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39 responses to “Something else to worry about”

  1. Thomas Paine

    Well that took my mind off the GFC.

    Basically such an event would send us back to a mechanical world to start all over again. Most jobs would be redundant and the farmers the new squires.

    I would assume weapon systems would also be broken thus super powers not so super.

    Time to find a quiet little plot of land with some chickens and veges, far from the maddening crowd.

  2. Bingo Bango Boingo

    Madding. But yours still makes a lot of sense.

    BBB

  3. Jarrah

    Thomas Paine, I assume military hardware would be the most resilient – superpowers have been worried about EMP weapons for a long time, and likely have a good proportion of their systems hardened against such an event. It’s possible only the superpowers have any real protection, and so the plasma would do most damage to lesser militaries, and thus widen the power gap, not lessen it.

  4. Brian

    I was thinking a few months food supply in store and the capacity to grow our own. It’s not very likely but if it did happen you’d think there would be social breakdown and millions of deaths.

  5. Steve D

    @BBB – no, I agree with Thomas, the “maddening” crowd. :)

  6. Laura

    Start saving seeds, install a tank if you haven’t already.

  7. Huggybunny

    It may amaze you all to know that there is only one type of electrical transmission system that is (most likely) immune to such a disturbance. The Huggybunny global underground and sea High Voltage DC power transmission system.
    It is a serious problem, a small disturbance in 1989 took out part of the Quebec power system.
    Interestingly, the telegraph systems in the 19Th century were able to operate without batteries during solar storms- at least until they too were damaged.
    The damage caused to the High Voltage AC transmission systems from a big solar storm would be immense. They would simply explode and burn up along the entire length of the afflicted system.
    This is an entertaining account of the consequences:
    http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/sechtml/storms.html
    Huggy

  8. Bernice

    Oh my god – the end of blogging as we know it.

  9. Pavlov's Cat

    Don’t forget about wind.

  10. Helen

    I’m training my pigeon now Bernice.

  11. Required

    Yes, but how can we blame neoliberals for this?

  12. Liam

    Actually, PC, a wind generator like that, if it still produces AC power, would be toast just like any other appliance in a corona storm. The propellers might keep turning, but as for the transformer, don’t stand near it during the storm unless you like loud noises and you feel you’ve got too many fingers.
    Sorry, there’s no avoiding the cold hard fact that we are all hopelessly doomed. UTTERLY HOPELESSLY DOOMED.

  13. FDB

    PC – dunno if the copper coils in turbines will be any less prone to melting than those in transformers. I guess it’s probably thicker wire, but still…

    Appropriately (or is it ironically) enough, it might only be solar PV that would survive. No coils, and good honest DC current.

  14. Pavlov's Cat

    Better train more than one, Helen. You might need to eat them.

    My first thought on reading this story was ’1859, eh — I wonder what Dickens said.’ He would have had a pithy remark for the occasion, I’m sure, and he loved this kind of stuff.

  15. Paul Burns

    Blaming the neo-libs? neo-libs = electricity privatisation = obscene chase for profits =inability to create infrastructure to withstand solar storm ’cause business won’t spend any money on it = solar storm destroys modern world as we know it.Easy, Required @ 11.

  16. David Rubie

    Liam wrote:

    UTTERLY HOPELESSLY DOOMED

    Not me. I have a backup plan

  17. Brian

    Last night I didn’t google other sources. Wikipedia has the information under Geomagnetic storm. It seems, Helen, that the pigeons lose their sense of direction!

    It’s not too good for satellites or astronauts in space. Lethal for both, it seems.

    There’s more here from NASA. It seems that as far as can be told, and they really don’t have enough information, that these things may show up every 500 years on average. Carrington in 1859 is said to be nearly double the next most severe in the past 500 years.

    For such severe event that’s disturbingly frequent.

    I’m wondering whether there would be any damage to transformers if the power was turned off. If not our best bet may be earlier warning systems, and back up beyond one aging satellite. Would we be OK if we put everything underground (huge expense)?

    PC, I believe there is an incredible story about how Carrington discovered what was going on and what happened to him then. I did hear it at some length a couple of years ago on the radio, but can’t remember the detail.

  18. Lurker

    Good work, Brian.

    I knew that if I lurked long enough, I would see the words plasma, solar wind, solar plasma here at LP.

    But what a horrid prospect. It’s one thing to enjoy reading about the astrophysics of the solar corona, solar photosphere, sunspots, filaments, Alfven waves, solar wind when the Sun’s surface is quiescent or mildly active.

    I never thought this physics could link to a planetary catastrophe. So thank you very much!!

  19. Brian

    Well, Lurker, I tend to specialise in the scary stuff. So the pleasure is mine, as it were!

  20. TimT

    Bugger. No more internet then?

  21. Mercurius

    So…I shouldn’t sign up for that tempting 24-month mobile plan then?

