Well, it seems that swine flu has arrived for-real in Australia, with over 100 cases around the country, many of whom have caught the virus here. Children seem to be most susceptible. But most of the cases to date seem to be mild, with only four people hospitalized. This all poses some rather difficult questions for health authorities. In this Age article, some experts call for for the serious consideration of the cancellation of public events, on the basis that it has to be done now to be of any use:
Epidemiologist Professor Raina MacIntyre, a member of the Pandemic Influenza Advisory Group, said banning sporting events, concerts and other mass gatherings should be considered.
“You really have to implement those social-distancing measures right at the beginning of the epidemic for them to be effective, and they can be highly effective,” said Professor MacIntyre.
That’s undoubtedly true. But given the very mild nature of the flu, are such measures worse than the disease itself?
Director of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology for ACT health Professor Peter Collignon seems to think that the current H1N1 outbreak is no worse than the seasonal flu we get every year:
“It is actually similar to what’s been circulating for the last 90 years – it is a H1N1 strain which was first introduced around 1918,” he said.
“We do need to take this seriously but it really is no different to what we see every year,” he said.
“Basically every year we get a pandemic because the strains we have anyway reconfigure a bit and spread from the northern hemisphere to us and around the world.
“And every year, predictably, we have a few thousand people in Australia who die.”
I can’t say I envy the public health officials – and politicans – making the calls on this one. Impose bans, and there’s going to be tens of thousands of annoyed AFL fans and concertgoers who from their perspective weren’t risking anything more than a couple of days in bed, and most probably not even that. Not to mention, of course, businesses whose already strained cash flow is likely to suffer further if large gatherings are banned. Don’t impose them, and there will undoubtedly be photos of grieving, angry, blame-seeking parents in the tabloids after, inevitably, a child dies from the swine flu, regardless of the fact that this routinely happens from seasonal influenza every single winter.
So what should we do? Go out and catch it, of course!
Only one way to prevent serious morbidity from a possible more damaging strain in the future is to catch this mild version now, priming your immune system to fight a later infection. Since there’s no vaccine available, and there won’t be for atleast 9 – 12 months, this is the only way to immunise yourself against our newest flu strain.
I’m not going to comment on how best to acquire an infection… maybe go out and kiss someone with a runny nose.
(I should also say that there is a slight risk of death from doing this, and I take no responsibility for your actions in catching H1N1.)
Yep, it’s no different than what we see every year. The fuss which is being made is beyond me. I particularly hate the media outlets which have used the word ‘toll’ to describe the rising number of cases. No-one has died or been taken seriously ill. Probably people will die, because people die from the ‘flu every winter. But we choose not to notice it that much. Banning mass gatherings. Snort!
By the way, Robert, Minister Roxon says that 4 people have been hospitalised so far.
Thanks for the update.
Right now, I’m working in an office and sharing whatever germs are going around, just like hundreds of thousands of Australians. In three hours I’ll head for the airport to join the tens of thousands of Australians flying on any given day. While in Sydney, I’ll attend conferences, restaurants, sporting events, bars. I say it’s hopeless – there’s no way to contain an epidemic in a country like Australia.
What should we do? PANIC! Anybody confirmed with Swine Flu should be immediately transferred to that cruise ship off the Queensland coast. It’s even convenient for other countries, as it could sail around the world collecting The Infected.
I like the way you’re thinking Greg. Can it be called the Plague Ship? The rest of us should just run around panicking, and panic buying, and being intermittently grateful that we don’t have Shark Flu.
F***, f***, f*** @#$@&*#!!
As the parent of a year 12 student, this is just. what. I. Need.
Not just the worry of a kid becoming ill, but the odium of having to limit her social life and render the year even more stressful for her.
the current H1N1 outbreak is no worse than the seasonal flu we get every year:
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This runs contrary to everything I’ve read about the Swine Flu before. What’s been said about it is that it’s a strain to which we have no immunity. If that’s true then such measures as isolation must be implemented for the sake of public health. That’s a no-brainer.
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But if it’s no worse than ordinary flu then what’s the big deal? Why is it these days that we can never get a straight answer. That there always appears to be some irreconcilable debate about what should really be matter-of-fact?
Too late now. Thanks to the stuff up by the NSW government it’s in the wild out here now. This alone should be a call for an early election.
Adrien: here we have two separate issues about virology.
1: H1N1 is a new influenza virus that we haven’t seen before. So you are correct, we have no immunity.
2: Data available about the spread of H1N1 shows that it is relatively mild in its effects on people who contract it. It is also clear that, unlike seasonal flu, the people most at risk from H1N1 are adolescents (hence school closures).
The danger comes if this new flu virus mutates into a much more fatal version, which may or may not happen any time over the next few years.
So, at the moment we are all naive to this virus so we are likely to become infected if exposed. Thankfully, the mortality rate has been low so far. But, it is possible that we may see a second wave of infections which has a much higher mortality rate, which is why it is important for the spread and evolution of this virus to be tracked.
Hence my advice to go out and get sick now, instead of later.
Laura, I’ve already seen the ‘Plague Ship’ headline (subsequently removed) in a feed for news.com.au.
I’ve just had the flu. Don’t know which one, don’t really care.
At least our various Health Depts get to practice their pandemic strategies on something relatively innocuous.
Hence my advice to go out and get sick now, instead of later.
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Righty-o. I’m to hang around high schools and ask people to cough on me.
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You think this might create a misunderstanding?
Just don’t do it if you already have the flu and end up being the one who mutates it into something much worse!
Andos, “a biologist” told me that if the current strain mutates, then having previously caught the current strain won’t be a help. This strain will not confer immunity to any (potential, future) mutation.
If you enjoy kissing people with runny noses, by all means go out and take your pleasures…. but don’t tell folk you’re doing it as a health measure, either private or public.
Swine flu wasn’t really from the pigs, it was an experiment by rabbits to reduce the plague of feral humans – in retaliation for calicivirus of course. . .
Do? Do the same as we do with any flu – don’t panic, wash your hands and don’t go to work if you have it. Generally influenza has a mortality rate of around .1% (that is 1 death for every 1000 infections). H1N1 is showing an apparent mortality rate of .7%, which is higher (7 in every 1000 die) but only takes into account the known diagnoses – that is many more people may have had the flu in a mild form and not sought medical care. The higher mortality rate may also be the result of the delay between the emergence of the disease and recognition of it – so far there have only been 95 deaths worldwide.
The main concern with this disease is the lack of immunity in the population. Once a sufficient part of the population have acquired immunity either through having the disease or through vaccination (once one is released) it will be a less serious problem than at present.
I’m still intrigued by the significant number of deaths that occurred in Mexico.
