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30 responses to “Moving Forward”

  1. Ruth

    Once politicians and other leaders in our community feel they can reveal more of themselves and have a more spontaneous and revealing conversation with people using new technologies not only will our cynicism diminish but people will re-engage with, participate in and value our politicians and the political process.

    Until they learn that we will all have to settle for more of the same.

    And please, please MPs when you decide to adopt these new ways of communicating, don.t just employ a 20-something year old to do it for you – we can tell!

  2. Mercurius

    Nice post, Anna!

  3. Ian Milliss

    There is also a sense in which politics reverts to something like the old street corner rally where they need to be interesting, polemical and capable of dealing with some ferocious heckling.

  4. Link

    I really liked this up until:

    There’s so much potential for political parties, who are more and more thought to be hollow, soulless things, to allow their MPs to show what they actually believe in and engage with people. Soundbites were useful when someone else controlled how much time you had to make your point, but now there’s no limit to how long MPs can spend arguing their case.

    God what a downer. No only joking. It’s a great piece, very thought provoking. Although image tribes to me sounds a bit problematic, both to identify and reach.

  5. Link

    I get it. It troubles me because they are hollow, soul-less ‘things’. I don’t want to fucking encourage them.

  6. Simon

    The old broadcast sound-bite style still has by far the biggest reach. It’s diminishing every day, getting nibbled at by the forces you identify, but for the moment it’s still king.

    And that’s why it’s such a hard time to be in politics. You still have to play the old game, but you now have this new game being played against you by unseen, disparate forces.

  7. David Irving (no relation)

    Jesus! The sight of Abbott fondling the camo cloth is really disturbing. He and la Mirabella both look like they’ve got hard-ons.

  8. Mercurius

    Ugh. @7 I need brain bleach after that remark.

    On the OP, I guess some evidence to support McLuhan’s original contention that “technology changes us in ways that are irrelevant to content”, is that his message/media are being co-opted today by people who would share not a skerrick of his own radically Catholic and socially conservative personal values…

  9. tigtog

    Like you, Anna, I’m fascinated by the way that “image tribes” (new phrase to me, ta) are cropping up and engaging with media content in sophisticated ways – I find that folks who a few years ago had no idea what blogs were talking about are now reposting sociopolitical memes on their Facebook pages and critiquing away, even though they still are most likely not reading poliblogs. It’s most encouraging.

  10. Todd

    It is a nice idea however it comes up against the hard reality of politics like previously mentioned the old ways still play. A lot of older people do not use there computers and rely on the traditional media for their political coverage. I don’t know if you have noticed but the oldest crop of regular computer users are only just reaching their 30′s so that is only 18-35 the 35+ don’t, but the main stream media will grab a particularly controversial or embarrassing 10 sec sound bite and play that for the 35+ market. End result until a large majority of people stop relying on mass media for political information political techniques won’t change. The maxim stay on message and say as little as possible as demonstrated by our underwhelming previous Federal election will remain.

  11. Fine

    Todd, I think that’s vast over-generalisation. I’m 50 and use a variety of media for news and communication. Sometimes, it’s what’s quaintly referred to as ‘heritage media’. Sometimes it’s on-line sites, Facebook, blogs etc. The people I know in my age group are the same. I think it may be more accurate to say that the under 30 age group are more strongly wedded to social media and don’t see the point of the older forms. But, of course, even that’s a generalisation.

  12. Mercurius

    LOL @10 and @11…

    more accurate to say that the under 30 age group are more strongly wedded to social media

    Yerbut….which social media?

    It’s more like what tigtog was getting at @9…

    ‘Nobody’ (sic) under 30 uses Twitter or blogs…they are developing new means of sociopolitical discussion. Those meddling kids are coming up with their own codes of communication…who’d a thunk it!?

    Whereas blogs have been captured by the age group who actually read text (ie. 35+), and Twitter by PR agents and the white-collar/management crowd (30+). The Dalai Lama and Rupert Murdoch now Tweet, so I’d say Twitter is officially ovah (if it ever began) as far as anyone under 30 is concerned…

    I don’t know if you have noticed but the oldest crop of regular computer users are only just reaching their 30′s…

    Lolwut? So everyone who works in an office, school or hospital is under 30, are they? I don’t know if you have noticed but the *youngest* crop of regular LP users are just barely still in their 30′s, many if not most of the regulars on LP are well north of 50, never mind 40, never mind 18-35…

  13. David Irving (no relation)

    Todd, I recently turned 61, and consider myself to be reasonably wired. (I don’t use Twitter.) I’ve been using computers as a tool of trade for over 30 years.

    For the record, I like the result of our most recent Federal election – the adults are in charge, for a change.

  14. akn

    Agree with most of your comments, Anna. Your take on the emergence of ‘image tribes’ is interesting although I’m not so sanguine about their potential to expand democratic engagement and reinvigorate democracy. I think the initial moment in the development of the ‘image tribe’ may well have been when Islamic fundamentalists started ‘youtubing’ footage of beheadings, stonings and whippings.

    This perspective opens the door to the shadow side of ‘the tribe’ which is that it does not sustain subjectivities fit to inhabit a democratic polis. The tribe entails a form of communal consciousness that is antithetical to liberal individualist thinking and forms of being. So, while I agree that these ‘tribes’ are significant I am politically opposed to ceding them any form of legitimacy unless they can demonstrate clear commitments to democratic purposes. Getup, for example, is legitimate but communities of association that violate democratic rules of procedure (roughly – equality of voice and presence in all public and private domains) or whose stated intentions are opposed to democracy are illegitimate in the political sphere.

