One of the most horrendous moments in music has to be anything involving the great rage of the 80s, the collaborative save the starving Live Aid type songs. Ken Parish once criticised:
that sad, self-promoting old wanker Bob Geldof spruiking a re-recorded pseudo-celebrity version of that appalling song Do They Know It’s Christmas?
The latest Live Aid effort seeks to end world poverty, an ambitious aim indeed. But this praiseworthy music fest is running into difficulty. The BBC vetoed a Spice Girls reunion performance, despite the fact that they first needed to solve Spice Girls politics before bringing about world peace:
“I spoke to them this morning and it’s looking very good,” Sir Bob said. “There’s a lot of stuff they have got to sort through. They are trying to resolve differences of many years.”
Apparently:
The group have been dropped from the line-up because their music is incompatible with the serious political message the event wants to get across.
Unlike Robbie Williams, Mariah Carey and Dido, I guess.
The troubled event has also been subject to a complaint from an anti-racist group that the lineup is “almost hideously white”.
For christ’s sake, what is the big deal? Just let them have the damn concert already. It raises money, who cares whos singing.
For christ’s sake, what is the big deal? Just let them have the damn concert already. It raises money, who cares whos singing.
I always think the real peopel playing the self serving game are those who can’t wait to criticse “sad old wankers” who are accomplishing more in the area than they even could or would and jump on the cynicism bangwagon just for sake of it. If the net effect is even the slightest bit of good, the slighted raised awareness in one person, then I am all for it.
I always think the real peopel playing the self serving game are those who can’t wait to criticse “sad old wankers” who are accomplishing more in the area than they even could or would and jump on the cynicism bangwagon just for sake of it. If the net effect is even the slightest bit of good, the slighted raised awareness in one person, then I am all for it.
I agree with Amanda’s comments. Though if some of these big successful artists have a pound or two (or a few thousand) to spare, in addition, they should put their money where their questionable music is and donate it directly to worthy causes!
I agree with Amanda’s comments. Though if some of these big successful artists have a pound or two (or a few thousand) to spare, in addition, they should put their money where their questionable music is and donate it directly to worthy causes!
that alleged anti-racist group sounds horribly racist
that alleged anti-racist group sounds horribly racist
I agree with Aamanda and Guy. Just as the road to hell is paved with good intentions, so the road to good can often have a soundtrack from hell. If only one life was saved, then it’s worth any amount of freaked out music critics and destroying Sir Bob’s credibility as a solo artist (whch is not an unlaudable outcome in itself).
And I’d like to know how many millions of pounds Black Information Link expect to raise for their brothers and sisters starving abroad.
I agree with Aamanda and Guy. Just as the road to hell is paved with good intentions, so the road to good can often have a soundtrack from hell. If only one life was saved, then it’s worth any amount of freaked out music critics and destroying Sir Bob’s credibility as a solo artist (whch is not an unlaudable outcome in itself).
And I’d like to know how many millions of pounds Black Information Link expect to raise for their brothers and sisters starving abroad.
I will not hear a word said against Robbie Williams. The man is a genius. Not a musical genius mind, but a genius nevertheless.
I will not hear a word said against Robbie Williams. The man is a genius. Not a musical genius mind, but a genius nevertheless.
Watching Live Aid 1983 was an unforgettable moment. The affective atmosphere in that stadium, even at 13,000 miles, was literally palpable. I had been in London the Christmas of the single release and it was a poignant backdrop in the streets as people shopped for the festivities with the recently viewed TV images of the dying in Africa in their minds.
Geldof’s initiative was an immediate jolt to the generosity of the fortunate and became a model that has been succesfully repeated since.
It’d take someone with a very potent poetic spirit to succesfully mock it.
Watching Live Aid 1983 was an unforgettable moment. The affective atmosphere in that stadium, even at 13,000 miles, was literally palpable. I had been in London the Christmas of the single release and it was a poignant backdrop in the streets as people shopped for the festivities with the recently viewed TV images of the dying in Africa in their minds.
Geldof’s initiative was an immediate jolt to the generosity of the fortunate and became a model that has been succesfully repeated since.
It’d take someone with a very potent poetic spirit to succesfully mock it.
And as for the sad, self-promoting wankers who were saying that the line-up was hideously white, what was their point? What colour should the line-up be?
And as for the sad, self-promoting wankers who were saying that the line-up was hideously white, what was their point? What colour should the line-up be?
