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9 responses to “CPD post: Armstrong asks who is ‘fair dinkum’ on climate policy”

  1. Robert Merkel

    The only party in this election with any credibility on climate, the Greens have a plan for Australia to transition to 100 per cent renewable energy, and thanks to a new report released by Melbourne University’s Energy Institute, we know this is not only possible that but it can be achieved in a short time frame.

    That report is um…very optimistic.

    People interested in it may want to have a look at this long comments thread on that report.

    Amongst the key objections:

    1) Its cost estimates for solar towers – a technology that hasn’t been deployed yet – are very, very optimistic.
    2) It makes, um, generous assumptions about the minimum generation out of a wind power network.
    3) Their wind cost assumptions are based on newer, larger turbines which probably won’t be available until 2015, and whose costs and operational performance remain to be demonstrated.
    4) They haven’t done an analysis of the chances of not meeting demand.
    5) They’re assuming biomass backup, which is problematic for a whole host of reasons (hint: organic “waste” ain’t necessarily so, and it’s very difficult to move around).
    6) Their timelines for deploying plants ignore the realities of organizing finance, getting planning and environmental approvals, etc. etc. etc. The timelines for wind farms have been much longer than they assume into the future.

  2. Labor Outsider

    I’m really struggling to see why LP is giving such prominence to the CPD in these policy threads. Moving to 100% renewables within the timeframe the Greens are talking about at a cost that more than 10% of Australians would accept is a fantasy. No credible policymaker in this area thinks the assumptions underlying the Energy Institute report are credible.

    Criticism of the mainstream parties on climate change is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. But what you can’t do, or at least it is pointless to do, is criticise them for not implementing policies that are impossible to achieve politically.

    Anybody can come up with ideal policy solutions.

    But the real skill is in developing policies that move in the direction of your ideals along a sustainable political path.

  3. tigtog

    I’m really struggling to see why LP is giving such prominence to the CPD in these policy threads.

    LO, as anyone who has read Mark’s profile knows, he is a fellow of the CPD.

  4. Mark Bahnisch

    @2 and 3 – That’s right, LO, and hopefully it also enables feedback and constructive criticism for the CPD’s writers.

  5. Labor Outsider

    Sorry, last time I checked Mark’s bio (which was a while ago) I didn’t notice the CPD affiliation.

    So, a constructive criticism for their writers. More empirics and less idealism. What i want to see from progressives is not just a wish list of policies and a whinge about how the majors are ignoring important progressive issues. I want to see them confront, head-on, the actual political landscape in Australia and develop concrete ideas about how to push policy in a more progressive direction that don’t involve Pauline conversions of the average voter.

  6. Darryl Rosin

    ” No credible policymaker in this area thinks the assumptions underlying the Energy Institute report are credible.”

    Two things:

    1. I don;t understand who the “Energy Institute” at the University of Melbourne are. Their webpage (http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/institute-staff/) indicates two staff, including one ‘public relations and communications’ expert. The Stationary Energy report was produced by “Beyond Zero Emissions” and at a quick glance I can’t tell how they’re connected to the Energy Institute.

    2. The goals described by the Beyond Zero people are, in some ways, not unlike JFK’s 1961 goal of ‘landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth’. We need an outrageous goal on that scale and we need to muster our national effort in support of that goal. Were there any ‘credible policymakers’ in 1961 who thought that was achievable in 10 years? I don’t think science fiction authors thought that was a credible goal in 1961. Can we do move to zero emissions is a few years? I don’t know, but I can surely put my hand on my heart and say that THE ONLY WAY WE WILL DO IT IS IF WE TRY TO DO IT!

    LO, I’ve a lot of respect for you, based on your contributions here at LP, but if we constrain all our national priorities to ‘what credible policymakers believe is achievable’ then we’re not going to get to where we need to be in the medium term. Incremental, achievable and credible goals are sufficient (and necessary) for many of our challenges and problems we are facing, but Climate Change requires a comprehensive re-architecting of our society, which any credible policymaker would have to dismiss as ‘unrealistic’.

    I often ‘joke’ that I gave up the luxury of pessimism when my children we born, and it’s kind of true. When I was younger, I would sit back and think ‘we’re fscked, there’s no way we’re going to be able to fix this in time’ and I took cold comfort in the fact [sic] I would not be bringing children into this future. Now, decades later, I have children and a burning incentive to fight for the future. The science tells us that it is overwhelmingly likely that our goals must be ambitious, on the scale that the moon landing were ambitious. The problems are diabolically complicated because it’s not just an engineering problem that can be solved in large hangers with numerous men with slide rules, it’s also a human behaviour problem. I don;t have the solutions, and neither do Beyond Zero or the Energy institute or whoever. But until we the face facts that these problems are simply beyond the scope of normal government policies, we are not going to get anywhere.

    d

  7. Labor Outsider

    Daryl, I see your point and I respect where you are coming from.

    I guess my beef at the moment, and often with the left generally, is that it is all dreaming and very little thought about how we can get there through existing political institutions. Those that think climate change is a big deal and are prepared to go as far as proposed in the OP are effectively having conversations with themselves. You see it on LP threads all the time. Endless discussions of how we can drastically reduce emissions cheaply (almost always underpinned by very optimistic assumptions) with barely a thought given to how the average voter might be persuaded to agree with the goal and in particular be prepared to absorb the short-term costs that go along with it. Unfortunately, the goal is not self-evident to many of the people that actually matter for achieving the necessary change in a democracy.

    In the end, the moon goal is a bad analogy with the 100% renewable goal. Nobody thought they were going to lose their jobs because the government were trying to put a man on the moon. It could never have been attacked as a great big tax on everything. Americans were free to dream without having to worry about the consequences. And to boot it also dovetailed with the anti-communist political narrative of the time. It was politically costless.

    The 100% renewable goal is far more difficult because it is far more contested and will ultimately be far more redistributive. Collective action on climate change is an acute political problem and I want to see the left and the green movement engaged with that challenge.

    You may be right in that we need a re-architecture of society, though I myself doubt that meeting the challenge need be quite that drastic. But if you really believe that, you need to start giving some serious attention to how to bring about that change within a body politic that currently doesn’t see things in the same way you do.

  8. Debbieanne

    Julia and her team want to ‘move forward’ but to where, and tones and his guys want to go back to some golden era that never existed. Nobody seems to want to tackle real issues, things that matter. Power is now the means and the end. I hope that the greens get the balance of this ‘power’ and that will mean something, but even though I too have children, I am extremely pessimistic.

  9. SueZ

    I love the man on the moon analogy, and as with any analogy you can look for the spots it doesn’t fit, or see the larger picture where it does. Leadership is about vision… it is about knowing that whilst you may not have all the answers, if you can engage people in heading collectively towards something, things you never imagined possible will eventuate.

    If not now, when? There is a compelling need to address climate change, and no historic precident to fall back on. It’s time to be radical, ambitious… transformational.
    This is the time when the “incremental” tactics and strategies of the usual policy makers just aren’t going to cut it. And as for practical… google “transition towns”… peope who are transforming their own local environments because inflexible policy makers are incapable of keeping up with the pace of change required of this challenge.
    What are they doing ? Practical stuff…all of it… no pie in the sky but some amazing results born of an ideal. Leadership from below… pushing the “policy makers” when their policies get in the way of what makes sense.

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