Two of the most unedifying aspects of the aftermath of the election result, from the time when it became apparent that we would have a hung parliament, have been the pressure for a quick resolution and the endless rehashing of campaign themes.
Both are related.
Significant shifts in Australian politics have manifested themselves in this result, many of which are not strongly related to the surface political events of the campaign. For journalists to swallow the claim that all would have been well for the Labor campaign had it not been for leaks is to abdicate judicious reasoning. There was a time when skepticism would rightly have been applied to the efforts of a campaign director – such as Karl Bitar in this instance – to absolve himself of blame.
Nothing has been less illuminating than the spectre of partisan-bots like Andrew Robb and Bill Shorten rehearsing their lines, yet again, on Insiders, except perhaps the spectacle of yet another ABC News 24 “special” with a balanced panel of “formers” – ex-Labor and Liberal staffers of whom no one has heard, and who have nothing of interest to say.
The impatience, and haste, to resolve the result into a partisan frame is twinned with risible claims about the necessity of appeasing “markets” who are said to abhor “uncertainty”.
The dim drumbeat of campaign rhetoric and commentary beats its repetitious way on, for want of the anticipated end to the narrative.
As a nation, we should seize the chance to cast aside some tired dichotomies, including those which seek to oppose some parts of the country to others, as if Australia’s soul exclusively resided in one mythical region.
It’s appropriate, then, that we resist the huge amount of pressure that will fall upon the independent MPs to make a hasty decision, whether it comes from the media or from the spurious arguments of triumphalist Liberals.
Fortunately, having watched Tony Windsor, Bob Katter and Rob Oakeshott on the 7.30 Report (where the full video is now available online), I’m confident that no rush to decision is in prospect. We have the chance to sort out many of the dysfunctions of our national politics through this moment, and it’s worth taking time to do that properly.
Elsewhere: Grog’s Gamut on the difference between what we think, what we know, and what we can prove. Salutary reading on the election outcome, and its aftermath.
How refreshing to have three politicians talking to us instead of sloganeering at us.
Judging from O’Brien’s interview with the three Independents, I don’t think anyone will be bullying them into making hasty decisions. I didn’t detect any love of the Coalition in what they had to say.
If anyone missed it, a replay on ABC News 24 has just started a few seconds ago.
Elsewhere: Grog’s Gamut on the difference between what we think, what we know, and what we can prove. Salutary reading on the election outcome, and its aftermath.
A quick look at Antony’s blog reminds me that we had the best state government for a long time, for four years, after Peter Lewis, Karlen Maywald and a couple of other small “l” types gave Rann the benefit and government in 2002. I can’t see what point there would be in having Abbott in government now.
Don’t they have a couple of weeks to make their mind up anyway because the AEC have to wait for postal votes anyway?
@6 – Up to a point, Chris, but I think realistically the way the seats will fall will be known by the end of the week.
Oakeshott impressed me the most of the three. When asked about what policies he wanted – he indicated he wanted an improvement in policy making processes. As example, he cited the Henry and Garnaut reviews, which were commisioned by the gov, yet whose recommendations were mostly ignored or discarded. I got the impression he was sympathetic to both reviews.
I haven’t had time to read the other threads, but if Labor end up on 72 and the LNP on 73 Assuming Hasluck goes to the LNP) and 76 is the magic number, then Labor can still do it without Katter, but the LNP will need Katter or Wilkie.
Some of Katter’s wish list might be a bit hard to deal with. I’ve heard him talk about a 15% tariff on imported food, subsidies to farmers, the Bradford Scheme (turning the northern rivers inland) and biosecurity decisions that would land us in trouble with the WTO.
Rudd would have won, almost certainly. PMs in his position and worse basically never lost. He was trending upwards and so forth.
Then you have the advantage of incumbency, Rudd’s campaigning expertise (look at Gillard) and so forth.
In the end Gillard made it worse, instead of a incumbency effect to her it went to the Libs as the last known government. Her campaigning was absymal, policy approach also terrible and performance in dealing with Abbott also bad.
Yet the 30 seconds we got from Rudd he was able to nail a cut through messages immediately.
Its pretty disengenous to pick a poll in a whole cycle of polls and say this person is going to lose. You could say Keating, Hawke and Howard would never have won using the same technique.
But what history does teach is PMs never lost with polls Rudd had and even worse polls than that.
I think there will be a number of attempts to justify Gillard’s grab for power because there remains this adulation of her. But she showed these past two months her leadership skills are below standard.
There is at the moment a desperate attempt by the Gillard cabal to off load responsibility for this disaster she and they created. The elephant in the room is Gillard. She made the play, she should resign. She has poisoned the well.
Brian,
I think Windsor and Oakeshott could deal reasonably well with either party – but maybe more happily with the coalition parties they used to be members of and I cannot see them agreeing to bind themselves to anything other than Supply. Katter would be happy to deal with anyone that was prepared to take Australia back to the 1950s, so I think either party would have a problem there, but Abbot may have a little better room for a deal. I am not sure he would want to, though.
Bandt (despite getting in on Liberal preferences) and Wilkie (ditto) will probably not be able to work with Abbott and so would go to the ALP.
To me, this is going to be a recipe for government paralysis – and another election in short order.
There is another option, of course. Grand coalition, anyone?
Thomas P, I think it’s pointless to argue about what Rudd might have done. The Rudd you see now isn’t the Rudd you would have seen if he’d remained PM.
FWIW I had a chat with my elder brother tonight who lives in Central Qld and is plugged into LNP politics. He thought Rudd was gone and that their chances declined markedly when Gillard took over.
And please, I’m not saying that Rudd should have been toppled, nor am I saying that Gillard has performed all that well since. She’d make a good PM though.
Abbott is going to find that running around playing 10th grade tennis in a suit and fifth grade football, plus continually mouthing well-rehearsed slogans is not the same as being PM if he gets the chance.
Andrew R @ 11, I think there is a path for left/green leaning ALP. But Abbott would have to deal with Katter as well as get stuff through the ALP/Green senate.
There is no force in his mandate for anything other than good government.
The Greens are highly toxic in the bush in Qld, especially in the north. (They have some credit around the Darling Downs on what the CSG and coal miners are doing there.) It seems we have just elected as the Qld Green senator an environmental lawyer who worked on drafting the vegetation management legislation that is driving Qld farmers crazy.
Brian is spot on imo.
One or two comments about a lightweight idea concerning the aims of the outlyer resource states and the established centre “rubbing” a little.
It’s a long way to go, its speculation while waiting for the final tally.
It’s difficult to like most our politicians, just now. I even miss Wilson, compared to some of the ones left.
That was a remarkable 7:30 Report interview with the three key independents and gives us some hope of a rational outcome. Even Katter, the wildcard of the group, expressed an ideal of solidarity with the other two.
