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	<title>Comments on: What’s going on with the National Curriculum?</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: John Davidson</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114807</link>
		<dc:creator>John Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114807</guid>
		<description>I remember a Geography prof arguing the case for retaining geography at school on the ground that kids needed to know how glaciers affected landforms. It is twaddle like this that gives us an education system that wastes a lot of time learning a little about a lot instead of the real core skills.
I would put it to you that the real core skills for someone who has to live in this rapidly changing world are the ability to learn new things, solve new problems, find new information, deal with new ideas and think critically.  We are not going to learn these core skills without learning how to read, write etc.  We are also not going to learn them if we don&#039;t spend much time actually using these core skills to deal with real learning, real concepts etc.
This doesn&#039;t mean that there aren&#039;t some things we need to learn that have nothing much to do with the core skills. For example, we do need to learn about things like road safety, civil responsibilities, using maps etc.  Somehow we also need to develop curiosity and a love of learning - If we learn this we can do what I did - find out about the effect of glaciers after leaving school.
The core skills should have much more influence on what goes into the curriculum.  Some subjects provide a good basis for learning one or more of the core skills and developing our intellectual muscle.  Other subjects don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember a Geography prof arguing the case for retaining geography at school on the ground that kids needed to know how glaciers affected landforms. It is twaddle like this that gives us an education system that wastes a lot of time learning a little about a lot instead of the real core skills.<br />
I would put it to you that the real core skills for someone who has to live in this rapidly changing world are the ability to learn new things, solve new problems, find new information, deal with new ideas and think critically.  We are not going to learn these core skills without learning how to read, write etc.  We are also not going to learn them if we don&#8217;t spend much time actually using these core skills to deal with real learning, real concepts etc.<br />
This doesn&#8217;t mean that there aren&#8217;t some things we need to learn that have nothing much to do with the core skills. For example, we do need to learn about things like road safety, civil responsibilities, using maps etc.  Somehow we also need to develop curiosity and a love of learning &#8211; If we learn this we can do what I did &#8211; find out about the effect of glaciers after leaving school.<br />
The core skills should have much more influence on what goes into the curriculum.  Some subjects provide a good basis for learning one or more of the core skills and developing our intellectual muscle.  Other subjects don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Merkel</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114806</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 02:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114806</guid>
		<description>BTW, rereading the comment, I forgot the &quot;other perspective&quot;, which is as a university educator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, rereading the comment, I forgot the &#8220;other perspective&#8221;, which is as a university educator.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Zivcec</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114805</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Zivcec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 01:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114805</guid>
		<description>Robert Merkel@11, Couldn&#039;t agree more.

Recently I ran a year 10 Sciene class teaching acceleration. Whilst some student struggled to understand the concept, others had already completed a workbook of example problems.

Knowing up front that this class had diverse levels of scientific and mathematical understanding, I relied heavily on IT resources. For those struggling I used models and films ( on computer) to help visualise and test the concepts. For those advanced, I prepared &quot;self diredted&quot; tasks.
Lots of prep work ( up till eleven the night before) lots of logistics, lots of one-on-one time to diagnose where students were at and direct them to the right resources.... and I am sure a number of students still felt they did as get much of my time or attention as they needed.... and in this example there were no students with serious behavioural issues.

