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	<title>Comments on: What does a conservative leader of the Liberal party look like?</title>
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	<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/</link>
	<description>Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew E</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95206</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95206</guid>
		<description>Jarrah: so what? The late &#039;70s was a long time ago, and it is fair to ask to what use a man in his fifties has put such a qualification.

In the 1980s he was not part of the debates on deregulation/privatisation etc, in the way that Howard, Costello, Reith and even poor old Ian McLachlan were. Say what you like about their positions in those debates, but give them credit for going all out and being part of it, and risking having their views changed by changing circumstances.

He was a senior advisor to John Hewson. He witnessed &lt;i&gt;Fightback!&lt;/i&gt; up close. &lt;a href=&quot;http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2010/02/carbon-fightback-kevin-rudd-failed-to.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;As I&#039;ve said elsewhere&lt;/a&gt; he clearly learned nothing from the experience.

He was a minister throughout the whole term of the Howard government. In none of the economic debates - Asian financial crisis, GST - in none of them did he do anything but passively trot out the party line when asked by a journalist.

Read &lt;i&gt;Battlelines&lt;/i&gt; - I&#039;ve seen more in-depth economic thinking in pub toilet graffiti, but maybe that says more about the pubs I used to drink at.

Abbott&#039;s economic critique does not extend beyond:
- Debt; and
- Tax tax tax; and
- Nothing. There is no third thing.

Any fool can waddle around a supermarket with a tray of lamb chops.

Consider that Paul Keating left school at 14 and had a far more sophisticated grasp of economics that Abbott has shown to date. Consider that the same can be said for Wayne Swan, and weep for the facts that a) he isn&#039;t a Sydney Uni graduate either and b) he&#039;s a Queenslander. Less grasp of economics than a Queenslander!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarrah: so what? The late &#8217;70s was a long time ago, and it is fair to ask to what use a man in his fifties has put such a qualification.</p>
<p>In the 1980s he was not part of the debates on deregulation/privatisation etc, in the way that Howard, Costello, Reith and even poor old Ian McLachlan were. Say what you like about their positions in those debates, but give them credit for going all out and being part of it, and risking having their views changed by changing circumstances.</p>
<p>He was a senior advisor to John Hewson. He witnessed <i>Fightback!</i> up close. <a href="http://andrewelder.blogspot.com/2010/02/carbon-fightback-kevin-rudd-failed-to.html" rel="nofollow">As I&#8217;ve said elsewhere</a> he clearly learned nothing from the experience.</p>
<p>He was a minister throughout the whole term of the Howard government. In none of the economic debates &#8211; Asian financial crisis, GST &#8211; in none of them did he do anything but passively trot out the party line when asked by a journalist.</p>
<p>Read <i>Battlelines</i> &#8211; I&#8217;ve seen more in-depth economic thinking in pub toilet graffiti, but maybe that says more about the pubs I used to drink at.</p>
<p>Abbott&#8217;s economic critique does not extend beyond:<br />
- Debt; and<br />
- Tax tax tax; and<br />
- Nothing. There is no third thing.</p>
<p>Any fool can waddle around a supermarket with a tray of lamb chops.</p>
<p>Consider that Paul Keating left school at 14 and had a far more sophisticated grasp of economics that Abbott has shown to date. Consider that the same can be said for Wayne Swan, and weep for the facts that a) he isn&#8217;t a Sydney Uni graduate either and b) he&#8217;s a Queenslander. Less grasp of economics than a Queenslander!</p>
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		<title>By: Leinad</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95205</link>
		<dc:creator>Leinad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95205</guid>
		<description>/me still can&#039;t stop cringing at &#039;Shadow Finance Minister Barnaby Joyce&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>/me still can&#8217;t stop cringing at &#8216;Shadow Finance Minister Barnaby Joyce&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95204</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95204</guid>
		<description>Yeah, John, but then that only really matters for Kevin (aside from his ego, and perhaps his power within the government) if it has any impact on the party vote. We&#039;ve seen over the last few days Labor going into full on election mode, so that, as well as Abbott&#039;s climate change stuff will be interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, John, but then that only really matters for Kevin (aside from his ego, and perhaps his power within the government) if it has any impact on the party vote. We&#8217;ve seen over the last few days Labor going into full on election mode, so that, as well as Abbott&#8217;s climate change stuff will be interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: John D</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95203</link>
		<dc:creator>John D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95203</guid>
		<description>Quite right Mark. Given that the only party movement was 3% &quot;other&quot; to the coalition it is hard to believe that the TPP is right even allowing for confidence limits.  However, Kevin&#039;s approval rating has been dropping for some time so Labor would be wise to stop and think about what it is doing.
Will also be interesting to see what effect the Claytons direct action plan has on the polls.  At least it leaves Labor the option of switching to  a &quot;real direct action plan&quot; if they still believe the public really wants climate action and are finally willing to admit privately that CPRS has become a political liability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite right Mark. Given that the only party movement was 3% &#8220;other&#8221; to the coalition it is hard to believe that the TPP is right even allowing for confidence limits.  However, Kevin&#8217;s approval rating has been dropping for some time so Labor would be wise to stop and think about what it is doing.<br />
Will also be interesting to see what effect the Claytons direct action plan has on the polls.  At least it leaves Labor the option of switching to  a &#8220;real direct action plan&#8221; if they still believe the public really wants climate action and are finally willing to admit privately that CPRS has become a political liability.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95202</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95202</guid>
		<description>And the latest Essential Research poll has Labor ahead 56-44 on the 2PP, John D, just as the last one did. Discussion here:

