Comments on: If it weren't for the Union… http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/ Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:06:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: anthony nolan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98824 anthony nolan Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:42:12 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98824 As an old mate of mine once said to me: "you know your in the working class when, like every other bastard, you start thinking 'how the eff do I get out of this?'". In other words there is a significant difference between class as a sociological concept and the embodied experience of being a member of the working class. Union membership teaches class consciousness by locating the specificity of individual experience within a comprehensive framework of political understanding. It is no surprise that as union membership has declined the dialogue within the ALP has increased around the need to recreate the party along broader social (emphasis) democratic lines. Equally, therefore, it is no surprise that the party cocked up the supervision of the insulation roll out and four more workers are subsequently dead. I don't know a single labourer or tradie who doesn't have a hatfull of stories about the armies of deadshit cowboy fly-by-nighters who infest the economy these days like flies round a fresh turd on a summer day. Only the staffers in Garrett's office apparently had no idea. As an old mate of mine once said to me: “you know your in the working class when, like every other bastard, you start thinking ‘how the eff do I get out of this?’”. In other words there is a significant difference between class as a sociological concept and the embodied experience of being a member of the working class. Union membership teaches class consciousness by locating the specificity of individual experience within a comprehensive framework of political understanding. It is no surprise that as union membership has declined the dialogue within the ALP has increased around the need to recreate the party along broader social (emphasis) democratic lines. Equally, therefore, it is no surprise that the party cocked up the supervision of the insulation roll out and four more workers are subsequently dead. I don’t know a single labourer or tradie who doesn’t have a hatfull of stories about the armies of deadshit cowboy fly-by-nighters who infest the economy these days like flies round a fresh turd on a summer day. Only the staffers in Garrett’s office apparently had no idea.

]]> By: Darryl Rosin http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98823 Darryl Rosin Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:18:46 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98823 I'll go out on a limb and suggest that no one here is surprised that the ALP gets support from voters who are not left-of-centre. d I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that no one here is surprised that the ALP gets support from voters who are not left-of-centre.

d

]]> By: Mercurius http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98822 Mercurius Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:00:43 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98822 Sounds about right to me, Eric. For @71-73, when the primary share of ALP vote is now routinely double the percentage of unionised members of the workforce, and it has been that way for about 25 years now, it really shouldn't surprise you that there is significant electoral support for Labor, Green and left-leaning parties (and blogs!) that is entirely unaffiliated with Unions. I'm puzzled that <em>you're</em> so puzzled! :D Sounds about right to me, Eric.

For @71-73, when the primary share of ALP vote is now routinely double the percentage of unionised members of the workforce, and it has been that way for about 25 years now, it really shouldn’t surprise you that there is significant electoral support for Labor, Green and left-leaning parties (and blogs!) that is entirely unaffiliated with Unions. I’m puzzled that you’re so puzzled! :D

]]> By: Eric Sykes http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98821 Eric Sykes Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:08:41 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98821 would Union involvement have saved the scheme, saved lives merc…well yes, of course it would have, sorry but that seems so obvious, having had extended patience for, and interest in, Labour Unions. our patience has been tested time and time again...but we have remained members, interested and involved...and our interest has revealed the window on its inexorable shift away from a critical labour movement towards a neo conservative christian social democracy...while accepting that deaths are not the bald christian pseudo punk-rock stars fault...and accepting the circumstances that have allowed the scheme to fail are complex...most of that complexity could have to do with kicking the union rep out of the room, or not listening to her for fear of being accused of being "held to ransom", or plain and simply attacking her as old fashioned and not in tune with the "new" labour....imho. would Union involvement have saved the scheme, saved lives

merc…well yes, of course it would have, sorry but that seems so obvious, having had extended patience for, and interest in, Labour Unions.

our patience has been tested time and time again…but we have remained members, interested and involved…and our interest has revealed the window on its inexorable shift away from a critical labour movement towards a neo conservative christian social democracy…while accepting that deaths are not the bald christian pseudo punk-rock stars fault…and accepting the circumstances that have allowed the scheme to fail are complex…most of that complexity could have to do with kicking the union rep out of the room, or not listening to her for fear of being accused of being “held to ransom”, or plain and simply attacking her as old fashioned and not in tune with the “new” labour….imho.

