T’was a week before Festivus and not a creature was stirring, not even a rodent……oh, never mind……..
Prime Minister John Howard has said he wants to put Christ back into Christmas. Mr Howard says he has contempt for those who downplay Christianity during the festive season, in case it offends those who are non-religious or are of other faiths. He said blanding out religious symbols of Christmas showed intolerance.
Maybe something else is on his mind? The Da Vinci code has got nothing on this guy, he a walking talking Enigma machine.
But I’m confused, the PM, as a man that has been bought and sold by corporate interests should be defending their success at turning Christmas into Festivus.
However, I’m very pleased that our corporate overlords have succeeded in implementing the agendas of all good atheists and secularists everywhere, it’s clear that market forces have decided that Christ is bad for Christmas and business, the PM just isn’t listening, what will the big end of town say? At least on this I have to agree with all good capitalists. But I’ll leave the last word to Johann Hari.
The Archbishops pine for the days when Christmas was a celebration of the birth of a quasi-mystical figure, a man whose hallucinatory teachings â remember his command to follow âevery jot and tittleâ? of the Old Testament, beheading gays and stoning prostitutes included? â have been a gift to bigots and theocrats for millennia. So quick â get to HMV, toss your nativity props onto the bonfire as you go, and deck the halls with holly in joy at the commercial conquest of Christâs birth.
Word.
Down with that evil man and his hallucinatory teachings! Onward and upward with the worhship of a god the masses can really get a grip on. Viva capitalism! The man with the most presents and profits wins! (and gets to die empty-handed and empty-hearted anyway)
Howard has already succeeded in putting religion back into xmas. As in the newly popular phrase: Jesus Christ I’ve just found out I have to work at xmas. Not to forget that other modern day classic: My God, they have cut out my penalty rates.
The Rodent is against bland? Wow, this IS news.
He’s right, of course. We should all stop showing our intolerance by downplaying other people’s festive symbols and practices. Hanukka, Kwanzaa, Hogmanay …
Why is Christianity fair game but Islam untouchable to you lefties? Is the latter really that much more moral in your estimations?
I don’t know where Hari is on the political spectrum as I haven’t had time yet to read a representative selection of his posts.
But this post seems to support my view that the left’s paranoia against free trade is really hurting poor countries and benefitting the rich – the opposite to what the left is reputed (by themselves at any rate) to stand for:
http://johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=749
I find it ironic that the self-estimated moral superiority of France vis-a-vis the wicked anglo societies seems not to operate in the matter of protection of bloated French farmers.
Hey it’s Frosty the Strawman
whyisitso->
This lefty, for at least five years, has not taken to beating up religions in general. When people attack certain lines in religious texts of some religions, I will quote similarly ridiculous parts of other religions, though. I only start quoting Leviticus when people try to present religions other than Christianity as naturally evil, violent, etc.
The agricultural trade article that you linked is a good example of why I am personally very cynical of free trade. Because in the real world, free trade does not happen. Australian farmers are regularly punished by that same mechanism you outline, because the EU and US do not really practice free trade – they have massive subsidies. Why should Australia, relatively free of susbsidies, practice “free trade” because the EU/US etc tells us too, when they do not practice free trade themselves?
The reality is that international trade is about bleating whatever line that people will believe while maximising your own interests. Free trade, protectionalism, whatever, the only dominate ideology at present is short term political self interest.
There are many more facets to the free trade that thwart the base ideology (like corporations preferring developing dictatorships to democracies, and the consequences this brings), but that’s just a comment on your article.
I’m just wondering if whyisitso meant to post his/her comments on Christy’s WTO thread?
Honesty and balance demand that the ‘Prophet’s’ acts of rape, murder, theft, genocide and pedophilia also be acknowledged.
Comparable crimes of the man Jesus Christ may also be essayed. Like I always say, good luck with that.
Oh, and your bigotry is relevant to this thread, how, exactly, C.L.?
Or perhaps you’re trying to display for us the love that Christians have for others in action?
Typical LP.
Christ as hallucinogenic father of violence – OK.
Attack on the ‘Prophet’ “bigotry.”
Laughable.
An unneccessary, Scrooge-related contribution, Phil.
The commercialisation of Christmas is in many ways unfortunate, but why be so dismissive of an overwhelming success. The ideal of giving has created massive wealth for people who don’t even grasp the significance of the season. Of course the concept of giving presents to loved ones is abused, but mostly by unbelievers, who are taking advantage of a gigantic success story, not Christians, who, on the whole, continue to celebrate in the right way for the right reasons. See how the life of one man has impressed the whole world 2,000 tears after he was born. That’s a huge PR triumph. So now ungrateful commercial outlets want to drop the originater of their success. Shameful. The PM is actually commercially right as well as spiritually relevant for the many people, specially kids, who still enjoy the celebration.
