The Punch doubles down on OzCar with David Penberthy claiming that the email that is/isn’t is now a ‘red herring’ and that ‘Turnbull wasn’t shopping the fake email about’. Stablemate Paul Colgan says this is no longer about an email or a ute.
Glen Milne claims that ethics have been thrown overboard in government attacks. Possum at Crikey says that you’d have to be a lead poisoned crackhead to believe this. Denis Shanahan believes that the fate of Rudd, Swan and Turnbull is out of their hands.
Over at Fairfax, Peter Hartcher thinks the controversy will leave a question mark over the Prime Minister, and Phillip Coorey reminds us that there’s no such thing as a free ute, someone will have to pay for it.
In the Telegraph, red herring email stenographer Steve Lewis gives us his version of events and Malcolm Farr wonders just who will fall off the back of the Ute.
Do I have an opinion? Sure. Does it matter? Nope.
As is usual, when it comes to press gallery and political types, truth is the first casualty. It’s going to be a long and interesting day.
Update [dk.au]: Email found. It’s fake.
Update [by Kim]: The focus turns to Malcolm Turnbull’s ethics and judgment.
Rudd was going for the jugular on AM this morning, and as well as Turnbull, he had The Daily Telegraph in his sights. About time – this rag is a disgrace to even the degraded notion of journalism that exists today.
@adrian yes he was and he did mention the Telegraph. The relevant passage from ABC’s AM.
Glenn Milne has a point for once. Turnbull should not be the subject of Federal police investigations. I hate to say it but that suggestion pretty much eclipes any alleged abuse of power under Howard.
Shorter Steve Lewis: unnamed people told me a lot of stuff and I published it as a story cos it was ‘explosive’.
Rudd’s indignation about the ‘Telegraph’ would be more impresive if he had been demonstrating it consistently for years when it published other bullshit stories that didn’t affect him. I guess when you’re raised on a diet of the ‘Courier Mail’ and the ‘Gold Coast Bulletin’ you tend to accept crap ranting newspapers as just one of those things, like blowflies and cane toads and other vermin. But why anyone would give anything they write the slightest credibility without seeing verifiable supporting evidence is beyond me.
As much as I hate the Telegraph…freedom of the press Mr Rudd. I think he’s out of line.
Guess Tanner will be our next treasurer. What on earth was Swannie thinking – or has he just been caught in the clutches of the trash that is the Daily Telegraph, which, btw, was Howard’s favourite newspaper.Now we see why.
Phil, you’ve got me rebutting the wrong story.
Milne also has an article about “what really happened at the Ball” with the meeting between Turnbull and Charlton.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25669042-5013404,00.html
Hopefully Kev is well-rested (though it’s difficult to imagine how). I pray he blows the Turnbully out of the water and exposes the Liberal Party’s shit-throwing.
“He has run this as a backgrounding exercise with the media, and I’ve got to say – for the Saturday Daily Telegraph of this week, just weekend just past, to run this email in a mocked-up version, having had from me the previous night a comprehensive response in terms of its inaccuracy,leaves fundamental questions as well in terms of standards of professional behaviour.”
Better late than never ,Kevin.
“As much as I hate the Telegraph…freedom of the press Mr Rudd.”
Oh yes, just what we need. The freedom to concoct bullshit and never be accountable.
This is the extract from the interview that I had in mind, Phil.
Anybody who thinks it’s OK to run made mock ups of e-mails that don’t exist as fact in order to discredit a Prime Minister or anyone else needs their head read. This is a greater threat to democracy than anything else in this affair.
@ Possum Comitatus, fixed, clarified etc….
joe2. With all due respect we don’t know it’s bull. You think it is, I think it is. But the story seems to have legs. Might as well wait to see what the AG says.
I agree absolutely with Adrian @ 11.
Oh for god’s sake tssk not even Lewis now pretends the email was genuine. The story ‘has legs’ because people like you keep making up fairy tales and then claiming they might be true because nobody has proved they’re not.
This has been the conservatives’ consistent strategy to attack Rudd from day 1. Neither they nor their media hangers-on care what damage they do to our public institutions. Like their predecessors in 1972-5, they’re either convinced they’re on a holy mission to save the nation from socialism or acting out of pure self-interest.
tssk’s concern troll act is wearing a little thin.
I see you resisted the temptation to call this post Is Kevin Rudd a Utesniger?
Tssk@13 , The Tele , in the Pauline Hanson faked nude photos saga, as a quick and obvious example, influenced the result of an election result ,most directly, and have felt no official repercussions.
That and this kind of stuff is a democracy killer.
I’d argue that democracy is already dead. Concern trolling aside I’m annoyed that this sort of thing is given scrutiny when Howard and his mob could and did get away with whatever they wanted. Then again, let the little things go and we end up in the same position we were in with the Howard mob.
It’s not only if Rudd survives, it’s how he survives.
Worst comes to worst the Daily Tele and the rest of News Ltd get rid of Rudd ironically leading to oour first female PM
Jesus wept!
Rudd and Swan’s behaviour is worse than the AWB/Loans affair/bank nationalisation/popish plot, it is my sad duty/weird fantasy to declare.
Unfortunately/unbelievably, this will lead to Rupert/Ms Bryce/Sir John appointing Turnbull/Costello/Stanley Melbourne Bruce as caretaker prime minister, with instructions for a double dissolution.
If you don’t know who I am it’s because I’m a lurker here at LP. The last time I commented was when Mr Menzies told us, “I did but see her passing by, all the way with RMN”. Those were good days, my fellow socialists/damnable popish plotters.
Latest: The AFP knocks on it’s first door.
I sense this is the work of the malign genius of the diabolical Dr Fu Manchu.
From the AM interview linked above:
“[W]hen Mr Turnbull today, Monday, was asked about the Opposition’s awareness of this particular email, and why Senator Abetz on behalf of the Liberal Party used it in the Senate enquiry last Friday, he said, “Oh, it had already been used – it had already been published in the Daily Telegraph.”
Problem, Mr Turnbull: it was not published in the Daily Telegraph until Saturday. The Senate enquiry was on Friday.” – Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister
That kind of says it all, really…
I’m sure that all News Ltd papers will declare the above fact an exclusion zone.
A Gretch in the system?
ABC news now says the email has been found and it looks like a fake which has been generated from Treasury. Godwin Gretch’s house been raided by the AFP and his pc checked out. Sounds like the government has an enemy in Treasury. Doesn’t mean it’s necessarily Gretch of course. What a mess!
What’s the deal with the Baronet bringing up a completely new email (to Ford Credit)?!
Is this the ‘real’ one. And what is the definition of ‘is’, Baronet supporters?
The federal police are going to be very busy.
Gotcha, Turnbull’s in a lot of trouble.
Holy crap, Phil! This is what the ABC are reporting:
Appears? Appears? There appears to be someone impersonating an Australian Public Servant, or using Commonwealth computer systems fraudulently, and poor Mr Grech appears to be the Patsy.
If the AFP find their man and prove their case, somebody is going to gaol. And it’s not Rudd, or Swann, or Turnbull, or Mr Grech. It’s whoever used the Treasury computer to send a fraudulent message. I think two years is the maximum for this kind of fraud?
So, according to that ABC report, the fake email originated from within Treasury.
If that all turns out to be true, how do you really blame Turnbull for running with a story originating from within Rudd’s own public service?