I think the thing is that the middle of the road boring pop music the line-up represents is:
a) made by white people; and
b) listened to by white people;
c) as is the vast majority of mainstream pop music with the exception of;
d) rap and r’n'b and can you imagine Bob Geldof asking 50 cent or Nelly to be in ‘Live Aid’?; and
e) it’s the middle class well-off folks they’re hitting up for cash with the whole thing anyway.
I think the thing is that the middle of the road boring pop music the line-up represents is:
a) made by white people; and
b) listened to by white people;
c) as is the vast majority of mainstream pop music with the exception of;
d) rap and r’n'b and can you imagine Bob Geldof asking 50 cent or Nelly to be in ‘Live Aid’?; and
e) it’s the middle class well-off folks they’re hitting up for cash with the whole thing anyway.
Kate, I think 50 Cent is actually playing in Philadelphia, along with Jay-Z.
Kate, I think 50 Cent is actually playing in Philadelphia, along with Jay-Z.
Sweet irony! Saintly is right judging by the Live 8 website.
Museum of Art, Philadelphia
* Will Smith (host)
* Bon Jovi
* Maroon 5
* P Diddy
* Stevie Wonder
* Jay-Z
* The Dave Matthews Band
* Sarah McLachlan
* Rob Thomas
* Keith Urban
* 50 Cent
* Kaiser Chiefs
Sweet irony! Saintly is right judging by the Live 8 website.
Museum of Art, Philadelphia
* Will Smith (host)
* Bon Jovi
* Maroon 5
* P Diddy
* Stevie Wonder
* Jay-Z
* The Dave Matthews Band
* Sarah McLachlan
* Rob Thomas
* Keith Urban
* 50 Cent
* Kaiser Chiefs
.. and as a middle-class, upper-income, middle-aged, middle of the road almost dead white male, may I lodge an official protest – I do not want some black rappers called 50 Cent (couldn’t they think of a real name) playing at the Museum of Art in dear old Philly. And I don’t care if it’s for a good cause. Standards are standards.
.. and as a middle-class, upper-income, middle-aged, middle of the road almost dead white male, may I lodge an official protest – I do not want some black rappers called 50 Cent (couldn’t they think of a real name) playing at the Museum of Art in dear old Philly. And I don’t care if it’s for a good cause. Standards are standards.
Personally I’d be happy if the organisers picked some more contemporary artists. Even the choice of the Spice Girls shows how dated it all is. Let’s face it, it’s music not political action. And it’s legitimate to question how much good these sort of events do – they almost never take a political stand – ie attack the structural and political causes of poverty or hunger. They tend just to pick up on a sort of diffused sentiment of general niceness which really makes little difference in the longer term. I don’t deny there are some beneficial effects in the short term.
Personally I’d be happy if the organisers picked some more contemporary artists. Even the choice of the Spice Girls shows how dated it all is. Let’s face it, it’s music not political action. And it’s legitimate to question how much good these sort of events do – they almost never take a political stand – ie attack the structural and political causes of poverty or hunger. They tend just to pick up on a sort of diffused sentiment of general niceness which really makes little difference in the longer term. I don’t deny there are some beneficial effects in the short term.
some black rappers called 50 Cent (couldn?Äôt they think of a real name)
Unlike U2. Must have been an early precursor of the degradation of the English language by sms.
some black rappers called 50 Cent (couldn?Äôt they think of a real name)
Unlike U2. Must have been an early precursor of the degradation of the English language by sms.
“Let?Äôs face it, it?Äôs music not political action.” I predicted this response, Mark, in my latest post. Suffice to say here that I do not think you can be more wrong.
“Let?Äôs face it, it?Äôs music not political action.” I predicted this response, Mark, in my latest post. Suffice to say here that I do not think you can be more wrong.
Oh, dear, wbb, I hadn’t realised that I was part of this group:
I certainly agree with you that the aim is noble. I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. Forgive my scepticism but I’m unconvinced at the ability of this sort of event to put pressure on the G8. A demo, serious attempts to educate, agitate and organise, and a political campaign might. Something that’ll be televised and viewed in the categories of “pop culture” and “media event” may not. We’ll see.
Oh, dear, wbb, I hadn’t realised that I was part of this group:
I certainly agree with you that the aim is noble. I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. Forgive my scepticism but I’m unconvinced at the ability of this sort of event to put pressure on the G8. A demo, serious attempts to educate, agitate and organise, and a political campaign might. Something that’ll be televised and viewed in the categories of “pop culture” and “media event” may not. We’ll see.
Even if it does, wbb, I doubt further that it will challenge the deep reasons why in our system the global South earns 4% of the world’s income. Aid still has a certain paternalistic and neo-colonial tinge, and it’s not enough, frankly. I also wish to be heretical and take leave to doubt that Bob Geldof and Bono really understand this.
