Again, the previous Haneef thread is getting way too long.
Much was made yesterday of claims that Indian police believe that there are links between Haneef and extreme jihadists. To kick this thread off, from The Hindu (Online edition of India’s National Newspaper):
Meanwhile, reports in a section of the Australian media that a dossier prepared by the Bangalore police on Mohammed Haneef on his alleged links with the Al-Qaeda have come as a surprise to the police here.
Bangalore Police Commissioner Neelam Achuta Rao told The?Hindu on Wednesday that they had not prepared any such dossier.
So where has the alleged Haneef dossier actually come from?
Secondly, Haneef’s legal team are waiting until their appeal against his visa revocation comes before the courts to fully discuss statements released by Kevin Andrews from an alleged chatroom transcript (a chat which Andrews belatedly acknowledged was conducted in Urdu and which he refuses to release in its original form for scrutiny by other translators):
Speaking at a press conference here on Wednesday, Dr. Haneef, who was released by the Australian authorities after 27 days of incarceration in connection with the botched Glasgow airport bombing, disclosed that the Australian police had questioned him on the chat transcripts during the second recorded interrogation with them. “They have just [quoted] a few lines from the chat, and it is not a full chat. Once you get the whole chat you would be able to understand what it is.??
When asked if it had been used out of the context, he said: “My lawyer has advised me not to make any direct comments or allegations until the visa matter is finalised before the Australian court and any comment should come from the legal team.?? His wife’s relative, Imran Siddiqui, added: “After we received a few comments, lawyer Peter Russo is working on to finalise an affidavit.??
Mr. Siddiqui said:
“He [Dr. Haneef] did chat with his brother on a regular basis. This transcript which we are talking about and the issue that Kevin Andrews is speaking [will] be discussed in court. The legal team does not want us to comment on them because they feel that will affect their arguments on August 8 … The transcript is not classified information. Now we are [asking them for] the complete second transcript … Once outside the court, the second transcript becomes a public document and we can comment on it.??
Then there’s the Mick Keelty gaffe:
Mr Keelty’s confusion over the SIM card, and his new warning that Dr Haneef could again be charged, drew an angry response from Queensland Premier Peter Beattie, who said it was imperative for a national inquiry to resolve the saga.
Mr Beattie told The Australian last night he was “amazed?? at Mr Keelty’s latest comments. “I can’t understand why, if that’s true, they let him leave the country,?? Mr Beattie said when asked about Mr Keelty’s comments that a prosecution could still ensue.
Beattie also called for the release of the chatroom transcripts in full and in the original Urdu for the sake of transparency. He’s not alone in wanting that.
Other questions beside the ‘Why did they let him out of the country’ are canvassed here.
Interesting that the links that went direct to the four page dossier last night don’t now.
Here is the link http://media.theaustralian.news.com.au/070801-haneef.pdf
It’s in this story: Indian Police File on Haneef
It looks pretty much like a file created on hearing of Haneef’s arrest in Australia
Yes, this is known as the “ONA Assessment report” phase of the pre-election wedge.
Viz, find a third party summary of your ludicrous, now discredited claims: and present as new verificatory evidence of them.
A copy of this “dossier” can be viewed here.
This “dossier” bears no identifying marks at all. It is identified as being “an Indian police” document. India is, like Australia, a federation of states. Each state has its own police force.
Interestingly, the picture of Dr Haneef on this “dossier” is the same one that has appeared many times on Australian television.
And the “dossier” memtions Haneef’s employment at the Gold Coast hospital.
Moreover it mentions his possession of a key when detained by Australian authorities.
This suggests strongly that the dossier is brand new, i.e., it was not constructed until after Dr Haneef became famous in Australia.
Moreover, the dossier was constructed at least partially of material sourced from Australia.
So, why does this “dossier” exist?
It would appear to be a clumsy attempt by some interested person in Australia to cast doubt upon the bona fides of Dr Haneef.
Who, in Australia, would be interested in having such document constructed?
Who, in Australia, is capable of convincing themselves that such a document would be accepted as legitimate?
Could it be the work of a stumblebum?
Exactly.
I’ve got it now. If information is released to the media that portrays Haneef in a good light it is bad and the government and AFP get all huffy. If information is released that cast aspersions on Haneef’s character it is good. Keelty’s recent comments have been particularly disgraceful. What hypocrites to decry “trial by media” when they are attempting to manipulate public opinion via the media themselves.
Difference is, this time around we seem to have a much more sceptical media.
It took some time for people to question the Children Overboard storyline, but this time we’re seeing doubt cast almost immediately.
For instance:
As I said, what a fart in the bath. Given that medicos dominate the leaderships of Islamist groups around the world, let us hope the dopes in immigration are a little more cicumspect in dolling out work visas. Please, enough skyscrapers, buses, trains, embassies, filmakers, cartoonists have been blown to bits. We have escaped so far. Let’s keep it that way.
