Originally published at The Drumroll.
I made some observations about Kevin Rudd’s return to the campaign foray in Crikey today, and in particular its implications in Queensland, but I wanted to add four points on today’s developments.
(a) We may be heading for a twist in the narrative. It rumbled on today, but any “distraction” from Kevin Rudd’s re-entry into the fray was a net positive for Labor;
(b) We can see that from the fact that Rudd’s appearance this afternoon was obviously co-ordinated with the Labor campaign, to get him on the nightly tv news (as opposed to a few audio grabs from last night’s interview with Phillip Adams). On ABC News 24, campaign spokesperson Chris Bowen was quick to welcome the move, and Julia Gillard echoed this in Townsville – “Labor people with Labor values coming together”. It’s heal the wounds time, and the ALP campaign wants this event front and centre to shift the focus back onto Tony Abbott, whose health announcement was what was ‘overshadowed’ today;
(c) Kevin Rudd emphasised his work in the construction of the National Health and Hospitals Network, and his decision making in economic policy in the face of the GFC. He came up with a ‘cut through’ line comparing Australia’s performance with that of other developed nations – “where would you rather be?”. His return to the campaign enables the ALP to recover the benefits of incumbency, and to defend its record in government more forcefully, thus bolstering the case for the ALP as economic managers. That may be worth the point or two in the polls Labor needs to turn around its position;
(d) As Kim Jameson commented at Larvatus Prodeo, voters might be more mature than the press gallery in accepting that Julia and Kevin will never be besties, but can work together to harness their very considerable talents for the good of the nation. No one expected that Bob Hawke or Paul Keating would be going to the races together, and we know poor old Peter Costello never made it to the Lodge for an intimate dinner with the Howards. But, until their respective political relationships turned poisonous, these tense pairings bolstered the political effectiveness of their governments. By already having lanced the boil of leadership rivalry, and by effecting a reconciliation, the ALP may have moved itself into this space.
It’s another twist in what has been anything but a boring campaign. Jonathan Green asks whether Kevin10 will prove to be a game changer. I suspect he is.
Kev is really smart, he has left his intervention until there is a perception that Julia will go down.
If they win she will owe him big time. Now lets see… a really plum UN post? That will do.
He really had no choice, if he stayed sulking he was going to get all the blame for the loss. Now he can come across as the saint who rose from his sick bed , cast aside the robes of despair and took on the glowing mantle of optimism and victory.
I would write more but i am vomiting all over the cat who sits beside the keyboard…gwdqoy3o6t Bloody kitten.
Huggy
I agree Huggybunny – this is a brilliant move on Rudd’s part. Apotheosis makes the best revenge
Great post, Mark. The next few days will be very interesting.
That should have been part of the Labor campaign from Day 1.
I agree with what Don Wigan said on the other Rudd-revived thread: Rudd may have alienated his parliamentary colleagues in various ways that compromised his leadership, but he’s a great campaigner, and they need him badly. I’m glad he’s so clearly on board.
Or maybe not, gregh. Maybe Kevin doesn’t want his legacy shat on by Abbott. That’s what he said the Philip Adams, and you know, I tend to believe him. Because I’d be pissed off too if I kept the GFC at bay only to be replaced by Mr. Debt Truck.
‘Kev is really smart, he has left his intervention until there is a perception that Julia will go down.’
If it were that certain why on earth did they replace him?
I think the biggest surprise in all this is how little effect Gillard’s takeover has had on Labor’s polling, it has taken it backwards. This despite the ‘novelty’ and unique opportunity for Australia to elect its first female PM. Even that seems to have limited effect.
Labor is in a decidedly worse position with Gillard than Rudd and is probably in a much worse position than Rudd would be now in his own campaign.
If we get Abbott the blame rests 100% on Gillard’s impatient shoulders.
As for Rudd’s effect in Qld, who can know? It can play both ways.
People there realise he is by far the better option as PM and so do a protest or revenge vote. Or they are enthused by him to vote Labor again.
In other states you would expect it to have a more positive effect.
However it is a risk, and if the net effect is negative the gamble would have not paid off.
I can agree to that as well DOSG – I think the two can coexist. The critical issue for Rudd is that as a past Prime Minister he is now a ‘statesman’, above the politics of personal power. Trustworthy, sage and benign.
Total victory
Look at TP squirm…
Maybe Kevin is a better performer when he’s not bogged down in the PM’s position?
If you can’t beat the MSM mindset, join the MSM mindset, eh Mark?
(It’s not as if I’m against this, btw, as having easily explicable ‘game changers’ is the best way to overcome the empty malevolence of the Coalition’s campaign. I’ll take ‘Kev is giving Julia his mojo’ over STOP THE BOATS any day of the week.)
I don’t know why so many people assume Rudd now wants to leave domestic politics. It’s a bit like expecting Howard to have quit and joined the ICC the first time Peacock knocked him off the leadership back in the 1980s (which would indeed have been a blessing for the nation).
After the utterly shambolic performance of the ALP in the last three weeks, I’d say Rudd has every prospect of remaining one of the most influential politicians in the country for a long time yet. A return to the leadership, while improbable, is not inconceivable … and that’s just my estimation. In his own mind it might be considerably more likely. And even if he never gets there, he may well find the role of senior statesman most rewarding.