I realise that the initial reported figure of 80 plus may have been subsequently reduced due to ‘other causes’ but still wonder if anyone knows more. Were they predominantly young and/or immunologically compromised?
Anyone who has visited the old Sydney Quarantine Station at North Head and then followed the modern high tech solutions at airports and vetting cruise ships will have a re-newed appreciation of the old ways used to confront the ‘unknown’.
The MSM’s part in this unfolding sicko-drama is not entirely dissimilar to Aesop’s, The Boy Who Cried Wolf. So intensively and continuously were we beaten about the head with the threat of the whole country keeling over and dropping dead before it had even arrived here, that now it has actually landed on our bogan shores and begun to spread its snotty little green slime about, everyone seems pretty much . . like, yeah? So? WGAF?
Having said that, I would encourage everyone to wash their hands a lot, hold their breath as much as possible and wear gloves on public transport.
“Too late now. Thanks to the stuff up by the NSW government it’s in the wild out here now. This alone should be a call for an early election.”
This is idiocy. There are enough reasons to criticise the NSW government, but this is not it.
Even presuming the cruise ship that had infected people on board was the only way that the infection could ever enter Australia (in itself an absurd proposition), the fact that NSW health officials made a line-ball judgement call which in retrospect was wrong is hardly the fault of the NSW government.
Honestly, some people just have an obsession with having to apportion blame, even when it makes no sense.
1. Just because a post has impressively numbered dot points doesn’t mean the contents are authoritative ( see 11)
2. RE: “H1N1 is a new influenza virus that we haven’t seen before…we have no immunity”.. is complete porkies.
From a CSL heads-up, (the folks who Roxon has just tasked to produce 10 million doses of vaccine, so let’s hope they aren’t confused):
The sooner the ABC gets an authoritative documentary on the natural, and unnatural, history of influenza viruses, the better. Otherwise people will be believing what they read in blogs.
Does anyone know anyone with a hundred or so ferrets?
Pablo: that’s an excellent question, and I don’t know the answer.
H1N1 is a new strain. There is no immunity built up.
Every year thousands get the flu. Most don’t get it because of immunity built up over the years.
The older you are, the longer you have been around, the more flu strains you will probably have been exposed to and built up immunity.
You can build up immunity to a new strain like H1N1. Or you can build up immunity in a flash (or a prick) with an injection.
You can’t get an injection against Mexican Porkie Flu (no Sol telstra jokes please)because they don’t have a vaccine yet.
Even when they have a vaccine it will take a while to build up supplies. Say late September at least when our Southern winter is over.
The normal old no porcine flu can knock you around for a week or so but it doesn’t kill too many people because the aforementioned built up or injection acquired immunity.
However a new strain of Bacon or N1H1 flu can infect everyone and anyone because there is no immunity possible. (unless you go to your local homeoapath – but thats another story/rant – *wink*)So all those with compromised immune systems through old age, young age, HIV, cancer treatments and various illnesses and vunerabilities etc etc are in fact in a fair bit of bloody danger if they get Chitlin Flu. And they are likely to get it if it spreads.
So
Everyone is vulnerable to H1N1 – except for those few who have it already.
Impact
Already hospitals emergency departments and GP practices are experiencing up to DOUBLE the demand they usually experience.
These hospitals and GPs are normally full and waiting times are longer than one would wish WITHOUT teh current Piggie Flu demand.
There is no magic pool of underemployed health staff to ramp up these clinics to meet demand.
So staff will be taken away from an already stressed system to deal with Piggie Flu.
Staff(doctor, nurse receptionist, cleaner etc etc) have to put on gloves, masks, eye protection and gowns just to take a swab and temp and give out Tamiflu. Thsi slows down work. In addition waiting rooms chairs, benches phones, toilets, door handles, etc have to be cleaned every hour or so to remove (potential infections) – this slows down work. The cleaners have to have extra training.
The special clinics being set up should be removed from other sick and vulnerable – eg those in emergency waiting rooms. What hospital do you know with a physically seperate building that just happens to be free.
In addition these “fresh” set up clinics have to have infrasrtcture, toilets, heating, internet, records, computers, phones, desks , treatments rooms, and EXTRA (duplicate) staff.
In addition theres extra demand on doctors from parents and carers who want certificates to justify time home from work. It goes on and on. And it will only get worserer.
Households only typically have 2 or 3 days food in store. Supernarkets only have 2 or 3 days supply instore.
It can all go pear shaped quickly.
Gotta go
Whilst normally I would say don’t panic,I am now saying,don’t get neurotic.But be careful,because the Public Health officials are the same doppel-gang that wants tooth decay fought by a dangerous additive to the water.And I am not sure wether in the 90 year period of pandemics Health officials have even strained their brains to see if the present immunity of the population is somehow superior to that of a lesser number in the population comparisons between the 90 year dates.If one assumes,that, the above is unnecessary to even speculate on,then what is it about the population mix today that allows for a confidence its just the pollies and other overpaid individuals finding their own good deeds from inside the goldfish bowl of TV. etc.!? Take therefore a punt on no-one maybe being right about the outcomes of this, thus with that reassurance,which isn’t really, then there is left the extra public activities of human mixing,and the private movings of behavioural limits,put on oneself by the necessity of understanding the problem of self and others.So start with salt in water gargles regularly throughout the day.As an addition from the advice from on high.I have left other thoughts at AnonymousLefty, who last night had come down with the dreaded Lurgie.And his occupation maybe hazardous to himself,so I wasn’t at all being cynical there. I wouldn’t want him to go before his alotted time,so take the problem seriously,but qualify it by sensible questions about immunity matters and what could weaken them further.
I recommend panic-looting. Who’s in? I’ll even throw in some feverish millennial chanting.
But seriously, n that: if said virus is currently mild, but may mutate – isnt there a chance that it might actually be a good thing to get, now – rather than later?
I guess immunity may not hold for the mutated form.
Talk about over-hyped.
So far there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that this is worse than any other normal flu virus.
No wonder the supermarkets are so busy! Luckily my mum’s habit of keeping a large pantry full (they lived through a “civil disturbance” where they couldn’t safely get out of the house for a few weeks) has rubbed off on me. Assuming the water supply stays on we’ll be able to survive for a few weeks in isolation
Ambigulous @ 15: that depends how soon we get a second wave. Being exposed to this virus will give you some protection against future mutations of this virus. You’re right, it won’t prevent all infection.
Danny @ 20: if this year’s influenza vaccination already had H1N1 coverage that would have conveyed immunity to the strain most recently from Mexico, then there would be no story and the media wouldn’t have spent the last three months talking about swine flu. What’s more, I (and anyone else who has been inoculated with this year’s flu vaccine) would be immune.
Your reasoning is inconsistent.