Oakeshott’s views touched briefly on the discontent with Rudd in a minor variation on the unhappiness in Caucus and the public service. That is, consultation with parliamentarians in general and the Senate in particular, had led to problems. His reference to the Henry Report was telling. Of course such a major report should have gone in whole to parliament. It was in the public interest. It will almost certainly do so now.
I was rather encouraged by their contempt for Truss and Barnyard, albeit Windsor acknowledged that it is always necessary to work with people you may not like.
It sounds like the new WA National MP might not line up in coalition colours, after warning Abbott not to count on it.
It would not surprise me if all of these formed a sort of Transparency and Integrity in Government Charter similar to the Vic and SA minority Labor Governments of earlier years. As some have said, these worked better than the subsequent majority governments. It’s very new federally but worth a try.
I just hope Faulkner is a key part of Labor’s negotiating team. I agree with Brian that Labor is in a stronger position to deliver broadly want the independents want.
As Mark said, there is no rush. Although Antony Green believes there are now only two seats in genuine doubt – Denison (Ind or Labor) and Hasluck (Liberal or Labor) – there are some counts still close enough to produce an unexpected turn:Brisbane, Lindsay, Corangamite, Boothby. So might as well wait and see.
I could not help but snigger when TA said amongsy other things “that Labor had lost their moral authority to govern.”
The ABC 7.30 Report last night was the best I have seen in years, and I think it even pleasantly surprised an old trooper like Kerry O’Brien, as the three rural Independents spoke like adults about peace, order and good government, reassuring us that “hung” parliaments are not new in Australia, that independents can add value to legislative deliberations, and that our democratic system is not broken, don’t panic people and let the process flow to its negotiated conclusion.
This is real politics, enjoy.
I think we’re going to have another election very soon. There is no way any deal involving Bob Katter can last long.
FYI, the gross feed-in tariff bill that Oakeshott introduced as a private members’ bill into the HoR was from Christine Milne – greens and the Greens have also worked with Tony Windsor.
So particularly with those two independents there is a reasonably well established good working relationship with the Greens that will provide for another interesting & positive dynamic in the new parliament.
Last night Katter used the word “paradigm” about three times, properly and in context. I was impressed.
Brian @13 Just because the vege legislation is driving some farmers mad doesnt mean its not good or necessary legislation. IMO it is not just good, but VITAL fore the management of sustainable agriculture. I am very happy that we FINALLY have a progressive representative for QLD in the senate. I am sick of LNP bigots and vandals such as Joyce pretending they speak for me.
Brian @13 Just because the vege legislation is driving some farmers mad doesnt mean its not good or necessary legislation. IMO it is not just good, but VITAL fore the management of sustainable agriculture. I am very happy that we FINALLY have a progressive representative for QLD in the senate. I am sick of LNP bigots and vandals such as Joyce pretending they speak for me.
DON – the three independents aren’t conservatives, they’re agrarian socialists in the good old Country Party mold. They’re closer to the Chinese Communist party (big state, lots of infrastructure and hand-outs) than either of the two major conservative parties in this country
Stupid thought I just posted on twitter:
I hope that the ALP realize that Turnball and any wet Libs that might be floating around could also be targeted by Labor to switch sides or to go indie. I could imagine that Turnball could land himself a ministry and some serious legislative success if he played this right. Though, his career in the Libs would be over. Then again I think that if Abbott becomes PM Turnball’s political career is essentially over anyhow.
One big influence on the NSW independents that nobody seems to have mentioned is the late Peter Andren, former member for Calare. His parliamentry behaviour is a big part of why there are successful independent candidates in regional NSW and who they will try to emulate.
Interesting thought Mick. My concern would be that Turnbull would want a weak ETS, like the one he did with Fergusson, and that wouldn’t fit with the Greens thinking. But, hey, who knows. We are living in interesting times!
Thomas Paine, I think you might want to read and ponder the Grog’s Gamut article Mark linked to about the difference between thinking, knowing and proving.
Grog’s Gamut makes the same error as numerous commenters here over the last few weeks.
Rudd’s dismissal did not have such an impact on people because they loved Rudd, or thought he was a terrific prime minister. Its trauma arose from the manner of its doing and what that said about the ALP: a party where parliamentarians were basically told what to do by a bunch of unknown backroom boys and unaccountable union nonentities like Paul Howes and Bill Ludwig.
The whole Kevin07 message was that the ALP had finally reinvented itself. Rudd’s knifing by small-minded union hacks was like a bucket of ice water proving that this is not a bright shiny new social democratic party in the making after all, but an extension of the useless mob that has been pandering to narrow sectional interests in the states for years, most especially in NSW.
So in a sense it had nothing to do with Rudd and everything to do with what Rudd stood for. The latter turned out to be all smoke and mirrors and instead, we saw a tired old Labor Party that has turned its back on the 21st century.
@26 and @10 – ahhh the endless rehashing of the coup.
Can’t we all just accept that we have different views on this and look not at the coup or even the election- both events which are now gone – but what can be done from here and what if any are the lessons about what has happened?
Are there structural issues in alp/green realignment,
Are the existing power structures in the ALP needing to be challenged ?
What is there that we should do to try and have a progreessive position ?
What is a progressive position in the current circumstances ?
Fwiw the gittins article in the fairfax press today i reckon is spot on – can someone link ?
To Grace @20 why is it such a surprise to you and many other LPrs that the independents are not some hayseed crackpots. Katter may not be the most eloquent and polished intellectual, however he has earned the respect and gratitude of the overwhelming majority of his constituent for his forthrightness and dedication to his electorate. He calls it as he sees it, something that no major party member has the luxury of. It is about time that the ‘bush’ has a voice, even it is somewhat unpolished and unconventional. It is not about pork barreling, don’t forget it is us who grows the pork and digs in the mines. To some extend, it is about similar issues that effect city folks, such as health and transport. However, because of the remoteness the lack of adequate planning and construction has larger repercussions here. Same with communication, internet, telecommunication, reception of ABC radio TV etc. is third world rate out here. Further, it is surely not too much to ask to provide to the non-vertically integrated rural business sector a commercial and political stability to allow them to adapt to the massive environmental and trade pressures, in order for them to continue to provide the food that graces your table and earn the export $ to fund consumption and service sector growth.
In the last 24 hours I have heard more sense and seen more integrity from the 3 rural representatives, then I have over the last few months from any of the major party representative. Let us all hope they can keep it up, because as sure as hell we will these qualities in these uncertain and challenging times!
@Melbournehammer,
here’s that Ross Gittins column: Labor deserves some credit, not death at the ballot box
Oops, that one’s from a couple of weeks ago, isn’t it? I can’t find a newer one online yet.
check out smh – voters censure labor’s lack of principles
Sounds a lot like the rhetoric that was used to boost Pauline Hanson to me, and “I love Australia, but we’re a vanishing race, and we’re burying our own identity under the waves of others coming in from overseas…” is pure Hansonism. Just because you’re salt of the earth doesn’t make racism and Fortress Australia policies OK.