Does anyone else find it striking that the media can find so much time and effort to hyperventilate about this nonsense but hardly any to discuss Turnbull’s involvement in the HIH business? Then again I suppose it’s easier to concoct a story by summarising what unnamed people tell you on the telephone than to go and read actual court documents and stuff.
“I think two years is the maximum for this kind of fraud?”
Too bad. Whoever it was should get two years AND be made to listen to recordings of the Senate proceedings for the same period.
You know who else faked emails? The Nazis.
Being the media arm of the Liberal Party, Limited News acts predictably.
Mmm, censure motion. Great move, Turnbull!
Steve from Brisbane, it’s not Rudd’s public service, it’s ours.
Your remark sounds like a hangover from the days when it really was Howard’s public service – remember he ousted most department heads and appointed his own?
But when Rudd came in, the department heads stayed. Now, how is this Rudd’s public service, when most of the people at the top are the same as the ones Howard appointed? In that light, it doesn’t seem so outlandish to learn that someone in Treasury might be up to some highjinks…
Joe Hockey is now trying his hand at stand-up comedy.
Saying that the fraudulent email found by the AFP shows that Kevin Rudd was lying by saying there was no email…
WTF is Hockey trying to do?
Jesus. What a turn up. I applauded Rudd for not doing the usual clear out of the top levels of the public service which is what usually happens when the government changes hands. And this is how his trust in the system is repaid.
I’m totally fine with hostile elements within the public service keeping the Rudd government honest. Lord knows we needed that with the last lot.
But allegedly making stuff up?
There is an email (though forged) that purports to be from Charlton to Grech.
Grech was unable to produce a copy of thie email.
Scrutiny of the email systems of the PMO and Treasury initially turned up no record of this email.
The Liberals (Abetz and Turnbull) knew of the existence of this email before it was published by the Daily Telegraph or was communicated to them by a person or persons in the employ of the Daily Telegraph.
The only way in which the Liberals could have known about the existence of this email was from someone connected with the forger of the email.
Therefore, there is prima facie evidence that someone in the Parliamentary Liberal Party was an accessory before the fact in the construction and/or uttering of a forged document.
Someone in the Parliamentary Liberal Party may be implicated in a criminal conspiracy.
Hooray for news.com.au. “Police find ‘fake’ utegate email”
Love the use of quotes chaps.
Thank you Katz.
it has been suggested to me that one current Liberal Senator has ‘form’ as they say in The Bill on dodgy emails etc. But seriously this is an example of how when you are frustrated with the performance of your side of politics and sincerely believe that the govt is pursuing wrong policies you tend to clutch at scandals. Remember how many on the radical left hoped Tony Blair would be brought down, that children overboard would destroy Howard etc.
Swan seems on his game in question time. Just called Hockey “Sloppy Joe”.
Can anyone suggest the following for me.
1. A good hat shop? (I one to eat.)
2. A good place to buy some humble pies.
“it has been suggested to me that one current Liberal Senator has ‘form’ as they say in The Bill on dodgy emails etc.”
Form enough to fake an email from inside Treasury? Unlikely.
If a Treasury officer forged the email (and then leaked the contents to Turnbull), they should be easy to find. Very few Treasury officers would be IT-literate enough to forge an email, unless Treasury’s systems as easily hackable. (You would hope not.)
This has been a smear campaign for Liberal leaners to hang some hatred of the corrupt government on. They won’t be listening to the explanations that the email is a fake that the government had nothing to do with.
Godwin Grech will probably top himself in shame at loss of job etc as the AFP descends like a ton of bricks.
Could someone tell News Limited that Australian justice means that you were innocent until proven guilty and trial by media is a Nazi or Communist invention.
@ tssk, I think Mark will be able to help with the hats, Joe Hockey with the pies a bit later on.
“Remember how many on the radical left hoped Tony Blair would be brought down, that children overboard would destroy Howard etc.”
Yep ,though, there was a big difference. Blair and Howard were actually up to something- mass deception. And you didn’t need to be “left” or even “radical” to see what they were up to.
Missed my chance to comment on the original Ozcar thread, so bunging it here:
In my opinion the latte sniffers here are going too easy on Rudd and Swan, typified by the original post (teh real original post not this one)
I concur with Steve @77 and SHC @ 107 (of the real original post). The day my routine inquiries about government services are personally cced to The Secretary Of The Treasury is the day when I’ll be donating second hand utes to the PM as well.
It’s not a good look.
In my opinion a censure to Rudd for expediting enquiries of ALP donors is entirely appropriate.
I agree that Turnbull is lousy at dirt-bag politics and a lot of the time he seems disgusted at the childish nature of Parliamentary Question Time.
Prediction: Within 12 months Turnbull will have been utterly fried by Rudd/Arbib. He will leave Parliament an embittered soul a la Mark Latham/John Hewson and like them claim he was too good for politics.
Or, perhaps more likely, he’ll have a gutful and calmly step down to return to his previous existence of unhurriedly consuming Lobster Thermidore in fine restaurants.
Nice one!
OMFG
What a risible beatup. Methinks a whole pile of people need to have a crack at tssk’s suggested diet, more so than tssk him/herself.
I can’t believe this has been the best the opposition could do. Free ute vs. children overboard, AWB, etc.? What was Turnbull thinking? What odds that he stays in as leader?
Rudd and Swan need only keep asking how Turnbull and Ebetz could quote (in fact read out) a fraudulent email before it appeared in the news.
Ebetz will receive his reverse star chamber treatment soon.
Oh dear. Fake email may go to the heart of Turnbulls office.
I only have one more thing as I watch from the sidelines for a bit.
NOM NOM NOM.
Something that hasn’t been mentioned yet, but this really does highlight some lamentable gaps about IT in the Liberal Party.
Tresury computers have no burning roms and no USB drives so nothing can go in and out that way, and everything will be archived. Finding the person (or more likely, terminal) that sent the email will be child’s play, as confirming its fraudulent nature presumably way.
No wonder these guys are such a joke when it comes to IT policies, if no one in the team thought of this.
AFP keen to interview senior Turnbull staffer
I guess it is now out come the statutory declarations. My guess is that there will be fewer from Treasury than Joel required from all the boys and girls on Russell Hill and all negative of course. Stat Dec’s just haven’t been the same since Belinda Neal got a few run off following Iguanagate.
From the ABC:
It is unclear from this story whether the email found by the AFP in Mr Grech’s house was a hard copy or whether they found it on Mr Grech’s home computer.
If it is the former, then Mr Grech is in a lot of trouble.
If it is the latter, then the sender of that email should be shredding his/her documents along with his/her career.
“the AFP is now keen to speak to an advisor inside Mr Turnbull’s office, who worked formerly at Treasury, and has links to Mr Grech.”
I presume no one is suggesting that a senior Treasury officer is part of a conspiracy to frame the Prime Minister. It is unthinkable.
The end game is near. If the advisor is in the frame, then Turnbull will sack him and he might be charged. Turnbull and Rudd will do a deal that no one will ask too many difficult questions about what Turnbull knew, in exchange for the equally difficult questions about Swan being aside.
tssk, you’ve eaten more than enough humble hat pie! I’ll pass you some popcorn instead. Much more palatable, and all the better for watching the show.
Other people are going to have to eat some very smelly sandwiches, however.
I think the Libs and the News Limited bozos overlooked one crucial factor in cooking up this particular s**tstorm: Kevin Rudd is no Mohamed Haneef.
I hope they enjoy their sandwich!