Steve,
You asked why Haneef was let go. Since the evidence against him remains flimsy, why on earth wouldn’t we let him out of the country? The guy is most probably innocent. His visa wasn’t cancelled because he is a criminal. It was cancelled because he is obviously an associate of terrorists and some (but only some) of his conduct was suspicious. He therefore fails the character test in the Migration Act. Most people do not have a problem with associates of terrorists, however personally innocent, being refused visas or having their already-granted visas cancelled.
Andrews has already stated that the chat room transcripts were complete (that is my recollection from the Lateline interview). If that turns out to be untrue, it will be most disappointing and I think the public would quite rightly demand Andrews’ sacking.
These latest revelations from the Indian ‘police dossier’ are less than worthless. They are evidence of nothing.
BBB
Reminds me of the now discredited WMD dossier that poor Colin Powell was suckered into presenting to the UN Security Council. Has Keelty taken on the front person role like Powell did?
The dossier is dodgy – it has no official status. It only contains allegations and innuendo re possible involvment with terrorism This does smell like background spook (ONA?) activity to me.
Keelty on the radio this morning that “they may still arrest Haneef on terrorism-related charges” and that “they are investigating his money trail” etc. Heaping more fat on the fire they have lit . . .
Andrews has shut up for now – I think it has become too obvious he is playing politics – and the GG has ripped in to him today with this:
He may yet take a dive.
The hypocrisy of the luvvies is breathtaking. Keeping him here under a control order is far more expensive than simply waving bye-bye at the airport.
.
OK, I’m big enough to acknowledge my enemy’s good points.
Gazetteers, thats a great line…..
Yes, hip hooray to the Australian.
The office politics of the editorial suite must be fascinating.
Albrechtsen, Sheridan, Shamaham, et al., must be suffering a severe dose of the strangles.
Come on Fairfax, why are you dragging the chain?
Prediction: Failed.
Huh?
True, Craig – it only took 12.
I’m so relieved that cost-effectiveness is the central priority in the prosecution of the War on Emotional States.
So, the barnyard fowls are still at it, then?
Shorter RWDB: No price is too high to pay for security (as long as it doesn’t cost too much).
I sincerely hope that Ratty doesn’t endanger the good folks of Northern Tasmania by employing wog doctors in his
pork barrelbrave exercise in democratic centralism.Mark
Islam is not really your special subject, is it? Medical doctors, followed by engineers occupy the leadership of Hizb Ut Tahrir, Muslim Brotherhood, Jamaat Islami, Fatah, Hamas, Hizbollah, JI, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade, PFLP, and on and on. Al Quada also has a heavy concentration of doctors, but even more engineers. One of them even got booted out of UNSW medical school.
Wake up and smell the coffee, dude.
Katz
You also do not get it, do you? This has absolutely nothing to do with “wogs.” In case you are sight-challenged, might I remind you that Australia has a huge percentage of “wogs” among its population. A fact that has evolved with a minimum of social disruption or strife.
For Greengage’s information, the above highlighted groups are secularist, not Islamist.
Seems that Greensleeves’ knowledge of Islamism is absurdly deficient. Sadly ironic, given his caffeine-laden critique of Mark.
I imagine John cut and pasted that from somewhere, Katz. Easy to do under the influence of that noxious Islamic drug, caffeine.
I am more astounded to find a person that still reads Ackerman since he has seemed to have made himself chief protector of issues supporting the Howard govt.
SO if we investigated all quiet, polite softly spoken people, people with beards and doctors we should be safe from terrorism.
CAN there be a more confusing messed up affair than this one on Haneef. Information, misinformation, stuff ups, politics, wrong information being presented to the court and so forth. Then we get an Indian police dossier that the journalists warns should be treated with scepticism alleging terrorist links.
The dossier is written in bad english with bad spelling. Unless the author of the report is Australian [then I would understand] you would be surprised, since Indian public servants are usually very strong on english.
Then we hear that senior Indian police have no interest in Haneef or is he being investigated on the same program by the same journalist. The journalist raises the possibility of the document being ‘prepared’ on the request of Australia or Britain to politcally support their efforts. Which makes the dossier’s purpose and content even more suspect. Gee even John Laws is treating it with suspiscion.
Then we have an ASIO investigation into Haneef which says there are no issues of concern. ASIO would have most certainly contacted Indian police and intelligence as well as British police and intelligence. BUT later we see a report that MI5 reckon Haneef has been in contact with radical groups in Britain by phone. [not sure what that would mean].
Amongst all this we have the fact that Haneef tried to call Scotland yard 4 times about his SIM card as soon as he heard it was an issue.
The reason this affair has become a mess is;
1. Errors of fact in the begining
2. Political pressure to produce a case later – which lead to false representation of fact to the court
3. Efforts to support the case by leaking bits and pieces of informaiton implying ‘guilt’.
4. Other agencies outside Australia trying to come to the aid of the AFP and or Govt.
This all occured because the Ruddock, Howard and Andrews quickly politicised the whole thing for vote buying and turned a non-case into a fiasco.