Quoting Johan Hari links you to bitter-spirited humbug.
“I’m just wondering if whyisitso meant to post his/her comments on Christy’s WTO thread?”
No.
Phil Gomes posted a link to that blog, so it was relevant to examine what the blog is all about.
You seem to be pretty fussy about this sort of stuff, Mark. I notice you posted a link back to this site on Catallaxy not long ago and then had the gall to attack a commenter for posting a comment on the lniked LP post.. Get real!
About time the phony War on Christmas emerged in Australian. The battle has been raging in the US.
“Why should Australia, relatively free of susbsidies, practice âfree tradeâ? because the EU/US etc tells us too, when they do not practice free trade themselves.”
We don’t practice (relatively) free trade because anyone else tells us to, Stuart. We do it because it benefits ourselves. That’s why Australia has become one of the strongest economies in the OECD in recent years.
Free trade is a win-win situation.
Of course the world is a long way from schieving free trade, but we a lot closer than we were 20 years ago. Why shrug our shoulders and give up when the benefits of achieving that goal are so huge.
Just because a farmer or anyone else has been practicing a trade for some years or even generations doesn’t mean the rest of the country owes him a living. That is the way back to the middle ages with its craft guilds and no progress for centuries.
Australia owes a lot to the Hawke/Keating government for rescuing Australia from Argentina-isation in the eighties and to Howard/Costello for maintaining us at the higher level and even improving on it a bit. We were headed for oblivion. Read Paul Kelly’s book “The End of Certainty” where he chronicles the economic history of the first eighty years since Federation – a system he called “The Australian Settlement”.
Whyisitso. Whyareyouhere? Whatiswrongwithyou?
Hari is a pro Iraq war leftist. Make you feel any better? His arguments on that score are more cogent and are filled with more ethical questioning and reasoning than seen by any pro war rightist I ever read, as such I trust and agree with many of his positions. I’ve long been a fan and regard his positions as in sync with mine. Anyway please bugger off and move the free trade argument to Chrysty’s WTO post, this is about joining Howard in the bogus Christmas culture wars.
Merry
ChristFestivus. Hey! Howard started it, buddy boy. And don’t get me started or else I’ll do a post on my love of Christmas lights, you would’nt believe what some of the folks have done to their homes in my neighbourhood….awesome!As for CL, the day the Islamists have real power to decide what I should and should believe in or do is the day I hook into them as well. All religious nutters should just stay the hell out of my life. I’m more than happy for them to practise their own brand of voodoo………just not on my dime.
Yeah Shaun, bring it on. It’s Santas nailed to the cross and the little donkey from Shrek in the manger.
“Hari is a pro Iraq war leftist. Make you feel any better?”
Why are bloggers on LP so aggressive and prone to personal abuse? It’s quite common on blogs for comments to follow tangents, which in this case was taken up by Stuart French.
If you post a link to another blog, it’s fair enough to have a quick look at it to see what it’s all about. Actually the first sentence in your comment I’ve quoted at the start of this comment is helpful. Thank you for that at least. I hadn’t established that.
More straw whyareyousothinslinned? Seen the threads at a good RWDB blog lately? I’ve made it clear, WTO/Free trade is another post.
I suspect that Johann Hari – who (sorry Phil) is more your uniquely acerbic poof libertarian than a diminutive Pilger- and Howard would totally agree on one point : that attempts to de-Christianise Xmas because of some imagined “slight” that it offers to people who not Christian is a major wank. Not least for the reason that no one – of any religion – can ever be found who is actually “slighted;” including nominal Christians who are too busy shopping and going to Xmas parties to be worried about it. Archbishops and John Howard are expected to offer these seasonal caveats. The expectation on the rest of us is to ignore them.
If Xmas is more “laissez le bon temps rouler” than the sacred contemplation of the Christ child, what’s the problem? Don’t retailers warrant an annual feel-good moment too? Isn’t it a good idea (at least in theory) to get together with those you’re close too and give them a gift or two, heartburn and a hangover?
We’ve just put our fairy lights (clear of course – we’re sophisticated, innerurbanati people) in the lower limbs of our liquidambar tree. If you’re standing on the other side of the Cooks River, they look magic.
Actually you’re largely right about the Libertarianism of Hari, but kinda left Lib by my reading.
Geoff you’re joking….. which side of the Cooks River? I’m on the Marrickville side towards Earlwood. It’s good around here at the moment. Lotsa fun arrangements on some of the houses.