Lindsay Tanner is now filleting Turnbull on the matter of the email.
Tanner’s forensic reading of this email is very impressive.
Ruddock’s point of order about the AFP stinks of fear.
Immunity from prosecution could be offered to the author of the email in return for testimony about all his/her conversations with Liberal parliamentarians on the subject of this email.
OK, here’s another issue for you: if it was wrong of the AFP to leak throughout the Haneef investigation, hasn’t anyone else noticed that they are seemingly doing the same today (leaking to favoured journalists every 30 minutes or so)
Yes, isn’t it shocking how Howard’s corruption of judicial processes has outlived his political life.
And the thing that truly condemns today’s journalists as being lazy and sloppy is that they had before them the biggest political scoop of the century but were more interested in smearing Rudd.
Is that where it’s coming from?
No no, the fact that someone in Turnbull’s office might have fabricated an email is just a DISTRACTION. Concentrate on the main story people … Swan got faxes from Treasury … conspiracy by Julia Gillard to knife her leader … parting shot by Peter Costello … stick to the important stuff for god’s sake and don’t get distracted by petty crap like the opposition leader’s staff possibly conspiring with senior public servants to bring down the prime minister. Who wants to bother with pissy stuff like that?
This episode has been a revelation about the priorities of so many people.
Steve @ 65: That did occur to me too Steve. I don’t know how or why the AFP decided, some time in the last decade, that it was desperately in the public interest to drip-feed information to journalists about an investigation in progress seemingly hour-by-hour. That doesn’t resemble anything like the media relations procedures that State police use: everything’s hush-hush no-talkie until the witnesses are empannelled and the evidence is presented under oath.
Or is it that journalists are shadowing the AFP’s every move and engaging in furious supposition tinged with wishful thinking?
Methinks a bit of both.
For conspiracy theory buffs”It’s all a Cossie farewell and a Minchin (SA being the home of fakes) beat up to get rid of Truffles and that “Call” cossie has been waiting on will surly come soon”
Relevant precedent:
1. Heffernan uses forged docs vs Kirby J; and
2. Howard, JW conclusively proven to have misled parliament several times about his dealings with Dick Honan in that imported ethanol affair.
QED, no one has to resign whatever happens.
ABC methodology is clear from this paragraph.
1. Journalists followed AFP cars to Grech’s residence and/or journalists were already staking out Grech’s residence.
2. “is believed to have been sent” is nothing more than speculation or at the very most quoting unattributable sources who may or may not be AFP personnel.
On the evidence of this story, the AFP have done nothing untoward.
3. Peter Debnam accused Bob Debus, using Parliamentary privilege, of being under police investigation. He didn’t resign (but he did lose the election).
More for Conspiracy buffs quoth from PB blog ” Caroline on thepunch wrote this:
“The Turnbull staffer in question must be Paul Lindwall. Interestingly, Paul used to work for Treasury and used to work for Costello. But Paul resigned as Turnbull’s economic advisor in April, later agreeing to stay on through the Budget resonse in late May. Conspiracy theories anyone? Now I’m wondering if the timing of Costello’s departure is relevant…?” end of quoth comments?? observations??
Malcolm Turnbull has positively disowned any connection between the Parliamentary Liberal Party and the Grech email.
It behoves Turnbull, however, frankly to explain how it came into his possession.
Instead, he is hiding behind “the proper course” of an AFP investigation.
Turnbull is being disingenuous. Frank testimony of Turnbull’s personal knowledge of the email would not in any way be prejudicial to a police investigation.
Turnbull is now brassing it out and attempting to buy some time.
The Lindwall Sting has a nice symmetry about it.
But unless and until the email is linked to him the allegation remains in the realms of delicious speculation about the hellish conditions that might persist in the Liberal Party.
If the Lindwall Sting is correct, the Tories will not win federal office for at least three electoral cycles.
Now Abbott is screeching that involvement of the AFP shows we’re now a ‘police state.’ WTF! According to the Mad Monk, Rudd has called in the AFP solely because he didn’t like the Daily Tele article. Oh well – we’ll just ignore the fact that a fraudulent email has been written in an effort of get rid of the PM. Nothing to worry about there.
Sadly, this ‘everybody wins’ scenario will not eventuate if criminal charges are brought against a Turnbull staffer.
Google the demise of Willy Brandt. Of course poor Herr Brandt had no way of knowing that one of his staffers was a Warsaw Pact spy, but he really had no choice but to fall on his sword. Now, if the Baronet has a forger on his staff (if), then too bad for the Baronet—his fate will be sealed. Swannie could dance naked on the tray of his 2007 Hilux through beautiful downtown Brisvegas, cavorting with greasy Ford executives, snowballing wadded-up $100 dollars bills with his corporate cronies… and nobody would care one whit, not if Turnbull (whether a sitting MP, or recently retired from politics) has suddenly been called to testify in the trial of an ex-Liberal aide. That is, of course, if.
Ken Lovell @ 69, quite.
Baraolka @51, please try to keep up. The email was generated in treasury by a person or persons unknown as yet, neither the PM nor Swan nor their respective offices had anything to do with the fake email. Sadly for you, neither of them mislead parliament on this matter.
Unfortunately imo, Godwin Grech has been the patsy in all of this and I think he realised it when Eric Abetz read out the contents of the email at the Senate hearing which was the reason he looked so upset.
Ken @69, it’s just incredible how all these people have allowed themselves to be distracted by the facts, when they should be concentrating on important things like whether the treasurer gets faxes and more sinister still, that he talks to the PM.
And he bought a car from a bloke that a bloke he works with knows at an incriminating location 45kms from where he lives. Very suspicious behaviour, imo. Nobody ever buys a car from a car yard recommended by someone at the office, particularly if it’s not within walking distance of their house.
Anyone who has, should be arrested and thrown in the slammer immediately, no questions asked……oh sorry, that’s the provenance of the Murdoch press and the Liberal party. Seen any good emails, lately?
I’m having a delightful afternoon sniggering at Turnbull’s expense, and then Nickws mentions Swannie nekkid and dancing. My eyes! My eyes!
Jane @81 I assume you feel it is coincidence that a man donating a ute to the PM has his requests for routine government assistance forwarded to the Treasurer himself, the Treasury Secretary and assorted beauracractic heavies. It is clear that connections were employed to expedite the gentleman’s inquiry which is what David Pendlebury is correct to point out in teh article linked in the post above.
This is unconnected to the fake email.
Nick @80. Certain imagery you employ is…disturbing
Mercurius @ 70. According to the SMH http://www.smh.com.au/national/utegate-police-chief-to-shed-light-on-fake-email-20090622-ctfq.html “Mr Grech was kept in a safe house over the weekend by the federal police.”
So it does look like he was empanelled.
Why not Tailgategate? What’s the matter with subbies today?
Hockey’s got a bad case of pork chopping today. Swine flu, perhaps?
Baraholka, you’re reeeeeeaching, but you’re not grasping.
There is no suggestion by anybody, not even the Opposition, that ‘the gentleman’s inquiry’ resulted in ‘the gentleman’ receiving anything other than that to which he was entitled under the normal functioning of the OzCar scheme. ie. There was no ‘special benefit’, no ‘money for the mates’, no ‘special outcome’. It appears as thought it was handled by OzCar using the same guidelines as everybody else. No rules bent or broken — that has never been the basis of Turnbull’s allegation, so it’s a bit lame for you to be putting it about. In fact, does anybody know if the car dealer got anything at all out of this? There has been no suggestion even by Hockey or Turnbull that the dealer received anything inappropriate — or, indeed, a brass razoo.