I now doubt that the UK police told the AFP the wrong SIM card info – this is just too bizar of a mistake to make. The UK police along with the late and conflicting MI5 statement seem to be for the purpose of supporting a mate [AFP police]. I suspect the Indian dossier was simply produced to aid the Aust government’s position or some other spurious reason.
The lesson hopefully learned is that Politicising security and police issues increases our risk.
JG’s concern is understandable, since he believes that Australia is one of the only countries in the world not to have been attacked by Islamic terorists.
On Islamists and doctors, Abu Bakar Bashir is not even a doctor like Dr Pepper.
From the Courier Mail this morning:
“FREED terror suspect Mohamed Haneef was regularly in contact with Islamic radicals under surveillance by British spy agency MI5.
Highly classified intelligence documents leaked yesterday reveal the former Gold Coast doctor – still considered a person of interest by British and Australian investigators – made contact using medical chat rooms, international phone cards and phone boxes.
The intelligence suggests this was to avoid detection and suspicion.
The leaked dossier, part of the information that formed a key plank in Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews’ decision to revoke Dr Haneef’s visa, alleges the Indian-born doctor spoke to a number of suspects about a “project” and a “purpose” before the failed UK bombings.
However, it’s understood the intelligence does not contain information about a terrorist attack in Australia and only believes Dr Haneef to be on the outer edge of a large group of like-minded people.”
Although I normally strongly object to leaking by either the Feds or the government, the way Andrews has been attacked over this by not only bloggers, but The Australian, The Age, and many lawyers, I don’t particularly care what is leaked now.
Seems to me Peter Russo may as well come home, and end the Federal Court appeal. Even if Andrews was found to have made a determination with “improper purpose” at the time of his first determination, I can’t see any way the courts can stop him from making a fresh determination now.
The leaks indicate that there is not a chance in hell that the fresh determination is going to be any different, and that such a determination would be fully justified.
BBB On that basis George Bush and his association with Scooter will prohibit him from getting a visa too, will it?
Steve I suspect is correct. The water has been muddied so much and so much misinformation and mates helping mate [MI5 helping out AFP or Govt] that it will be hard to get it all clear.
The MI5 statement I find very strange since the ASIO investigation of Haneef said there was nothing of concern. ASIO would have most certainly spoken with British and Indian police and intelligence services. NOW MI5 make a statement to the contrary. And now we got a badly written and odd dossier that still contradicts the official Indian police line [as stated on SBS] that they are not investigating Haneef.
There may now need to be 12 investigations into
1. what MI5 are doing with this late info and why now but not before with ASIO
2. what Scotland yard were doing with info on the SIM card
3. what the AFP did were doing with the SIM info
4. ASIOs investigation
5. Indian police dossier providence and purpose and legitimacy
6. Govt pressure involvement at different stages.
7. competance of Andrews
8. The operation and oversight of these laws
9. Why the DPP forced the AFP to take the case to trial before they had completed their investigations.
10. The 3 lies given as evidence in court.
11. the timing of Andrews visa cacellation
12. and oh yeh…the continuance of investigation, out of govt and media glare, if Haneef has any involvement with anything
What should have been a simple case is a mess. It appears at the time of making his determination Andrews didnt have any extra info to go on. And you only would now because the matter is so murky.
I cant wait to see the next turn of events. Let me see – a phone conversation between a Minister’s office and a Bangalore police dept?
I suspect The Australian obvioiusly know much more about the truth of matters since they are putting the spotlight well and truly on Andrews.
Good point, steve. I’m more than willing to abandon common sense to achieve intellectual purity on this one. Ban George Bush now!
Cheers
BBB
Well done BBB, spoken just like Kevin.
I just checked out the authors of the Courier Mail report: Renee Viellaris, Ian McPhedran, and Margaret Wenham.
Cynical and ad hom, I know, but I’m have a hard time believing that any of them could get their hands on a leaked MI5 document. Unless they found it on the intertubes. Oh hang on, they got it off Kev:
Kina, if you think the public will think that it is worthwhile having such vast and extensive investigations, while at the same time believing that the Minister was almost certainly right after all, it’s lucky for Kevin Rudd that you aren’t his political adviser.
As for The Australian, the Left thinks its editorials are wrong 95% of the time. This is the Right’s turn to say that they are completely off the mark, at least in terms of the vehemence of their attack. While I don’t see conspiracy, I must admit it does seem to me like someone had a bump on the head there, and the other staff haven’t yet recognized the symptoms of the concussion.
But at least I find it a little amusing that they have gone all anti-government on an issue where it looks like the critics they are supporting are on a hiding to nothing.
Miranda Devine inadvertantly vitiates the “leaked dossier”:
“(a chat which Andrews belatedly acknowledged was conducted in Urdu and which he refuses to release in its original form for scrutiny by other translators)”
…..said Tigtog.
I heard the Jon Faine interview, with Andrews, where he was pressed to release the original transcript in Urdu. Not the whole, but just the bits that were released by Andrews. He claimed it was not up to him, but the Federal police. The Faine team contacted them.
Eventually, AFP left a statement saying they could not release this small piece of the primary source information because it might ‘compromise their methodolgy’ or some such words.
