State of Origin rugby league is on again tonight. Queensland are favourites having won three series in a row and having kept almost the same team from last year. I always expect NSW to win because of their speed and skill all over the park. There is no doubt they can this time.
Warren Ryan says how.
It is said that NSW are going to use the human wrecking ball Michael Weyman (114kg) in combination with Justin Poor (108kg) to run over us in the forwards. But Weyman apart, in weight overall there is not much in it. NSW have 8 forwards over 100kg, Qld 7. They have one each in the backs (Folau and Campese). Each has only three players under 90kg. The big difference is that NSW have gone exclusively for form, whereas Qld has emphasised experience and settled combinations. For example, Thurston and Lockyer have played 19 representative games together, whereas the Wallace/Campese combination is new.
Having said that, I thought I’d recall something you’ll probably never see the likes of again, namely Israel Folau’s spectacular try last year, courtesy of Brisbane Times:
Here’s a wider view of the final frame, from the ABC:
This image clearly shows a NSW player doing something naughty, tackling Folau while in the air. It raises the question of what the ref would have done if Folau had dropped the ball instead of grounding it with downward pressure. Would he have simply awarded a penalty against NSW or a penalty try in front of the sticks?
In case you don’t recognise the NSW player the miscreant (fom the Courier Mail) is Matt Cooper.
That’s by the by. Folau’s try was no fluke because he practiced leaping and catching the ball AFL style with a couple of AFL teams in Melbourne. But unlike the AFL players, who often hold the ball for a nanosecond and then drop it, rugby league players have to hold it while making a safe landing. In this case the real spectacle came from the grounding while being up-ended (thanks, Matt Cooper!)
The grounding of the ball in both rugby codes is much more attractive than the American football notion of simply breaking the air over the line in what is strangely called a ‘touch-down’. You can perhaps find better examples, but this one of Folau against the Cowboys (from Fairfax) was to hand:
If Folau’s leg had been airborne outside the sideline it would still have been a try. Speaking of flying bodies, I found this one of the Inglis try assist (Courier Mail) from the Centenary test against the Kiwis last year:
The ball was sailing over the dead-ball line when Inglis launched himself into the air, caught it and threw it back over his head for the trailing Mark Gasnier to score perhaps the easiest try ever. The ref had a perfect view and ruled a fair try.
Chances are that you won’t see such a spectacular try from Folau this year, in large part because NSW coach Craig Bellamy has brought in some AFL expertise to learn how to defend against his aerial game, by fair or not so fair means, no doubt.
History says Qld can’t win a record fourth series in a row. I hope the result is close and exciting, although I’ll take a comprehensive Qld win any time. With two refs it should be fast and open. Let’s hope they let the players decide the outcome. That hasn’t always happened in NRL games this year.
For the statistically minded the record stands on games won at Qld with 42, NSW with 39 and 2 draws. Series favour Qld at 13-12 with 2 drawn. Qld has scored a total of 1329 points against NSW 1312. Tries also favour Qld at 231 to 224. NSW lead on goals, 207 to 205 and field goals 13 to 8. So we still have our noses in front, but only just.
Almost forgot, being so close to Mexico these days. So “at the end of the day” I must remember:
-take sick friend’s kid home from daycare; and
-bottleshop.
Thanks Brian.
Glad to be of service, Sean.
I heard an estimate that there would be over 800,000 sets tuned to the SOO in Qld, about double the 7 nightly news. One of the ‘positives’ in taking the game to Melbourne, although any other positives are a bit hard to find.
What? Banana benders are reduced to hypotheticals about what they ref may have done if a try that was scored was disallowed. From last year?
I detect doubt in the minds of those north of the border.
I will be live blogging the series again as per custom. It will start around 7:30pm with the traditional bagging of Ben Ikin.
Um, they legalised tackling attacking players in the air about 4 years ago. The players made a submission between seasons pointing out that once a catch was made, the defence had no further action to take.
Subsequently all players now tackle attackers in the air in the in-goal, including Folau. Why wouldn’t they? It’s 100% legal now, and the best option.