The whole thing Turnbull’s trying to stitch up is that did Swan or Rudd mislead parliament by stating their offices had no knowledge or involvement? Clearly Rudd’s office did not, ergo Rudd did not mislead parliament, and Turnbull’s suit there is now a busted flush. As to what the Treasurer’s home fax might or might not have received, let that come out in the fullness of time and the investigation.
But if you think the Treasurer’s fax is unconnected to this “fraudulent email” business, you’re kidding yourself. If somebody can fake an email, they can fake a fax, mate. I agree it’s peculiar for a Treasurer to be informed at a micro-level about the enquiry of a single car dealer: but in view of what looks increasingly likely to be a fraudulent email trying to snare Rudd, don’tcha think it’s possible, just possible, they were trying to get Swann as well? A twofer one?
So for every car dealer that approached Swann’s office about the scheme his office asked treasury officials to bring up the dealer’s name when talking to the Ford credit company when negotiating the OzCar scheme? From the news reports, I don’t think its been disputed that occurred for Grant.
The email is a fake. Turnbull in huge trouble. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/22/2604632.htm
PS This may be old news – been too busy today to follow.
It’s quite remarkable to have a PM and Treasurer who both come from the same little town and went to the same high school just a few years apart. It’s inevitable that they will have lots of the same people in their networks and so it should be a piece of cake to seize on a bit of random circumstantial evidence and spin some creative fiction about Swannie and Kevvie looking after their mates. The fact that this is the first such incident demonstrates to my mind how scrupulously careful they have been.
BTW Chris and lots of others, if people ask their local MP for assistance they want him or her to get them special treatment. Not something to which they are not legally entitled, but they want the MP to use their clout to oil the wheels of bureaucracy. If people are now going to argue that’s improper, it’s expressing a radically new conception of the role of a local MP; one which I venture to say is contrary to most people’s understanding and desire.
Chris, as far as I know Grant didn’t get any assistance from Ford Credit—none of the Liberal brains trust has said he got the deal, only that his name was brought up at the meeting (“A half-billion dollar meeting!!”).
Anyway, I’m in Melbourne listening to John Elliot’s son (yes, that John Elliott) hosting the drivetime show on 3AW, and he’s saying the only thing wrong with Grant’s relationship with the terrible duo is that he has ‘too much access, but he’s Rudd’s neighbour so it’s understandable’.
Hmm, the Organ’s initial efforts at eating shit over this episode are a delicious entree – which wont spoil my appetite for the main course in the coming days. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25671252-601,00.html
LOL. Cant they get anything right?
Turnbull’s in for a hell of a ride over the next few days. I do look forward to him denying involvement in these criminal activities *rubs hands, pulls up chair*
Remeber those low ratings Talcum? Yeah: they were your honeymoon.
Baraholka, if it’s any consolation I am only just barely beginning to get a grip on this confusing stoush myself.
It seems to be turning out enjoyably, though. [turns on popcorn machine]
Censure moved by Turnbull, Govt walks, Turnbull addressing empty benches. The Libs have lost the day comprehensively.
Here’s the censure motion! Finally. Only the Treasurer, though, and Turnbull’s already been censured once today…
Best day of Parliament for ages!
I read today that Grant did not in fact get his finance from Ford credit, to whom Grech had spoken.
Yep, that’s right Sean. As I said up-thread, nobody, not even the Opposition, is alleging that OzCar handled this in anything other than the proper manner, with Grant getting his exact entitlement — in this case, nada.
So, Swan’s issue hinges on whether he misled Parliament about a car dealer who got no benefit from Swan’s supposed ‘favour’. Some ‘favour’.
Meanwhile, it looks like someone cooked up some fraudulent ‘evidence’ to try and snare the PM.
Somehow I doubt the heat will be back on Swan any time soon.
Yes, in general I agree. But I think an MP asking government officials to ask a private company to help out someone whilst in the middle of negotiating a bunch of government funding for that company is borderline on what is acceptable. Its pretty much irrelevant whether or not Grant got any benefit in the end, its whether or not what Swan did was appropriate.
Further issue: just how competent/forthright is Treasury in its claimed search of all deleted emails? (This has been noted at Tim Blair’s, and it is a curious side issue, isn’t it?)
“Opposition Treasury spokesman Joe Hockey had earlier seized on an ABC report that the missing email had been found to defend his leader amid heated and acrimonious debate in parliament. Mr Hockey said the reports contradicted Kevin Rudd’s claim that no email existed.” ..Opposition Organ.
And the award for Fastest Footwork Under Pressure goes to……. Sloppy Joe.
(“WTF is Hockey trying to do?” was what Leinad said@39, as it happened. Probably out of awe, I would suggest. I just want to see the replay.)
S’pose I better go and watch the five o’ clock news on Channel 10. settle down to watch Slaughter on the Liberals, music by – oh, hell, why not – Johnny Farham, graphics by Disney. Fake documents provided by Liberal mole putting into practice recent training with CIA. Geez, I’m getting carried away here. Bush is gone.
see ya.
To me the interesting side issue is the “safe house” for Mr Grech over the weekend. Which of the 2 major parties was gonna get all Finks vs Bandidos on his arse?
Merc @ 87.
As George Mega said on Insiders, Swan’s involvement is about process not outcomes. The issue on this point (not about the fake email, not about teh faxing to Swan;s house) is that all requests for govt. assistance should be treated equally.
As Phillip Coorey wrote in the SMH today:
Note: Those legitimate correspondences in the sense they are not faked. No-one disputes them.
Why the micro-level involvement of Swan and Henry? Because Grant donated a ute to Rudd.
Read Steve @77 and Sir Henry Castlebrook @107 in the original Ozcar thread here. Consider Kat’s observation that Rudd, moving a Point Of Order on teh AFP involvement was ‘stinking of fear’.
Grant got help over and beyong what others got because of his donation to Rudd. That’s not right. Regardless of whether he gota brass razoo or not.
That’s why I believe Rudd deserves a censure.
I’m still having trouble in understanding why I should care?
Hey! There’s an incipient revolution taking hold in Iran!
What? Somebody sent the Treasurer a fax?! Treasury can haz email? Hold the front page!
What’s also concerning, Merc, is this piece about Grech. If the email was allegedly sent from within Treasury to Grech, purporting to be Andrew Charlton from the PM’s office, that would explain his testimony to the Senate enquiry.
I’m not saying that’s what happened, but it is concerning that this man may become a scapegoat without being involved. But then I think we’ll have to wait and see. Hopefully the police inquiry will get to the bottom of it all.
The full transcript of the Senate hearings on Friday is available here.
Rythm Stick: you missed my quip at 38!
Tim Blair, Tim Blair, the name rings a bell [checks Terrorgraph blogger] Ah, yes. Unfortunately he doesn’t appear to have written anything today about the integrity of the email search carried out by the public service, which is odd, as he wrote at 3:15 this morning that he’d be attending question time, presumably seated in the press gallery. Must still be Woodward-Bernsteining out the truth of the matter.
But he gave us this gem:
Oh, TB, you and your incisive wit! If only you didn’t live in a reality where the only crime contemplated in this matter appears to have been dreamt up by non-Lefties! Allegedly.