@12
“Thomas P, I think it’s pointless to argue about what Rudd might have done. ”
It is pointless if you don’t like the idea of people being held responsible for the actions. T. Paine is pretty much spot on in his historical account, something that should have been obvious to the plotters. I think the narrative has now switched to a “desperate need for a stable government” and that that will be used by the boneheads in the ALP who got us here as cover until the heat is off. Of course if we end up with PM Abbott it will be a lot harder for them to avoid getting a kicking as recriminations will be the only game in town for a severely demoralised ALP.
Sorry technically wrong thread @29.
However,will not repost there as there more of a carnival than informed discussion on the Katter thread.
It’s about the economy, stupid.
Nobody seems to have properly taken on board the most telling statement that Maxine McKew made on Sat night when she said that labor couldn’t get its message across that the country only had 5% unemployment. What she really meant was that it couldn’t do that because it had bumped off the architect of hits economic performance, Kevin Rudd.
So we had the truly bizarre sight of Julia running around (wearing floaties and training wheels) trying to own/disown labor’s legacy. Then, when things got really desperate at the end, she started screaming about the economy and challenging Tony to a debate. But the big problem, of course, was that she was not screaming about her record, but Rudd’s. Good grief. That’s what Peter Brent means when he says that labor threw away the benefit of incumbency.
Rudd was always going to sail through choppy media waters until the election was called. Then he would have a chance to sell the govt’s record. But, of course, when the election was called, he wasn’t there to sell the message. Disaster.
I also note that if anything saves Labor it will be the NBN, which Rudd was instrumental in putting in place. It’s the sort of big visionary item that I really doubt Julia had it in her narrow soul to deliver.
Indeed, anyone who thinks she’s anything other than a right-wing, small target managerial type or will do anything about climate change should read Paddy Manning’s article in the SMH on the weekend. Totally eye-popping about Julia and the people behind her. We obviously got the citizens assembly fiasco because she will do anything to avoid doing anything about climate change. If anything demonstrates she is totally incapable of waking up and smelling the coffee on the big issues confronting labor, surely that was it.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/labors-climate-enemies-within-20100820-138tb.html
So, unless the independents pulls Julia to the left (which might happen, because most are agrarian socialists in the good old Country Party / Chinese Communist Party (circa 1968) mold), she is going to trash the Labor brand as a progressive party – in which case, the Labor party won’t be around as a force in 10 years time. Think what happened to the British Liberals (under Lloyd George – another Welsh-person) in England at the beginning of the 20th century when Labor appeared on its flank and grabbed the progressive banner: a century of wishy-washy middle of the road irrelevance.
Which is good news, of course. It would be much better to have people like Albo, Tanya etc in a separate party which is not subject to labor party discipline (although, of course, they won’t be in that new party)
The only decision stupider than putting Julia in charge was the lib decision to put Abbott in charge. Turnbull would have won this election by the length of the straight. I just pray the poor bloke doesn’t engage in self-harm.
@33 – I don’t think there’s any basis to associate Katter with racist sentiments. Frank Brennan is only one prominent activist and writer who’s given him due credit for his work in Indigenous affairs as a state minister. I’m far from agreeing with his politics but frankly this rush to judge him because he’s from north qld and wears an Akubra sits ill with me. He’s far from stupid and is a person of considerable integrity.
Ootz observed:
In physics, “work” is said to have occurred when a mass is moved over some distance. We humans put a higher value on work that moves things in the right direction rather than a random direction, or one that heads towards something worse than what we have.
Dedication is all very well, (though in Katter’s case it looks like egomania built upon ignorance) but the fellow is obviously culturally still somewhere in the late 1950s. His comments about gays (walking north backwards until there were none about) say a lot about who he is.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/voters-censure-labors-lack-of-principles-20100822-13auk.html
Is this the one you want tigtog @31?
Zarquon (on 24). Yea, verily!!!
What a wonderful role model for Australian school students the late Peter Andren would be. He’s right up there with Simpson and his donkey, John Eyre and Wiley, Sister Kenny and Pastor Doug Nichols.
Fat chance that he will ever become one while Australia remains in the clutches of a near-monopoly “news(wtf?) media”, its puppet one-faction-three-party and a weak-as-dishwater vice-regal system.
Still, there’s always word of mouth …. so we can tell young Australians, face-to-face, that some parliamentarians really do have honour, integrity, probity and all the other virtues and strengths worth emulating …. and that such a person was the late Peter Andren.
In fact, the biggest loser from this election is Malcolm. He coulda been PM. But instead, the dopey liberals will now think Tone is the answer and stick with him, rather than Malcolm.
Thanks joe2 – it was Melbournehammer who wanted the link, but that does indeed look like the right one.
Here’s Ross Gittins in the SMH today.
Your welcome tigtog. I saw some beautiful black cockys yesterday but I should not mention them here.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/
For those who’ve missed it, here is an animated Taiwanese news item on our election. Incredibly funny. Much more thoughtful and intelligent than we get on the MSM here.
Oh, really, Fran?
Look, I went to uni with one of Bob’s daughters and have met him a few times. He is an intelligent man. I have no truck whatsoever with his views on social issues, but there’s no doubt that he is far from stupid. This sort of reflex dismissal of someone from outside the charmed circle of the Southern capital cities is exactly what gives a lot of Queenslanders the shits, to put it frankly.
Mike @ 41 – well Gillard may not come out so well from this election either. Betting markets are predicting Shorten will be the leader of the Labor party at the next election http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/odds-shorten-on-next-labor-leader-20100823-13d2g.html
So it looks like Katter is our Polanyian double (barreled) movement personified.
Amazing and terrifying.
Mark said:
Oooh Mark … State of Origin time … (or is it city v country?)
I didn’t say he was stupid. Plainly, he has the acumen to stay in office. I did say he was ignorant, which he plainly is.
Mike @36, but re. references to the protaganists in general: slightly tangential to the thread, but did you notice that throughout your lengthy post you referred to female politicians by their first names and male politicians by their surnames? Please, everyone, be aware if you’re doing that, and don’t. (And please have a think about what it might mean about your subconscious attitudes, whatever your forebrain might think it thinks.)
@46 mark – i posted my response on the Katter thread – didn’t realise there were Katter fires burning here as well.
Yes, I think there may be a leetle bit of local defensiveness there. “”I love Australia, but we’re a vanishing race, and we’re burying our own identity under the waves of others coming in from overseas…” is pretty loud and clear, I think.
HELEN – Interesting – although I do call Abbott “Tone” a lot, and I did give a few female surnames. But will quietly reflect.
Ootz@29: “To Grace @20 why is it such a surprise to you and many other LPrs that the independents are not some hayseed crackpots.”
Relax. I meant what I said, I was impressed by Katter last night, including his use of pomo language not often found west of the divide.