I think both major parties are abysmal!!!! I am sick of party politics. And, we do not vote for a particular PM (and if we did, K Rudd would still be the PM!): we vote for people to represent us in our electorates ….. and State representatives in the Senate.
I live in Ryan (Qld): have a look at my choices. Woeful!!!
I wouldn’t employ a single one of them. And neither would I employ the party hacks who get put up for the Senate in this state.
I will vote for the party who immediately ceases the superannuation/retirement benefits that these unemployables reap from the taxpapers when they are disenfranchised. (And that goes for my terrible State politicians as well.)
Wel, lotsa people did describe Rudd as ‘Howard-lite’.
I look forward to the photos of Gillard and Rudd standing side-by-side with great big beaming smiles on their dials.
Prefereably without Gillard holding a baby (why do they do that!? – once maybe, but every day).
And while Rudd may have been described as ‘Howard-lite’ in 2007, I guess that was seen as necessary at the time. But, there has been no comparision since his “Sorry” speech.
At the same time, rather than the souffle rising twice- maybe it will be the pumpkin scones (we are talking Qld after all). Could all make it very interesting.
Huggy, I hope that your cat is well and has recovered from the shock of this sudden deposit on it of the contents of your stomach.
Nasty things, these 24 hour viruses that cause us into sudden purges from our viscera which may spray anywhere.
If there is a deeper message there than simply reporting an unintended, unexpected, involuntary and regretted regurgitation hitting a benign and unfortunate feline bystander then I will leave it to PC, representing the good in all of us, to castigate you on cat abuse.
The Age has today’s photo of a grinning John Winston entering the fray and offering his demonic blessings towards the Monk. For a number of reasons I suspect the re-emergence of the Rodent can only be a positive for Labor, reminding people of Ratty’s ghoulish and divisive ways and double-daring them to allow it to happen again. Urghhhhh….
Ken, Kevin will never be leader again. You are living in a fantasy world if you think that is possible. There is too much bad blood between him and the powers that matter, even setting aside that most people in the party didn’t like his leadership. If Labor wins and he serves on the frontbench in the next term, he will be gone from parliament before the next election.
The re-emergence of an on-side Kevin Rudd and the horrendous exhumation of JW Howard to reclaim Australia in his image made for a good day for the ALP…until 10:30pm Lateline.
Mark Aarons has just given a fascinating, transparent and wholly devestating interview about Mark Arbib with Tony Jones that will fuel 10 million megatons of ‘Faceless Bureaucrat’ carnage on the ALP over the next week.
…and the Mining Industry Ad campaign Phase II has not even started.
I think the ALP’s goose has just been cooked.
At a Greens campaign launch tonight former Labor supporters thought that Rudd’s re-emergence was not good for brand Labor.
There are some truly striking parallels with the last US presidential campaign not the least that we have 3 leaders in the campaign – one with large popular support, but cannot actually take the prize. Poor Bob Brown. He always wanted to be the third leg of the stool.
Today was great. Seeing Rudd delivered on so many levels. Seeing Abbott’s health policy fizz like a busted firework was the cherry on top. It will kill the coverage of the Coalition launch too. Hell, it will run through the whole weekend. The press will be camped out like paparazi on Saturday for ‘the meeting’.
I’m not sure how Labor will be able to control it after that. It is weird, it’s dysfunctional and it will has the potential to crumble under sustained criticism. Kevin looked and sounded every bit the PM today, which is something Julia frankly struggles with. Abbott may still come away looking the safer bet to swinging voters.
Then again, maybe a zany Julia and Kevvie show that is totally unpredictable from one day to the next will suck the oxygen out of room, strangle the Coalition campaign and force a major brain snap from Abbott.
Tigtog @4
Howard came up with a good cut-through line of his own today
Spot on.
Both Howard and Rudd put the current contenders in the shade as campaigners.
Baraholka I was watching Mark Aarons also so lets imagine the Mad Monk’s agenda on 22nd August
slash government spending
shred the health/hospital agreement
sell Medibank
sell Telstra or stop it breaking up or cancel NBN
stop abortions
stop access to RU486
bring back work choices
raise retirement age to 70
“I’m not sure how Labor will be able to control it after that. It is weird, it’s dysfunctional and it will has the potential to crumble under sustained criticism. Kevin looked and sounded every bit the PM today, which is something Julia frankly struggles with. Abbott may still come away looking the safer bet to swinging voters.”
This is exactly my concern. Can we be really sure that the glow from Kevin (who wasn’t actually very popular when he was deposed) will be strong enough to offset the possibility that the prominence of his role will make the actual PM look like a sideshow? I’m just not sure. And imagine if Labor does win. You can be certain that parts of the MSM will attribute it to Kevin’s intervention. She just can’t emerge from this looking like a strong leader. She either loses, or looks like she couldn’t win it as the party’s figurehead.
Baraholka @17:
“… the horrendous exhumation of JW Howard …”
So that’s what Tones was implying would come after the burial and cremation.
Rudd out campaigning in QLD, Howard in WA.
Weird. What year is this?
Billie,
Abbott’s smarts in this campaign have been to keep his agenda off the agenda. Greatly assisted by the ALP’s attempt to self-destruct in week 2 the whole campaign has been about the ALP dodging mud slung at them by Abbott.