Influenza with H1N1 surface proteins has, of course, been around for a very long time. It was an H1N1 virus that was responsible for the ‘Spanish flu’ epidemic in 1918-19. The surface proteins of the virus can have innumerable forms and still be called H1N1, so being exposed to one H1N1 influenza virus doesn’t give you immunity to all past and future versions.
If you want more info, check out this article from New Scientist.
Danny@20 suggests “the sooner the ABC gets an authoritative documentary……..the better”. I agree with the sentiment but the ABC (or anybody else for that matter) would be reluctant to go to air with such a program at the moment. The current penchant for automatic blamegames would entrap the ABC if things overtake the current views. The Royal Commission on Bushfires is an example of something that is well intentioned in it’s very public approach but which is subject to the demands of the media for “meaty” news regardless of innuendo drawn and the damage done to the reputations of people who come forward. The comment of “tssk” above shows the pattern of ready blame. I’d love to be quarantined with my stack of books BUT only if I’m on the 70th Floor of a lush Sydney tower with room service as heard on ABC Radio.
Being in the older age group and with health complications I’m doing what I have always done and that is act sensibly, which is why I’m so old.
lefty e – if it mutates and there is a second round as there was with some of the big flu’s pandemics then the immunity from having the current dose is overcome by the mutation ….and it may be not only more vigorous in spreading itself around but also more nasty in symptoms and ability to knock people around.
From all reports the current H1N1 is not as bad in symptoms as a normal old flu we all know and love.
corection above @22
What I meant to say was:
You CAN’T build up immunity to a new strain like H1N1.
It’s like having a nut allergy, deliberately going into shock over walnuts, and then expecting to be able to eat cashews without trouble.
If being exposed to one flu virus would protect you from a mutation of that same flu virus, we would all have only got the flu once in our lives and then never again.
there is some talk around that not many or very few people over 60 have got the current Pig Flu – suggesting that perhaps 50 or so years ago there was a strain of H1N1 around.
For a good article about how catching an early wave of flu might protect you from a later wave, check out this from New Scientist about the 1918-19 flu pandemic:
1957?
FXH, it might be that the Pacific Dawn has a lower proportion of over-60s on it than the average cruise ship. I’ve tried to find out and hit the Pacific Dawn’s blog, which has had an amazing change in tone lately.
I have done a bit of stocking up at home as (being a librarian), I spend a lot of time being breathed on by the Great Unwashed Masses. I’m just hoping that people who DO develop flu-like symptoms will stay at home where they ought to this winter, instead of inflicting their germs on me.
Two things puzzle me:
1. Why is everyone willing this to be a killer pandemic when it is clearly just the flu?
2. Why is our health minister micromanaging this, giving multiple daily press conferences and providing analysis and advice as if she’s a public health-infectious disease-epidemiology specialist?
It’s the flu. Can we move on now please?
I’m wondering if I had it last week. I was pretty sick for about five days but it’s pretty much gone now. The day I returned to work there was a message on my machine from a student’s mother telling me that he had ‘something’ & they were all in quarantine. His younger brother goes to Mill Park Secondary. Also I’ve been squealing like a pig since roughly the time I got sick, which is apparently a pretty reliable sign.
Apparently if the unusually high number of the fatalities in Mexico are excluded, the mortality rate drops to approx 0.1 percent. That’s about the rate seen during the Hong Kong flu of 1968-69. Still not great.
I’m not going to worry just yet. There really hasn’t been time to collect reliable data. Who knows how many people around the world may have contracted the virus and just saw it through?
Just few minutes on Google turns up a range of contradictory statements from a whole bunch of epidemiologists. I’m not accusing them of failing to do their job. It’s just that their job is so bloody hard at the best of times. And being hounded by the sensation-seeking media doesn’t make it any easier.
Michael2: in the early days, when the reports out of Mexico were of healthy young people dying in significant numbers, that was scary.
As for why it’s still a big deal, see fxh’s comment. It might spread significantly more widely than a typical seasonal flu, which means that more vulnerable people (the very young, very old, and the immunocompromised) will be exposed to it. Some of them will inevitably die.
Furthermore, the number of simultanously sick people might be a significant disruption.
pablo @ 17, what I heard about Mexico was that the health of many was compromised because Mexico City is a large heavily polluted place, so their lungs are already full of crap.
There was an article in the “This week” section of New Scientist (not online) saying the Europeans were only testing if people with symptoms had come directly from Mexico or had been in contact with a known sufferer. Which means they don’t have a clue what’s going on there.
Also from New Scientist an intriguing article on detection technology. They use microphones in piggeries to detect coughing pigs, so why not use the same with us? Just put a microphone in everyone’s mobile phone and send a signal back to the authorities.
Or look what the Japanese are up to:
A feast for MolBiol propellerheads, inc an 18Mb
Seen one death star, you’ve seen ‘em all.
The hot-off-the-pre-press paper it comes from, sequence data last updated on May 28th, is at pdf text and figures .
So is this the future. Flu panic every year.
ban mass spectator sporting events! that is the best thing I’ve read on this blog for ages! flush away the opium of the masses!
but forget about the flu, who cares?
Laura
the other symptom is apparently a cute, curly tail. I’m too much the gentleman to suggest you check. Good luck!
For anyone rushing out for the face mask and tamiflu. Some interesting and good news from the ancient olive tree on this one, published in march, just before the current storm…
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Specifically in relation to the so-called swine-flu, H1N1 (and the now forgotten bird flu H5N1 as well).
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Japanese researchers have just published an article (abstract below) outlining how hydroxytyrosol, one of the main constituents and/or metabolites of olive fruit, virgin oil and leaf extracts, directly alters the form and function of numerous Type A influenza virus strains, including the dreaded swine flu. Making them non-functional, through some sort of direct mechanism (beating the virus out of shape essentially). Different to tamiflu, a broad effect not likely to suffer from any resistance?
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Previous research has found numerous olive constituents to be active against a range of viruses. Not to mention anti-oxidant, anti-inflammatory etc. There is a history of safe consumption of the fruit, oil and leaf preparations in traditional Mediterranean life stretching back millenia.
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The taxpayer is handing over millions for a tamiflu stockpile, and in some places where the olive tree has become a noxious weed, someone is paying a lot to try and get rid of them. With many thousands of olive trees being planted generally in Australia over recent years for fruit and oil production as well. We have more than enough of this natural resource with this aspect being largely ignored.
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As an added point of interest, a glass of red wine also increases your circulating hydroxytyrosol levels more than expected as well. Hydroxytyrosol is a natural metabolite of dopamine, and found naturally in circulation.
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So is a bag of olives and a glass of red wine a prescription for swine flu anyone could handle?
For medicinal reasons of course.