The more iffy practice is that of shadowing, which is also universal, but I first saw it pioneered by the Broncos.
The biggest threat to Folau in the air is the fact that McManus isn’t far behind in athleticism.
Christ, 10 years ago, the only player who could catch in his hands overhead was Timana Tahu, these days you see props doing it (e.g Chris Houston).
I also want to describe my theory of why QLD is now weakened. It’s commonly accepted that the eveness of SOO comes from a larger pool of NSW players vs a more motivated/spirited QLD team. The two advantages cancel each other out.
But where does that motivation come except from an inferiority complex, from being the backward’s state, from being Joh’s state.
But dude, who can feel inferiority towrads NSW these days?
No just my intellectual curiosity, Shaun, and pointing out that what happened was degrees of difficulty harder than what seems to happen to my untutored eye in the AFL. I also note that Folau’s body is being held in a way that looks like a lifting foul. Except he wasn’t lifted and I guess the rules don’t cater for bodies falling from the sky.
But we always have doubts, Shaun, at least I do, which makes the win sweeter if/when it comes.
I won’t be live-blogging, I’ll be at the other end of the house, with eyes glued on the set. So if you want to see the game through a thick blue haze, Shaun’s blog is the place to go
Richard – your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your pamphlet.
Just for clarity.
http://www.nswrl.com.au/files/rules/ARL%20International%20Laws%20of%20the%20Game%202008.pdf
So, provided the referees were up to date with the rules (no small assumption!), if Folau had dropped it, it would have been a 20 tap.
Richard that stuff about Joh and backward states is ancient history, but there is an issue there about relative population, the number of players available and NSW attitudes towards north of the border.
Yes, I just checked the rules myself and you are of course right. But if you go to section 15, as invited you’ll see a rule about a dangerous throw:
So which part of Folau’s body would have hit the ground first? OK, it wasn’t lifting but was it dangerous, bearing in mind that whether or not a player is actually hurt seems to have no bearing?
Cooper’s is doing nothing wrong. In fact he was just making sure Falou didn’t land improperly.
Trust a Queenslander to think ill of the good intentions of one of the Might Blues.
Shaun, you mean like on his feet and land on a NSW player’s toes?
It won’t be the same without Roy & HG.
Well if that happened then Folau would have been sent off for dangerous contract with an opponent’s toes.
I’m sure you are right, Andrew B. I didn’t used to listen to them, my normal habit is to have a pocket radio jammed in my left (good) ear to listen to Warren Ryan and when David Morrow is giving his opinions I shift my attention to the TV to see whether those guys have anything interesting to say.
I don’t know whether you realise how ‘multicultural’ we are north of the border. For starters on sport our regulars are Gerry Collins (Newcastle) and Quentin Hull (Wagga, I think). On rugby league they then give us Warren Boland (Wests). On local radio this afternoon we have Richard Fidler (ex Melbourne “Doug Anthony All-Stars” and lived 10 years in Sydney) and Kelly Higgins-Devine (ex Melbourne via Cairns). The other day Fidler had his current producer on, a Pom (with Australian citizenship) who thinks SOO is rubbish and Lockyer the most over-rated player in the world. Just now we’ve had his other side-kick, Daniel Viles, who moved up here when he was 6 and reckons he used to get beaten up after every SOO match whether Qld won or lost. So he blames Wally Lewis for his twisted personality. I kinda take that with a grain of salt.
It’s all good fun.
Shaun @ 12, congratulations. It’s finally dawned on you how the system works!
Now we’ve just had some clown reading the weather who ends up with “Go the Blues!”
Kelly Higgins-Devine say “What?? Now I suppose you’ll tell us you support Collingwood!”
To which he replies, “Well I do, go the Magpies!”
The place just ain’t what it used to be.
[BTW that was Brad with the traffic report, not the weather.]
Sean said:
I will be live blogging the series again as per custom. It will start around 7:30pm with the traditional bagging of Ben Ikin.
Maybe not?