Gillard and the ALP better unleash their media budget big time over the next two weeks top get some of the items you list across because the Mining Industry will be spending big as well.
BTW have you read George Mega’s articles at Meganomics on the various black holes in the LIb costings ? The ALP are no cleanskins but the Libs are getting away with murder.
I can’t believe that the Lib’s have decided to counter a resurected Rudd with an exhumed Howard.
Surely they can’t be serious…
I think this is a calculated move by Rudd to ensure that his party remains in power and that he can re-enter the cabinet after the election having generously given his support to Julia Gillard when she needed it. It is starting to look like a bad idea to have gotten rid of Rudd.
baraholka @17: I don’t agree that the ALP is dead in the water and that is as of today. However, thanks for the attention to Mark Aarons’ comments about Arbib and unions in the ALP on Lateline. I’m looking forward to catching up with that.
In similar vein Aarons debated John Robertson in 2008 on Lateline about the role of the unions in holding back the democratisation of the ALP. His view then:
This is the system that saw Rudd ousted. Unions disaffiliated from the ALP will not be subject to the discipline of the party mechanisms when the ALP is in office which opens the door for a better deal for unionists. Moreover, a democratised ALP would be more broadly and generally representative of members interests than it is currently allowed to be in a system where very reactionary (union) men get to exercise control without accountability. They are unrepresentative of anythiing other than very narrow sectional and personal interests.
So are LPers still going to vote ALP now that a vote for the ALP is a vote for internet filtering?
Quite a few unions are already supporting the Greens.
Tigtog @4
Yeah, just like his working relationship with Costello that we heard about in 2007
We just need Fraser and Gough to chip in and we’ll have the whole set.
This campaign has jumped the shark. It’s spinning out of control like E-Street. Werewolves, long-lost cousins, three-way marriages and Barnaby Joyce.
It is amazing what a mess Labor have made of it, given the structural advantages they went into the race with. It now looks like the best they can do is limp over the line, all advantages frittered away in a nine-month string of convictionless, poll-driven, second-guessing capitulations.
LO @22. I too am concerned about the ramifications for Gillard’s leadetship should Labor win and history be written that she couldn’t do it without Kev. That would be a shame for out first female PM. Shorten wouldn’t be able to help himself. My great hope for the future is Combet. He is remembered well by many as a principled union man who worked in the national interest.
I don’t think it’ll be an electoral positive for the liberals to have the mining companies running anti-govt ads during an election campaign. Against a policy before the campaign, people will accept… but a bunch of mining companies trying to change the govt? I don’t think that’s going to make people vote liberal.
ditto the rodent. Mining companies+rodent+tony abbot brain fart vs. Rudd + Gillard + we dodged the GFC.
I think this is why the ALP are keeping their advertising for the last 2 weeks. Let the Liberals throw everything and the kitchen sink, then remind everyone of just exactly who they will be voting for if they vote liberal.
And getting the news media to camp out at Rudd’s house is free media. With Rudd now free to campaign as a concerned queenslander, rather than a slightly nerdy guy carrying the can for “govt waste” (puke, vomit, sigh).
I’m expecting Abbot to snarl “bullshit” at a woman sometime next week…
Tssk – regretably I suspect the Libs would have had Howard ready to go on the hustings regardless.
Lets hope the Julia and Kevin show works.
The Libs need to be careful too with Howard. His hearing has degenerated significantly to the point where he has a real tendency towards shouting. I feel for him, but it’s a bad look on camera.
PS. He is finally doing some good work for the hearing impaired after missing the opportunity to do so much as PM.
How do we pronounce ‘Kevin10′? Is it Kevin-Ten or Kevin One-Oh?
Inquiring minds want to know.
sg: “I’m expecting Abbott to snarl ‘bullshit’ at a woman next week.”
Indeed he may, but with what effect? He’s been behaving like that for more than a decade, and look where he is now.
Unless an outburst like that reminds voters of some underlying doubts about Tone…..
One-Zero
represents that ‘e was numero uno,
bert now ‘e is narthing
it’s only worked for him in his local electorate and the liberal party, ambigulous. His snarl at Roxon in the 2007 was a big downer for the liberal party’s vote. I don’t understand why they thought it safe to let him out of the doghouse again, and I think we’ll see their regrets in glorious technicolor sometime soon.
So are LPers still going to vote ALP now that a vote for the ALP is a vote for internet filtering?
You mean a Internet filtering plan that has been shelved indefinitely for the election, that doesn’t have widespread community support, and that may never reappear in the face of a very, very narrow ALP victory and assured Greens balance of power?
Three words for you, Yobbo: National Broadband Network. The ALP support it. The Liberals don’t. Which isn’t so much a problem by itself, except that they don’t seem to have any alternative plans to deal with the slow speeds of the Australian Internet. The Libs seem to be content with a Telstra oligopoly more intent in gaming the system rather than giving their customers better service. The ALP are not content.
When you look at it that way, it’s really no contest, is it?
Oh, but Ms Roxon was teasing him mercilessly (for turning up late) and he knew the Libs were set to lose. No-one’s teasing him this time.
I think it’s futile to think about what would have happened if Rudd hadn’t been dumped. The Rudd we see now is not the Rudd we would have seen if he’d remained in power. It’s like trying to take one ref’s decision out of a football match (I’m thinking RL or RU) and say the rest of the remaining match would have been the same. It’s nonsense.