Now I am only a student teacher- but I think we are asking too much of teachers, and if we are to keep the single classroom approach, I look forward to seeing a model that looks at how we would support teachers through this. Otherwise we have to expect mediocre results &amp; burnt out teachers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Merkel@11, Couldn&#8217;t agree more.</p>
<p>Recently I ran a year 10 Sciene class teaching acceleration. Whilst some student struggled to understand the concept, others had already completed a workbook of example problems.</p>
<p>Knowing up front that this class had diverse levels of scientific and mathematical understanding, I relied heavily on IT resources. For those struggling I used models and films ( on computer) to help visualise and test the concepts. For those advanced, I prepared &#8220;self diredted&#8221; tasks.<br />
Lots of prep work ( up till eleven the night before) lots of logistics, lots of one-on-one time to diagnose where students were at and direct them to the right resources&#8230;. and I am sure a number of students still felt they did as get much of my time or attention as they needed&#8230;. and in this example there were no students with serious behavioural issues.</p>
<p>Now I am only a student teacher- but I think we are asking too much of teachers, and if we are to keep the single classroom approach, I look forward to seeing a model that looks at how we would support teachers through this. Otherwise we have to expect mediocre results &amp; burnt out teachers.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Merkel</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114804</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 23:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114804</guid>
		<description>Susan, I&#039;d like to take up one point you briefly raise:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Another interesting idea in the national curriculum is the move away from different classes for students with different rates of development. Whilst clearly we could all support the aim of giving all students an equal quality of education, there is no doubt there will be increased burden on teachers who are trying to accommodate both kids who struggle with the basics and those who are advanced learners. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m unconvinced of the idea that putting &quot;students with different rates of development&quot; is necessarily the best, or even a good, way to achieve &quot;giving all students an equal quality of education&quot;.

I&#039;ll come at this from two perspectives.  The first was as a schoolkid myself, which pretty much coincided with the Cain-Kirner government in Victoria.  Joan Kirner was, if I recall correctly, Education Minister before she became Premier.  In any case, maybe it&#039;s entirely coincidental that Kirner, somebody who went to University High and went to university at 16, presided over an era of &quot;mixed ability classes&quot; where any kind of streaming was effectively squashed.

I don&#039;t think it served anyone well - the more academically-gifted students who were bored witless and in some cases spent a fair bit of their time as &lt;EM&gt;de facto&lt;/EM&gt; assistant teachers, the ones who struggled who were also bored and frustrated (though I recall there being much more done for that group than the &quot;gifted&quot; ones), and finally that large group in the middle who got neglected.

I understand that there are many problems with streaming.  But trying to cater for students with vastly different levels of ability in a particular area in the one classroom, without compromising the education of some of those students, is going to be very  hard to achieve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan, I&#8217;d like to take up one point you briefly raise:</p>
<blockquote><p>Another interesting idea in the national curriculum is the move away from different classes for students with different rates of development. Whilst clearly we could all support the aim of giving all students an equal quality of education, there is no doubt there will be increased burden on teachers who are trying to accommodate both kids who struggle with the basics and those who are advanced learners. </p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m unconvinced of the idea that putting &#8220;students with different rates of development&#8221; is necessarily the best, or even a good, way to achieve &#8220;giving all students an equal quality of education&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll come at this from two perspectives.  The first was as a schoolkid myself, which pretty much coincided with the Cain-Kirner government in Victoria.  Joan Kirner was, if I recall correctly, Education Minister before she became Premier.  In any case, maybe it&#8217;s entirely coincidental that Kirner, somebody who went to University High and went to university at 16, presided over an era of &#8220;mixed ability classes&#8221; where any kind of streaming was effectively squashed.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it served anyone well &#8211; the more academically-gifted students who were bored witless and in some cases spent a fair bit of their time as <em>de facto</em> assistant teachers, the ones who struggled who were also bored and frustrated (though I recall there being much more done for that group than the &#8220;gifted&#8221; ones), and finally that large group in the middle who got neglected.</p>
<p>I understand that there are many problems with streaming.  But trying to cater for students with vastly different levels of ability in a particular area in the one classroom, without compromising the education of some of those students, is going to be very  hard to achieve.</p>
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		<title>By: Fran Barlow</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114803</link>
		<dc:creator>Fran Barlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114803</guid>
		<description>Speaking as a high school teacher, the fasciantion with &quot;national curriculum&quot; always amuses me. I&#039;m not saying that there isn&#039;t adavantage to be had in having a more pervasive and portable pedagogical core across the country, but compared with the many other issues bearing upon service quality in education, it is failry secondary -- no pun intended.