Of course it’s ancient history, it’s why the advantages that stemmed from it will wash out!
i’m afraid that on the lifting charge you’re grasping for something, anything, that could be used to give a counter intuitive decision. Bravo! This qualifies you as a video ref!
Yes, I just saw that aidan. I actually feel a little deflated as it, for me, was an essential part of the origin experience.
Richard, the attitudes you display are the very reason we enjoy beating you when we do.
I’m not remotely interested in slagging off at Cooper as a bad guy because he’s a Blue and as it turns out he was within the rules. I accept that, and I’m grateful you knew the rules, or “laws” as they prefer to call them. But I do think that interrupting a players fall so that he falls on his head, although it led to a spectacular try, is not what should happen on a footie field, or mum’s everywhere will be sending their kids off to play soccer or AFL, with good reason.
Shaun, I was going to say earlier you had my full permission to bag Ben Ikin. That Channel 9 find it appropriate to put forward such a mediocre talent to represent a token(?) Qld POV is a disgrace.
I was unaware I was showing any attitude at all rather than friendly discussion.
The fact that such attitude was perceived, although I swear to god there was none on my part, maybe shows that the inferiority complex has some way to run.
Which astonishes me. What on earth is there in NSW to feel inferior to? What NS Welshman feels any superiority at all. Malaise is now the primary feature of NSW identity!
The only attitude I have is bemusement that there is a lingering reaction to a potency and self confidence/arrogance that has long long long departed this state.
I wont mention the abysmal refereeing of the second game last year then. I thought it was 2007 but it was 2008 that Archer well…you know. Nor Sterlo’s Indefensible defence of it. Is there any free to air commentator on televesion worthy of respect any more?
I wont mention the cheating ingrained into QLD since the Broncos came on the scene. The grapples, the head highs, the holding the leg, the trips, getting a touch as light as a feather and falling on their a***.
The only good thing about a QLDer, any QLDer, are their political blogs.
There, there is my bit of sass.
OK Richard, fair enough. I don’t particularly like the terms “inferiority/superiority”, and I think I was reacting to what you might have thought of as friendly jibes about bias. We are sensitive about that. In truth Blues’ supporters are always biassed whereas we are by nature clear-sighted and rational
I don’t know what to make of it, but there is something strange in Warren Ryan’s notion that SOO will only be strong if Qld is on top. On that score NSW should do the right thing in the public interest and Channel 9′s profits by losing slightly more than 50% of the time. (At present it’s about just right, it seems.)
What’s strange is that Queenslanders would keep showing up year after year if we consistently flogged NSW. But apparently the reverse is not the case. If NSW win too easily or too often the fans lose interest.
In this I understand Sydney people are quite different to Melbourne people. So maybe it is just something in the Sydney psyche, though I’d hesitate to call it a superiority complex.
BTW I think the notion that the Blues don’t have the same spirit went out in 1986, when I think it was Steve Mortimer’s team that effected the first series white-wash. But history shows that we won the next 8 games if you ignore the LA exhibition game. That was only partly to do with the much-loved, now sadly departed ref known “The Grasshopper”.
Vee, it’s strange, but what you think about the Broncos is exactly what I think about the Bulldogs, the Roosters, the Eels and any team coached by Brian Smith, although the Knights have played some good footie this year. Oh yes, and the Storm.
Go Blues. Boo Maroons.
is there some sort of football match on?
After that wrongfully disallowed first try my 4 yearold has come out to ask what was that noise? “You’re allowed to yell inside when the football’s on.” Lucky he was too far away to learn the word I used.
I’d like to apologise for Mr Ambigulous’s querulous comment.
I watched the first 40 minutes and it was very good. Athletic, fast, nimble, strong. Watch out, Aussie Rules!
Congratulations Queensland, well played!
Not even close. More’s the pity. BTW, NSW didn’t have the luck.
For the record, Qld won 28-18, stats here, and story here.