CHRIS – thanks. With Shortie running labor, Bob Brown will be in the Lodge before you know it.
Very important point I read on another blog. The next NSW and QLD elections will be using OPTIONAL PREFENTIAL voting. In other words, you can vote green and don’t have to vote labor.
That could mean armageddon for the NSW Labor party (and particularly the influence of the NSW right).
With great resepct to Grog – whose columns I dig, some things are self-evident. The ALP had trouble selling its economic success cos they topped the guy who did it. And for the first two week wer REFUSING to touch his legacy.
Plus ones of the things we know is that there’s virtually no evidence he was genuinely on the nose – if we all dug around and cited the worst possible single poll figure among 100s as ‘evidence’, then no PM in living memory except Hawke would have made it to the 2nd election.
I think the ALP just has to wear the reality that it was one of a series of huge mistakes, and move on. Denial is a place in the Sudan.
And in any event Mark, it was about Katter, rather than all those from outsede the capital cities. Abbott hails from a place 23 minutes drive from where I live. He is also ignorant and egomaniacal. Howard lived about the same distance away.
Conversely, Oakeshott from Lyne seems articulate and informed. So too was Andren from Calare and Windsor from New England, both of whom rather made their side of politics seem a lot more thoughtful.
God help us all, Chris@47. I can see the attack ads already. “Shorten – the man who backstabbed two leaders in a year!” Greens would do well out of this; the country not so much.
Question: Why do the Nationals produce so many independents?
Answer: Quite simply because although they collect [small] subscriptions from almost every farming family in Australia the bulk of their money comes from large companies. The National party machine serves the interests of the organisations that fund them, Monsanto, Coles, Woolies etc.
If we want to reform the House of Representatives why not say the rural electorates have populations of 90,000 electors and the metropolitan city electorates are one block that returns multiple members. So, say, Newcastle, Sydney, Wollongong has 3,000,000 electors they would return 30 members of Parliament – that would allow Greens and other smaller parties to ge across the line as well as permit FNQ to send their own representative to CAnbeera
Peter Brent suggests that, if you look at the health debate earlier in the year, a Rudd v Abbott match-up during the election would have been all Rudd’s way.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mumble/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_morning_after/
I am amazed Bill Shorten found a woman shorter than himself. Quentin Bryce always looks tall on TV.
Sometimes reflex dismissal’s a 2-way street though Mark.
Making a virtue out of ignorance and openly celebrating one’s hostility to the City* doesn’t fill this particular Carltonian with longing for a reconcilliation with FNQ.
*Which I’m not saying anyone here is doing, of course.
On katter – I must confess I’m somehwat perversely a fan. I love his work on coalition unity, and he’s seriously old school on protectionism. Obviously, run a mile from his social views, but where Joyce is just a lightweight nutter, katter is an actual maverick,.
The big Kat cacnt be pigeonholed either – he loves Jack Black McEwen AND Red Ted Theodore – former QLD Labor premier. He’s a serious old skoool agrarian socialist.
And he has quite good realtions with the local Murri communities, actually.
Im with Mark: dont let impression fool you, the guy is sharp and he is in no way a Lib/Nat stooge.
@62 –
FDB, Katter isn’t doing that just because Fran says he is.
Repeated assertion doesn’t make it so.
Peter Brent is correct, but the spinners who spun Labor into this position are still spinning.
The wipe-out that awaits NSW Labor won’t change much because most of the offenders have very sensibly already jumped ship to the Federal sphere where their special brand of stupidity has been plain for all to see.
Agree with Mark and Lefty E on Katter – it’s all too easy to dismiss him and snigger at the ad, but like most independents he has to deliver for those he represents, and he is no fool.
And Graham Bell @ 40 is spot on about Peter Andren.
This is a cross post from the Katter thread as its fallen off side panel and i cant find it anymore. Also, i’m in a feisty kinda Devils advocate mood:
I just read that article Helen too,
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/bob-katter-to-make-major-parties-earn-his-endorsement-for-balance-of-power/story-fn5z3z83-1225908595667
and as i mentioned up thread, at first i was surprised to find he is beloved in the indigenous community.
However, if you stop to think about it, if an indigenous leader from up north made that same pronouncement, you’d kinda be able to contextualize it, and feel the frustration they were trying to convey.
It takes a lot for a city dweller to get into the head of rural Australia, and some of it is not pretty, but some of it IS eminently understandable.
The interesting thing is, as progressives, we tend to rail against sectarianism and ignorance when we see it played out in our own, but ignore it when it exists in new populations.
We seem to have a benevolent faith that if we treat people with grace and acceptance, new populations which hold abhorant views will shed them in the face of ‘a better way’. (And i believe this IS the starting point to treating people….).
Funny thing is, we often dont extend that grace and acceptance backwards to our own, and are unable to hear any wisdom they may have, as its mixed in with the ‘vile’ stuff.
SO, the irony is, we seek to emphasis the ‘good’ in the new conservatives (i.e. certain migrant demographics) while ignoring the nasty (racism, sexism and violence – and as a feminist worker in the DV sector i have a little experience); while we emphasize the nasty (racism, sexism and violence) in the old conservatives and ignore the positives.
IMHO this kinda unconsciously informs the ‘push against/push back’ happening between progs and conservatives in a range of western democracies atm, and the inability of both sides to grasp the perspectives of the other only entrenches the divide.
LEFTY E – Agree, but where does Labor move to? Because, if it holds onto power, it will, it appears, have a leader who is just a careerist who doesn’t want to do anything. But doing nothing is sure death. Julia has to fire up people’s imagination and get some big legislation (mining tax, carbon tax, etc etc) under her belt to prove her credentials and show she’s a fighter. There is absolutely no sign that she or her camarilla understand that.
P.S. If she forms a minority government, does that mean she can tear up her agreement with the mining companies. Considering how much trouble they have caused, that should be the first item on the agenda, to show her “bona fides”
No Mark. Not necessarily at least.
I strongly doubt Bob believes himself to be ignorant. As far as he (and a whopping percentage of his constituents) are concerned, he knows everything he needs to know to do his job effectively for his local stakeholders – and perhaps he does. I’m equally sure that Bob and his supporters would think me ignorant of a great many important things – and in many cases they’d be right – but I want to know those things. I want to understand literally everything ion the world.
That’s the thing about ignorance isn’t it? None of us knows how much we’ve got. Some of us think that the less we have, the better. Some of us even do something about it.
Newsflash: Denison now being called for the ALP, not Wilkie.
If confirmed – this puts ALP on 73, plus Bandt.
They still need Hasluck to put it beyond doubt, but this strengthens JGs hand on issues of minority govt convention quite considerably – if confirmed.
@52 – With the greatest of respect, Helen, there’s not an enormous amount of difference between those comments of Katter’s and Gillard’s rhetoric early in the campaign about “protecting our great Australian way of life”, being against a Big Australia, wanting “space”, etc, etc.