Yes we naturally have to wait for investigations to end – hopefully more quickly than the AFP managed with Haneef – but I think if I had been giving evidence to a bunch of MPs last Friday in which the status of a certain email was going to be a burning issue, I would have taken the bloody thing with me. Not left it at home and then apparently forgotten whether I even had it.
There may be a perfectly rational explanation. I can’t think of one, but we’ll see what eventuates.
A day wherein was proved the existence of “Weapons of Mess Distribution”.
The Libs performance in parliament today was pathetic. At one point the only member of the Opposition front bench still there was Tony Abbott – the rest were obviously madly ringing every journo they know trying to put the best spin on things.
They didn’t even put a censure motion up – that’s how much their case has fallen apart. They’re now trying to run away from this as fast as they can.
And Malcolm Turnbull, who had a look somewhere between haggard and hangdog, just seemed punch-drunk. He was reduced at one stage to sputtering something along the lines of: “…but, but, I’m hardly the first Oppostion leader to call on a PM to resign.” Sorry, I can remember Labor ever calling on Howard to resign.
And now it is emerging from the car industry that the treatment of the car dealer in question was no different from what others received. Indeed, other car dealers were dealt with even more promptly.
Turnbull may be a QC from the posh side of Sydney, but doesn’t have any judgement. He’s a posh Mark Latham – a clown in pinstripes.
…I meant can’t remember Labor ever calling on Howard to resign. Sorry.
Ginja – there were regular calls for Howard’ resignation.
I think a censure motion against Swan came straight after QT.
Laurie Oaks says Turnbull has egg all over his face.
Has anyone heard any mutterings about Turnbull resigning yet? His credibility and judgement are shot to pieces.
Apparently Annabel Crabb in the current Quarterly Essay says Turnbull’s got form on this – hawking secret info that never materializes. As Peter Hartcher wrote today – “too much swash and not enough buckle” for Malcolm.
Chick, Chick BOOM!
Perhaps I’m gaily foolish, but Swan’s 10 minutes or so with Kelly on RN Brekkie:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2009/2604283.htm
seemed to address the questions of process; and as mentioned by Grattan on air after the Swan interview, can be proven by releasing other emails pertaining to the same matter but about other dealers.
It’s in the tone, apparently.
I can’t see at this stage of things that Swan has commmitted either an inappropriate action as regards process, nor misled parliament on those matters.
But quite how Lord Turnbull is this evening is altogether a different matter. Particularly impressed with the Mad Monk’s efforts earlier today. Would have been too too silly to have Abetz deliver the line…
Several points require reiteration.
Mr Turnbull was formerly termed ‘Viscount’ rather than Baronet. His is not an hereditary title.
The family name Abetz is derived from the phrase “aids and abets”.
There is now Godwin’s (Second) Law: he who treats Godwin unkindly does so at considerable personal risk.
All else is flim-flam.
Slightly off topic…
I reckon the only good thing I can thank rodent for is Australia’s strict gun laws. Unlike the US.
Just consider some of the dumb/illegal things some gLibs (and associates) have done to try and hold/grab power. These “conservatives” believe there is only one rightful ruling party and seem to be getting ever more desperate to make things Right. And no… I am NOT saying Joe Hockey can’t be trusted with an automatic weapon… Julie Bishop on the other hand…
The Viscount has been interviewed by Kerry on 7.30 Report. The Viscount opined that “Mr Grech was under tremendous pressure from a senior Treasury official and Labor Senators, not to answer questions.”
“This was calculated to arouse suspicions….”
Calculated?? Your suspicions may have been aroused, Viscount. But don’t claim all the nasty persons misled you in that Senate committee. I thought the footage showed that quite a deal of pressure was being applied by Senator Abetz. The Hammer of Eric. The Inquisitor of Queenbeyan. The Grand Vizier and Chief Poo-Bah of Propriety.
Ahhhh where’s Ros when you need her? She’d put us right: it was all “a kind of Chaser-style prank.”
Turnbull still has no explanation as to why he harangued Andrew Charlton of the PM’s staff at a social occasion on Wednesday 17 June and accused him of lying. Turnbull does not deny tis (see The Australian where Turnbull says it is a sad reflection on the Labor Party that they see advice to obey the ninth commandment (Thou shalt not bear false witness, or lie), as being bullying. But on what basis did Turnbull conclude Charlton was lying. Charlton quotes Turnbull as sayin words to the effect of “You know, and I know, that there is documentary evidence that you lied.” What was this documentary evidence, other than the forged email?
On 7.30 Report Viscount Turnbull seemed to be saying he’d been aware of “the email” for a couple of weeks, through rumour and chatting to journalists.
Mercurious:
Katz:
Much closer methinks.
Now I’m normally for the defence, but IMHO, whoever manufactured that email could conceivably be charged with:
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca191482/s41.html
Proving the element “must have intended that a person be charged” would be very difficult however.
Perhaps s43: “Attempting to pervert justice”?
Nah, if I were Rudd I’d call him/her before the bar of the House:
Parliamentary Privileges Act 1987: s4
Only 6 months max [s7(1)] in the slammer, but what a way to rub Malcolm’s nose in it!
I gotta love the shamelessness of Bob Brown. After the Greens voted for this ridiculous Senate inquiry, he has the chutzpah to say in a grab on the news that there are more important things to debate – like the ETS.
I know I’ll get some tedious lecture from a Greens supporter about open and accountable government, but this is just one more example of how cynical the Greens are. Gullible Greens supporters fall for their butter-wouldn’t-melt routine everytime.
As a Labor supporter, I don’t fear clowns like Turnbull and Hockey, but I do worry about the Greens.
Ginga I think Brown is walking and chewing gum at the same time
Worst part of the whole bluddy story is it weren’t even a good Ute. No V8 fer starters.
Fark that Turnbull feller though – geez he’s a goose. Thinks parliament is like one of them courts on TV where the lawyer sez “AHA GOT YOUSE!” and the music and credits start up. Hockey’ll be leader inside a four weeks I reckon.
Wait! This could be the chance ‘Crazy Eyes’ has been waiting for. Time to step up!
Not Hockey Ute Beaut, not Hockey.
He lacks gravitas. He was all over the place in response to the Budget (even after a couple of days reading time).
Today he was yelling for Swannie’s demise at the despatch box, like a 10-year-old boy in the playground. Lacks gravitas. Has granite arse. Should stay seated. Does not do well when on feet.
Not that I’m claiming Ring Tone has gravitas. The patronisers won’t allow Julie to rule. Who then does it leave? $weetie with a guaranteed departure date. The Viscount Turnbull fuming on the backbenches…..
Actually, this must all be the Greens fault. If they didn’t have Rudd held to account for the CPRS and Malcolm as an unwilling ally, there would be no need for high theatre about fictitious emails.
The best form of defence is offence. Hence Turnbull going Rudd, then Rudd going Turnbull, then Turnbull going Swan, while Rudd keeps going Turnbull.
What a sideshow.
Sidenote. Whenever Labor supporters start going on about the sins of the Greens all it does is make me remember exactly how it happened that Stephen Fielding got into the Senate. Sorry. Probably not in ALP’s best interests going forward to keep reminding us swinging progressive voters of that one.
Tony Toxic?
Please Jesus, let it be Tony *crosses self*
I dunno Ambi – I reckon yer thinkin’ on it too much. Rudd an’ Hockey was on the telly together. If it worked fer Rudd, it’ll work for Hockey. Plus, y’know, he’s (whats that word again?) a vunkular. Now I’ve never vunked before, but I’ll bet it’s a good old country pastime like bocce, so it’ll play good in the suburbs.