Too many problematic refereeing decisions for me to really enjoy it. There’s only one I want to comment on. They got the Haynes “no try” right. When I first saw it I thought, heel on the line. The replay showed that was right. There were two justifications for awarding the try given by the ABC and Channel 9. The first was that sprinters run on the balls of their feet. David Morrow has called Olympic sprinting and knows that it’s crap, but conveniently he only said it once. Warren Ryan should know better. Haynes has a springy stride, but he ain’t a freak. He couldn’t run that fast on his toes.
The second was that if they had to look at it that many times there has to be doubt, so you’ve got to award it. Of course you have to be sure, but the alignment really was clear.
NSW, although they scored two in the second half from lucky deflections and in one case a bounce, weren’t far off the pace and can win next time if the selectors don’t panic. They need new halves. Wallace and Campese have to go.
The two best tries were Thurston’s in the 18th minute, which started at half way and Inglis’s second when he put the after-burners on and left them all in his wake.
Hayne shoulda had two tries. Harrigan’s decision was disgraceful. Hayne’s foot wasn’t on the line.
But QLD were the better side with their experience really showing through especially in the forwards. They gave a great platform for Thurston who thoroughly deserved the MOTM.
The NSW forwards just did not aim up in defense and gave Wallace/Campese no room. What was interesting was how the introduction of Wing really gave NSW some momentum as the QLD forwards tired and the ruck opened just a little.
But QLD worthy on the day but NSW will take some heart from their efforts. Still some work to do but they are better for the run.
Bring on June 24.
How many people people travelled to influenza riddled victoria to be amongst this spittle-flecked crowd? I note both NSW and Qld health departments are asking any children who went down t
..to the game to do the right thing and stay away from school for a week.
They don’t have the electoral guts to ask the “adults” who couldn’t keep themselves away from the excitement to stay away as well, they are leaving it up to the adults to work that out of themselves, but fat chance. They should have offered to refund game ticket and plane fares in public health interest, but again fat chance, this is religious freedom we’re talking about.
I think that’s a fair point, Danny.
On the ‘no try’ try, it was Bill Harrigan on video ref duty. So I’m in good company. Bellamy believes what you’d expect Bellamy to believe and with due respect, Hayne wouldn’t know.
FWIW I agree with Bellamy about Crocker pushing Creagh back down again, but I didn’t want to get into that because for every one of those that went one way you can quote one that went the other way, and cost points. Truly! I took notes!
Daley should know better than to get big Petero motivated.
I used to be up on my toes when I was in full flight out on the wing, and I dare say young Hayne is a tad faster than I ever were. That should, the Blues’ failure to recover from that episode wasn’t Origin standard footy.
Sean, think about it. To keep your heel off the ground with your leading foot you would have to shorten your stride to less than half. I’m 69 and if Hayne did that I reckon I could beat him down the touchline.
If you need a visual aid, try this.
Tim Mander was in the box with Harrigan. Those two are a level above the refs on the paddock last night. They took their time and got it right. Hayne undoubtedly deserved a try for beating Folau and Slater, but rules are rules.
He probably just touched the line and so in technical terms it wasn’t a try, but I’ve always believed that if the only reason you can find to disallow a try is some one millisecond, one millimetre breach that’s only visible in super-super-slow motion, common sense should prevail and the try should be awarded. I don’t think the video ref should exist to split hairs.
Brain, bollocks. He’s trying to break a tackle in the linked picture.
The foot, you see, is not stuck at a right angle on the end of the shin (well maybe it is on Union forwards), but can be pointed. I played outside backs for about 23 years, B-Man, and the degenerating hammies only forced my reirement year before last. Quite sure I remember it right.
Bryn, I could well agree with you, but the usual approach in sport is that rules is rules and they are quite anal about it. Depart from that and you introduce subjectivity. But I can understand the disappointment. Been there, done that.
Sean, that’s interesting. You (ie. I) learn something every day. But it wasn’t a running track and all that he needed to touch was a blade of grass. In tennis you see line-calls made on millimetres, whether it is match point, a service break or whatever. In soccer you repeatedly see ball hit the crossbar bounce down into the goal mouth and be ruled no goal because they don’t use the technology.