Olive leaf extracts are also widely available these days, and can of benefit in many ways.
There are other herbs that contain hydroxytyrosol or derivatives, or have been shown to be active against influenza virus strains as well.
————————————————————
Mechanism of the antiviral effect of hydroxytyrosol on influenza virus appears to involve morphological change of the virus
Antiviral Research
Article in Press, Corrected Proof – Note to users
doi:10.1016/j.antiviral.2009.03.002
Kentaro Yamadaa, et al.
accepted 11 March 2009.
Available online 24 March 2009.
Abstract
Hydroxytyrosol (HT), a small-molecule phenolic compound, inactivated influenza A viruses including H1N1, H3N2, H5N1, and H9N2 subtypes. HT also inactivated Newcastle disease virus but not bovine rotavirus, and fowl adenovirus, suggesting that the mechanism of the antiviral effect of HT might require the presence of a viral envelope. Pretreatment of MDCK cells with HT did not affect the propagation of H9N2 virus subsequently inoculated onto the cells, implying that HT targets the virus but not the host cell. H9N2 virus inactivated with HT retained unaltered hemagglutinating activity and bound to MDCK cells in a manner similar to untreated virus. Neuraminidase activity in the HT-treated virus also remained unchanged. However, in the cells inoculated with HT-inactivated H9N2 virus, neither viral mRNA nor viral protein was detected. Electron microscopic analysis revealed morphological abnormalities in the HT-treated H9N2 virus. Most structures found in the HT-treated virus were atypical of influenza virions, and localization of hemagglutinin was not necessarily confined on the virion surface. These observations suggest that the structure of H9N2 virus could be disrupted by HT.
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Is dopamine behind the health benefits of red wine?
Eur J Nutr. 2006 Aug;45(5):307-10. Epub 2006 Apr 3.
de la Torre R, Covas MI, Pujadas MA, Fitó M, Farré M.
Pharmacology Unit-IMIM, Institut Municipal d’Investigació Mèdica, Doctor Aiguader 80, 08003 Barcelona, Spain. rtorre@imim.es
BACKGROUND: The contribution of biologically active non-nutrient chemicals to the health benefits of the Mediterranean diet is controversial because of their low dietary concentrations. Hydroxytyrosol is a dopamine metabolite, and also a very active naturally occurring phenol compound in olive oil. AIM OF THE STUDY: To examine the disposition of hydroxytyrosol in humans, given that we discovered its presence in red wine in the frame of the study. METHODS: The pharmacokinetics of hydroxytyrosol from two clinical trials, designed to assess the short-term and postprandial effects of moderate doses of wine and olive oil in healthy volunteers, were compared. RESULTS: Despite a five-fold difference in the doses of hydroxytyrosol administered (0.35 mg for red wine and 1.7 mg for olive oil), urinary recoveries of hydroxytyrosol were higher after red wine administration. An interaction between ethanol and dopamine after red wine ingestion leading to the formation of hydroxytyrosol was observed. CONCLUSIONS: Biological effects after red wine ingestion should be re-examined on the basis of combined hydroxytyrosol concentrations from red wine and dopamine turnover.
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Of course this issue would have been handled more efficiently by a Howard government!!!!
On the maateship, we decide which pandemics enter our country, and the manner in which they come.
Top work there Adrian
@36
I’ll have a go. It’s like the Iraq war or the war on terror. It provides the central event for a story. Then all the protagonists can have a turn at finding the magic bean that solves the problem and returns the world to equilibrium. Hence we’ve seen not just the spread of the virus but a very rapid growth in the number of people infected by a desire to stand in front of a microphone and talk in a very serious voice about the grave measures that they are undertaking to protect the citizenry from WMDs, sorry Swine Flu.
Actually it should be WsMD.
I note that people saying ‘Oh pfft it’s just the flu’ seem to have absolutely no evidence to back this up, or to have read anything about the actual facts of the case, either about the genesis of this particular mutation, about the history of pandemics or about the science of their effects. I’m guessing these people will be the first to squeal (sorry), when this virus or a future one like it mutates as nastily as the 1918 flu, about how the government didn’t deal with it properly.
I see on this thread a lot of support of my theory that as we and the deteriorating MSM push further into the 21st century, and technology gets better and better at simulating truthiness, people are getting more and more confused about the difference between opinion and fact, including their relative worth.
Got a flu injection yesterday. Still alive, but I do have a runny nose. And a mate of mine in Sydney (at least I think he’s in Sydney – he might be in Brisbane – who I’ve only met on line,comes out of quarantine today.
Q. Can you catch the dreaded swine flu over teh internet? After all, it has viruses.
A medical acquaintance informs me that Australian medical authorities believe that with each generation of transmission away from host sources in Mexico and California, the flu is becoming less virulent.
However, they are watching out for mutations back towards the original, more virulent form.
In other words, small earthquake in Chile. Not many killed.
Good point about the distinction between opinion and fact Pavlov’s Cat.
Was thinking the same thing last night as ABC News gave us the opinions of a succession of experts, all of whom basically contradicted each other.
Part of the problem is that because we are all believed to have the attention spans of a 10 year old child, nothing is ever explained in any detail, including the qualifications and experience of these so called experts who are trotted out for their little soundbites.
How anyone is able to come to a reasonable conclusion is beyond me. Add into the mix the fact that on many issues, some people have a vested interest in confusing the issue (climate change?), it’s no wonder that many of us just tune out.
“..the magic bean that solves the problem”.
They’re called replikins.
adrian, I find that on most occasions after sharing on a thread like this I am much better placed to know what I think about any particular issue. This one is more difficult because of the complexity of the science.
Yes that’s true, Brian, particularly your climate posts!
But for people whose daily diet is the MSM, what hope have they got of making sense of anything?
I’ve just listened to a respiratory physician doing talkback. He was amazing. Some of the points.
We do need to get on top of this thing because we don’t know, pace Katz’s mate, because we really don’t know which direction the virus is going to head.
The average (median?) age of people getting it is 17, so it is highly likely that we’ve had a relative of the virus before.
A vaccine is due in August. The northern hemisphere will have a tricky decision as to whether they manufacture swine flu vaccine going into their flu season, or ordinary flu vaccine. They can’t do both.
In public places don’t touch ANYTHING, and after you haven’t touched anything don’t touch your face, eyes nose etc.
Wash all fruit and veg you buy, soapy water will do pretty well.
Don’t touch anyone and keep your distance.
Don’t take tammiflu(?) or Relenza unless you’ve got the disease, and then it’s best if you do within 48 hours.
Other potions and vitamins won’t do any proven good, but might do some harm. [I guess there is always the placebo effect.]