http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/01/newspoll-labor-52-58-watch-the-political-narrative-shift/

We should always be too wary of reading too much into one poll - and the last Newspoll which had the 2PP 52-48 saw a quick bounce back to 55-45 in the subsequent one.

Having said all that, I have no doubt that you&#039;re right in one sense - the bipartisan suite of &#039;economic reform&#039; measures, such as privatisation, have never been popular with voters. There&#039;s very little support among the electorate, as opposed to policy and political elites, for liberal economics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the latest Essential Research poll has Labor ahead 56-44 on the 2PP, John D, just as the last one did. Discussion here:</p>
<p><a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/01/newspoll-labor-52-58-watch-the-political-narrative-shift/" rel="nofollow">http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/01/newspoll-labor-52-58-watch-the-political-narrative-shift/</a></p>
<p>We should always be too wary of reading too much into one poll &#8211; and the last Newspoll which had the 2PP 52-48 saw a quick bounce back to 55-45 in the subsequent one.</p>
<p>Having said all that, I have no doubt that you&#8217;re right in one sense &#8211; the bipartisan suite of &#8216;economic reform&#8217; measures, such as privatisation, have never been popular with voters. There&#8217;s very little support among the electorate, as opposed to policy and political elites, for liberal economics.</p>
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		<title>By: John D</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95201</link>
		<dc:creator>John D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95201</guid>
		<description>Hmmm: The latest &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/rudd-warns-poll-defeat-a-possibility-after-shock-newspoll-result/story-e6frgczf-1225825766526&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Newspoll&lt;/a&gt; had the coalition primary vote above Labor for the first time in yonks and TPP down to 52/48 in Labor&#039;s favour.  So it is worth asking what Tony is actually doing right and Kevin doing wrong.
I don&#039;t think too many voters are going to be worried that Tony is less of a market tragic than Kevin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm: The latest <a href="http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/rudd-warns-poll-defeat-a-possibility-after-shock-newspoll-result/story-e6frgczf-1225825766526" rel="nofollow">Newspoll</a> had the coalition primary vote above Labor for the first time in yonks and TPP down to 52/48 in Labor&#8217;s favour.  So it is worth asking what Tony is actually doing right and Kevin doing wrong.<br />
I don&#8217;t think too many voters are going to be worried that Tony is less of a market tragic than Kevin.</p>
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		<title>By: CMMC</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95200</link>
		<dc:creator>CMMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95200</guid>
		<description>We will probably find out in a few months when Abbott is dumped.

Big Joe, Bronny Bishop,.... whoever. Newspoll will earestly reveal the same boilerplate figures about the new leader &quot;closing the gap&quot; as they did for Nelson, Turnbull and now the Mad Monk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We will probably find out in a few months when Abbott is dumped.</p>
<p>Big Joe, Bronny Bishop,&#8230;. whoever. Newspoll will earestly reveal the same boilerplate figures about the new leader &#8220;closing the gap&#8221; as they did for Nelson, Turnbull and now the Mad Monk.</p>
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		<title>By: SCPritch</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95199</link>
		<dc:creator>SCPritch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95199</guid>
		<description>Its pretend socialism. They are not seriously trying to solve a problem by spending this money. Tree planting and solar rooves isn&#039;t going to cut it, but there will be some good press releases out of it. Its about buying enough green PR (with taxpayers&#039; hard-earned) to win the election and stay in government, not about seriously addressing climate change.

The approach relies on the ease with which any green intiative gets quick and superficial positive press(a million solar rooves yay! I like the sun!) and also the difficulty of getting positive press for the CPRS because it is complex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its pretend socialism. They are not seriously trying to solve a problem by spending this money. Tree planting and solar rooves isn&#8217;t going to cut it, but there will be some good press releases out of it. Its about buying enough green PR (with taxpayers&#8217; hard-earned) to win the election and stay in government, not about seriously addressing climate change.</p>
<p>The approach relies on the ease with which any green intiative gets quick and superficial positive press(a million solar rooves yay! I like the sun!) and also the difficulty of getting positive press for the CPRS because it is complex.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia WA</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95198</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia WA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95198</guid>
		<description>&quot;Back to old fashioned paternalism,&quot; says Mark.

Daddy, I will have to kill you...........