@69 – Not following you in the slightest here, FDB. What is the basis for asserting Katter is ignorant? As I said, I have no time for his social views, but it is just wrong to say he doesn’t inform himself on economic and political issues. If anything, he makes quite a neat case against the neo-liberal consensus.
I don’t regard a concern for fair trade and a concern with the sustainability of Australian industries as ignorant. But, then, I’m no advocate of the dominant globalisation paradigm in political economy, just as Katter isn’t. Perhaps some here are?
Re: State of Origin.
I get the feeling that Rudd was on the nose in Qld well before June. But he would have been able to play the Maroon card at election time. Go Queenslander. After June, my feeling is that it did become a SOO thing. Madonna King said as much on a Q&A. Stuff the mexicans!
Just on Bob Katter.
He is being paid to represent his constituents’ interests – and the interests of the nation’s populace – in the national capital. (How he does it and what his personal views are on specific topics are only of peripheral interest).
He does that very well indeed. He does what his customers pay him to do. His customers get good value for their money out of the service he provides for them.
Guess what? He gets repeat business.
Maybe there’s a lesson in there somewhere for all the celebrity politicians, windbags and other posers. No? Too hard? Oh well ….
Also, what sublime cowgirl said @67.
I’ll repeat the point I made earlier – if you read Fr Frank Brennan’s book Land Rights, Queensland Style you’ll find that Katter, as Aboriginal Affairs Minister in Queensland in the mid to late 80s did a lot of good in terms of clearing out the paternalist bureaucrats in his department, and advocating a model of Indigenous land rights which Brennan regarded – rightly – as superior to anything Hawke was prepared to support at the time.
LE is quite right – there’s a lot of respect for him in the Murri community.
Wow – not only Grayndler – but Batman – is being reconfigured by the AEC as an ALP/GRN 2pp.
smell the future!~
Way to do a backhanded apology, Grace.
Leftie (on 70).
Willkie will find it difficult to climb the half-dozen steps to the podium because of the sheer weight of cutlery in his back …. all thrust in there by the spiteful, the pompous, the barely competent, the envious, the cowardly and all the other nong-nongs who have endangered this country; they can never never never forgive him; they can never never never get over it. He had guts, they didn’t; it’s as simple as that.
Hope he does get in.
We need him in parliament.
I’m good with all three rural independents especially after last night’s 7.30 interview. Katter’s reactionary cultural values don’t negate the positives about him: his dislike of Coles and Woollies for their attitude towards both producers and consumers, his rejection of One World Trade in favour of protecting certain sections of the economy especially those producing food. We’ll see.
In the meantime maybe we can get a “Katter’s Cowboys” float happening at the next Mardi Gras. I’m sure he’d like that.
Completely agree – where did you ever read me being supportive of Gillard and her rhetoric & policies? Bitterly disappointed in that area Mark.
@billie
“I am amazed Bill Shorten found a woman shorter than himself. Quentin Bryce always looks tall on TV.”
While I can’t see the relevance, Bill’s not particularly short. He’s between 175 and 180cm and since average height for a woman is around 165cm, that means there are plenty of women shorter than him. I have a photo of Bill and me at a wedding, I’m 166cm tall and he’s considerably taller than me.
And it doesn’t make it oK.
Who is calling it, Lefty E? The AEC? At this time, only 5% of the vote have been divided into 2 Candidate Preferred piles. It’s a bit premature.
@81 – I’m not saying it does make it ok, Helen.
Also – wasn’t meaning to imply you were backing Gillard’s stance on this stuff.
“On katter – I must confess I’m somehwat perversely a fan.”
Ditto. What you see is what you get with Bob and I have a lot more time for the ‘older school’ Nats who say what they believe, rather than those Liberal Party spivs who occasionally make some pleasing noises on their pet ‘wet liberal’ cause and try to present all middle-of-the-road.
If you believe in something, you stand up and say it, and then people go off and vote. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
d
Its the current AEC + ABC prediction, Sai Gon. Its certainly not confirmed – but the predictive software has switched sides
“On katter – I must confess I’m somehwat perversely a fan.”
Me too.
Sorry if what I was saying was taken to be an assessment of the man himself or his effectiveness for his electorate – I was more trying to tie his support in qualitatively with the north/south, city/country, educated/authentic, apparatchik/maverick dichotomies that constantly bubble up, and were briefly the topic on this thread.
I’m glad he’s in there, frankly. A mate who doesn’t follow politics much was yesterday assuming that the 3 ex-Nats would just fall in line with a coalition govt. I said nah mate, one of them’s Bob Katter. One thing he ain’t is predictable.
“Now the ABC computer has Labor on 73 – Coalition 70 (predicted 73) with 1 Green + 3 independents”
Yep! the ABC computer has officially changed it’s mind @10.58
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/
He should know:
Senior Party figures responded by putting their fingers in their ears and telling Morris to STFU.
The ABC’s predictive software is predicting a 2PP between Wilkie and Labor exactly identical to the 2PP from the 3 booths out of 56 which have been counted thus far. The software is junk.
I also got slightly sunburned for the Green cause on Saturday morning at Wellers Hill State School.
Green gone red already. See, I told ya.
KEN – Yeah, but Morris is also peddling the line that Julia did well, despite the problems around her. Which, of course, is total b.s.
Hey Grace, I was not particularly perturbed by your comment neither did I expected an apology backhanded or otherwise, rather tried to continue the pomo theme with my question, by appealing to some reflexivity.
As someone who has voted Green and preferenced Bob Katter in this election, I agree with Marks comment in relation to Bob K and the larger context of ‘urban – rural divide’ .
It is my opinion that the gift of this election outcome is, that we HAVE to take our time to talk about the issues that affect us as people, our land and our environment in more pragmatic and sincere terms than the cabaret that was afforded by the election campaign.
Correction to above ….talk about the issues that affect us as people, as well as our nation and environment.
Tony Abbott’s near triumphalism on Saturday night looks stupid now.
According to the very latest ABC predictions about a minute ago Labor has 73 seats, still. Luibs 70. 70 – 2 seats behind Labor. Not that Labor is likely to win the other 3, but if they did, its the magic number.
Interesting times.
A factor that hasn’t been discussed enough is the performance of the economy and in particular regional variations.
If you take a look at the state accounts, state final demand contracted in Queensland in the last quarter and barely grew over the past 12 months. In contrast, Victoria experienced rapid growth over the same period.
I don’t disagree that many of the factors that have been mentioned – poor messaging in the campaign, problems associated with Rudd’s dumping, climate policy, association with poor state governments, etc contributed to the very poor result in Queensland (Labor’s primary vote fell by nearly 9%!).
However, it also isn’t particularly surprising that Labor performed worse in the state that for all intents and purposes, has been in recession over the past 12 months.