Don’t take this as gospel, consult your own physician, but be warned that doctors are among the worst at washing their hands!
You guys have wrong information about the vaccine and etc
I’ve read that
“Sanofi Pasteur said Monday it has won a $190 million order from the United States government to make a swine flu vaccine. Sanofi Pasteur, which operates flu vaccine production plants at Swiftwater, Pa., and in Val de Reuil, in France, said it could begin commercial production in June. And Pasteur was been given the sample virus from US CDC Authorities”
The spectrum of attitudes to this swine flu business appears to be the whole nine yards long and not to correlate to intelligence, which I find interesting — two very smart mates of mine are scoffing but a third is still gobsmacked, years later, at how under-prepared Australia was for the possible mutation/’second wave’ effect of avian flu. The ‘second wave’ phenomenon is something which, on this thread, only Andos at #11 seems to be aware of.
One of the scoffing mates went into hospital this morning for surgery and I drove her up there and took her in to be admitted. At the main entrance to the hospital was a trolley holding several containers of, erm, hospital-strength disinfectant handwash stuff with big signs everywhere saying one was required to use it before one went through the door. It didn’t take many seconds to calculate what might happen if a virus like this one spread through a hospital.
I’m not sure about this second wave business.
Wouldn’t it mean that we should all be contracting this current milder form asap, so we have at least partial immunity if it mutates for the worse?
FDB and Pav (and Andos), I heard on the radio that contracting the first-wave version would not provide immunity against a potential mutated second wave. Which is bad news, except that I was going to go out and stand in front of sneezing strangers with kids in tow, which would have been, like, gross. Now I guess I won’t be doing that.
FDB: that’s what I said at #1.
Helen: I guess it depends on mutation/travel rate. If it’s seasonal, or only returns after 12 months or more, then it probably will mutate too much for us to have full immunity. If it comes back in 6 months, like in the Spanish flu in 1918-19 (also H1N1), then there may still be significant immunity which will slow the spread of the virus.
Check out this paper by Andreasen et. al. from 2008.
I’m worried about possible reassortment with H5N1 avian influenza… H1N1′s got the virulence, H5N1′s got the mortality. Although it’s possible that any such mutation would result in a decrease in virulence instead. The only way to be prepared is to monitor the virus’ spread and start working on a vaccine, which CSL is already doing.
Yes PC. The second wave effect was apparently huge in the Spansish Flu pandemic of 1918-9. First wave, not too bad; second wave deadly as hell.
Good program on Radio National three weeks ago.
I have to say, the mortality rate of the 1918-19 Spanish flu was mostly due to people getting a secondary respiratory infection, i.e. bacterial pneumonia. Luckily, we have a fairly good range of antibiotics today… unlike 1918.
Antibiotics and antivirals mean that even if we do get a record-worst influenza virus, the mortality rate (in developed countries) should be relatively low.
Rapidly spreading harmful half-truths about swine flu. Is that a plague of porkies?
Loved reading all of this! Particularly Quoll and his very practical and cheering suggestions re olives and red wine. My favorite common cold treatment could help too – caffeine and plenty of it. No, it’s not a cure, but you sure as hell feel a lot better after a few cups of good strong black! Particularly if like me you normally try to keep your coffee intake down.
As something of a health freak I hate the idea of vaccines and antibiotics and agree with Quoll we should be looking to alternatives like olive leaf exract (even tastes good) but where is there profit for big pharma in that? Particularly with herbs like garlic which you can grow in your own back yard? One clove a day keeps all bugs away!
So apart from sound advice like washing hands and coughing protocols why aren’t we hearing more from authorities on how to stengthen our immune systems and become more resistant to infection generally? Robert @ 39 you should know that the young are not by definition healthy, many having compromised their immune systems with drugs, drink, junk food and too little sleep. Perhaps a curfew might help?
And less stress, of course! Stop worrying about it! Easy to say for those of us in our rocking chairs. Swine Flu sounds as good a way to go as any!
“As something of a health freak I hate the idea of vaccines and antibiotics”
I think its great that you are health aware, esp with regards to what you put in your body.
However, I urge you to reconsider your opinion of vaccines.
Here is a start:
http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/uci-myths-guideprov
interesting to hear everybodies point of views. sad that nobody has acknowledged the simple fact that over processing meat in a contained environment is causing a problem No i cant spell and i am not a vegetarian but i do believe that keeping animals out of sun light,giving them manufactured food, and not allowing them a life, is fuel for distruction. Come ON Are We All So Naive?????? Hey lets put rings thru dogs jaws and catch sharks!!!!!!!! How about we all take responsibilty for our own food and actions and stop the creation of a more deadly flu through our own negligent “consumer” crazy actions. NO pigs, cows, choocks, eggs, sheep, dogs, whatever we eat should not be farmed in over crowded irresponsible, dirty, un humane conditions. Anybody hear the old saying that we are what we eat.
Well. I really hope i am a happy laughing sheep that has been running through the pastures bleeting eating and rooting, not a pig that has had its leg chopped off cos it didnt fit in the pen that is in a shed that is the only world that it has ever seen. Only knowing insemination and giving birth, feeding then being killed for bacon. fmmmmmmmmmmmm tastey. Hope that that is not me. I know that if this flu virus has a mutant strain that this all means nothing because it is too late. but if we all live to see another day maybe we should look at things through “wiser” eyes.
Not much has been said about the ports ‘Pacific Dawn’ visited on its South Pacific cruise. It was in Suva a few days ago, and must have been in other places too. No sign of infection here in Suva so far, though the dutyfree shopkeepers up Cumming Street must be vulnerable. I haven’t seen anything in the Aussie press, only the comment that the ‘Pacific Dawn’ hadn’t visited any port with the flu. No, but it might have left it with them.
What Steve said about vaccines.
As for antibiotics, a friend of mine had a post-operative infection in her arm. With antibiotics, fixing it is straightforward. Without them, they’d be chopping off her arm. The problem with antibiotics is that they are misused to treat things that they can’t actually fix.
Modern medicine is not perfect, but I’d sure prefer it to the alternative.
Manulevu@70 new reports suggest things are OK, so far, with Pacific Dawn.
Apart from the 3 staff who tested positive, of course.
“Queensland Health says seven samples taken from passengers on board the ship have come back negative for swine flu, but all passengers will still be screened.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/30/2585174.htm?section=justin
There’s always Killer Germ Joy Juice. Dunno about flu ’cause I get flu shots but its great for colds. Here’s the recipe. (It tastes foul, and worse after every time you heat it up, but it does the trick.)
6 Lemons.
6 oranges.
1 stick of cinnamon.
1 clove of garlic.
Half a ginger root.
Handful of cloves.
A tablespoon of honey.
Juice oranges and lemons.(Pour juice into pot.)