Rudd is careful to frequently refer to Gillard as the PM. From what I’ve seen it will work just fine, especially since Gillard has had a bit of space to establish herself with Cabinet. If she genuinely brings back cabinet government I’m sure Rudd will rise to the occasion and appreciate the opportunities that gives him as will other cabinet members. If they win.
“a nine-month string of convictionless, poll-driven, second-guessing capitulations.”
Excellent summary, Leinad.
Still voting Greens 1.
Kevin10 will prove to be a game changer…
Was Mark, was.
Dear Dr Bahnisch
Since you have now written 1066 posts for LP, you must surely be recognised with the title “Mark the Conqueror”, oui?
cheerio
Baraholka quoted Howard:
and smiled.
The trouble is that this is exactly what Abbott has been doing. He is the one asserting authenticity most loudly on his own behalf. Own goal IMO.
Since I’m just about to load up some more of the archives that will boost his post count significantly, Mark will be well beyond the Norman Conquests shortly.
In that case, tigtog, I will conduct private libations to Mark the (current but evanescent) milestone.
Keven won? Oh…
Heh.
*sob*
Kevin the Grey is now Kevin the White. (LOTR)
What to do if Labor loses this? Might I suggest that it gives the leadership to “Shagger” Shorten and moves quickly to get that outragous self-promotor, Paul Howes, into parliament as soon as possible as deputy leader; leader-in-waiting. The current leadership of the ALP is probably the least intellectual and visionary we have seen. A Shorten-Howes leadership team would be able to get down another notch in time for the next election.
RECIPE FOR ELECTORAL DISASTER
Take 1 unelectable opposition leader
Add a bunch of almost decomposing shadow ministers
Allow to fester for a few months.
Rapidly remove serving PM, Kevin07 for no apparent reason.
It is crucial that this step is accomplished quickly.
Replace with untried and untested PM, Julia10
Add a bunch of leaks, a sprinkle of useless policies, combine carelessly and allow to stand.
Meanwhile add a few more leaks of a different variety, and combine again.
If recipe is bland, unappealing, lacking substance and tasteless, add a sprinkle of Real Julia seasoning, and allow to stand for a couple of extra days.
If Real Julia doesn’t improve the recipe, add some Kevin10 flavour enhancer and simmer for a couple of weeks before serving.
Any further attempts to tinker with the recipe by including additional ingredients are probably futile, but a couple of teaspoons of major policy announcements may be added prior to serving, but are unlikely to have an affect on the flavour of the recipe.
Please note that this dish is always served with a side serving of media bias, and a glass or two of public indifference.
‘His snarl at Roxon in the 2007 was a big downer for the liberal party’s vote.’
Aaw c,mon sg @ 41, can you nominate even one serious analysis of the 2007 election outcome that nominated Abbott’s behaviour as a factor of any significance at all? There’s a difference between informed speculation and just making stuff up.
When you look at it that way, it’s really no contest, is it?
I agree DAOISG. The choice is between a party who wants to censor the internet, and a party that doesn’t. No contest at all.
OMG, I thought the endless rehashing was meant to be banned.
Likewise, people complain about the repetitve “moving forward” meme, but so many people posting on LP seem to think that endless repitition of the same damn thing is just fine for them.
AAAAARGH.
HULK SMASH.
After picking up the AGE this morning, I think I need to take some annual leave and go to a remote island somewhere and not read any news.
so according to the AGE, “Rudd to Gillard: I’ll Save You” (Is there any RECORD of him actually SAYING that?) and then several columns of damsel-helpless-woman-in-distress-Rescue narrative. White Knight et al.
And: “Sometimes, you need a man with a gun on the campaign trail.” and Michelle… Bloody… Grattan… “Rudd looked positively prime ministerial when he spoke yesterday…matchmaker…marriage of convenience…”
HULK SMASH.
Now I have to tamp my rage down and get back to work.
With keven coming in as a White Knight to save Princess Julia, I suspect the ALP is trrying to appeal to our inert love of fairy tales garnered in childhood. You never know – this very clever appeal to archetypes might work. Theyt are, after all, supposed to be embedded in our psyches.
Yes, fully agree Helen and Paul. We’re now seeing a fairytale playing out in which St. Kevin rescues the Red Witch from dire peril.
And yes, Rudd has never said anything like this at all, but that’s how it’s being played out in the media and here as well.
Cos, y’know – chicks can’t be PM all by themselves.
And I’m just sooo looking forward to the election result. If Labor wins it will be St. Kevin the saviour and if it loses it will be burn the Red Witch.
Then people will vigorously deny that unconscious sexism has played any part in the election soap opera.
Meanwhile, the Libs have huge holes in their budget and that’s getting almost no attention.
The same people who upended Rudd for Gillard now will give her no choice but to accept Rudd’s major presence and act like she’s enjoying it.
This entrire situation is symptomatic of an immense shift in material conditions in the industrialised world. There are serious problems within the ALP and the Libs because both are parties of the epoch of industrial capitalism. Both parties have been the managers of capitalism for their entire existence notwithstanding the occasional nod in the direction of socialism from Labor. The leadership slaughter on both sides speaks of the desperate incomprehension of both sides as they try to find leaders capable of pitching a message to an electorate that sees their policies as irrelevant to the major issue.