A-vunking we will go!
So it has been confirmed that there are emails which support Wayne Swan’s assertions that other car dealers received a similar amount or more attention than John Grant did from the Treasurer’s office. (Chris Uhlmann waved some sheets of paper around on Lateline.) Does this mean it’s nearly over?
What a shameful episode; not the least horrible part of which is the obvious pain inflicted upon Gordon Gech, a man put under immense pressure and clearly distressed. Someone should be held to account for this at least.
Sorry, Godwin, not Gordon.
What got me about Malcolm on the 7.30 Report was how in his twisted logic, it was Swannie who was responsible for the fake e-mail because it was on a Treasury computer. Used to think Malcolm mighta had something. Not any more. The man’s a blithering idiot, unfit to be PM.
Noticed the dog you leave in the backseat of the car and tell to bark at passers by was on Lateline with Anthony Albanes. Too boring to watch.
“Sorry, Godwin, not Gordon.”
And Gretch not Gech.
And the “pressure” may have been self-made.
Bernice @115
I am far from convinced that Swan’s process was as perfunctory or as disinterested as he claims.
The now famous Senate Estimate Commitee containing Grech’s testimony is quite compelling on this. I recommend everyone who hasn’t already has a read. The relevant transcript is Senate ECONOMICS LEGISLATION COMMITTEE – 19/06/2009 – Car Dealership Financing Guarantee Appropriation Bill 2009.
On the 7:30 Report tonight Rudd several times emphasised that Grech was uncertain or unsure in his testimony. Grech is in fact completely lucid and clear. Rudd is trying to undermine Grech.
Rudd and Swan emphasise the remarks of Michael Delaney, chief of the Motor Traders Association Of Australia that Grant received no more assistance than anyone else. As Kerry O’Brien quickly pointed out Delaney cannot be aware of interactions between Treasury the Minister and Rudd which are the substance of the improper process remarks made by George Mega.
Swan got on the phone to talk to Grant and neither he nor Rudd will admit how many others got a phone cal from Swan. I’ll bet you the answer is zero.
Of all applicants, ONLY progress on Grant’s was emailed directly to Swan (NB different to fax) see “Rudd swerves on car scandal”, SMH today.
At the Ford Credit meeting ONLY Grant’s application was discussed with the other business and only Grant’s mobile phone number was provided.
Swan is withholding “Commercial In Confidence” Car Dealer emails forwarded by Gretch to Treasury/Swan in addition to Grant’s with the exception of those pertaining to Kay Hull’s approach to Swan. Why not release them all ? Hull’s are Commercial In Confidence too.
Here’s some testimony from Grech at the Senate Committee:
- Treasury asked Gretch to raise Grant with Ford Credit on the Friday before the Monday meeting with them. Late that afternoon Grech emailed Tresury saying he had spoken with Grant. 10 minutes later Treasury replied saying ‘We really appeciate this’, asking to be kept in the loop regarding Grant’s position with Ford Credit and requesting specific details of how Grant might not fit in with Ford Credit.
Within an hour Treasury then calls John Grant and by 7:30 that same evening saying a fax is sent to Swan saying ‘Treasurer, Gretch and I (Andrew Thomas from Treasury) have spoken to John Grant this evening’
After the Monday meeting, Grech reported to Treasury on the FordCredit meeting where Grant’s mobile number was given to Ford Credit with updates on Grant’s progress with Ford Credit. Four days after this Grech calls Grant again and reports this to Treasury who within 30 minutes replay saying ‘Great work Godwin, Just so you know, these emails are going to the Treasurer’s home fax’
Grech testified that this is the ONLY occasion that he was informed that emails were going to Swan’s personal fax
Mr Grech —Senator, actually I have been in the public service now for 20 years, and I take my work very seriously. When a Minister’s office—I previously also worked in Prime Minister and Cabinet—so when the PMO or the Treasurer’s office approach you with something, you give it priority. In the case of Mr Grant, the referral came from Andrew, and it was made clear to me that it was something that had to be managed and that is what I tried to do.
Annd here is Grech’s ‘not your average constituent comment. He makes clear that he has been given the impression that Grant has a relationship with Swanand this is why Grant has special visibility within Treasury.
To me the above it is pretty clear that Swan asked Treasury to expedite Grant’s application. That’s doing a favour for a mate, albeit a fairly small one. The favour arises because Grant donated a car to Rudd and has some relationship with Swan. I think that’s grounds for a parliemtray censure of Rudd/Swan.
Swan has been trying in interviews to say that Grant was handled no differently to the car dealer assisted by Grech via representations to Swan from Kay Hulls. Grech is absolutely clear that the Hulls file is chalk and cheese to the Grant file. Insiders played the following exchange:
Indeed Paul B, but what gets me is how Malcolm has apparently forgotten the principle of respondeat superior, that an employee is ONLY responsible for the actions of an employee who acts within the scope of that employment. When of course, as it appears a treasury official has apparently gone on a frolic of his/her own employer [debatable] Swan is not, cannot be held responsible.
Pathetic, puerile and legally wrong Mr Opposition leader!
That’s politics . . .
Jesus, Baraholka, I nearly lost the will to live skimming your latest effort.
Still, no surprises. The tories were caught out in a lie. Again.
Turnbull is getting done like a dinner – and its only just started. With that irresistible combo of hapless political amateur and complete egomaniac, its hard not to enjoy the spectacle. Here’s Rudd tonight http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/22/2605368.htm
“For Mr Turnbull as the alternative prime minister – and he’s a person trained as a lawyer – not to administer any basic due diligence to this forged email, and to mount a capital case against the Prime Minister of the day calling for him to resign, accusing of being corrupt, shows such a lack of judgement on his part that he is no longer fit to occupy the office of leader of the Opposition,” he said.
Let me just note that on Saturday, BBB was suggesting I must have been drunk to trivialise the weighty allegations behind “Utegate” and a large number of people were predicting that Kevin Rudd would have to resign. That I was showing my true partisan colours by downplaying the seriousness of it all, etc, etc.
Guy Beres sums up the substance of this piece of confected indignation:
http://guyberes.com/2009/06/22/utegate-and-related-codswallop/
Kim @141, great link, says it all about the whole sorry affair.
I thought Hockey deserved a nod for the next Oscar for his spittle-flecked faux outrage in parliament. How he could maintain a straight face while delivering those lines is beyond me.
Fortunately, I think the sting has been taken out of Trunchbull and his cohorts. Tony Abbott was pretty subdued on Lateline, I thought. It’s been quite astonishing to hear the parade of ex-Rodentopia Liberals babbling on about integrity. Even more extraordinary is the number of Rodent lovers’ breathless outrage about this non-event, considering the track record of their hero and his partners in crime.
Oh well, it’s provided a bit of humour to liven up the cold weather. I expect it will fizzle out in the next day or two, despite the best efforts of Milne, Onselen and the usual suspects trying to milk some more confected outrage out of it.
It doesn’t seem to have had much impact in voterland. There’d be vast piles of letters to various editors if they thought it was important; I suspect quite few have probably put it down to a stunt by Trunchbull in an attempt to jack up his approval rating. I don’t think it’ll have the desired effect.
He’s a sloppy, puffed-up clown, who didn’t even have the wit to check the provenance of his much trumpeted “proof” of wrong-doing, particularly after the Scientologygate business in SA.