IMHO we are in for a pretty unstable period in politics. Bother parties will have difficulties holing a minority government together, though for different reasons. Internally the ALP is a mess, while I just can’t see Abbott having the skills to negotiate his way through a minority government and an ALP/Green controlled Senate.
BTW – Oakshott went on public record in 2009 opposing the failure of the AFP to detain suspected East Tiorese militia member and war criminal Guy Campos.
It was him and the Greens alone, in Federal parliament.
He’s a player with clear integrity on range of issues – who can be classified easily.
cant be classified easily…
Yes, he seems to be in the Peter Andren mould to me.
@97 –
Indeed, LO, I strongly suspect there’s something in that.
I made the point on one of my Drumroll posts that business investment last quarter in Qld was barely in positive territory and way behind the national average. I’m sure the very sluggish economy here played a big part in a very poor Labor performance in Queensland. None of that has much to do with Kevin Rudd, or “leaks”, or “state issues”, of course.
It’s probably missed by the national commentariat because there’s some perception that we’re a “resources state” and thus strolling down streets paved with gold or something. That’s untrue – Queensland has a weak economic base outside mining and agriculture, on the whole. Historically, the Queensland economy has often been in recessionary territory for much longer than the rest of the country.
That’s probably a bigger causal factor in the extreme volatility of electoral behaviour in this state than some mythical “Queenslanders are different” thing.
The election “non-result” feels like the best expression yet in the community of the desire for a new politics.
Just as in the UK election, difficult circumstances around forming a government could deliver fundamental and long-lasting change.
The comments of the independents are encouraging and suggest a move to a less cynical politics that knots together the Big Picture with local concerns.
The shame so far is neither of the big parties seems to be getting the message from the electorate.
The Liberals still have no coherent agenda and are too busy back-slapping each other of a result which had everything to do with Labor’s implosion and nothing to do with their own efforts (other than Tony’s success in keeping a cork in it for five weeks).
Labor, meanwhile, are moving to their default position of getting the party spin machine to invent a new reality around the ouster of a government that had promised a new type of politics but which was too gutless and too self-interested to deliver.
Meanwhile, the final interest group – the media – remains as unreflective of their own role as ever – content merely to talk to the same old echo chamber of self-declared “insiders” and hacks.
Their whole world is falling apart and they don’t know it.
Katter’s protectionist views really are bizarre. He represents a rural electorate dependent on exports. Even if you thought the benefits of protection outweighed the costs for the nation as a whole, which sector does he think pays those costs?
Yep, he really is ignorant.
MR DENMORE – Totally right. Julia and her camarilla must be in a state of total denial about what has happened. Cognative dissonance is the only way they can go. So there is absolutely no chance they will learn from this debacle.
If the libs had any brains they would go for Malcolm and he would be PM in a year. But they don’t. More cognative dissonance.
So the only chance of real government and real reform will come from the independents. Thank God they look like they’ve got some balls.
Mr Gordon Pears, in a letter to the SMH today, writes:
It put a wintery smile on my face, as I watched a flock of piglets flapping past my window.
Based on some of the comments here, I just watched Kerry O’Brien’s interview.
Remarkable. I can’t remember the last time I felt such a sense of sheer enjoyment in watching politicians. Intelligence, humour, apparent integrity and, more than anything perhaps, naturalness. It’s so refreshing as to be almost shocking.
Let’s hope Mr Denmore is onto something. If these guys keep it together, perhaps there’ll be a genuine alternative to the high artifice that’s increasingly come to characterise party politics.
Hard to see it doing any harm, that’s for sure.
An interesting coversation between Helen, Fran and others and Mark, on Katter’s remarks.
I could have concurred with them if he had said that Australian communities and the Australian community itself, were being buried under the weight of neoliberal globalisation, but saying being buried under a flood of foreign arrivals is crass, its not refugees or migrants that are the problem but the US and capitalist variation or globalisation.
But I suppose he’s talking to his vast and remote constituency in ways that that they and he relate to that a re different in form to the conversational modes we city-ites woud use.
Nice Fiona. And I just want Tory Rabbit to take on Ministry for Boat Stopping. No pressure but 3 boats and he is out.
Mike Said of the independents:
While I accept that this is the vernacular term for the possession of a robust attitude to the attainment of some object, (i.e. determination) this is a site where we consider the extent to which language we use is properly inclusive. One does doubt that the mere possession of testes has much to do with their willingness to pursue their own policy priorities in the face of system constraints, as strongly uttered as this position is in lore. Would one deny, for example that Maggie Thatcher or Golda meir or Indira Ghandi had commitment to their ends, the lack of testes notwithstanding?
I will grant you however that if one allows the creationist view, then God may indeed be responsible for the configuration of their anatomies. Whether it is apt to thank the deity for this is another matter. Presumably, if it exists, it knows your sentiments as well as you nad won’t be relying on them in its future actions.
Goos summary, Mr Denmore. In this context it was refreshing to see the three independents managing to communicate to the elctorate in a manner largely devoid of spin.
All the usual suspects will continue to maintain that it’s business as usual for as long or maybe longer than is humanely possible. The media has as much to lose from the existing cosy relationships and their manufactured insider status, so most of the political hacks will also be blind to the obvious.
Dont worry, 105, the real worries start when its blue snakes.
dd 103, hopefully the mining tax.
These places you consign to the rubbish tip are actually large communities of human beings, who dont like seeing themselves cut out of alivelihood, to suit agri business, monoculturing and appropriation of food cropping land in third world countries for cash crops local oligarchs and big corporations outside of these countries who are not about when the famines start again.
Im not just sayng this cos I haet Tones: but – objectively – I just cant see how rural indepdentns could say no to the NBN. its a once in a generation opportoutnity to cut regioanl Australia back in to progress and development, and to substanitally correct 20+ years of econoic rationalism.
It really kis. It WONT MATTER how shit Tesltra phone coverage is once there’s NBN, as phone services can piggy back that as well.
I see the WA Nat guy is sying he’d back labor if they dump the mining tax! LOL!
Mr Denmore, let us hope the media can also rise to the challenge, for their own sake really. After this election I have enough confidence into the Australian public for them to bin any narcissistic and blatant commercial or ideological interest where it belongs, for the benefit of the nation. Providers of independent and relevant as well as reflective news and commentary, such as offered on this site, may get a boon out of this waiting game.
paul of albury@77, you are facing the wrong way, please read my first comment@17.
Ootz@94: now worries, and for the record, I am a long-time Katter-watcher, and well appreciate the work that he puts in covering half of Queensland.
I also enjoy his creative use of language, pomo or not, and killer observations like, “flying foxes are going to kill many more people than taipans”, suggesting to me that in a round-about way Katter gets climate change, which is more than can be said for ALP party hacks like Mark Arbib and Karl Bitar.
