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10 responses to “Ain’t Gonna Study War No More”

  1. Irant

    Hadn’t read this piece by Mooney yet. Thanks Mark.

    It is ironic that the ones that have taken the idea the knowledge is relative to the extreme is the unreasonable right. The whole ID movement is one of relativistic notions of knowledge (even given the religious underpinings of the movement).

    Note that movement against ID is a non-partisan issue. Both left and right bloggers came out against Bush’s remarks in the US.

  2. wbb

    Christ, not only hadn’t I read the Mooney piece yet, but Mark’s slunk off and written a post on it, probably while I was polishing the fangs afore bed. Call yourself a Catholic? Protestant written all over you.

  3. wbb

    It’s a stretch to call the ID movement, relatavist. They may write that on their calling card – but we all know they are playing for keeps.

  4. Mark

    It’s the Prussian in me!

    And I’ve been doing all this in the insterstices left while doing my taxes and meeting a consultancy deadline! Being back in the paid work game minimises my time for pleasurable procrastination so fostered by postgrad research!

  5. harry

    Irant,
    You will have probably already seen this:

    http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2

  6. Irant

    Yes, harry. A new scourge begins. Man the barricades!

    wbb, Some are the arguments from ID proponents due have a strong dose of epistemological relativism. However the movement is a political movement more than anything else as they readily appropriate tactics from that arena as well.

  7. wbb

    Irant, I’ve been pushing my luck here for a while trying to get a free philosophy education out of Mark, so if you could step into the breech, and expand on that point, I’d be most obliged.

    Specifically, I imagine the IDers are bible enthusiasts, hence the opposite of epistemological absolutists.

    No?

  8. Irant

    wbb, this discussion shall have to wait for the weekend. I am about to head off into the city for beer and good cheer. Shall explain who I see it tomorrow.

  9. Mark

    Also heading out but I’ve a long meditated post on epistemology which I will put up (inflict on readers?) on the weekend if I get a chance.

  10. Irant

    wbb, sorry for the late response.

    From an IDer‚Äôs perspective, science is constructed on a base of philosophical naturalism, that nature is all that there is — no god hypothesis needed for physics or indeed metaphysics. Hence the support for science is based, not on evidence, but on specific naturalistic metaphysics. The implication is that science is anti-supernatural being which makes it anti-religion.

    What the IDists have been doing is deliberately conflating methodological naturalism with philosophical naturalism. Methodological Naturalism simply assumes a priori that supernatural entities have nothing to do with nature and therefore science is limited to only explaining what happens in the natural world. Supernatural entities have a peculiar habit of effectively being unobservable hence any hypothesis that invokes supernatural entities is sterile in terms of research and experiment.

    Of course what IDers are trying to do is portray science as being fundamentally atheistic in its foundation. The obvious implication is that by having an atheistic world view science is deliberately preventing a theistic world view from entering the fray as an scientific explanation. Therefore the battle is not about evidence but about world views. Hence the relativistic notion that the problem with evolution is that its philosophical basis has adversely influence the scientific basis.

    Of course the flaw in the ID arguments is that (1) science does not a priori assume philosophical naturalism and (2) the openness of science to inquiry and replication of research that, while not perfect, helps expand a theory across different societies and cultures.

    I suggest reading Meyer’s Hopeless Monster as it really illustrates how ID approaches science from very relativistic position.