That issues is of course how to deal with CC and how to maintain a just and equitable society in the face of that challenge.
I really am looking forward to a veritable army of journalists having to eat the biggest imaginable shit sandwich as the Green senate BoP puts real issues on the agenda.
“I really am looking forward to a veritable army of journalists having to eat the biggest imaginable shit sandwich as the Green senate BoP puts real issues on the agenda.”
You are an optimist akn. Since when do journalists have to even admit their errors, let alone eat a shit sandwich? Still it would be good to see.
@ Leindad – got Fraser, just waiting for Whitlam now…
Actually got Fraser in a way that the Liberals won’t like at all. Abbott not ready: Fraser
No doubt meaning Labor and the Greens, respectively.
Paul, please try to understand that having our very first female PM gave some of us a faint hope that it was a sign that gradually some of that shit might be cleaned out of the collective psyche (especially from our sons’ and daughters’ next-gen psyches). Of course, we were disappointed. As usual.
Absolutely.
[HULK SMASH]
Sorry but….
Abbott is the “problem”. Not Rudd, not Julia.
And he’s winning, not IMHO because of the “media narrative” or the “media bias” or “whether or not there’s leadership coup blood” on anyone’s hand. That’s all just part of the “whatever”.
He’s winning simply because the stuff we think is insane, stupid and unelectable about him actually appeals to a great many Australians. His rabid right wing extremism is, as history shows us, very difficult to counter. Rationale argument, sensible policies..all of that has no impact. He successfully attacks the “hardships” of the system and claims to be speaking up for those suffering in times of economic and political uncertainty. He combines nationalism, religiosity and racialist rhetoric. And his anti-big government big tax talk is of course a ruse — he is, in classic far right fashion, shifting blame for social hardship amongst low income earners away from “exploitative elites” and attacking racial minorities, women, gays, so called “PC” intellectuals and organised labour.
ALP has shifted, as we all know, the wrong way, to the right by trying to get all those disaffected by hard times back into somekind of “nice” social democratic line. This will fail; time and time again it has failed.
The ALP (and the Greens) has to hit back hard NOW. They have to attack his insanity head on. They have to remind Australians what he actually is. Who he actually represents.
Let’s get uglier on his arse. Please.
Yes, I think you’re right, Eric Sykes. The ALP has been on the defensive for far too long – it’s as though they have started themselves to believe the anti-Labor rhetoric.
It’s also very easy to deliver superficially plausible negative bullshit, as Joe Hockey demonstrated this morning.
If we’re doing the fairytale meme thing I vote Howard as Rumpelstilskin.
And the media as Humpty Dumpty from Alice in Wonderland.
cool your heels, Helen and Eric Sykes, find your neutral space. We have weeks to go yet, the ALP ads haven’t started, Abbot still has to show his true face, the election costings haven’t been done… ease down before you blow a transaxle.
I reckon Gillard’s going to do it, somewhere between “just” and “a country mile.” This election is a rich mixture of 1998 and 2004 – Abbott is like Latham, Gillard is like Howard in 98. The benefits of incumbency and Abbot’s natural inability not to fuck puppies on national tv will eventually win out.
I also think the ALP have some internal polling that makes them think that a) those Greens preferences are theirs more than usual and b) the Greens primary vote is soft precisely because it represents a flight by ALP voters who are going to switch back when they get in the booth and imagine big ears and c) with a bit of work from Rudd, they’re not going to lose Queensland.
The latter isn’t sexism either, Helen, it would be the same issue if Gillard was a man. It’s about queensland parochialism and the popularity of the former leader who got done over. The media will cloak it in sexism because they’re a pack of useless shitbags who need a bullet, but the people in Queensland to whom it makes a difference will still believe what they believe no matter how the media dress it.
Yes, SG, I’m sure Kevin would be described as a “White Knight” by the media if he came in to help another bloke’s campaign. And “Cheesy” O’Grattan would be totally describing it as a “marriage”. Colour me unconvinced. Sexism? from our wonderful media? Perish the thought!
Howard’s just weighed in to “help” Abbott on the very same day and do we hear this kind of narrative? No.
Eric – speaking of getting uglier on Abbot’s arse: if I had a home studio and some samples I’d totally be setting this old tape to something interesting and submitting it to GetUp for a radio ad or videomontage:
Gold!!
Best laugh I’ve had all morning, thank you!
yes Helen…was just listening to it. Hmmmmmm. Spool that tape, run that wav editor…..
Sorry Helen, I meant that the ordinary Queenslanders’ attitude towards Kevin was not sexist. The media, definitely, hence my suggested solution. But I don’t think ordinary people with a view of Kevin or JG or anyone else are particularly affected when they see the media dressing it up in this sexism. They might tell the story in the sexist terms you point out, but I think those terms are just epic-story-framework material.
If the sexes were reversed I suppose he’d be being painted as joan of arc or the loving ex-wife or summick. But it wouldn’t change real peoples’ view or reasons for thinking they need him in Queensland.
Which just goes to show how abjectly shit our media are, that they can’t tell a perfectly decent story in non-sexist terms.
@helen,
Queenslanders can definitely not be accused of sexism, considering we’re the only ones to elect a female Premier, unlike ‘progressive’ Victoria, who booted out Joan Kirner.