Even if it does, wbb, I doubt further that it will challenge the deep reasons why in our system the global South earns 4% of the world’s income. Aid still has a certain paternalistic and neo-colonial tinge, and it’s not enough, frankly. I also wish to be heretical and take leave to doubt that Bob Geldof and Bono really understand this.
I am also very uncertain of its chances too, Mark. But I will always support people who have a go. The idea that ageing pop stars are, by definition, objects of ridicule is beguiling, but we, all of us, can be placed in a category of derision. The thing is to show solidarity to those who share our aims. And Live 8 is a demo. It is educational. It is organised and it is agitation.
All tailored to the sadly mass-media Big Brother watching world we live in. This stuff has to be on the box and has to be entertaining. That’s the idiom. Otherwise you are crying in the wilderness.
And, at worst, it is complementary with every other positive initiative. (Wish I could think of them.) I don’t understand the urge to denigrate mainstream actions of this type.
I am also very uncertain of its chances too, Mark. But I will always support people who have a go. The idea that ageing pop stars are, by definition, objects of ridicule is beguiling, but we, all of us, can be placed in a category of derision. The thing is to show solidarity to those who share our aims. And Live 8 is a demo. It is educational. It is organised and it is agitation.
All tailored to the sadly mass-media Big Brother watching world we live in. This stuff has to be on the box and has to be entertaining. That’s the idiom. Otherwise you are crying in the wilderness.
And, at worst, it is complementary with every other positive initiative. (Wish I could think of them.) I don’t understand the urge to denigrate mainstream actions of this type.
Kim,
Live 8 makes “aid” one of only four planks in its aims. The other three aims address the structural reasons you allude to. If you and I can understand this stuff, and it is not rocket science, then I am sure Geldof and Bono can as well.
Kim,
Live 8 makes “aid” one of only four planks in its aims. The other three aims address the structural reasons you allude to. If you and I can understand this stuff, and it is not rocket science, then I am sure Geldof and Bono can as well.
All tailored to the sadly mass-media Big Brother watching world we live in. This stuff has to be on the box and has to be entertaining. That?Äôs the idiom. Otherwise you are crying in the wilderness.
I disagree on both counts.
I’d also question the ability of those in the West to speak for “Africa” (a reification if there ever was one – presumably they mean Sub-Saharan Africa which still collapses a lot of cultures and different economic and political situations into a marketable concept) without the input of Africans. That’s the sense I take Kim’s statement about its paternalistic and neo-colonialist overtones in. No doubt that’s also the point about the whiteness of the event – which is a real one when you think about it.
I just don’t see how Mariah Carey singing a song is going to be educational. I’m sorry.
All tailored to the sadly mass-media Big Brother watching world we live in. This stuff has to be on the box and has to be entertaining. That?Äôs the idiom. Otherwise you are crying in the wilderness.
I disagree on both counts.
I’d also question the ability of those in the West to speak for “Africa” (a reification if there ever was one – presumably they mean Sub-Saharan Africa which still collapses a lot of cultures and different economic and political situations into a marketable concept) without the input of Africans. That’s the sense I take Kim’s statement about its paternalistic and neo-colonialist overtones in. No doubt that’s also the point about the whiteness of the event – which is a real one when you think about it.
I just don’t see how Mariah Carey singing a song is going to be educational. I’m sorry.
” doubt further that it will challenge the deep reasons why in our system the global South earns 4% of the world?Äôs income”
like the fact that they have crap institutions whereas many other non-western countries which started off on the same level as them don’t and therefore are no longer in this category?
” doubt further that it will challenge the deep reasons why in our system the global South earns 4% of the world?Äôs income”
like the fact that they have crap institutions whereas many other non-western countries which started off on the same level as them don’t and therefore are no longer in this category?
Is there a link available to the aims?
Is there a link available to the aims?
Which level, Jason? Presumably you’re referring to Asian countries. There’s a lot of difference both in the colonial experience and also in the cultural and educational capabilities at the time of decolonisation. And you fail to take into account different time scales. Your argument, I suppose, is that Washington Consensus strictures on governance and free trade will do the trick.
Which level, Jason? Presumably you’re referring to Asian countries. There’s a lot of difference both in the colonial experience and also in the cultural and educational capabilities at the time of decolonisation. And you fail to take into account different time scales. Your argument, I suppose, is that Washington Consensus strictures on governance and free trade will do the trick.