Grate orange and lemon skins. put in pot.
Break up cinammon stick into small pieces. Put in pot.
Chope garlic clove up finely. Put in pot.
Grate ginger root. Put in pot.
Chuck in cloves.
Add water. (About 4-6 cups.)
Add honey.
Put on stove in lidded pot. Bring to simmer. Never, repeat never, bring to boil.
Simmer for about 15-20 minutes.
Have one hot cup of brew about every three hours.
Warning. It tastes worse with each heating.
Result. Cold gone in about a day. But, Jeez, it tastes awful.
Enjoy, sort of.
Also what Steve said about vaccines and Rob, antibiotics.
When are people ever going to get the sanitation/nutrition/lifestyle are the best!!! and every single doctor will tell you the same thing, as they do every single consultation , particularly in respect of what are termed lifestyle diseases, but modern medicine ie. vaccines, accident & emergency, surgery and pharmaceuticals are without peer in saving lives re: acute conditions, infections and so many diseases and boring old accidents and so on.
Patricia WA, will all due respect, the whopping cough epidemic in NSW is totally related to the children of ‘health freaks’ not being vaccinated, not due to poor nutrition. A 4-week old baby died of whopping cough in March on the North Coast of NSW. A death which should not have not happened if immunisation rates had not dropped particularly in clusters like on the NSW Nth Coast. The outbreak is so widespread:
In respect of Influenza A, my daughter caught it in the 2003 or 2004 season. She was in kindie or Year 1. I had to bring out the ye olde fashioned nursing routine – 24 hours beside bed tending to her. I took her to the doctor twice and she was like a limp rag carrying her into car etc. I wasn’t worried she was going to die, maybe in the wee hours, but I was hyper-vigilant and beadily watched her progress until it passed through. I came down with it just as she was better and I was flat out for a few days myself. A friend had to take my daughter as I was just too sick to get up, and normally I’m never sick…but I was completely out of it for about 24-36 hours. My current employer provides the flu vaccine so I’ve been taking up that option now as matter of course.
And also what PC said. So many people are carrying on like bloody kids. “You said we were gunna get swine flu, you lied”. A big kick up the arse for anyone who whinges about it not being as bad as what the health authorities have been planning for.
Robert – Well, yes, I too have had antibiotics in an extreme case and been grateful for the rapid release from pain and fear, as I have in situations threatening the life of family members.
The problem is that for flu, colds and other comparatively minor illnesses antibiotics and antivirals are used as a short term fix but which has longer term repercussions on general health. Research suggests that they don’t cure so much as shorten the disease by a day or so. Increasingly we look to doctors and pharmicists to get us well rather than take individual responsibility for staying healthy.
Until the medical profession, and the politicians really come to grips with this an increasingly huge proportion of our national budget will go into escalating health costs. Some of it will be spent on killling people in hospitals from iatrogenic diseases like Golden Staph.
Meanwhile the complacency caused by the widescale use of antibiotics on people has spread to their use with livestock. Factory farming worldwide is often a factor in generating diseases like bird flu and now swine flu.
I can see both sides to an extent.
I took advantage of the free whooping cough vaccine as a new parent (would have paid for it anyway), but when i had the chicken pox as a 17 year old, i didn’t feel so bad and ended up not even seeing a doctor – just stayed at home, rested, had about 15 glasses of water and 3000mg of vitC a day. was over it in a week (spots lasted longer).
PAtricia, I am sympathetic to your argument about overuse of antibiotics, and people not being careful enough with their health.
However, just to express a bit of skepticism for debate purposes: despite increasing trend to obesity, wouldn’t you say that, in general, people today are better nourished, have better sanitation practices, and are more educated about health than has ever been the case in the past? How much more focus does their need to be on good health? Why is worrying about diet to the nth degree (as if there is widespread agreement on what a ‘good diet’ is) better than having the medical profession offer their solutions?
And then there are people like my mother, who are lifelong adherents to alternative medicine, but who are in total denial about their health and convince themselves that they are healthy when they are not and refuse all help from the mainstream medical community. My mother knows all about herbs and vitamins and wont see a GP more than once in a blue moon, but she has high blood pressure, high cholesterol, is in the high risk agegroup for breast cancer, and suffers migraines. She thinks she never gets sick (of course she does) and thinks she gets lots of exercise (walking round the block once every couple of days). she is only mid 60s.
Steve, it’s not about ‘seeing both sides’ – there just is both sides. Patricia is right about keeping healthy, good nutrition etc – this is however what is promoted 24/7/365 by every Health Dept on the planet, however boringly mainstream and obviously. (And this doesn’t mean that there should not be a much bigger budget for preventative medicine/health and by a huge factor.)
But the fact is a goodly proportion of the pop. just don’t have healthy lifestyles and secondly a shitload of diseases and infections etc effect the good and the naughty. Maybe the good will be able to ward off a particular disease or come through much more easily and then maybe not.
I shouldn’t have to say it, but in respect of my daughter she has had only one course of antibiotics in nearly 12 years and that was due to an infected tropical spider bite while travelling and has been provided with gourmet and health-nut food options since day one, neither of which mattered one whit in respect of catching influenza as above, nor in contracting the usual rounds of head colds and tummy bugs (and nit and worms) which make their temp. homes in our children. Otoh, the olde worldy home remedies and home nursing skills probably ensured that these minor conditions didn’t progress and require further treatment.
I have used both alt. medicine and conventional doctoring for decades. For a proper diagnosis however, you can’t go past conventional medicine, whether however you want to take some of the drugs prescribed is really up to you in respect of the seriousness and type of condition, how well you are overall, how much you are willing to change your lifestyle etc etc, cause taken over many years, most drugs do not have such great side effects and combined with others etc…..
Steve, my mum is much older than yours and is in the “Doctor Is God” generation. She possesses no agency in respect of her own health. I also know quite a few people like your mother who self-diagnose and use off the shelf alt. therapies, many of whom have undiagnosed conditions or mis-diagnosed conditions. Between these groups lies better health outcomes and better health policy.
Yes Steve, it’s a big dilemna, particularly when it’s the health of loved ones at issue. For what it’s worth, I’ve availed myself of the best I could find in both public and alternative health systems over many decades. My family and I have stayed pretty well with the occasional crisis. Finding doctors who were happy to have a partnership in keeping us healthy has been the challenge. Those who did so willingly also used their prescription pads sparingly.
Alternative treatments can be a lot more expensive and ask a lot more of us in the way of participation and understanding, particularly about diet and exercise. But isn’t taking responsibility for oneself far better than ignorant dependency? Isn’t that a democratic principle?