“Queenslanders can definitely not be accused of sexism…” gee john you must live in the progressive bit, can you let me know whereabouts that is as I’m planning to move suburbs anyway?
Helen I would be horrified if the crap i thought at uni would be used against me today.
In the words oft attributed to Winston Churchill though originating much much earlier:
“Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head.”
Doesnt really hold for those uni lib hacks i know, but you get what i mean.
As much as I’d love to kick the boot into Abbott his uni musings of 30 years ago are really of no relevance.
I mean really.
(And yes, I don’t criticise the Libs for trawling up Uni dirt on Julia because…well it’s what the Libs do. It’s like complaining that crocodiles like snapping at people.)
Actually, reflecting back on many of the student hacks i knew at UQ, seems an inordinate proportion had want of head, but most were forced to make do with ideology.
‘That issues is of course how to deal with CC and how to maintain a just and equitable society in the face of that challenge. ‘
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Only a few hairshirt swampies really give a toss about ‘CC’. And isn’t the phrase ‘just and equitable society’ code for social engineering based upon envy?
As for Kevin Rudd campaigning, what a joke. It demonstrates tha the ALP have completely lost the plot when the PM has to run cap in hand to the man she knifed because he was about as popular as a Commodore at a Ford convention.
Can someone tell me why Queenslanders care so much about the fact that Rudd is a local boy? Why the parochialism?
Even though all the adds telly are the same “it’s different up here”.
that’s “adds on telly”. pardon me.
Have you ever been to Queensland?? World War III might have been declared in Europe and the local networks in Brisbane would lead with Anna Bligh’s appeal to the Queensland spirit.
Prob the same reason some women care that Julia is has two x chromosomes. Or Afro-americans identified with a black president. Its proximity and shared experience I guess.
Just one factor amongst others, though.
High Court just upheld young voters rights what refreshing News for Democracy. Wonderful
apologies for un pc tag above – just didn’t think.
I think those comparisons don’t work sc. Unless you want to argue that Queenslanders are a marginalised group that have been structurally discriminated against for generations.
Of course, that could be true.
SC quoted Churchill:
<blockquote.Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of
want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head
passing over the opportunity to do some double entendre at the expense of Churchill, it is clear that neither at 20 nor at anytime after it was Churchill the sharpest tool in the shed nor a man with a concern for human welfare.
He was an ignorant sociopath, and so his views on socialism are moot.
Fran – did i say they came from Churchill?
He merely appropriated them.
Point is, people change.
Wasn’t it George Bernard Shaw who said that?
From Google Answers: Variations on this quotation have been attributed to Disraeli, Shaw, Churchill, and Bertrand Russell.
Apparently first quoted by Guisot, a French monarchist statesman under Louis Philippe:
Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart;
to be one at thirty is proof of want of head.
-Francois Guisot (1787-1874)
which was later changed by Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929) into:
Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart;
to be one at thirty is proof of want of head.
Double entendre @81 in case you missed it, Fran
‘Show me the boy at 7 years old and I will show you the man’. Apparently a Jesuit phase?
Fair enough on old WC, SC …
I didn’t see your post @81 until I’d posted.
The quotation originally was ‘ Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of a want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head’ attributed to Guizot by Clemenceau. It is often used with ‘socialism’ substituted for ‘republicanism’. Look up Guizot. Not someone who would know anything about socialism. The opposite in fact.
Queensland parochialism is also more obvious because it’s leading to a swing away from the government. Going by the Victorian headlines and polls after Gillard came to power reveal just as parochial an attitude — the difference is that these states swung further towards Labor and, supposedly, are not where the election will be decided.
Sg, let’s hope not only out of the doghouse but off the chain, sh!tting on people’s front lawns and lifting his leg on their car tyres!
I don’t see why you’d need structural discrimination for generations to see an effect of people supporting locals, or people “like them”. That sort of bias comes pretty naturally regardless of any real discrimination – you’ll get minority groups having a bias towards people from the minority regardless of whether there is discrimination or not.
Incidentally Gillard coming from Adelaide has most likely pushed up the ALP vote in SA a bit, just because she grew up in Adelaide.
Queenslanders have been ignored by every government since Federation. During the war, it was the Brisbane Line, under Hawke-Keating, it was destruction of local manufacturing, while protecting the Victorian auto industry. It was everyone outside the state ignoring Bjoche-Petersen running a police state, when all you had to do was ask someone in Brisbane what was happening. It’s now, when a developement project in Sydney is the first story of the ABC news in Queensland, when there are Queensland news stories to report. The only local news is from Stateline, with a almost no journalists, and a $300 a week budget. It’s giving us a story about South Australian dairy farmers getting screwed, when CSR is being privatised, which is a massive Queensland issue, and political journalists from down south describing Joh as ‘genial’. Queensland being treated like a stupid country cousin, when Brisbane is the second oldest city in Australia, and this state has decided every election for the last 20 years.
Our first Prime Minister in 100 years getting stabbed in the back is a bit of a sore point.
@96
Touche.
Brisbane is the second oldest city of Australia?
Kevin looked and sounded every bit the PM today, which is something Julia frankly struggles with.
Troy, can you describe in detail the way “Julia” “struggles” to look like a PM? could it be that we haven’t had a woman PM, ever, and it just looks strange to you?