I&#039;m off to volunteer in Bradfield for Ms Gemell today, but I&#039;ll probably post some observations of my own on this later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as a high school teacher, the fasciantion with &#8220;national curriculum&#8221; always amuses me. I&#8217;m not saying that there isn&#8217;t adavantage to be had in having a more pervasive and portable pedagogical core across the country, but compared with the many other issues bearing upon service quality in education, it is failry secondary &#8212; no pun intended.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m off to volunteer in Bradfield for Ms Gemell today, but I&#8217;ll probably post some observations of my own on this later.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Zivcec</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114802</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Zivcec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114802</guid>
		<description>Hi all, Fantastic to see the discusson which has been far broader than the artice I wrote. Not sure of interest, but perhaps there is room for another artlice covering some of the other aspects of the Education Revolution/ Scorecard- (rather than a really long reply).What I would like to focus on 2 areas
1) National Testing
2) Teacher Qualification

I&#039;m for national testing- but I think we have to re-design the testing so that it truly reflects the outcomes we are trying to achieve. Literacy and Maths skills - yes, but also let&#039;s test how well our students are learning to anayse, their understanding of scientific ideas, their understanding of the world around them.

There is no doubt national testing has an impact. It has the impact of focusing the teaching toward what is being tested. So if you are testing only 2 areas, it is highly likely these areas will be preferentially treated - especially if linked to a league table which is percieved to have consequences for schools reputation.

When testing ( and therefore Schools) are focused on numeracy &amp; literacy, time for measured debate and self-directed activities (Say in Science or History) which are required to foster critical thinking skills could be constrained.
2 Factors which help to overcome this is the un-cluttering of the curriculum and provisions for greater teacher control.

On the issue of Teacher qualification, many teachers these days arrive at teaching like I have- as a second career/after a general Undergrad Degree. They do a Grad Dip Education( 1 year) which provides both content on the principles of learning and education, and content related to teaching their chosen specialist areas.
Personally, before I started my Grad Dip, I put far too much emphasis on content knowledge. Now, I truly understand that education is a complex field in itself, and has a great body of evidence based research about how students learn, and how educational organisations function.

I believe that the current qualification system is not the key issue - but that iprovements could be made in providing ongoing support, training  and resources to teachers. For example- I know teachers that have fabulous deep content knowledge and great teaching skills, but no idea when it comes to technology- so they can&#039;t &quot;switch on&quot; to the things that get today&#039;s generation of kids engaged and it seems not enough time is spent helping them get from fear to competence... not to mention that for most schools IT resources are not any where near what they need to be to keep up with the way we use technology in our everyday world.

I hope we get the chance to discuss some of the other important areas of the Education Revolution soon ( if there is the will and the interest)