Academic Peter Friedlander, rang in, as did a native Hindi speaker to point out that “getting out” ,while suspicious in English, merely means ‘leaving’ in Urdu.
Also, that there was no such word for “project” , though it was conceded it MAY have been used as part of ‘Hindish’ , in the converstion.
Andrews and the AFP will not even PROPERLY release the bit of the transcript that they claim to have released.
Peter Friedlander cred below..
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/socsci/staff/friedlander/friedlander.html
Breaking News: Suspicion Haneef involved in Mississippi Bridge Collapse.
(just pre-empting the next twist!
)
Haneef implicated in Occultist Sect which claims credit for Hurricane Katrina!
If this is true, then the incompetence of the Government in failing to have Haneef remanded in custody is all the more culpable.
Ruddock and Andrews must be sacked.
The problem is that most of you don’t know when to be suspicious.
Just remember that no action by the Howard government is ever suspicious. Be 100% gullible when you hear the words Howard government and national security.
Conversely raise your suspicion level to 100% (and rising) in when someone achieves the trifecta (Born in a foriegn country, preferably non-English speaking, Muslim, alive)
Also, Katz, I can’t imagine MI5 being too happy about an Australian Immigration Minister leaking information from one of their files.
I wonder if the Brits will seek his extradition for prosecution under the Official Secrets Act.
Haneef implicated in Harold Hold Disappearance.
Holt – !~
Only in your tiny mind Lefty. ThatI could have predicted too.
“Keeping him here under a control order is far more expensive than simply waving bye-bye at the airport.”
But cheaper than trying to extradite him if they do decide to lay charges. all those legal fees that will have to be paid to convince an Indian Court it is justified, not to mention that AFP officers etc will have to travel to India.
strike>The Keystone Cops AFP are still clutching at straws.
“Part of the ongoing investigation is to look at all avenues of inquiry,” he said. “Some of those avenues of inquiry I can confirm relate to financial transactions.
“But as I keep saying, this is a very much an ongoing investigation, it’s a live investigation and we need to let the investigation take its course.”
Haneef Also linked to JFK Assasination and subsequent shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald
Haneef suspected of eating Azaria Chamberlain, causing Challenger and Columbia shuttle disasters, rolling cricket ball under Glenn McGrath’s foot before 2nd Ashes Test in 2005, and writing Mark Latham’s forests policy.
Dream on!
For a few rupees, you could get anybody and anything in India and know for sure that in this environment an Australian will fall for it. It smells like a scam, looks like a scam and is certainly a scam. Wonder how much money changed hands. Somebody is lauging all the way to the bank!!
Mmmmkay…
Hang on ….. are you Mick Keelty?
My god, he spoke to his Doctor cousin using a medical chat room. Further to that, he went to the 7-11 to buy one of those 1/2 cent a minute phone cards, and instead of using it to call the UK or India on his mobile, he went to a phone box.
Whoever heard of an Indian on a working visa using a phone card and phone box to call his relatives? Gotta be suspicious, that has.
Watching all the self-styled cynicists – Greenfield, BBB, and the various steves – losing their cynicism and getting all starry eyed everytime Andrews releases a new lie is highly amusing. Hey boys, I’ve got an excellent bridge in Minneapolis to sell you…
Breaking news: Haneef was actually Osama Bin Laden incognito with his beard trimmed and a Grecian rinse. And the AFP let him go!!!!!
Mick’s a bit more competent.
SG, one of the steves is with you lot. He’ll be pissed!
BBB
No he won’t.
Another Hissy Fit from Dolly.
Mr Downer insisted it was a “very, very big mistake” to criticise the country’s measures, saying they were intended to save Australian lives after bombings in Indonesia in recent years that have killed dozens of Australians.
“I’m amazed that these tough laws generate as much controversy as they do in Australia, particularly bearing in mind what I’ve seen on two occasions in Bali and at the Australian embassy in Jakarta, and in the hospitals surrounding them,” he said.
“If a terrorist attack occurs and dozens of Australians… or even five or six Australians are killed, what will you say to their families?” he said on the sidelines of an Asian security conference in Manila.
“For the terrorists, the sentence for their victims is death. It’s death. And so we are trying to preserve lives with tough laws.”
Didduims.
Dolly never tires of whining on like a aclassroom snitch.
Now Dolly, stop pulling the wings off that fly and listen carefully.
The laws aren’t at issue here. What is at issue is the extraordinary incompetence exhibited by government in exercising their authority and in administering these laws.
Now, stop fiddling with yourself and write out 100 times:
“The laws will not protect us. Only competent administration of laws will protect us.”
If a terrorist attack occurs in Australia I’d say it will come about by ineptitude not lack of vigilance or “tough” laws.
Shaun
Ah, actually it will occur because Islamists succeeded. Please remember who is the active subject here. This constant infantilising of the Muslims as passive victims must really cease.
I also love the seemingly unquestionable implication that if Australia does get a terrorist attack, it will be because the laws weren’t authoritarian enough, as if these two things are at all connected.