  22. Liam

    Mercurius, the lesson is that you should sign up for it, especially if you can’t afford it. As the TISM song goes:

    Sometime in the next ten thousand years a comet’s going to wipe out all trace of Man
    I’m banking on it to come before my end of year exams…

  23. moz

    I suspect that the only reason hospital generators might survive is that they’re typically in the basement of reinforced concrete buildings so they’ll be somewhat shielded. A generator is just an electric motor, so anything that destroys ones will destroy the other. Likewise, HVDC systems generally use transformers on the AC sides (at each end) and if they go you’ve lost the link. Not to mention that they’re only useful if something is generating power to feed through them.

    Having a CME hit the earth today would be interesting in terms of what electrical stuff survives. I’m betting that quite a lot of small, simpler stuff will survive, possibly including some non-obvious stuff like cellphones – they might just be too small to generate enough voltage to cause a problem.

    The good thing is that my bicycle would survive, so I’d still have transport.

  24. Huggybunny

    MOZ, The geomagnetic storms produce large dc currents in transmission lines and distribution systems. These current saturate the transformers and generators that are connected to the transmission lines and the distribution system and can also cause flash-overs on the line insulators. Its not so much the energy from the geomagnetics that is the problem it is the dc that saturates the inductive components and the energy in the system itself fries the components.
    Dc transmission is already designed to cope with dc current (how amazing) so it is less sensitive to saturation effects. However you are correct about the interface transformers, they could saturate.
    Hospital generators will survive as they are normally disconnected from the hospital distribution system and switched off.
    There are measures that can be taken to protect transformers but transmission lines are another order of magnitude more difficult.
    Serious consideration is being given to dc distribution systems by groups within the power industry. It has a number of advantages; not the least being that it can be reticulated underground with very low losses and the intrinsic efficiency is higher than AC.
    Huggy

  25. roger

    I am glad someone also mentioned supervolcanoes. These are what we really need to worry about, and most of us will be well and truly cactus when one blows its top; and it wont be a pretty end either.

  26. Paul Norton

    Here’s another take on this topic.

  27. Liam

    And here’s your perfect site, Brian, though I’m sure you’re quite aware of all of the scenarios therein.

  28. Brett

    For up-to-date reports on the space weather over Australia, see:

    http://www.ips.gov.au/Space_Weather

    Though what they really need is a single threat level, which they can set to “high” and then forget about.

  29. Debbieanne

    Paul @ 26. Coincidently I have just borrowed book 3 in this series, from the library. Really enjoyed the first two. In that scenario we(planet earth) had plenty of warning and was able to set up the solar shields.
    Thanks Brian, scary, but interesting.

  30. Brian

    Thanks, folks. It’s a wonderful thing, teh internets and blogging. You get so much back. So enjoy it while we can.

    Closer to home, I’ve had a smaller catastrophe, not terminal but annoying. I had a bit of a prang in my old ute on Monday and the buggers won’t repair it. Not worth it, they say. So now I have to go and find a new secondhand ute!

  31. jo

    I thought the nano-machines are going to turn us into grey goo within 20 minutes of something.

    Thanks Brian, the purchase of a rural bolt hole with purpose built fall-out shelter, solar panel/windmill and lots of tinned food has jumped a few places on the to-do list.

    With lots of guns and ammo of course, to keep out them pesky city types who wouldn’t listen!!!

  32. Lefty E

    Meh. I’d rather worry about something we can influence, viz, global warming.

    If this shit happens, it happens.

  33. jo

    Brian@30 – bugger!

  34. roger

    But Lefty, the fun of this is to worrying about what you cant do nuttin about! That’s why I’m glad Brain mentioned supervolcanoes. It doesn’t matter how much I try to make people take the threat posed by then seriously no one does!

    What I’ve learnt from this is that there is a lot of serious things around that could completely screw up life as we know it (including global warming), however worrying about it aint gonna change it. We can, however, as you indicate, try and do our own little bit to change what we can- save worrying for the things we can’t change.

  35. Brian

    Actually I’ve had a half-finished draft of a post on supervolcanos in the bin for ages. Bugger global warming, I think I’ll have to dig it out and finish it.

  36. roger

    You beauty Brian!

  37. Brian

    jo @ 33, thanks, it’s a bit exciting. I’m letting my fingers do the walking on the internet today.

    @ 31, growing up under the shadow of the bomb in the 50s and 60s, living in Brisbane I used to mentally work on a plan B in case civilisation was wiped out and Brisbane was left standing. I reckoned we could just about walk to the old farm, only 400 km away.

    Then my brother sold it and moved north of Rockhampton…

  38. Bernice

    Right – Moz @ 23 – you’re the hope and future of the blogsphere. When it happens, you’ve got to get on that bike, delivering those – what are they called? Those bits of paper with writing on them? Letters?

  39. Paul Burns

    btw, about a week or so ago we just got missed by a very, very large piece of space rock.Just sayin’.