@grace pettigrew, Kattar is on the record as a climate change skeptic – “I mean, if you could imagine 20 or 30 crocodiles up there on the roof, and if all that roof was illumination, and saying that we wouldn’t see anything in this room because of a few croco-roaches up there. Are you telling me seriously that the world is going to warm because there’s 400 parts per million of CO2 up there?”
source
Saying he “gets it” is … about as sensible as his statement quoted here.
The other two independents, on the other hand, do seem to get it.
LeftyE @ 112 – I think you’re probably correct, but there is more to telecommunications than the NBN. Mobile coverage for example could be helped by having more fibre around as a backbone, but you still need to put up a lot more towers than the telcos think is profitable. You’ll have to give them a bucket of money to provide better coverage.
Also a lot of the issues that I’d heard mentioned could be solved without going FTTH if Abbott wanted to do it on the cheap. Eg – run fibre to the major buildings like hospitals, and do FTTN and/or upgrade exchanges elsewhere.
Once one of the majors form a minority government – if and when there is a by-election in a non-safe seat – imagine all the possibilities!!
And who said politics was dull?
114, damnable agents, flying foxes..
Rebekka Sometimes we’d wish he’d tone it down a bit but… In what way? You know people outside don’t quite understand him.
Grace, re Flying Foxes and Taipans (cough).
However, I am sure as hell want Bob in the seat when it comes to explaining AGW to the locals, once he realises it increases the risk of Degue Fever and possibility of malaria outbreaks.
Rebekka, Sometimes we’d wish he’d tone it down a bit but… In what way? You know people outside don’t quite understand him.
Grace, re Flying Foxes and Taipans (cough).
However, I am sure as hell want Bob in the seat when it comes to explaining AGW to the locals, once he realises it increases the risk of Degue Fever and possibility of malaria outbreaks.
“once he realises it increases the risk of Degue Fever and possibility of malaria outbreaks.”
You mean if he realises it exists.
re Flying Foxes
However, I am sure as hell want Bob in the seat when it comes to explaining AGW to the locals, once he realises it increases the risk of Degue Fever and possibility of malaria outbreaks.
Sorry had to break it into two to avoid moderation!
Fran, they could try:
” Thank God they look like they’ve got some ovaries”.
But does a boot to the ovaries mean the same thing as a size twelve in the, err, testes?
There just doesn’t seem to be same resonance, to me.
If only our semantics expert, Pavlovs Cat, was up and about..
Have we forgotten Katter’s reference to “little slanty-eyed ideologues” during the 1996 election campaign?
Grace@114, I think I took your original comment as you meant it, as truly impressed and therefore not needing any apology. But in the course of your unnecessary apology you seemed to betray an unwarranted prejudice against people ‘west of the divide’. Or are you in fact west of the divide yourself?
Derrida derider: he also represents an electorate with agricultural industries that used to be protected from international and interstate competition. For instance, he mentions the dairy industry in this interview on AM.
Paul, doubt that will come up again. For example one of my neighbour and Katter man is a self styled Cattle King with business interests all over Asia and his wife is from the Philippines. Times are a changing …
Paul Walter said:
Except that they could’t say that because
a) it would invite derision on physiological and theological grounds
b) ovaries aren’t culturally associated with courage
which latter is the very point about the testes. Other versions involve cojones or nads. Courage, in common discourse, is about male hormones and a defining property of masculinity. Courageous/strong females, when they occur, are seen as rejecting their archetype sex-identity and acquiring masculinity.
Ootz, once again, you mean if he realises it exists.
Which bit of Kattar being a climate change denialist are you not getting?
None of the four parties will be able to help Kattar. If the ALP can form government with the support of Windsor, Oakeshott and Bandt then that will suffice. (Unstable enough without entering into a conversation with Kattar.)
Is there some point being made with this misspelling of Bob Katter’s name?
Or is it just a mistake?
FBD, they confuse him with a sheikdom on the Arabian peninsular.
Geez, hope I don’t get 129 AND a missive from PC.
Wish I’d shut up, now.
Two would be too much, am quitting while behind, as they say.
Fran:
I think you will find many studies show that testosterone, a hormone largely produced by the testes, is often correlated with aggression. The bull is more aggressive than the female cow, the ram is more aggressive than the ewe, the buck is more aggressive than the doe.
Men that take anabolic steroids (testosterone or other male hormones) often become more aggressive.
As such the terms “balls” to describe the trait of assertiveness is appropriate.
Katter. My mistake, FDB.
Yep, also my mistake.
I’m aware, of all this Davey. My concern was about the mapping of this to matters that have little to do with hormonally-driven aggressive conduct and the tendency of this mapping to perpetuate non-inclusive language inter alia, in politics.
These days, one assumes that women, their want of testes notwithstanding, may prove as determined about policy matters as their testosterone-motivated counterparts. Women are no wusses.*
* [internetz protocol] intentional irony
All good. Just don’t like things flying over my head!
Fran: Women or men’s wusiness should be judged on a case by case basis, irrespective of gender. No one should be presumed to be a a coward or brave by whether they are male or female.
Despite that, I believe *on average* men are less wussy and more aggressive than women. Which is probably part of the reason why they on average earn more.
Great. Gender thread derail. Thanks.
Back on topic, please!
Derail counter!
Q and A tonight will be interesting: Tony Windsor, Malcolm Turnbull, Sarah Hanson-Young, Mark Arbib, Janet Albrechtsen and Graham Richardson.
Shame about Albrechtsen, but you can’t win em all.
Davey
On the off chance you are being tongue-in-cheek, perhaps trying for a Poe’s Law I am going to say … uh … huh …
If not, you are seriously missing the key point here. Why not have a crack at explaining what is wrong with the configuration your claim above and the substantive point you seem to be asserting?
Fair enough Kim … posts crossed …
Look Rebekka, re Katter, I am not claiming he is walking on water, he is a politician afterall. It is just that me and the large majority of the Kennedy electorate prefer him to a two timing party apparatchik. As I stated I voted green first and Katter second, because I am sick and tired of the antics and insincerity of main parties. So are a rapidly a growing number of other Ausralians. it appears. The quicker the so called main parties get it, the quicker we can progress with issues such as Global warming.
Why is Graham Richardson on Q&A every second week. The guy gives me the irrits.
Ootz, I have no problem with the majority of his electorate prefering him. He’s clearly a good local politician.
That doesn’t mean he isn’t a climate change denier, however.
Re Q&A, I thought the same thing. With him, Arbib and planet Janet on the same show, I think I’ll have an early night.
148, 146, wasn’t talking about Katter as a climate denier, he was saying he’s got up because many are fed up more with the insincerity of the majors, than failings on a given issue.
Now this I did not know – Quentin Bryce is Bill Shorten’s mother-in-law and is seeking advice re her constitutional position.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/23/2991086.htm?section=justin
And Arbib has probably wisely withdrawn from this evening’s Q&A……. ooooorrrrrhhhhh no!
Boo! I was looking forward at yelling at the screen with Arbib on!