PS Craig, enlighten me - I love a little irony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all, Fantastic to see the discusson which has been far broader than the artice I wrote. Not sure of interest, but perhaps there is room for another artlice covering some of the other aspects of the Education Revolution/ Scorecard- (rather than a really long reply).What I would like to focus on 2 areas<br />
1) National Testing<br />
2) Teacher Qualification</p>
<p>I&#8217;m for national testing- but I think we have to re-design the testing so that it truly reflects the outcomes we are trying to achieve. Literacy and Maths skills &#8211; yes, but also let&#8217;s test how well our students are learning to anayse, their understanding of scientific ideas, their understanding of the world around them.</p>
<p>There is no doubt national testing has an impact. It has the impact of focusing the teaching toward what is being tested. So if you are testing only 2 areas, it is highly likely these areas will be preferentially treated &#8211; especially if linked to a league table which is percieved to have consequences for schools reputation.</p>
<p>When testing ( and therefore Schools) are focused on numeracy &amp; literacy, time for measured debate and self-directed activities (Say in Science or History) which are required to foster critical thinking skills could be constrained.<br />
2 Factors which help to overcome this is the un-cluttering of the curriculum and provisions for greater teacher control.</p>
<p>On the issue of Teacher qualification, many teachers these days arrive at teaching like I have- as a second career/after a general Undergrad Degree. They do a Grad Dip Education( 1 year) which provides both content on the principles of learning and education, and content related to teaching their chosen specialist areas.<br />
Personally, before I started my Grad Dip, I put far too much emphasis on content knowledge. Now, I truly understand that education is a complex field in itself, and has a great body of evidence based research about how students learn, and how educational organisations function.</p>
<p>I believe that the current qualification system is not the key issue &#8211; but that iprovements could be made in providing ongoing support, training  and resources to teachers. For example- I know teachers that have fabulous deep content knowledge and great teaching skills, but no idea when it comes to technology- so they can&#8217;t &#8220;switch on&#8221; to the things that get today&#8217;s generation of kids engaged and it seems not enough time is spent helping them get from fear to competence&#8230; not to mention that for most schools IT resources are not any where near what they need to be to keep up with the way we use technology in our everyday world.</p>
<p>I hope we get the chance to discuss some of the other important areas of the Education Revolution soon ( if there is the will and the interest)</p>
<p>PS Craig, enlighten me &#8211; I love a little irony.</p>
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		<title>By: j_p_z</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114801</link>
		<dc:creator>j_p_z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114801</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not invoking parameters or endorsing any particular policy, I was just curious about what was meant in the comment.  In general I think degrees in an actual area of expertise are preferable to Ed. School/Teachers College degrees, which (in the US at least) can be fairly comical, although perhaps you have a different experience with them there.  As for the rest, it ain&#039;t none of my business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not invoking parameters or endorsing any particular policy, I was just curious about what was meant in the comment.  In general I think degrees in an actual area of expertise are preferable to Ed. School/Teachers College degrees, which (in the US at least) can be fairly comical, although perhaps you have a different experience with them there.  As for the rest, it ain&#8217;t none of my business.</p>
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		<title>By: Mercurius</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114800</link>
		<dc:creator>Mercurius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114800</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A master’s in the subject being taught, or a master’s from a School of Education?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

...&quot;or equivalent&quot;...I think, is the phrase you&#039;re looking for there..?

In crude terms, an &lt;em&gt;American&lt;/em&gt; Masters, or an &lt;em&gt;Australian/British&lt;/em&gt; Master&#039;s, Japerz?

Serious question, &#039;cos we all know that degrees ain&#039;t degrees...I&#039;ve seen plenty of people in Australia with 4-year undergraduate degrees that look to me equivalent or even moreso than a &#039;Masters&#039; from many U.S. State universities...not being parochial, just sayin&#039; that these degrees aren&#039;t so neatly internationalised as many like to believe.

BTW, what other profession requires a Master&#039;s degree for entry-level positions? And how&#039;s their starting salaries compare?

Lemme put it this way: if you&#039;re serious about the Master&#039;s idea, you&#039;re effectively arguing for:

a) No teachers under (about) age 25 in any high school
b) Teachers have had about 20 years of institutionalised, formalised education before they then go back into an institutionalised, formalised environment to institutionalise and formalise the next generation...
c) Paying teachers like Masters-qualified professionals, or saying it&#039;s OK to pay teachers far less for an equivalent qualification than accounting, law and other professional and semi-professional settings.
d) Massive shortages in most if not all teaching subjects, mass-cancellation of many subjects, or otherwise mass-rorting and short-cutting of the system when schools find there aren&#039;t enough Masters-qualified staff to go around.