I do agree with those who say that the “no try” led to a momentum shift. But you can’t say, if anyone does, that but for that NSW would have won. Change one little bit and everything thereafter would have been different.
Anyway I reckon you guys are going to win the next one which should make for an interesting final match.
BTW, you got my name wrong. But thanks
In tennis you see line-calls made on millimetres, but in League benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking side. I agreed with 9′s commentators that the delay while Harrigan watched the replay 7 times got boring and took momentum out of the game as a whole, for the spectators.
I typed a “that should” where I meant “that said” above. Meant to agree that NSW should have been able to deal with it if they were going to win.
HAH! I noticed that “Brain” and thought I corrected it – obviously re-typing the same error. Pardon.
What stuff and nonsense to say the spittle-flecked should not have travelled to flu-ridden Victoria.
Melbourne is the Sports Capital of the World. We welcome your tired and huddled masses, yearning to pay fees. Let the turnstiles turn. Let the virus spread its love across the land.
Let thousands learn to say “Etty – Had”. Let them pack our hostelries and inns; let them crowd our trains, trams and coaches. May they bring their bulging wallets which we’ll empty anon.
Come one, come all. Bread and circuses? No – we give you the Etty-Had Experience. Come on down and be Had.
Sean, if it’s any comfort I sometimes type my name incorrectly also. So far, I hope, I’ve always managed to correct it.
Melburnia, yep, that would be right!
corrigendum: I am spelt with an ultimate ‘n’.
For those interstate vistors who wish to raise their Latin to a level suiting a sojourn in St Petersburg, please note that we in Victoria say stadia for the plural of stadium.
Being correct about these small things will lessen the tedium of your visit. Terribly sorry, but my fellow Victorian pedants just cannot help themselves and will correct the tiniest flaw.
“Brain” is just as nice a name as “Brian”. Don’t go changin’ it !!!
Two more or less serious thoughts.
I think the problem in the “no try” ruling is that when Bill Harrigan has made up his mind there no longer is any doubt.
The other thing is I’ve been thinking about Sean’s lesson on sprinting technique. Now I know why I spent my own undistinguished career with my head stuck in the second row!
Sean, I thought I’d try to find some photos to illustrate your story @ 39 about bringing the foot down in a claw action with a toe striking on the track, pulling the ground under you. What I saw leads me to believe you can’t do it without having your heel on the ground at some point, or if your heel doesn’t touch the ground it might explain why you had injuries!
Here’s Doug Howlett, Bryan Habana and a a RU Lismore flyer. They might all use a claw strike action, but I can’t imagine their heel stays off the ground for the whole time throughout the stride. Gravity would put impossible strain on your muscles, surely!
When I find a side-on of Jarryd Hayne in the relevant position running freely, I’ll certainly let you know. Now to set you going again, here is Hayne front-on, just after the tell-tale moment. He is very springy in his stride, as I said, but I still can’t believe he ran entirely on the balls of his feet. It would simply require too much energy to beat gravity like that IMHO.
Bill Harrigan and Tim Mander explain.
[/taps the mat]
Sean, did you really think I’d leave that comment there as the last word? I was waiting to hear David Morrow and Warren Ryan on the ABC to see whether they’d learnt anything. Sadly not, if anything they’ve regressed, especially David Morrow. The incident has gone down in his book as blatant and horrific refereeing error, so we’ll be hearing about it for the next 10 years, or however long it is until he retires. Sadly.
I suggest you write to referee boss Finch about your sprinting on the balls of your feet theory. He’ll no doubt consult a bunch of experts, call for a pile of videos and counsel his referees accordingly.
I counted what I thought were 9 refereeing mistakes in the match and I haven’t bothered to count which team was favoured most. Personally I think you had more to complain about in some of the other decisions. Darren Lockyer said in his column he only concerns himself with things he can influence and he can’t influence refereeing decisions.
I think it’s time we moved on too and hope the refs do a better job next time.