Yes, worryingly, it will in fact it be dependent on the quality of our intelligence services, and, incidentally, whether they’re spending their time on the job, or on political arse-covering exercises for Ministers.
I think Rudd needs to move to subtly re-wedge: highlighting government incompetence on these issues.
“If a terrorist attack occurs in Australia Iâ??d say it will come about by ineptitude not lack of vigilance or â??toughâ?? laws.”
Strictly speaking it will come about because somebody commits an act of terrorism. Ineptitude will simply reduce the possibility of that person being stopped in advance.
Devine today
“For instance, so many doctors were among the suspects rounded up over the failed London and Glasgow car bombings on June 29 and June 30 that British newspapers headlined their stories “Doctor plot”. ”
I’ll bet she has no idea what was meant by the allusion to the doctors’ plot.
Lefty E: either you are psychic, or Rudd is taking your advice on re-wedging (or is that reverse wedging?):
I was about to post that , Peterc!
Good on him. Worth reading in full. http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/rudd-attacks-andrews/2007/08/02/1185648040299.html
I like these bits:
Which only goes to show, incidentally, that Rudd’s smarter, and has more ticker than Beazer.
Mind you, to be fair, standard Wedge 101 tactics are more transparent six years on.
I like the way he handles it too: soberly putting the focus right back in competence of administration – the focus Team rodent is desperate to blur.
As an aside, Kevin Rudd is quoted as follows:
“”What’s the best process for doing that? An independent judicial inquiry.
“Why? Because such an inquiry enables all the information to be properly assessed in an independent manner and …” etc
Dawson & Clarke have already lampooned this self-interviewing style of Kevin which he uses all of the time. Does anyone on his side of the fence think he should be advised to give it up as getting just too predictable as a rhetorical method?
It seems Dateline has been sold a pup.
Police in Bangalore declared today they had no file on Dr Haneef, who has returned home to India after a charge in Australia of recklessly supporting a terrorist organisation was dropped for lack of evidence.
Investigators hosed down the al-Qaeda claims after the Australian Federal Police (AFP) moved to clarify the source of the so-called dossier, reportedly put together by Indian police following Dr Haneef’s arrest in Brisbane in connection with the botched attack on Glasgow airport.
That “Dossier” looked dodgy from the start – you’d think that it would be printed on some sort of Letterhead.
No but we should give up Howard, Downer,Abbott,Andrews, Ruddock and Brough for being incompetent and not fit to Govern.
Here is the link to the Kevin Andrews fanclub.
The Facebook Fire Kevin Andrews group has been quite active:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10674883784&pwstdfy=190b9eeb5524fcaae83530c45683d2e5
The [terror] laws aren’t at issue here. What is at issue is the extraordinary incompetence exhibited by government in exercising their authority and in administering these laws
Not quite Katz. Andrews alleged bumbling was with the immigration laws. As far as I know, the government didn’t need to assist the police with the anti-terror laws
Incorrect.
Salted throughout accounts of the Haneef affair are several references to both Ruddock and Andrews having access to information that may have swung Haneef’s bail hearing in favour of remand. This remand was being sought on the authority of the anti-terror laws.
Haneef is in Bangalore today because the Crown could not achieve remand.
The Crown did not achieve remand because its representatives did not use information that was in the possession of Ruddock and Andrews.
If this information had been used effectively, Andrews would not have been compelled to withdraw Haneef’s visa.
Ruddock and Andrews must be sacked.
I should have been clearer in what I meant by ineptitude. But basically the politicizing of the intelligence/law enforcement agencies regardless of party leanings will harm Australia’s counter-terrorism activities.
Sounds a bit tenuous now that you’ve set it out like that – doesn’t it?
Everyone:
Okay, if SBS Dateline was ambushed with a dodgy police dossier in Bangalore -how, by whom, for what purpose, who/what was the real target of such an ambush?
GummoTrotsky [on previous thread]:
Meant to compliment you on your Gummo’s Razor – excellent tool for assessing government behavior.
Nabakov [on previous thread]:
Views formed by close association with those who saw their own countries turned into dictatorships – it can happen here too.
Now we are informed that the “dossier” is crap (as was obvious) and that Haneef has no link with al-Qaeda (except for the allegation in the mystery “dossier”) link
Some additional questions:
* Who stands to benefit from pubic perceptions that Haneef is actually guilty, but the Government & Keystone cops just cannot actually prove it?
* How is this issue polling with the punters in the key (Liberal) marginal seats?
* Who yesterday “defended the handling of the case and said the AFP had been unfairly criticised.”? Clue: Prime Minister John Howard
So if the Government is not responsible for the production of the dossier – which is likely as that could bring them down – it is someone who is keen to bolster their cause and make out they are “tough on terror”, “vigilant”, “on the ball” etc (all the things that they are not!)
Ruddock, Andrews and Howard must be sacked for telling porkies, breaching the separation of powers (interfering with the judicial system), for compromising Australia’s ability to combat real terrorism, and for being incompetent.