I was reassured that at least Kerry O’Brien tonight picked up on what was my sense of Godwin Gretch’s Treasury minder looking out for him rather than trying to muzzle him. How come no other commentators suggested that?
Astonishing to me too has been the failure of most commentators to wonder at that “Good work, Mr Gretch!” from Eric Abetz when he got the response he was angling for, though some journalists did note his unusual courtesy in that Senate hearing without finding it unduly suspicious.
Watching Malcolm Turnbull tonight I was outraged by his brazen effrontery. Does he think we are all fools who will forget everything he has been throwing at the press, the parliament and the public about the dishonesty of both Rudd and Swann for weeks now? Does he really think that since the case against the PM is “no longer sustainable” it can be set aside and forgotten so that he can continue his witch hunt of the Treasurer? Does he think that conceding he was “mistaken” about the publication of the fake e-mail on Saturday lets him off the lie he had earlier broadcast? Can he really think we will accept his cynical argument that the Treasurer rather than the Opposition is responsible for the fake email since it emanated from a Treasury official?
As a silver tongued barrister, used to winning courtroom battles, I guess he will go on arguing black is white for ever. I once admired Malcolm Turnbull as a committed Republican and potentially a good Opposition leader and I was grateful for though a bit puzzled by John Howard’s elevation of him. I now understand that Howard saw in him a man of his own ilk. God help Australia if Malcolm Turnbull remains as Opposition Leader and should ever win an election.
No.119 asks a pivotal question. It was important enough that Glenn Milne tried to cast doubt over it as recently as yesterday. It’s curious that Dr Charlton felt compelled to break that ninth commandment immediately by rushing off to make an ‘inaccurate and incomplete’ account, no? In fact, if one follows the breadcrumbs, one can almost know that it’s not possible for Malcolm to have been offering advice without knowing who knew about the email, and it’s only a hop skip and a jump from there to realising that to know about it is to have known who authored it, if it wasn’t Charlton and Charlton was just an expedient sacrifice to a greater cause, including vanquishing key advisors and would-be future Labor leaders. But meh, it blew up in Grech’s hands and not Charlton’s. Not nearly as much fun, so deep-six Wednesday’s avuncular chat.
I have here a shiny silver shilling for anyone who can clearly explain to me what the fuck this was all about. In hat what way does this make it clear whether Rudd or Turnbuall should run Australia P/L?
Well, okay it’s really a shiny penny. No, please keep it anyway. The voting booth’s thataway.
Patricia of WA @143, I think Trunchbull’s nowhere near as cunning or meticulous as Howard, but you’re right that he is cut from the same cloth. He’s come out of this fiasco of his own creation very much tarnished and distinctly shopsoiled, imo. His childish refusal to accept any responsibility for his lack of judgement and sloppy handling of the affair makes my blood boil, too.
However, if he thinks Rudd will let him off the hook quite so easily, he’s underestimated his opponent. He might think he’s dismissed emailgate, but the government is gunning for him now and no amount of bluster from him or his attack dogs will save his neck. Good riddance, I say.
Nobody @144, Trunchbull and Abbott reckon there have been rumours floating around about the email all month so I reckon Trunchbull was just testing the waters with Charlton, seeing if he’d take the bait. I was particularly nauseated by the Poisoned Dwarf’s piece claiming that Charlton hasn’t been sleeping well, with the implication being that there has been some dark secret weighing on his mind and that he was grateful for Uncle Malvolio’s wise counsel. There is no limit to their sleaziness.
I really hope they find some evidence in Trunchbull’s office. It’d be such fun watching him try to slither out of that little lot.
All the typos above are direct quotes from another comment I can’t seem to find right now.
What a grand circus act. Periodically our Parliament reaches frenzy point over some trivia, later difficult to recall. Is this what Paul Keating meant by “throwing the switch to vaudeville”?
The Viscount would merely sack his office boy if that boy had been involved in a dastardly act. He would have no reason to resign, Mr Speaker. He would continue to carry the case against this most wicked of Governments, its reputation “prostituted”, traduced, for he carries the sacred trust of 47% of the electorate, the hopes of all Liberal branch stackers, the dreams of a return to lodge in The Lodge.
Yes, he carries a brief. He is a lawyer’s lawyer. He was threatened by Kerry Packer. What more proof is needed, Mr Speaker?
“I have here the Zinoviev Letter, a first edition of “The Protocols…”, the car records of Kirby J, the contents of the Minister’s rubbish bin, and a very old Hansard. And why, may I ask, has the Australia Council refused a grant – even the most meagre, scarcely enough to keep one in French champagne – to Ern Malley, our greatest poet???”
Fer shame! Don’t your know Bts can be created just like viscounts, and they’re both hereditary!
Anyway, I heard that her gracious Maj downgraded Malcolm from the one to the other because she was angry at the cat-strangling story…
We would be very wise not to let him anywhere near the corgis.
Baraholka, Mr Grech is helping police with their inquiries, as the saying goes. A forged email was found at his house which he unaccountably couldn’t remember in his Senate inquiry appearance. The fact that you can still trumpet his testimony as if it is reliable evidence about anything at all shows the depths of desperate self-delusion which some conservatives have plumbed.
Malcolm Turnbull on AM today (Tuesday) continues to dig himself deeper into a hole by saying that the Opposition never relied on documentary evidence for his call for the Prime Minister and Treasurer to resign over the OZcar issue. He said on AM that he was relying on the evidence of Godwin Grech before the Senate inquiry on the Friday.
Leaving aside the fact that the credibility of Mr Grech is now in doubt, if what Turnbull now says is correct then he was lying when he told the PM’s staffer Andrew Charlton two days earlier on the Wednesday that he knew and Charlton knew there was documentary evidence that Charlton was lying to protect his boss.
Turnbull would also have us believe that the Opposition members who were briefing the Press on the Friday that there was documentary evidence did so without his knowledge.
With apologies to Sir Walter Scott, the following seems appropriate: Oh what a tanged web Malcolm Turnbull weaves, As he continues to deceive.
‘… in the latest twist to the story, Coalition sources have confirmed that Mr Grech worked for shadow treasurer Joe Hockey a decade ago when Mr Hockey was the minister for financial services and regulation.’
(http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2605441.htm)
Hahahahaha.
Oh BTW ‘Police raided Treasury official Godwin Grech’s home, uncovered the email and declared it a fake. They suspect Mr Grech was involved in creating it.’
Still find his evidence ‘compelling’ Baraholka?
The sad thing is the Libs’ instinct to rely on lies and deception is nothing new. It’s just that when they were in government, they were allowed to get away with it. The fact that Heffernan even remains a member of the party, let alone a senator, testifies to their contempt for any standards of decency in politics.
Ken @151.
Relax. I also drink latte.
Turnbull is a gullible nong. He deserves what he gets.
My rundown on Grech’s testimony @136 is a summary of tabled emails received by the Senate Committee. No-one disputes their authenticity or their chronology. The forged email is a different matter.
My contention is that the ‘latte sniffers here are going too easy on Rudd/Swan”. not that ‘Turnbull is right’.
Read Grech’s testimony. It’s obvious Grant was being Rolls-Royced through the application process because of his connection to Rudd/Swan. I think that’s inappropriate. As is raising Grant’s personal application during the Ford credit meeting.
Did G. Grech ever work for J. Hockey?
“Did G. Grech ever work for J. Hockey?”
Yes, for a short time, some 10 years back.