Just checkin&#039; - those are some of the general parameters you&#039;re invoking, yes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A master’s in the subject being taught, or a master’s from a School of Education?</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;&#8221;or equivalent&#8221;&#8230;I think, is the phrase you&#8217;re looking for there..?</p>
<p>In crude terms, an <em>American</em> Masters, or an <em>Australian/British</em> Master&#8217;s, Japerz?</p>
<p>Serious question, &#8216;cos we all know that degrees ain&#8217;t degrees&#8230;I&#8217;ve seen plenty of people in Australia with 4-year undergraduate degrees that look to me equivalent or even moreso than a &#8216;Masters&#8217; from many U.S. State universities&#8230;not being parochial, just sayin&#8217; that these degrees aren&#8217;t so neatly internationalised as many like to believe.</p>
<p>BTW, what other profession requires a Master&#8217;s degree for entry-level positions? And how&#8217;s their starting salaries compare?</p>
<p>Lemme put it this way: if you&#8217;re serious about the Master&#8217;s idea, you&#8217;re effectively arguing for:</p>
<p>a) No teachers under (about) age 25 in any high school<br />
b) Teachers have had about 20 years of institutionalised, formalised education before they then go back into an institutionalised, formalised environment to institutionalise and formalise the next generation&#8230;<br />
c) Paying teachers like Masters-qualified professionals, or saying it&#8217;s OK to pay teachers far less for an equivalent qualification than accounting, law and other professional and semi-professional settings.<br />
d) Massive shortages in most if not all teaching subjects, mass-cancellation of many subjects, or otherwise mass-rorting and short-cutting of the system when schools find there aren&#8217;t enough Masters-qualified staff to go around.</p>
<p>Just checkin&#8217; &#8211; those are some of the general parameters you&#8217;re invoking, yes?</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114799</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114799</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If you are interested in fostering a generation of kids who have the life skills to be the next leaders, academics and good citizens, then this type of testing is not going to cut it. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Honestly, kids are not going to be able to be leaders if they don&#039;t know the core areas of mathematics and language - which these tests appear to me to be designed to assess across whole school systems. I hope that kids do learn the basics - many kids don&#039;t currently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If you are interested in fostering a generation of kids who have the life skills to be the next leaders, academics and good citizens, then this type of testing is not going to cut it. </p></blockquote>
<p>Honestly, kids are not going to be able to be leaders if they don&#039;t know the core areas of mathematics and language &#8211; which these tests appear to me to be designed to assess across whole school systems. I hope that kids do learn the basics &#8211; many kids don&#039;t currently.</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2009/12/04/what%e2%80%99s-going-on-with-the-national-curriculum/#comment-114798</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=11361#comment-114798</guid>
		<description>I write as someone who helped contribute to the numeracy questions in the first NAPLAN when employeed at ACER. My view of NAPLAN came from that (at a distance) involvement.

In relation to the numeracy part of NAPLAN, I&#039;m not sure how teachers would be incentivised to teach &quot;to the test&quot;, as the subject areas of the test questions were pretty core material. I didn&#039;t see anything which might be considered unusual. There were &quot;calculator&quot; and &quot;non-calculator&quot; elements to the test for later years (yr 9 and maybe yr 7?) but that&#039;s hardly a stretch if it isn&#039;t already part of the curriculum.

Most importantly, different state curriculums may have taught different things in different years, and this may change. I don&#039;t see why this should necessarily be a negative thing.

Personally, I like the idea of schools being able to choose whatever curriculum they wish subject to certain minimum standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I write as someone who helped contribute to the numeracy questions in the first NAPLAN when employeed at ACER. My view of NAPLAN came from that (at a distance) involvement.</p>
<p>In relation to the numeracy part of NAPLAN, I&#8217;m not sure how teachers would be incentivised to teach &#8220;to the test&#8221;, as the subject areas of the test questions were pretty core material. I didn&#8217;t see anything which might be considered unusual. There were &#8220;calculator&#8221; and &#8220;non-calculator&#8221; elements to the test for later years (yr 9 and maybe yr 7?) but that&#8217;s hardly a stretch if it isn&#8217;t already part of the curriculum.</p>
<p>Most importantly, different state curriculums may have taught different things in different years, and this may change. I don&#8217;t see why this should necessarily be a negative thing.</p>
<p>Personally, I like the idea of schools being able to choose whatever curriculum they wish subject to certain minimum standards.</p>
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