“We’ve just put our fairy lights (clear of course – we’re sophisticated, innerurbanati people) in the lower limbs of our liquidambar tree. If you’re standing on the other side of the Cooks River, they look magic.”
I can well believe that, Geoff. I’ve noticed more and better Christmas lights on houses around here too this year. It really enhances the night. Long live Christmas. If it makes a lot of people feel good what’s the harm. It’s sure beats laying on the beach and getting sand kicked over you because you’re laying in the way of a football game that was set up an hour after you put your towel down.
C.L. – I read Phil’s post in a hurry – didn’t notice the comment by Hari which is distinguished by its theological ignorance. I still don’t see that your bile in response is appropriate.
Whyisitso – I was just trying to be helpful.
actually Hari’s comment would have made some sense if he had been talking about the God of the Old Testament rather than Jesus. Just to complicate matters, the OT God is of course primarily the God of the Jews and Jesus is actually regarded as a major prophet by the Muslims (just not the Son of God)
“Geoff you’re joking….. which side of the Cooks River?”
On the Earlwood (well, we prefer to say Undercliffe) side, facing Steel Park.
Aaaah, Undercliff…..ish…..posh. Anyway, back to the Christmas culture wars started by the PM.
There is enough straw
On both sides, for a manger
Merry Christmas, all
There is enough straw
On both sides, for a manger
Merry Christmas, all.
Posh?! I’ll have to tell Lance’s mum. Her parents got moved to this place as inner city slum clearance resettlers in the 20′s. She’s 87 and she’s finally arrived!
Chill on the Christmas culture wars, Phil. Relax and illuminate that “John Howard and the Magi go shopping at DJ’s” multicoloured display that you’ve got in the cupboard.
Phil may well be doing this thread from Auckland right at this very moment, Geoff!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200512/s1533621.htm
Somebody says above, “Why is Christianity fair game but Islam untouchable to you lefties? Is the latter really that much more moral in your estimations?”
Go to Johann Hari’s website, click on ‘Archive’ then ‘Against religion’. You will find dozens of articles criticising Islam, Buddhism (he was thrown out of an interview with the Dalai Lama!), and every other religion. So your point is nonsense.
It’s not Hari’s quote that’s of interest. It’s Phil Gnomes commentary in support of it – ‘Word’. I take it ‘word’ means he’s in full agreement.
So to Mark, why do CL assertions about Islam constitute bigotry, but Phil Gnomes full support of claims you yourself called “distinguished by its theological ignorance” not worthy of a similar label?
Michael, you’re rather a rude boy, aren’t you? It’s not particularly amusing to call people by silly names.
Let C.L. provide some justification for what you correctly say are “assertions”. Phil provided a link to Hari’s post.
I don’t get it. So as long as it’s someone else saying it, I’m free to propogate any idea without fear of being associated with it’s negative consequences, and no matter how much support I lend it?
What silly name would that be, anyhow? If you’re referring to Gnome, well I only had a quick glance at his name and spelt it as I knew it. My apologies, Phil.
Presumably there is some justification in Hari’s post. I don’t agree with his view, but I’m not that interested either, and I’m not going to read it after 2am.
If you’re trying to make some sort of point about differential treatment, I can assure you that C.L. and I have disagreed at length over his view on Islam before. I don’t believe that the tone or intent of C.L.’s comment is at all helpful in any sense, though as I said above, I made mine on the run and realised later why C.L. was motivated by something in the post to say it. I don’t believe it’s useful to discuss this any further, as I think I’ve clarified all I want to clarify.
However, if C.L. found the accusation of bigotry offensive, I’ll withdraw it and apologise. Unfortunately, C.L. has made a lot of very derisory comments about Islam over a long period of time. I recognise, though, that he appears, however, to hold these opinions genuinely and out of a sense of what he sees as being right, no matter how strongly I disagree with him. People can make what they wish of his comment.
Frankly I don’t think even Christmas is traditional enough. I think we should go the whole hog(manay)and bring back the orgastic tomfoolery of Saturnalia.
“I think we should go the whole hog(manay)and bring back the orgastic tomfoolery of Saturnalia.”
Or the pagan Germanic tradition of ‘Yule’ which apparently involved nude yodelling and human sacrifice.
I’ve no idea whether there were post Yule day sales…
But do we need to check with the resident happiness guru to see if nude yodelling would be a good substitute for evil materialism?
“..yodelling and human sacrifice”
An understandable chain of events.
I’ve orderd mine.
Alas for you would be pagans, the commercial success of Christmas means that the self-indulgent new year and solstice festivals of hogmanay, saturnalia and yuletide would be also riding on the back of its success, which is based on giving, and generally works because iit does have a ‘spirit’ of goodwill.