I don’t agree that people are now generally healthier and better nourished than before. For all our wealth invested in schools and hospitals we are not outstandingly healthy. Statistics for preventable conditions like obesity, diabetes, smoking related illness, alchohol dependency, and subsequent high road tolls tell us that western populations as a whole are not becoming healthier and public hospitals are overcrowded to the point of inefficiency.
So back to Swine Flu – if it really reaches pandemic proportions and with the media coverage it’s attracting isn’t this an opportunity to educate the community about much more than coughing and sneezing courtesies?
Patricia WA, so called “coughing and sneezing courtesies” are how this disease is spread, and not by lifestyles choices, FFS.
I really don’t know why you are choosing not to get the fundamentals.
Surely you don’t actually believe that children and young adults are protected from influenza of any strain, from munching on alfalfa spouts and linseeds instead of maccas.
I think someone else should take over, gotta go and bang head on desk.
Patricia: I’ve notice you using phrases like “Research suggests” and “Statistics … tell us” and “the young are not by definition healthy, many having compromised their immune systems with drugs, drink, junk food and too little sleep” without supporting these statements with any evidence.
Can you please provide us links or directions to your references so that we can enlighten ourselves?
Cheers.
I actually say that modern people suffer the delusion of better nutrition and health.
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The ignorance and laziness of modern humans is largely masked by the range of technology and knowledge (that an observant minority of people have managed to uncover or create despite the general human bullshit) that has rapidly becoming available to anyone who can type google (or whatever). Books writing were probably first in this regard of course.
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Oh, and it’s seems pretty evident that the only thing bigger than what you know, no matter how much you know, is your ignorance. Which applies to everyone. Same for the placebo effect.
The idea that contemporary humans are better somehow than those of the past is laughable. Your average peasant would probably have to memorise and have a deep knowledge of their environment, food sources, dangers and potential cures, in a very direct sense. Modern humans are fat lazy bastards for the most part who more and more can barely survive without a piece of technology strapped to them, or to save them.
It’s the collective illusion of knowledge, but really we’re no less the self-interested, opportunistic, ignorant sex-driven animals like the rest of creation.
.
Unfortunately, the reality of that ignorance catches up with us, when our imagination about something (in this context say people taking alt meds, or Vioxx or HRT, or even thalidomide all those years ago) is smashed upon the rocks of reality.
.
In some ways the glorifying of ‘experts’ and ‘highpower medicine’ probably actually cultivates the lack responsibility and ignorance amongst people. Why bother having to learn anything or become aware when you suffer this delusion that a knight in a white lab coat can save your ass no matter what? Then get upset when you actually realise that hey actually they can’t.
.
Anyone who thinks the world of medicine, particularly pharma really have a special exemption from the usual array of faults, foibles and delusions that any group of humans contains, seems ignorant to me.
.
You can be misdiagnosed by medicine, have extensive and invasive procedure of no benefit, and a well characterised risk. It’s also quite interesting to see “anecdote” being used to talk down herbs et al.
“Our totally anecdotal (biased?) evidence suggests that the anecdotal evidence for herbs is rubbish, even though that anecdotal evidence stretches back centuries or millenia, and ours is based on a couple of minutes thinking about someone we know who might make a bad example, to warn everyone about”… or?
.
For all the dangers who can provide me with some numbers on how many people died or suffered a significant injury from herbal medicines (correctly identified and utilised) out the probably hundreds of millions of people who took them over the last year? (you’ll be lucky to find numbers in the dozens, if you can find any at all)
Then stick that alongside the numbers suffering that fate from pharmaceuticals and calculate the relative risk. (tens to hundreds of thousands)
.
Notwithstanding risks, personal idiosyncrasies or reactions and contaminants, the beat up, ignorance and fear surrounding the healing qualities of herbal medicines in the English speaking world has little basis in fact or evidence, particularly independent from financial interests.
Wash those hands, take your olive leaf and I’ll see after the pandemic
LeftyE @24, I’ll throw in the flaming torches. Can’t organise the baying crowd; there’s only about 50 people wringing wet where I live, but we do have combustible materials.
I have to say I’m really taken with the plague ship idea, but we should think big and have a plague fleet. The standard could be a rampant swine on a ground of hospital linen with crossed syringes and used tissues. Suggestions for a motto would be most welcome.
“Enveloped viruses use multiple mechanisms to inhibit infection of a target cell by more than one virion. These mechanisms may be of particular importance for the evolution of segmented viruses, because superinfection exclusion may limit the frequency of reassortment of viral genes. …(thus) Cells infected with H1N1 influenza A virus were refractory to HA-mediated infection and to superinfection with a second influenza A virus. Both HA-mediated entry and viral superinfection were rescued by the neuraminidase inhibitors oseltamivir carboxylate and zanamivir.
Those are of course tamiflu and relenza to you and me. So … folks taking the prescribed drugs are providing an on-ramp for the virus to get on the molecular evolution/mutation freeway?
Andos – Sorry I’m not a reader of the medical science journals. I admit to broad generalisations from magazines, books and reviews I’ve read which tend to support my everyman observations of the real world around me.
If someone can show me in a few words how to link I will endeavour in future when I do use phrases like “research suggests” and “statistics tell us” to attach them to some substantive source.
Perhaps I should follow Quoll’s example though and just simply say “I actually say” or “I am of the opinion” and then those purists who want to disagree can come back at me with links to evidence based arguments.
Do we really need a link to prove or disprove my generalisation that young people are not by definition healthy given modern life styles. Even in my youth over half a century ago many of us ate stupidly, drank too much, smoked and didn’t get enough sleep.
Cheers, Patricia
PS Danny – I tried to follow your link, but couldn’t get there. I would like to read more about that because it might well support my strong sense/opinion that medication in flu epidemics is often of little except palliative use, and can be harmful when over-reliance on external intervention means less self-care and prevention. Is like the argument about over-use of antibiotics producing resistant strains of disease?
Patricia: there is an example of how to create a hyperlink in the text just above the comments box. Or, you could just copy and paste a URL straight into your comment.
Frankly, as a young person, I am offended by your generalisations that somehow young people are more drug addled, bloated and befuddled with alcohol than any other age group. It’s pretty easy to demonise young people, but I really don’t think it’s quite fair to blame young people in general if a certain virus happens to infect them at a higher rate than other age groups.
By the way, you can read the paper Danny quotes here, if you want.
A very interesting paper, and it certainly shows that more research is needed into how these viruses work and by what mechanisms they produce reassortment mutants (like the virus we call swine flu).
Personally, I think that an in vitro study showing possible increase of superinfection when antivirals are used doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be using these drugs to treat people. These drugs save lives.
How mild does this pandemic need to be before people stop and say – hang on, why are we reacting so hysterically? Because this is what we are seeing. Mass hysteria. And “what if it mutates”? I’m still waiting for the promised H5N1 mutation that was ‘imminent’ five years ago.