I haven’t noticed any deficiency in fielding stupid questions and aggressive attacks from other pollies and the media – sure I wish she’d take a different tack sometimes but she’s always level headed, good humoured and clearly, if strinely, spoken. She hasn’t made me despair of the future of this nation the way Hockey, Costello or Abbott has.
I have a feeling you’re going to cite media stunts she’s been inveigled into, like the Women’s Weekly spread (as PC pointed out, all incoming PMs have to run this particular gauntlet). She can’t come close to the number of silly stunts and funny-costume outings that Tones has been involved in quite off his own bat. Double standards, perhaps?
John Edmond @ 103: “Brisbane is the second oldest city of Australia?”
Since Tasmania declared independence at 9am yesterday morning, yes. Didn’t you see the UN observers arriving, on the news?
Rocco Liberal:
Only a few hairshirt swampies really give a toss about ‘CC’. And isn’t the phrase ‘just and equitable society’ code for social engineering based upon envy?
So much laudanum and so early in the day.
Hi Helen, I don’t see deficiencies either in the areas you’ve mentioned. I am more than happy to answer your initial question, but would have appreciated though you not presume to know my thoughts. Any contributions I make on LP are usually, but not always, confined to strategy, tactics and delivery. I’ve openly criticised Julia and the Labor party in general on the first two points. I’ve got lots of company there.
As to delivery, I a certainly not making reference to Julia’s voice. The whole ‘Rabbott’ issue today is frankly pathetic and has no place being raised on ABC radio. I do feel though that Julia is failing to cut through with key messaging. Rudd made a much tighter argument yesterday for re-election based on the strength of our economy and today Creen gave a better (fantastic actually) defence of the BER program at their joint press conference. In my opinion, this is a problem that needs to be addressed as a matter of priority. Julia, as leader, needs to ‘cut through’ and be succinctly on message at every opportunity in the next fortnight.
Isn’t this a rhetorical question?
Yeah, Im backing Hobart Town as our 2nd oldest city in this stoush.
As for the “Kev saves” meme in the event of the ALP holding on – I do take people’s point when they say they arent looking fwd to some potential sexist implications of that (really, I do).
But I fear the overriding fact remains: Julia was tanking – or at least comng very close to it. The ALP didnt really have any other options.
Yes, Troy but in what way is she not Prime Ministerial? Apart from the requirement of every person who’s got the job, to grow into it? Sure she’s been far from perfect tactically, but this could have been said of every PM since federation at times.
Hi Helen, I don’t see deficiencies either in the areas you’ve mentioned. I am more than happy to answer your initial question. You are well off track with your assumptions though.
Any contributions I make on LP are usually, but not always, confined to strategy, tactics and delivery. I’ve openly criticised Julia and the Labor party in general on the first two points. I’ve got lots of company there.
As to delivery, I a certainly not making reference to Julia’s voice. The whole ‘Rabbott’ issue today is frankly pathetic and has no place being raised on ABC radio. I do feel though that Julia is failing to cut through with key messaging. Rudd made a much tighter argument yesterday for re-election based on the strength of our economy and today Creen gave a better (fantastic actually) defence of the BER program at their joint press conference. In my opinion, this is a problem that needs to be addressed as a matter of priority. Julia, as leader, needs to be succinctly and powerfully on message at every opportunity in the next fortnight.
Sorry Helen, I thought the initial post was unsuccessful. I’m working off an Android phone.
Helen, I agree to that PMs usually grow into their roles. Julia does not have that luxury. She has two weeks on top of the very few she’s had in the role of PM to convince the nation to vote to keep Labor in office. This is not a gender issue. This is the path that Julia and the party have chosen.
I beg to differ on the issue of which is the oldest city in Australia.
During the time in question, the prime determinant of city status was possession of a Cathedral. A Cathedral is the seat of a bishop. For example, St David’s in Wales is a city even though fewer than 2000 currently live there.
The first bishop in Australia was dubbed the Bishop of Australia. William Broughton was the Bishop of Australia between 1836 and 1849. His diocese was the entire British part of the continent of Australia.
Indeed, Van Dieman’s Land also was declared a diocese in 1842. But Hobart was not. The Bishop is still dubbed the Bishop of Tasmania.
The first city on the Australian continent to get a bishop was Melbourne in 1847.
Only in 1849 was Broughton’s see declared to be Sydney.
Bishops arrived in other cities later.
Ergo, the first Australian city was Melbourne.
Now, it is notoriously the case that there were several urban settlements in Australia older than Melbourne. But none of them were cities until after Melbourne achieved that exalted status.
Troy, I’m sorry to be a nuisance, but you still haven’t explained what you mean by
“Kevin looked and sounded every bit the PM today, which is something Julia frankly struggles with.”
What were the qualities displayed by Rudd which seemed Prime Ministerial to you, and in what ways did Gillard fail to live up to the standard?
This is not snark. I really want to know.
Sorry, I meant second-oldest city on the mainland.
Helen, I have tried to answer your question, by perhaps not as directly as you want. What constitutes being ‘Prime Ministerial’ is I think totally subjective. Hence your dissatisfaction with my response. For me, it is in great part content and delivery. Delivery I’ve already gone into, but I will go further and state that whilst Julia’s parliamentary performance is very strong, her delivery on the campaign started poorly but is at least improving. As for content, Julia needs to take responsibility for the poor quality of both policy and ideas we have seen from Labor this campaign. Isn’t that what being PM is all about? The battle of ideas? Kevin strode to the podium and defended his policies and ideas with elegance (although a bit long winded), passion and conviction.