If you like administration via crisis management and self-exculpatory leaks, then so be it.
This is simply another face of the panic mode of the Howard Clique in its final weeks of decay:
a. Mismanagement of Aboriginal welfare and destruction of property rights in the Northern Territory.
b. Pork barrel hospital politics. Is Devonport unique, or not?
c. Panic stricken application of bandaids to WorkChoices, a program which everyone knows has ripped a huge hole below the waterline in the fast-disappearing Liberal Party.
Malcolm Fraser on the separation of powers issues & concerns about the erosion of democracy: link
March on the police state. . .
Spiros
Ah, newsflash luvvie. This is no “allusion.” It is very real. Islamist doctors are at the centre of global terrorism. Time to put away your fairytales, and get real. Live in the now. One of them just snuffed it in a Glasgow hospital.
For those history students like JG who also don’t understand the allusion, here’s some information on the original doctors’ plot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors'_plot
Mark,
There is no article listed in the Wikipedia link you posted.
That’s weird, Frank. Try this link.
*snicker, snicker*
Peterc [at 8:25am]:
Thanks. Was wondering who benefitted – and who was intended to lose.
Next time Greenfield posts a tiresome little rant comparing the modern labour party – or anyone who supports any kind of state, for that matter – to stalinists, at least we can know how seriously to take his understanding of the evils of that time in history, eh?
I suppose it doesn’t help for him to know too much about it … Libertarianism is called “the Marxism of the Right,” after all…
Howard has refused Inquiry option and denied prior knowledge of dossier.
Kevin Andrews’ latest gaffe. And they’re reading all about it in India, which evidently has a very vibrant press:
Worryingly for the Howard Clique, the reptiles of the press were all over Andrews. It takes these lazy sods a while to smell blood, but when they do, it’s not a pretty sight.
Andrews must definitely be sacked.
I’m sure all this is really starting to damage our standing in the eyes of the world.
Steve:
Not only damaging our international credibility – would you send your son or daughter to study or work in such a silly country? – but cheering up and inadverently assisting the real terrorists.
It doesn’t make any sense at all from the day Andrews intervened. By the time Federal Parliament sits next week, I think Andrews will be looking like a very silly person who is due for a stint on the back bench waiting for the judgment of the voters. A minister putting himself in the position of aiding real terrorists by calling wolf every second day is not a pretty sight.
Had he allowed in, or turned a blind eye to, an actual terrorist, he could be said to be aiding real terrorists.
By being tough on terrorists or terrorism suspects, he is the OPPOSITE of aiding terrorists.
Wake up & smell the gum leaves fellers!
I wonder whether this development will clear Haneef, or will Andrews now accuse him of causing his Cousin’s death ?
He has had plenty of opportunity to explain himself and has failed to do so. He has no option to come clean or resign.
Steve:
No. No. A more fitting penalty would be to force him to remain Minister for Dodgy Visas and Refugee Walloping.
His toughing it out on behalf of his boss earns him the Richard Cranium Award for 2007 – a hands down [or up
] winner.
Don’t tell us tell Andrews.
More worrying for the Howard clique is the attrociously shonky diction of all the dingbats in the cushy cubby.
” I mean I think people can still picture in their minds that the vehicle in flames, crashing into the airport at Glasgow. And nobody has or can deny what is obviously an association between that”.
Pollie speak meaning – we say we know all, but we know bugger all.
You understand me, don’t I.
More overseas fallout. Andrews, Howard and Ruddock are trashing Australia’s reputation. The naked politics of it all are being widely reported.
No racial discrimination against Dr Haneef: Australia, news.oneindia.in
News – Cleared Haneef Leaves Australia, Al Jazeera
udicial probe not needed in Haneef case: Howard, NDTV
This isn’t sustainable. Andrews intervention is a really sore point. Time for the backbench.
Going for two letters. C for chump and A for Arse
By being *
tcough* on terrorists or terrorism suspects, he is theOAPPOSITE of aiding terrorists.Paul Kelly in his regular ‘Lets prop up the Government’s rates when newspoll is being taken’ routine’ makes a goose of himself by trying to defend the indefensible Andrews.
Oh,yes it is Kelly and only someone intent on manipulating Newspoll would claim otherwise.
Mark/Katz
You two get just stranger and stranger. Do you really think somebody, such as myself, who has shown many times here my fascination with the anti-Semitic roots of Marxist and Left-wing thinking that I am not all over the Stalinist Doctor’s Plot? Please.
You two have already been silly enough to opine on things of which you know zip – Camille Paglia and REAL plotting and bombing Islamic doctors – only to run to Wikipedia to cover your asses. Now you do it again.
Once more. Miranda Devine has no need to “allude” to anything. For you see, unlike the Leftist anti-Semitic hysteria of the mid 20th century, in 2007 there are real doctors, who are not only really plotiing, but also really sploding. Do catch up.
I see, it’s all Camille Paglia’s fault now?
Mark
Heh, heh. There is none so blind…..;)
The Greenslade defence: I’m not as stupid as I appear to be.
adrian
Wll hah bloody hah, chuckles.