Very good point, Mark. Another industry of regional importance along the lengthy coastline is tourism. I read somewhere that FNQ in particular had suffered unemployment from a big decline in inbound tourist demand – ironically, the one component of the GFC that the Rudd economic measures could not sandbag all that easily.
The Gittins articla linked above by Joe2 sums it up perfectly. I am tired of the if we’d had Rudd, if Gillard hadn’t been leak-damaged in mid-campaign type of arguments. Labor must not miss this occasion for excising the NSW Right toxicity.
The simplest rule of politics is that you do have a set of values and beliefs and you stand for these – a lot must be negotiated and dealt with but you don’t abandon everything that gets sticky for middle-of-the-road voters or marginals- residing swingers.
The perfect example, of course, is this trio of independents, all of whom have long abandoned the Nationals playbook.
None of us welcomed this result beforehand, but if an agreement can be reached, we may yet get accountable government, and Labor careerists might learn a very good lesson from the independents.
I did not realise until this election how wise the founding fathers of the constitution were. They have left us a very short document that is able to grow and evolve as society changes. It does not mention the Prime Minister but if it did, it would not be the leader of a party. It would be the leader of elected members that have the majority on the floor of the lower house. It does not mention parties either. Just goes to prove how far sighted they were. It is the members elected by the people who count not the leader or party. They have set the bar very high to bring about any change to the constitution.
“Now this I did not know – Quentin Bryce is Bill Shorten’s mother-in-law and is seeking advice re her constitutional position.”
The ALP really should have thought of that before appointing her as Shorto’s mother in law!
But seriously – just sack Shorto. Problem solved.
‘But seriously – just sack Shorto. Problem solved. ;’
Actually two problems solved.
paul of albury@: yes, of course I am west of the divide, so what, secondly, any “apology” is entirely your own invention, thirdly, get your funny bone checked, and finally, BORED, over and out.
Traditionally, aren’t mother-in-laws supposed to make their son-in-laws’ lives a misery?
Well, the best for Shorto personally might be an Abbott govt – then he’s odds on for ALP leader!
So, its not clear exactly what certain MSM commentators are imputing!
Scurrilously, I might add. Back off the GG, ya punks!
According to ABC radio news this arvo, Arbib has been withdrawn from the Q&A line-up, by the ALP.
I wonder why?
Nobody has mentioned Bob Menzies yet . A review of his electoral fortunes saw him dumped twice in similar situations and came back. Howard did the same.
I want to put it on record now , Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull were surrounded by Jelly backs who crumbled at the first sniff of cordite.
both Kevin and Malcolm have the Strength of character to come back strongly in the not too distant future. I hope Julia survives the pressure the right wing is putting on her.
The FIA were fanatical catholic anti communist who operate now as the AWU, They get into bed with the Corporations and Big Tobacco, Big Coal and big steel and Iron finally called in favours to depose Rudd as a threat to both corporate and Union common interest. Mark these words , they could be wrong but past history across the world has seen this scenario come about over and over again. It is never immediately apparent but you buck corporations and you will pay the price.
Most of the heavy industrial dramas on TV end up being Documentaries ten years ahead of their time.
paul @ 150, I was responding to Grace Pettigrew’s assertion that Katter “gets” climate change.
One of the funnier comments on Twitter re: Arbib not appearing on QANDA was this man is faceless, so we can’t show you his face on television
Love it, wish I’d thought of it …
Fran I got a good laugh on the twit saying for the empty chair to be truly representative it should be spinning.
Was surprised there was no question to Planet about the abysmal role the media played in election2010 . Only Tony Windsor brought it up, but there was no follow up.
Is anyone out there discussing it or god forbid holding them to account? What a sensible thing to do while we wait. Even as to stop them from baying for a speedy outcome so they can continue with BAU.
Derrida Derider (on 103):
Try looking at Katter’s position from that of a resident of North Queensland. Over a century ago, when all the the Australian states were still colonies, much of what is now called “protectionism” was imposed from London. That “protectionism” was British Empire protectionism and it included molly-coddling the huge pastoral conglomerates, wrapping the horribly inefficient sugar plantations with their black-birded labour in cotton-wool and all sorts of other nasties imposed from 12 000 miles away. Taking just ONE of many examples, the locals fought fire with fire and destroyed the sugar plantation system by building high-tech central sugar mills run by co-operatives of small farmers and by having them supplied by free unindentured workers who were paid money for their work; the plantations just could not compete and went broke. Then, a century later, the cult of “Privatizatrion at Any Cost” was imposed from afar (this time from New York, Sydney and Canberra). It didn’t matter one little bit how efficient an enterprise or an industry was or if any inefficiencies could be abolished with simple legislative and regulatory changes or if great potential cvould be realized at the stroke of a pen, “Privatization at Any Cost” was imposed by distant fanatics and to hell with the consequences. For most people actually living in North Queensland, the real costs of these privatization follies are right in their faces and it is their pockets that are hurt by these unnecessary costs.
The viewers of commercial TV shock-jock shows and some metropolitan undergraduates desire and promote the image of people in North Queensland as a bunch of ignorant boagans and Hansonites, all hell-bent on protectionizm and opposed to normal markets and frightened of anything at all invented after Federation …. however, out in the real world, North Queenslanders are nothing at all like that negative stereotype.
Just be very very grateful that Bob Katter is speaking up for North Queensland as a member of the Australian federal parliament …. because the inevitable alternative is that the people of all of northern Australia will excise that cancer below the Tropic of Capricorn (or 22 degrees South, take your pick) and declare their Independence …. and then get to enjoy all the wealth of THEIR own country for a change.
Sublime Cowgirl (way back at 67):
Thought-provoking comment.
How can we fight intolerance in others when we fail to recognize – and correct – our very own intolerance?
Ootz (on 164):
Surely you don’t expect the near-monopoly “news(??)” media to tell us exactly how anti-democratic and deliberately misinformative they are, do you?
John Ward: I didn’t realise that the AWU took on the old Federated Ironworkers. That is making a lot more sense now.
Graham, I am off the drugs, I have not bought or read any ‘news(??)’ publication for years and my doc tells me I have excellent bloodpressure and my ‘vision’ is better than ever.
Btw thanks for 74 and 165 right on
The secession grumbling are not a joke. I may repeat myself, but last week in the local rag, the local labor state representative was spitting the dummy and asked where we think the money is coming from for the infrastructure and that, if we dont like it we can go and live in brisvegas and enjoy their traffic jams, because the shire mayors from uphere voted four against two to push for a referendum to split from S E Queensland.
FDB – 139: Is there some point being made with this misspelling of Bob Katter’s name?
Funny I ended up here after some strangely circular googling. According to Barry Jones, Katter’s Lebanese family name was originally transcribed Kat’r – and his father, Bob Katter Sr, was Kahlil Gibran’s cousin.
Or Kellogs Allbran, as my uncle used to call him to make my sister and I laugh when we were little.