]]> By: Fine http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98820 Fine Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:55:08 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98820 Mercurius, I don't understand why you're snarky about this issue either. I'm sure you have your reasons. But, the top of your post did sound very strange. You didn't write that you haven't been in a situation where you could or needed to join a union, but that you didn't have much time or patience for them, which is completely different. It's understandable that some people around here are scratching their heads. Mercurius, I don’t understand why you’re snarky about this issue either. I’m sure you have your reasons. But, the top of your post did sound very strange. You didn’t write that you haven’t been in a situation where you could or needed to join a union, but that you didn’t have much time or patience for them, which is completely different.

It’s understandable that some people around here are scratching their heads.

]]> By: Darryl Rosin http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98819 Darryl Rosin Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:50:17 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98819 Jeepers! You're snarky and defensive about this. Sure, my opinions are my problems, just as yours are your problem. Good luck with them, I hope they're working out for you. d Jeepers! You’re snarky and defensive about this. Sure, my opinions are my problems, just as yours are your problem. Good luck with them, I hope they’re working out for you.

d

]]> By: sg http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98818 sg Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:30:39 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98818 and presumably the overton window was moved by those who have little time or patience for unions. and presumably the overton window was moved by those who have little time or patience for unions.

]]> By: Mercurius http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98817 Mercurius Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:08:18 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98817 <blockquote>Being a some-what old fashioned type, I struggle to reconcile how one can simultaneously be ‘left of centre’ and ‘impatient with, and uninterested in Unions’. </blockquote> Well, with respect, that's your problem, not mine. Anyway, as I thought I made clear in the post, I'm surprised that the media fury about the insulation scheme has focused on every question except the one question that might have made a difference - would Union involvement have saved the scheme, saved lives, and saved the ALP from getting egg all over their collective faces? The fact that this question isn't even raised tells you where the Overton Window has moved on issues like this.

Being a some-what old fashioned type, I struggle to reconcile how one can simultaneously be ‘left of centre’ and ‘impatient with, and uninterested in Unions’.

Well, with respect, that’s your problem, not mine.

Anyway, as I thought I made clear in the post, I’m surprised that the media fury about the insulation scheme has focused on every question except the one question that might have made a difference – would Union involvement have saved the scheme, saved lives, and saved the ALP from getting egg all over their collective faces? The fact that this question isn’t even raised tells you where the Overton Window has moved on issues like this.

]]> By: anthony nolan http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98816 anthony nolan Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:10:08 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98816 Mercurius: have I got a job for you! Time to revive the OBU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Big_Union_%28concept%29#Australia.27s_One_Big_Union Sign me up bro. Mercurius: have I got a job for you! Time to revive the OBU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Big_Union_%28concept%29#Australia.27s_One_Big_Union

Sign me up bro.

]]> By: John Ward http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/02/20/if-it-werent-for-the-union/#comment-98815 John Ward Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:56:55 +0000 http://larvatusprodeo.net/?p=12818#comment-98815 Tony Abbott was Minister for Health in 2005 when 1,790 people died at work for the year and 39,510 people were fully incapacitated on his watch. He now has the gall to use the recent tragedies of 4 deaths at work for his political purposes. This man has no shame. If we suffered 34 killed in Afghanistan and 780 fully incapacitated each week, it would be a national tragedy. The dollar cost to Australia of 2005 workplace losses was $Billion 57.5. Abbott is a dissembler. John Ward Gordon Tasmania 7510 62921211 Tony Abbott was Minister for Health in 2005 when 1,790 people died at work for the year and 39,510 people were fully incapacitated on his watch. He now has the gall to use the recent tragedies of 4 deaths at work for his political purposes.
This man has no shame.

If we suffered 34 killed in Afghanistan and 780 fully incapacitated each week, it would be a national tragedy.
The dollar cost to Australia of 2005 workplace losses was $Billion 57.5.

Abbott is a dissembler.
John Ward
Gordon
Tasmania
7510
62921211

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