Greenfield defence: He is as stupid as he appears to be
Greenfield aspiration: To be more stupid than he appears to be.
Now, remember, folks, we’re a nice polite friendly blog.
Obsessions are always fascinating for the obsessed.
Greenfield input = go for the personal, side-track the thread and watch it fizzle out into pointless ideological personal prejudice.
Of course, when there is real action required on dealing with the aftermath of real terrorism, the Howard Government, and Downer if particular, goof off and do nothing because their is no wedge and no votes
[link]
Peterc: thanks for the link to the article on the Rigg case. What a disgrace. And hopefully, another nail in the coffins of Ratty, Dolly, et al‘s careers…
Of course Mark, but when people lump us in with anti-semites under the wafer-thin cover of ‘roots of left-wing thinking’…well I’m sure you understand.
dear ck and others before.
Best to ignore the insults and invective – merely the tactics of those who seek to sabotage free debate and the quest for understanding. After a while you will notice the same interference pattern wherever people look for the truth.
The first thing to look for is a complete lack of verifyable facts, the second is an attack on personal belief. ( and an extension to Marxism/Lenin/Hitler/Bob bloody Dylan and lefty wank).
It’s just a another speed bump on the road. Just proceed.
Well, yes indeed.
Oh terrific. Comon-sense rears ugly head.
Wonder why Haneef hasn’t taken the opportunity to tell the world what those chatroom conversations were REALLY about?
Any one of his press conference appearances in India was a perfect opportunity to for him to put
into “context”.
Been wondering about those press conferebces nyself SATP, like why he’s never bothered to explain why he tried to contact the British rozzers on four occassions. He certainly is quite devious.
Wake up and smell your socks.
If only Kevin Andrews had taken notice of SATP’s excellent advice. He might have helped Mr Howard claw back a really very serious opinion poll deficit.
Why, oh why, are our politicians so silly?
It’s beginning to look like the coalition is so out of touch that they can not even work out who is on their side any more and good advice is just being totally ignored.
Hmm, some commenters seem to have missed the point.
Obtuse by design or just plain stupid?
The motivation for trying to phone the old bill has been satisfactorily explained from the start. Though conspiracy minded people here could think of another reason for the calls if they put their mind to it.
But then again a broad minded and an inquisitive mind might be asking too much from the average LP’er.
Hat tip to casey
Along with Dr Haneef, if Andrews had an opportunity, he’d deport Mickey Mouse!
At the moment there is a vicious turf war being waged in the Liberal Party between the remaining moderates and the Christian Right.
John Howard appears to believe that his continued leadership prospects depend upon support from the Christian Right.
It would therefore be impolitic for Howard to remove Andrews from the ministry, no matter how crazed are his beliefs, nor how clumsy are his actions.
The Liberal Party is therefore shackled to Andrews because Andrews’ survival is closely associated with Howard’s survival, at least until the election.
Andrews must be sacked.
But that won’t happen until Howard is dumped.
Which “satisfactory explanation” are you referring to, Steve (ATP) – that Haneef was cunningly trying to cover his involvement in planning a botched terrorist attack or that he actually wanted to explain to the rozzers how his SIM card came (not) to be in one of the cars?
That first one sounds very conspiracy minded to me.
Wow SATP, your misleading interpretations of the chatroom convo arent at all motivated by your desire to maintain your rage are they?
How did the chatroom script released by Andrews:
become, according to you:
Sneaky sneaky SATP. Dont be putting yet more nonsensical rubbish in peoples mouths. “Ok I flee tonight” -get a grip SATP – as if any “terrorist” worth his salt would be chatting on the net telling his brother he would ‘fleeing tonigh”.
In response to his clarification of what was said in that chat Haneef has said:
When we see the full text is dependent, as Peter Russo has loudly told everyone, when the AFP release the transcript to the defence team.
(all the quotes from SMH
Andrews still damaging us overseas.
Its the “coalition of the swilling” with no prizes for guessing what they are drinking. . .
Keelty is still “bricking it in” – his modus operandi appear to be “the best from of defence is offence”
In today’s Australian, he supports Andrews and canes the media (the bungles and misinformation are all the media’s fault apparently)
This is looking more and more like an unaccountable police state to me. They are still verballing Haneef. So now I think Ruddock, Howard, Andrews AND Keelty should all be sacked.
[Link] for above quotes.
Andrews still veraballing Haneef. [link]
So if you have been detained and interrogated for an extended period and you go home it is very suspicious. I find the logic implausible. Put yourself in Haneef’s shoes. . .
Casey, perhaps my translation from the original Urdu is not as precise as that which Kevin Andrews had access to.
Or are you just another for whom procedure is more important than outcome? Plenty of those at LP.
Why doesn’t Haneef tell the world what they were really talking about? Haneef’s statements that the “full transcript” will reveal the exchange is innocent indicates that he has a good recollection of the conversation.
All he has to do is tell us what he WAS talking about. Not difficult.
