately and in a timely fashion. The reasons mainly had to do with her critical intellectual competence. The people who failed to advance her, however, were mainly women. So it is a complex issue but you are correct in so far as there appears to me to be a surplus of moribund male staff occupying the space.

Things are clarifying for me: the advancement of gender equity through equality of presence and participation of women is a valid democratic political objective in and of itself. It does not and will not serve to advance any other agenda than that of stengthening democracy. This is because the ethical competence and other competencies of women are neither greater nor less than those of men. That said it remains to contest the politics of those in power regardless of their gender. The equal presence of women means an equal presence of reactionaries and progressives, an equal presence of dipshits and democrats.

It would however be an advance for democracy.

]]> By: Anna Winter http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114790 Anna Winter Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:59:53 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114790 Anthony, I only appear to contradict what you think I'm saying. Anthony, I only appear to contradict what you think I’m saying.

]]> By: furious balancing http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114789 furious balancing Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:56:42 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114789 Geez Anthony, there's a difference between acknowledging and endorsing. There are people in politics who many consider undeserving of the office, some may suggest men are over-represented in this regard. The intent with this post is simply to say parity is parity, it's not an endorsement of mediocrity. Geez Anthony, there’s a difference between acknowledging and endorsing. There are people in politics who many consider undeserving of the office, some may suggest men are over-represented in this regard. The intent with this post is simply to say parity is parity, it’s not an endorsement of mediocrity.

]]> By: wbb http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114788 wbb Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:46:22 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114788 People (err men in this thread) need to at least demonstrate that they understand that the particulars of the Hardie case are irrelevant to the issue of whether or not women are held to a higher standard than men before they can be taken seriously. Comments implying that anybody is suggesting anybody should go soft on anybody at Hardies are embarrassingly missing the point. I know that I hold women to a higher standard than men despite myself. I constantly catch myself scrutinising women (whether it is Wong or Hellicar or a female sports commentator) more closely than I would a man. I haven't been able to determine what percentage of that over-burdened regard is due to my own ingrained sexism; and what is due to other-phobia; and what is due to the subtle "surprise" effect that women in certain places still effects on me. (I hasten to add in my defense that I am able to discern these responses most of the time - and do compensate for them before I open my mouth or make up my mind.) People (err men in this thread) need to at least demonstrate that they understand that the particulars of the Hardie case are irrelevant to the issue of whether or not women are held to a higher standard than men before they can be taken seriously.

Comments implying that anybody is suggesting anybody should go soft on anybody at Hardies are embarrassingly missing the point.

I know that I hold women to a higher standard than men despite myself. I constantly catch myself scrutinising women (whether it is Wong or Hellicar or a female sports commentator) more closely than I would a man.

I haven’t been able to determine what percentage of that over-burdened regard is due to my own ingrained sexism; and what is due to other-phobia; and what is due to the subtle “surprise” effect that women in certain places still effects on me.

(I hasten to add in my defense that I am able to discern these responses most of the time – and do compensate for them before I open my mouth or make up my mind.)

]]> By: anthony nolan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114787 anthony nolan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:43:05 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114787 Anna: this has been a fruitful and well mannered dialogue so far as I'm concerned. However, with respect, I don't know what to do with this @39: "As long as there are ludicrous opinion pieces being written, I’m going to celebrate that some of them are being written by women, and as long as there are both political ideologues and factional warriors lacking in any sort of policy beliefs at all, I’m going to celebrate that some of them are women, too." You appear to contradict yourself. Anna: this has been a fruitful and well mannered dialogue so far as I’m concerned. However, with respect, I don’t know what to do with this @39:

“As long as there are ludicrous opinion pieces being written, I’m going to celebrate that some of them are being written by women, and as long as there are both political ideologues and factional warriors lacking in any sort of policy beliefs at all, I’m going to celebrate that some of them are women, too.”

You appear to contradict yourself.

]]> By: Anna Winter http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114786 Anna Winter Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:37:26 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114786 anthony, you've been told numerous times that your interpretation of what we're saying is wrong, and that we are not celebrating women no matter what, nor do we advocate a race to the bottom. Open mind: I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. anthony, you’ve been told numerous times that your interpretation of what we’re saying is wrong, and that we are not celebrating women no matter what, nor do we advocate a race to the bottom.

Open mind: I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean.

]]> By: Anna Winter http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114785 Anna Winter Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:33:50 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114785 desipis, it's worth noting that in your outrage about the sexism of a 40% quota for women in the ALP, you completely failed to mention that the very same rule also requires 40% for men. In my many years as a member of a faction, counting, organising and participating in votes in the Labor party, I can point you to <strong>one</strong> time when the 40% men rule kicked in. But yes, let's all cry about how it's affirmative action for women that's the problem. desipis, it’s worth noting that in your outrage about the sexism of a 40% quota for women in the ALP, you completely failed to mention that the very same rule also requires 40% for men.

In my many years as a member of a faction, counting, organising and participating in votes in the Labor party, I can point you to one time when the 40% men rule kicked in.

But yes, let’s all cry about how it’s affirmative action for women that’s the problem.

]]> By: anthony nolan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/the-women/#comment-114784 anthony nolan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:26:50 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11377#comment-114784 Laura: your locquacious clarity has convinced me. Thanks for that. Laura: your locquacious clarity has convinced me. Thanks for that.

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