Why aren’t you all getting worried about measles, whooping cough, shingles, hepatitis C, all of which are much more pain, death and misery than this new–but-mild flu.
Shippe’s Log
The good shippe Flying Swine
of the Port of Cancun
31st Mayo, in This Year of Tribulations
Cometh the Hour, cometh the Coughing. Here wee be beset by calm, small Vapoures, distressing news sheets from offshore Printers Shoppes; while all on deck of Runney Nose, Ague limbs, small Fevers, spluttering good cheere; poultices and potions much used, nearly efficacious; and least ways we all share a good broth withall, each meal time; and the Shippes Priest gives comfort to the poorly, while Se~or Hernandez does as best he might with kegs of finest Jerez wines. Last Report was of palsey in Santiago de Cuba, amputees cast adrift from Haeetee Island, and lumbago in Tabasco. Six goats slaughtered as a sacrifice to godds of old, Indian incantations and smokes aloft. Blood red sunset. Becalmed. Pirates hove to then slipped away quickly as they seed all our pale, coughing visages. Seamstress working on our Pennant of Swinish features to fly from main mast. None shall board us in our times of travails. Two thrown overboard yestermorn, but that were for refusing broth.
Wee of good cheere salute ye. !Saludos!
Apologies for going off-topic, but Ambi, I think you would enjoy Geoffrey Chaucer’s blog, if you don’t know it already. He was recently inspired to re-start it by the, erm, intellectual stimulation of the International Congress on Medieval Studies at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, as you can see here.
Since we’re revisited the past because of contemporary circumstances, I just hauled out and reread Defoe’s “A Journal Of The Plague Year”. Still a bloody good piece of semi-gonzo journalism. He may have made it up but he certainly did his research. And survived it.
Well worth revisiting while yer still alive.
Or just go straight to Camus’s La Pestil for some mental prep!
The Defoe is right here in the U of Adders’ excellent collection of e-texts.
Ex that same UA Libris, (Titus Lucretius Carus, “Of the nature of things”, ultimate chapter), perhaps the original purple patch, prompting Horace to observe: “Inceptis gravibus plerumque et magna professis Purpureus, late qui splendeat, unus et alter Adsuitur pannus”
“THE PLAGUE ATHENS ”
“At first, they’d bear about
A skull on fire with heat, and eyeballs twain
Red with suffusion of blank glare. Their throats,
Black on the inside, sweated oozy blood;
And the walled pathway of the voice of man
Was clogged with ulcers; and the very tongue,
The mind’s interpreter, would trickle gore,
Weakened by torments, tardy, rough to touch.
Next when that Influence of bane had chocked,
Down through the throat, the breast, and streamed had
E’en into sullen heart of those sick folk,
Then, verily, all the fences of man’s life
Began to topple….”
Definitely worth a sickie, I’d say.
Thank you severally for a delightful re-railing of this thread. Thanks jane en el Mayo 30 for suggesting further work on the “plague ship”. !Saludos!
Ah, Pavlov’s. Geoffrey Chaucer whom some had prematurely adjudged deceased, has by the pleasures of bloggery been restored to rude good health. !Muchas gracias Se~or Geoffrey! !y tambien, muchas gracias La Gatta del Profesoro Pavlov!
!saludos!
, , y .
/pedantry
Argh! My corrections en español disappeared due to a combination of punctuation and html tags. Anyway:
‘Señor’, ‘también’, ‘Gata’ and ‘Profesor’
/second attempt at pedantry
Well done, klaus. ?If a person types Se~or because they can’t get the lovely squiggle over the ‘n’ in Senor, would you mind explaining how it’s done on a keyboard ingles?
Looks like your espa~ol is progressing in leaps and bounds.
!Felicitaciones!
Yes, it was a little bit too pedantic to correct that, I’ll admit.
Hold the ‘Alt’ key, and type 164 on the number pad (ie not on the number keys above the QWERTY bit – the pad on the right hand side of the keyboard). It’s 160 for á; 130 for é; 161 for í; 162 for ó; and 163 for ú. Those are the lower-case ones, different for upper case.
Here’s a link to a guide for Windows or Mac:
http://spanishnewyork.com/spanish-characters.html.
I have a copy on the wall behind my PC.
Testiñg!
Danny @93, maybe even a doctor’s certificate.
Jane: that was the doctors, not the patients, they were talking about.
Veering wildly towards topicdom:
Warning: Any similarity with current circumstance should be not be treated as a reason to jump to simplistic conclusions, like “ALL vaccines are more dangerous than the disease”, or “increase of superinfection when antivirals are used means we shouldn’t be using these drugs to treat people”
Director Sencer was fired, with extreme prejudice, .
Now it turns out, “Some 1976 vaccine (has) been saved … mice given the vaccine made antibodies that reacted with gangliosides, which are components of nerve cells. An antibody attack on gangliosides is part of the disease mechanism of Guillain-Barré.” From Anti?Ganglioside Antibody Induction by Swine (A/NJ/1976/H1N1) and Other Influenza Vaccines: Insights into Vaccine?Associated Guillain?Barré Syndrome): “these vaccines induced anti?GM1 antibodies in mice, as did vaccines from 1991–1992 and 2004–2005. Preliminary studies suggest that the influenza HA induces anti?GM1 antibodies.”
This wee nastie is fiendishly clever, Oddysseus and Epeus have got nothing on this nano-trojan horse. First it’s -ve stranded RNA, which normal critters aren’t programmed to deal with, then it co-opts our own airway epithelium enzymes to trick it’s way in, and activate, then it up-regulates our immune reponses so we drown in our own meant-to-be-healing juices ( the cytokine storm ), it opens the door to secondary infections, it mutates at the drop of a hat, and now it appears even the vaccines we make against it can be a serious health hazard. (The good news is one of the main authors of that paper is now local, @ Griffith, down there with the relenza inventor.)
Just because there’s a widesread impression that our health bureacracies are worse than useless, and any good PR port in a storm will be enthusiastically struck out for, and just because mass vaccinations will do great things for our CSL’s share price, (and therefore the Future Fund,) and generate much needed cash flow to help it pay the humoungous fine it’s going to get , and gigantic debt incurred, for anti-competitive corporate takeover behaviour, is no reason to ignore the lessons of history and rush in. These Roxon assurances “we’ll have a vaccine in a couple of months, I’ve ordered 10 million doses” have got me a bit concerned: when are they gonna fit preliminary clinical trials in, f’rinstance? Oh right, we are the clinical trial.
Just wanted to say great job with the blog, today is my first visit here and I’ve enjoyed reading your posts so far
Juan