Steve, that link is NOT to “Andrews damaging us overseas” it is to some racist journalist with a chip on their shoulder about western countries.
Read the Age sometime, or the Sydney Morning Treason, you’ll get plenty of the same.
Steve. Given you’re struggling with translating the transcript from English into English, I think you can give the Urdu a rest.
Gosh Anthony, & only in the last day or so someone on this site was saying how precise my English is!
Or are you just another for whom the procedure is more important than the outcome?
If the best any of the Bin Laden groupies in here can come up with is I used slightly different words, then I can retype my post of 12:52am on the 5th.
THEN you will have to address the substance, not the procedure.
Which if you weren’t obtuse, is what you would have done to begin with.
Obviously, just joking. The Urdu translating is obviously the only outcome that matters.
SATP
You know very well by adding your adjectival embellishments you completely change the meaning to suit you. It is indeed a fact that you would subsume “procedure” (read truth) for outcome. If your novelistic interventions werent so funny, I would say you were being wilfully dishonest sometimes Steve.
But what i would like to know is why you havent seen the eternal footman looking over the content of your posts, then holding your coat and snickering, like everyone else has….especially when you translate english into english…..(*snickers in unison)
Well now you mention it Steve, that’s a bit out of character, maybe you were just deliberately bullshitting then.
PPP=PPP Steve.
Piss Poor Preparation= Piss Poor Performance.
Anyway, we have seen the outcome from your side of politics,SATP. A stumbling bumbling ballsup from Andrews, Ruddock, Downer,Abbott and Howard and the longer this fiasco drags on the more disingenuous they appear.
“My side of politics” Steve? Please state why you feel that is “my” side of policts.
You ain’t the smartest commenter on this site are you? Not by a longshot. There are plenty of sick puppies, & on the margins the usual website fringe of semi-looneys. But get a grip, don’t be thrown into that category.
But you have done it yourself. You won’t be able to find anything to link me to any side of politics. Sometimes it is better to not open your mouth isn’t it? Hehehe….
Anyway all that’s left now is a Ministerial resignation or two or a nice old electoral wipeout they can take their pick.
Oh, lackaday!
How the wheels are falling off the Howard-beset Liberal Party.
Just how many unhappy campers are there in the Liberal Party these days?
How ironic it is that this revolt is the direct result of one of Mr Howard’s patent wedges.
If that is an example of good english then I am surprised.
For which SATP offers precisely no explanation, reference, quote, citation, link, or mad conspiracy theory.
Nice try mate, but really you’re argument’s about as solid as the gushing outflow from a pig processing factory.
Haneef’s lawyer is back in town and keen to sue a few Government ministers over the bungling apparently so that should give them something to do after politics. They can go back to where they started – fighting other lawyers.
Heneef explains the chat – SMH today:
“Dr Haneef said his brother, who was reading BBC reports of the car bombings while they were chatting, was referring to the fact that the media had not discovered his links with two of the suspects, Kafeel and Sabeel Ahmed. Dr Haneef had given his SIM card to Sabeel, a second cousin, when he left Britain in July last year.
“[My brother] was just referring to the BBC website,” Dr Haneef said. “He had got information that there were some problems with my SIM card from Sabeel’s mum. He was just reassuring me.”
My God the Haneef saga how it does go on. I have never seen the transcripts of a trial by blog this must be kinda unique for L.P…Now I know this whole saga has been a cock up,and the coppers involved would probably serve the community better as lollipop wardens on a kiddies school crossing some where.And as for Andrews and co they are of course playing politics with this issue, and Lord Haw Haw Downer should be sacked for his comments to the media, not for what he said, but for coming across as an upper class petulant ponce.
Now I know like most lefty’s of which I am one, know we are bringing some of the terrorist shit storm down on our own heads, cause killing thousands of innocent Iraq women and children from 30000ft, seems to make the victims a tad angry and they want a bit of pay back.However,having said all that, Haneef if found to have a connection to some terrorist organization responsible for killing people, should be tied to a chair and shot, or if preferred dropped through a trap door with a nice piece of hemp round his neck.I am just sorry that one of the other controversial figures of late didn’t get the same treatment. Anyhoo if any of yous is a bit tender about dispatching these bastards, I will do it for free.
Oh gawd, are luvvies STILL pushing this garbage.
Katz
Indeed. Time to give the Rudd-led Liberal Party a go, hey what?
They’re all rascals JG.
I have little time for any government. In case you haven’t noticed, I’m not a social democrat by any stretch of the imagination.
Howard has distinguished himself as a lying, canniving, obsequious, mendacious, hypocritical, dog-whistling, wedging rascal.
Howard has presided over a time when my net worth has vastly increased.
But enough is enough.
I wonder if it’ll be as easy under Rudd. I’m ready for new challenges.
Shanahan confirms the Howard / Andrews position and tactics on Haneef: it was poll driven and did play in their favour – but not enough.
[link]
So what is right or wrong doesn’t matter, nor does the separation of powers doctrine, nor does the Australian Constitution, nor does human rights.
The only thing that matters to team Howard is getting votes, by any means possible.