“There?Äôs a lot of difference both in the colonial experience and also in the cultural and educational capabilities at the time of decolonisation.”
Mark, the crapiness or lack thereof of institutions is indeed partly a legacy of colonialism. the lucky countries mostly got colonised by the British and the unlucky ones didn’t. This takes us back to the Anglosphere debate. But it wasn’t my point to blame the crapinness solely on the indigenous institutions of the ‘South’.
“There?Äôs a lot of difference both in the colonial experience and also in the cultural and educational capabilities at the time of decolonisation.”
Mark, the crapiness or lack thereof of institutions is indeed partly a legacy of colonialism. the lucky countries mostly got colonised by the British and the unlucky ones didn’t. This takes us back to the Anglosphere debate. But it wasn’t my point to blame the crapinness solely on the indigenous institutions of the ‘South’.
here’s a bold conjecture. if you’re going to be colonised, you’re better off being colonised by the British than by the Spanish.
here’s a bold conjecture. if you’re going to be colonised, you’re better off being colonised by the British than by the Spanish.
There’s lots of counter examples, Jason – Uganda, Nigeria, to name two.
There’s lots of counter examples, Jason – Uganda, Nigeria, to name two.
Aside from the fact the Sudan and Nigeria (which is about to get really nasty) were part of Vicki’s’ Empire, I’d generally endorse Jason’s provocative debating point that ex-Brit colonies, especially in Asia, have turned out better than the legacies of other colonial empires. Especially the Belgiums, French and Germans. Boy, did they not have a clue or what?
Aside from the fact the Sudan and Nigeria (which is about to get really nasty) were part of Vicki’s’ Empire, I’d generally endorse Jason’s provocative debating point that ex-Brit colonies, especially in Asia, have turned out better than the legacies of other colonial empires. Especially the Belgiums, French and Germans. Boy, did they not have a clue or what?
Mark, again I ask – Why. Does. It. Matter?
A bunch of artists who may or may not be representitive of the people they are raising money for get together, have some fun, raise lots and lots of money that goes to help people. I dont think the people recieving the aid actually care how “educational” the effort was, they would just like to eat something for a change.
“Paternalistic and neo-colonialist overtones?” You have got to be joking.
Mark, again I ask – Why. Does. It. Matter?
A bunch of artists who may or may not be representitive of the people they are raising money for get together, have some fun, raise lots and lots of money that goes to help people. I dont think the people recieving the aid actually care how “educational” the effort was, they would just like to eat something for a change.
“Paternalistic and neo-colonialist overtones?” You have got to be joking.
Shorter Nic: If yer starving who gives a fuck how the food got there.
Shorter Nic: If yer starving who gives a fuck how the food got there.
Mark, what event can put pressure on the G8?
Mark, what event can put pressure on the G8?
Amanda, I think what’s being missed in all this is that the G8 is already considering British proposals regarding African Aid. Therefore I think that sustained political engagement in Britain – including within the structures of the Labour Party, public debate and street protest could all be effective. Maybe I am being too cynical about all this. But I still have my doubts as to its effectiveness and also as to whether it’s not a way for clapped out and broke musicians to raise their profile.
Amanda, I think what’s being missed in all this is that the G8 is already considering British proposals regarding African Aid. Therefore I think that sustained political engagement in Britain – including within the structures of the Labour Party, public debate and street protest could all be effective. Maybe I am being too cynical about all this. But I still have my doubts as to its effectiveness and also as to whether it’s not a way for clapped out and broke musicians to raise their profile.
Mariah Carey is black? Seriously, I did not know that. I knew I should have seen Glitter.
All of those things would be wonderful Mark and if we all click our ruby slippers together it might happen. But, otherwise, how? Where is this great upswell of public interest in a debate about third world debt going to come from? Who is suddenly going to march, apart from the usual suspects? (not meant to be a derogatory, but really, who?) If the Labour Party isn’t engaging enough with this issue internally by now, what could possibly happen to make it so? I would rather have 1% of something, than 100% of nothing and since the debate/interest in this issue outside the usual group of politically engaged/interested people (like us) is more or less zero, I guess I don’t see the value in being fussy.
Mariah Carey is black? Seriously, I did not know that. I knew I should have seen Glitter.
All of those things would be wonderful Mark and if we all click our ruby slippers together it might happen. But, otherwise, how? Where is this great upswell of public interest in a debate about third world debt going to come from? Who is suddenly going to march, apart from the usual suspects? (not meant to be a derogatory, but really, who?) If the Labour Party isn’t engaging enough with this issue internally by now, what could possibly happen to make it so? I would rather have 1% of something, than 100% of nothing and since the debate/interest in this issue outside the usual group of politically engaged/interested people (like us) is more or less zero, I guess I don’t see the value in being fussy.