Where&#039;s Casey?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Back to old fashioned paternalism,&#8221; says Mark.</p>
<p>Daddy, I will have to kill you&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Where&#8217;s Casey?</p>
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		<title>By: Nickws</title>
		<link>http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/02/what-does-a-conservative-leader-of-the-liberal-party-look-like/#comment-95197</link>
		<dc:creator>Nickws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12532#comment-95197</guid>
		<description>The Libs may, may, have returned to their nice-but-dim attitude towards economic matters, and we shouldn&#039;t be that upset if they have. The Menzian tradition isn&#039;t that bad a thing if you don&#039;t mind that it doesn&#039;t imbue the Coalition frontbench with the ability to do things about 21st century problems.

Okay, so the basic model Menzian tradition is pretty useless when it comes to the politics of the era of colour TV (I don&#039;t like using that idiot Kelly&#039;s &#039;post-Australian-Settlement&#039; meme to describe the country as it&#039;s been since We Realised Things Had Irrevocably Changed).

But I don&#039;t see nice-but-dimism being the issue we are confronted here when it comes to the Monk.

I reckon Abbott looks at everything through the lens of culture warfare, with a particular anti-Whitlamite mythos informing the way he looks at Australia, though I grant him he is very good at convincing people that this is an inherently Catholic trait he has and not just a cranky, navel gazing &#039;Oddrant&#039; posture---he&#039;s framed many of his opponents on the Left at places like this into &#039;I hate Captain (all) (Catholic(s)&#039;, or alternately, &#039;Yeah, he&#039;s telling the truth when he implies he&#039;s the second coming of Santamaria&#039;---the kulturkampf today has it&#039;s own modern logic people, don&#039;t let him fool you into thinking it&#039;s the same old same old.

(FWIW I think a fundievangelical Protestant like Eric Abetz could perform the same role if he&#039;d had the talents to get the top of the greasy poll in Liberal Oppositional politics, Papism is not really central to the New Reaction.)

Anyway, the problem with the anti-Whitlamite Mythos is that it ignores the fact that the Whitlamites were never the true radicals (not unless you&#039;re still upset by the demise of White Australia, and it was the Liberal members of Gough&#039;s generation who started all that), and that Hawke et al stood on the shoulders of that seventies reformism.

But recontextualising contemporary history is hard and boring when you already know all the answers, as Tony does, and it&#039;s not as if he&#039;s some wussy loser like that bad retired Liberal PM, the one who capitualated to the degenerate Femintern New Class* after he was given the keys by the valiant Sir John.

*Abbott openly called the ALP the Femintern New Class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Libs may, may, have returned to their nice-but-dim attitude towards economic matters, and we shouldn&#8217;t be that upset if they have. The Menzian tradition isn&#8217;t that bad a thing if you don&#8217;t mind that it doesn&#8217;t imbue the Coalition frontbench with the ability to do things about 21st century problems.</p>
<p>Okay, so the basic model Menzian tradition is pretty useless when it comes to the politics of the era of colour TV (I don&#8217;t like using that idiot Kelly&#8217;s &#8216;post-Australian-Settlement&#8217; meme to describe the country as it&#8217;s been since We Realised Things Had Irrevocably Changed).</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t see nice-but-dimism being the issue we are confronted here when it comes to the Monk.</p>
<p>I reckon Abbott looks at everything through the lens of culture warfare, with a particular anti-Whitlamite mythos informing the way he looks at Australia, though I grant him he is very good at convincing people that this is an inherently Catholic trait he has and not just a cranky, navel gazing &#8216;Oddrant&#8217; posture&#8212;he&#8217;s framed many of his opponents on the Left at places like this into &#8216;I hate Captain (all) (Catholic(s)&#8217;, or alternately, &#8216;Yeah, he&#8217;s telling the truth when he implies he&#8217;s the second coming of Santamaria&#8217;&#8212;the kulturkampf today has it&#8217;s own modern logic people, don&#8217;t let him fool you into thinking it&#8217;s the same old same old.</p>
<p>(FWIW I think a fundievangelical Protestant like Eric Abetz could perform the same role if he&#8217;d had the talents to get the top of the greasy poll in Liberal Oppositional politics, Papism is not really central to the New Reaction.)</p>
<p>Anyway, the problem with the anti-Whitlamite Mythos is that it ignores the fact that the Whitlamites were never the true radicals (not unless you&#8217;re still upset by the demise of White Australia, and it was the Liberal members of Gough&#8217;s generation who started all that), and that Hawke et al stood on the shoulders of that seventies reformism.</p>
<p>But recontextualising contemporary history is hard and boring when you already know all the answers, as Tony does, and it&#8217;s not as if he&#8217;s some wussy loser like that bad retired Liberal PM, the one who capitualated to the degenerate Femintern New Class* after he was given the keys by the valiant Sir John.</p>
<p>*Abbott openly called the ALP the Femintern New Class.</p>
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