    Cheers.

  15. Mindy

    I don’t know if you have noticed but the oldest crop of regular computer users are only just reaching their 30′s

    Oh Todd this gave me the best *snort* I’ve had today. Now, get off my lawn.

  16. akn

    Well, as you say:

    Despite fears that the internet is alienating us from the world, it is actually giving us the means to re-create the ancient polis…

    I read you to mean here that this was a good thing in general. My point is that increased democratic participation is not in and of itself a good thing except that it does conform to the rules of democratic discourse. Enhancing and advancing democracy, the only worthwhile political project left to progressive social movements, entails rejection of all forms of relativism when it comes to who can participate and what are the limits of participation in the polis. Communities of interest unable to let go of tribal consciousness and embrace democratic virtues have no letitimacy in the political sphere.

  17. paul walter

    Well, I just take it to be a warning of the price of freedom type.
    You want to be a part of your community, debate with your fellow citizens at the Agora on substantial issues relating to your community, then you must be able to get reliable information quickly, hence much of the anger at old style media for cost cutting and dumbing down on content to avoid offending vested interests.
    It is quite rewarding to stay one step ahead of the the rubes, with their Murdoch, Alan Jones, etc.
    But to do this you have to have the wherewithall to grasp that information is relevant and what information is relevant, then it makes sense to embark on the painful stuff involved in learning to use computers and their applications.
    A dozen years ago I had no computer; shunned them like the plague, like a good Luddite.
    I remember years ago when this current techno revolution was taking off, watching Kerry O’ Brien waffling on about broadband and so forth, couldn’t figure out what he meant, like the person living a century ago on the verge of watching motor cards, telephones, radios and aircraft revolutionise life. The life I live now I wouldn’t have understood a decade ago and the sight of me employing a pc rather than the ABC as fist source for info and analysis would have the Paul Walter of a dozen years ago laughing on the floor, at the thought of how things are nowadays.
    Finally, DINR at 7 has dealt with the Abbott pr*n event, that leaves me with Ed Millband.
    Ed Millband.
    What can you say… Ed Millbland, the Milton Keynes answer to metrosexuality, a metrosexuality that overpowers even that of Rudd or Blair combined.
    Back to computers. I have the same feeling about them as I used to have about the Ad Uni BarrSmith library. That you you could get locked up the place for a million years and not even scratch the surface, as to the mine of info available in such a place.

  18. Patrickb

    ” It’s a way of reaching “image tribes” and communicating a more complex message to a smaller but more receptive audience. ”
    Well if this is emerging then it’s taking a very long time. This year’s US presidential campaign appears to following familiar lines, that is large sums of money poured in ads placed in traditional media.
    And lets not forget what Mcluhan said
    “We look at the present through a rear-view mirror. We march backwards into the future.”
    which would appear to be what is happening to these new media. Once considered the province of nerds, hackers and assorted misfits the internet is now deployed into the homes of the middle class for their mediocre entertainment. So safe it is that politicians employ cohorts of keen young staffers to tweet for them (oh the inanity!). Like most of the intellectual class we appear to have missed this one as well. Sorry Anne, it was all over by about 2001.

  19. Patrickb

    Many apologies, I have a cousin Anne so it’s force of habit.

  20. Mat

    Very disappointed in Ed Miliband. For a while there, I thought he might actually lead UK Labor a touch away from its “New Labour” image of a party which cared about nothing but (re)election. So much for wanting “capitalism that works for the people”.

  21. David Irving (no relation)

    I love the Barr Smith library, paul. I always feel like a kid in a sweet shop.

  22. FDB

    “We look at the present through a rear-view mirror. We march backwards into the future”

    Klee’s Angelus Novus bites us all on the arse once more.

    Arse-backwards, as it were.

  23. FDB

    Oh, and Todd…

    I’m 37, I’m not old!

  24. paul walter

    yep, DInr, 24, that puts it so better than I did.
    Mat, when they say they want “capitalism to work for the people”, they actually mean they want us to work for it- like crack whores preferably- and you should be greatful for the lash when it drops, cos then you know you are alive.

  25. Nick

    @FDB

    It’s the first time I’ve seen that image, so I might be way off base…

    But does this description by Walter Benjamin seem like a bit of a stretch to you? How does the ‘new angel’ (eyes darting about in fear, awkward and momentary, silly phobia about falling on your arse), become the ‘angel of history’ (fixedly contemplating, single catastrophe, piling wreckage upon wreckage, storm of progress etc)? I get the ‘falling into the new, trying to catch hold of the past for support’…but it is suggesting you get over this quickly enough, yes? Not that you’re resigned to it…

    By way of proof of sorts, I’d cite kids innate ability to use iPads, the indignation of the ‘oldies’ in response to Todd…and just possibly Billy Bob Thornton’s intriguing phobia of antique furniture (really not sure how that last one fits yet, but can’t stop thinking about it!)…

  26. FDB

    Yeah Nick, I was referring more to Benjamin’s interpretation than anything else. And uncritically too.

    I actually saw and loved the picture before reading WB, and always thought of the Angel as more tragi-comic, stumbling from crisis to novel crisis, than just plain tragic as he does.

    The soundtrack to Benjamin’s viewing would be this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=170VZGFoTKg

    For mine, this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

    Actually, the picture kinda fits too.

  27. Nick

    :) Yep.

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