My bad! I should have investigated further. Thanks wbb and Saint. That’ll teach me for commenting on the run.
Good on 50 cent and P Diddy. Though I’m not sure how 50 cent’s rather violent and misogynous lyrics fit in with feeding the starving and world peace and all that.
My bad! I should have investigated further. Thanks wbb and Saint. That’ll teach me for commenting on the run.
Good on 50 cent and P Diddy. Though I’m not sure how 50 cent’s rather violent and misogynous lyrics fit in with feeding the starving and world peace and all that.
I wonder how much of all this is unconsciously harking back to the 50s and 60s when folk music initially and later pop/rock seemed to have a critical political edge?
I wonder how much of all this is unconsciously harking back to the 50s and 60s when folk music initially and later pop/rock seemed to have a critical political edge?
What Amanda and Naomi said.
What Amanda and Naomi said.
And also it matters not much whether Geldof has all the answers, he’s the willing figure-head, these things require hooks to gain mass appeal and momentum, there is an organisation behind the stage that has serious purpose. Important not take the marketing at face value.
To my mind creating a surge of popular optimism and “hysteria” if you will, in the same country and at the same time, as the G8 are locked behind their oak panelled doors, may, just may, be enough to get Blair over the line with his proposals. Or at the very least get some people pissed off with whichever of the leaders turn out to be recalcitrant scrooges.
I believe it is a brilliantly conceived attempt to put pressure on elected but unresponsive leaders. The best part is that this strategy does not get bogged down in argument where the powers that be can always win if only by attrition.
Educationally, people will associate their popstars with the 3rd world debt cause, in the same they associate their idols with Coca Cola or Nike or whatever.
No need to worry about the inner motivation of the performers, for they are just that, the performers. What matters is their performance itself. Being on the stage. They are the leadership group on social msgs/fashion for very many people. Any example they set is more potent on the popular imagination than any amount of earnest papers flowing from left-wing think-tanks who ideas can never be brought to a mass audience without such an event as Live 8.
I can talk myself into anything, so maybe Mark or someone else wants to hose me down again, but having seen CFC come from bottom of the leader to triumph against all comers the last three weeks, I’m high on the spirit of battling against the odds.
And also it matters not much whether Geldof has all the answers, he’s the willing figure-head, these things require hooks to gain mass appeal and momentum, there is an organisation behind the stage that has serious purpose. Important not take the marketing at face value.
To my mind creating a surge of popular optimism and “hysteria” if you will, in the same country and at the same time, as the G8 are locked behind their oak panelled doors, may, just may, be enough to get Blair over the line with his proposals. Or at the very least get some people pissed off with whichever of the leaders turn out to be recalcitrant scrooges.
I believe it is a brilliantly conceived attempt to put pressure on elected but unresponsive leaders. The best part is that this strategy does not get bogged down in argument where the powers that be can always win if only by attrition.
Educationally, people will associate their popstars with the 3rd world debt cause, in the same they associate their idols with Coca Cola or Nike or whatever.
No need to worry about the inner motivation of the performers, for they are just that, the performers. What matters is their performance itself. Being on the stage. They are the leadership group on social msgs/fashion for very many people. Any example they set is more potent on the popular imagination than any amount of earnest papers flowing from left-wing think-tanks who ideas can never be brought to a mass audience without such an event as Live 8.
I can talk myself into anything, so maybe Mark or someone else wants to hose me down again, but having seen CFC come from bottom of the leader to triumph against all comers the last three weeks, I’m high on the spirit of battling against the odds.
Looks like I’m outvoted on this one. Good luck to them then.
Looks like I’m outvoted on this one. Good luck to them then.
Make mine another pro-Bono/Geldof vote. Cake stalls and lamington drives aren’t exactly fun or perfect fundraisers either but they mean the difference between schools with toilet paper, or without.
<snark>And we don’t see Beth Orton volunteering her time, do we?</snark>
Make mine another pro-Bono/Geldof vote. Cake stalls and lamington drives aren’t exactly fun or perfect fundraisers either but they mean the difference between schools with toilet paper, or without.
<snark>And we don’t see Beth Orton volunteering her time, do we?</snark>
Beth is changing the world one heart at a time, Liam.
Beth is changing the world one heart at a time, Liam.
haha, The Bombers are going down
haha, The Bombers are going down
I support the Coasters.
I support the Coasters.