With respect Helen, this is the last post I’ll be making on the topic. I hope my answer suffices.
Katz has a good argument but I am afraid he is wrong.
Hobart was certainly decreed to be a city by letters patent issued 21 August 1842, and read in Hobart in July 1843.
A copy of this proclamation can be found in here
Sydney was proclaimed to be a city just earlier. It was home-grown; on 20 July 1842, the Legislative Council passed a bill (6 Vic.No 3), the Corporation Act: “An Act to declare the town of Sydney to be a city and to incorporate the inhabitants thereof”.
However beating them both was Adelaide. On 19 August 1839, Her Majesty’s Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies sent a despatch to the Governor of South Australia claiming: “And whereas the City of Adelaide having attained a population exceeding the requisite amount, it is expedient, in compliance with the aforementioned recommendation, that the said city should now acquire an elective municipal institution”.
I should say the copy is a copy of a copy – the proclamation was reissued and it is this reissue that is in there.
Katz@114
“During the time in question, the prime determinant of city status was possession of a Cathedral.”
Parliament trumps Cathederal.
“In 1840, Governor Gipps introduced a bill to the Legislative Council to establish municipal institutions in New South Wales. On 20 July 1842, an Act (6 Vic.No 3) was passed ‘to declare the town of Sydney to be a city and to incorporate the inhabitants thereof’. On 12 August 1842, Melbourne was incorporated as a ‘town’.”
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/AboutSydney/documents/history/hs_chos_history_of_council_1001.pdf
Brisbane was not actually incorporated as a City until the early 20th century, if I remember things correctly. Local government areas in Qld were municipalities until a new local government act created towns and cities.
d
Ingenious argument Martin B. Unfortunately, the actions of the NSW Legislative Council simply don’t cut it. At the time a city without a cathedral was no city at all. The squattocracy of NSW in 1842 may well have declared Sydney to be the holy city of Islam. Without the Kabaa such a claim would be vacuous.
Sydney had no cathedral and Sydney had no Kabaa. Sydney could not be a city in 1842 despite torrents of official proclamations.
And the same applies to Adelaide and Hobart.
Thankfully, Australians are no longer in the thrall of the Church of England in the matter of city status. I am thus delighted to acknowledge that Gympie is now legitimately a city.
I’m afraid not. The tradition from the 16th century was certainly that a town with a diocesan cathedral should be a city. However the formal declaration of the city status was a result of the monarch’s decree. Note that Birmingham, for example, became a city 16 years before becoming such a seat, and Leeds still is not.
Legitimate legislation is certainly a substitute for the monarchs decree in a constitutional monarchy.
Oh there is an error in my original post. The bit quoted for Adelaide is also from legislation through the Legislative Council giving effect to the instructions from the British Secretary, not from his instructions themselves.
@104
I thought the Women’s Weekly spread Julia did was a great idea. Her face is on the cover of every WW magazine in all the paper-shops around the country. For the entire month! Talk about free advertising. Of course it might look a little bit like a bad joke for the next week or two if she doesn’t win…
Martin B, I grant you that the achievement of city status by Birmingham does set a powerful precedent. And precedents change both thinking and practice.
Perhaps it has escaped your attention that Birmingham was not granted city status until 1889, fully 40 years after the achievement of city status by Melbourne resultant from that city’s acquisition of a Bishop.
As the precedent of Birmingham had not retrospectively changed either thinking or practice as far back as the 1840s, I believe that it is true to say that Birmingham is not relevant to our discussion.
You just can’t take a trick today, can you Katz? @121 ” I am thus delighted to acknowledge that Gympie is now legitimately a city.”
There are seven cities in Queensland: Brisbane. Gold Coast, Ipswich, Logan, Redlands, Mt Isa & Townsville. Gympie is a Region, whose seat of government is in the urbanised area of the same name.
d
Gympie isn’t a region. Gympie is a regional city.
If you have any issues with that nomenclature, I suggest you discuss it with the Gympietes. You might like to wear a mouthguard.
Katz, people can and do call themselves whatever they wish. If the residents of Bundaberg believe they are living in a Grand Duchy, I am not going to go out of my way to tell them they are wrong. That would be, at best, ill-mannered.
However, the facts are that Queensland consists of Cities, Regions, Shires and Towns (and Aboriginal Shires). Queensland consists of seven cities, 27 Regions, 24 Shires and zero towns.
d
Precisely my point DR.
Anyone can be a city nowadays. But back when Melbourne Australia’s first city, things were different.
Thank you SG@72 for the beautiful imagery of people in the voting box and thinking of Big Ears. Beautifully written and got a large belly laugh.
Thanks for the link about Abbott’s old interview, Helen. I didn’t think it was possible but Abbott sounds creepier in that recording than now (nothing to do with the quality) and his voice reminded me of Dickey Knee from Hey Hey fame.
I’ve really enjoyed reading LP during the election campaign. I’m living overseas (postal vote on its way to me!) so it is nice to see the summary of the campaign and media coverage. Fingers crossed that Big Ears doesn’t become PM – another reason to not hurry home!!! (Even if the PM where I am is a douchebag like Big Ears).