He tried to contact him just last weekend, to find out if he was feeling OK, he claimed.
Naturally, I now have this old classic on the brain:
It’s cute!
It’s the ute!
Nickws
Yes, you’re correct of course. But in this Viscount’s case an exception was made. His title was not to adhere to his offspring. Similar to “life peerage”. I refer you to the relevant Court Circular. Long live her Maj and the acuity of her advisors.
JohnL: that’s very interesting, because I distinctly remember “documentary evidence” was put forward by the Viscount for Life, last week. Partly but not wholly because Mr Grech in his Senate testimony had spoken of a variety of communications (including emails).
Also the Viscount said on “7.30 Report” last night that he had been aware of “the email” for some days (weeks?) before Mr Grech’s appearance.
At least Senator Abetz back-pedalled yesterday by saying he would not answer questions from journalists but would explain all to the AFP.
From The Age:
From Grech’s Senate testimony:
The evidence points to the likelihood that Mr Grech was referring in this Senate testimony to a forged email of his own creation.
Perjury and conspiracy to bring a false accusation are very serious offences.
Quite possibly, Mr Grech is wishing that he could accept the option of taking on filing duties at the Gympie Office.
Before we get too excited about the possible case against Mr Grech rememeber the Feds also said they had a powerful case against an Indian doctor a couple of years ago.
I think we all need to calm down and wait to let the Feds do their job. This is a complicated case.
Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
Even if the Scarlet Pimpernel came to his aid Baronety Turnbull couldn’t get out of this one.
No they didn’t.
As Grech is led out of the cells in the basement of the federal police headquarters in handcuffs he runs into a phalanx of TV cameras and reporters. He lifts up his handcuffed hands and yells out: “I’m just a patsy”. Then out of the crowd comes out a large, corpulent man that from the rear looks a lot like Joe Hockey, produces a snubnosed .38 Smith & Wesson. Bang, bang. And the rest is history.
‘Before we get too excited about the possible case against Mr Grech rememeber the Feds also said they had a powerful case against an Indian doctor a couple of years ago.’
No tssk, it was the Libs and News Ltd journos who peddled that particular line of deception, based on alleged documentary evidence that turned out to be non-existent. Later of course SBS got into the act with their forged ‘Indian police report’.
But don’t let me suggest there’s any kind of pattern here, you try to work it out for yourself.
Katz @ 162. Oops, you’re right. The media said there was a powerful case. In any case the same still stands here. He might be guilty. He might have been set up.
We don’t know yet.
Did Joe Hockey run the same strip club that Rudd attended?
Coincidence? You decide.
(Same again to Ken. In my rush to make my point I forgot the exact timeline of that case. Off topic but how on earth did News Ltd avoid getting sued by Mr Haneef?)
I’m wracking my brains to think of what, besides the Spycatcher trial and the Wentworth preselection, Turnbull has actually won, in his long and high-profile career?
Leadership of the federal Liberal Party and her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition in the Commonwealth of Australia?
Well, he’s won a lot of money.
I was going to say he won being head of the republican movement.
But I think that was gifted by PK and that creep who played the gay flight attendant on television.
You’d be too young to remember this Mercurius but T-Bully won quite a lot out of a merchant bank set up with Nick Whitlam and Neville Wran and then there was the Allcorp Cleaning company which had a yummy contract with Peter Abeles (TNT). Then there is the T-Bully owned Axiom Ltd subsidiary Sylvania Forest Products that clear-felled Solomn Island and netted T/B $25 mil. I could go on…
Yes Nickws. I think the comment up-thread about Turnbull being a “lawyer’s lawyer” is apposite. There are any number of person who are held in the highest esteem among members of their own profession, but who would find it difficult to get the time of day from anybody outside it.
Guilty or not guilty, this should NOT be happening to Godwin Grech.
http://livenews.com.au/news/godwin-grechs-home-egged-amid-ozcar-scandal/2009/6/23/210829
In an earlier version of the story his neighbour was going around to clean up the egg spatter as Mr. Grech hardly ever came out of his house.
Does anybody else sense, for this man at least, this whole saga might have the makings of a terrible tragedy? No wonder he needed protecting. His whole life revolves around fixing up the fall out of insurance scams for government or, also for government, running a scheme that helps car companies/dealers fend off the GFC and this shit happens to him (assuming he was only the recipient of the fake e-mail.) Life must be hell for him, especially he seems an intensely private man who will now be recorded in Australian political history, waiting for some bugger like me to unearth him in 30/50 years time, when nobody can hide anything, unless they’ve shredded it, like, now.
The email may have been found to be fake but the fact is it did originally come from the Treasury, a department I might add, Swan is in charge of.
There is no doubt that Grant motors did receive special treatment from Swan and his office, therefore Swan must resign. The only reason Grant got special treatment was because he is a mate of KRudds. There are many questions still to be answered by KRudd and Swan and this diversionary tactic by Labor by suggesting Turnbull had anything to do with the creation of this email is erroneous and unsubstantiated.
I note that no one in Labor have tried to finger point at Godwin Greche or the journalist who published it, why, because it doesn’t suit them politically to do so.
A focus on Turnbull and the Liberals is only distracting from the true issue here and that is KRudd, Swan, the treasury have serious questions to answer and I do believe that the AFP will discover more about Labors role in this episode that they care to have in the media.
KRudd is a master smoke screener and that in itself speaks more about Krudd than it does about Turnbull.
KRudd and Labor have buggered the economy, buggered government spending, buggered the bank guarantee, buggered the ETS, buggered the solar rebate. They have buggered everything they’ve touched and they have the audacity to lecture Turnbull on honesty and responsibility. Labor are a joke!!!
Dream on Kosuzu. I think the joke’s on you, poor sod.
Comedy gold Kosuzu please do keep up the good work.
Talking about winners and losers, what did Paul Lindwall do to deserve
being outed by David Penberthy before any politicians could do the deed, ala Dr Charlton?
Okay, News Ltd also printed the mocked-up bogus email, but I still haven’t seen any explanation as to why ‘The Punch’ would go out on a limb like they did with this yesterday. “No suggestion of wrongdoing” is a legal disclaimer you use when you think there’s smoke where there’s yadda yadda & you need not cower behind Hansard.
I’m trying hard not to theorise, but it’s hard, damn hard…
Media Watch stated last night that next week’s show would be a summing up of the whole media mess over this affair. Can’t wait.
This is just the best thing that has happened since Sonia McMahon wore that dress with the split up the side.
Oh it is so good:
A little guy with a great name.
Politicians spinning like tops.
Allegations of foul and fell deeds.
Who is the phantom emailer?
Will Malcolm go?
Clearly the Libretards planned the whole bogus email thing
Did the Smirk know about the plan and leave before the shit hit the fan?
Where are those guys in Spooks when you need them?
Huggy
Oh and another thing, do people think Costello will do a Lazerus and rise up again to claim the crown?
Do try to keep up Kosuzu.
1. The email WAS a fake.
2. It is likely that this fake was concocted by the person who was its purported recipient.
3. This person (Grech) then testified as if he thought this fake to be genuine. (Question: was Mr Grech so habituated to confecting fakes that he has lost sight of what is genuine and what isn’t?)
4. The Treasury is a place of employment for thousands of persons, most of whom have access to computers and email. The Treasurer exercises little control over the use of those computers, as no doubt the large number of Twitter accounts resident on Treasury computers would prove.)
5. The Leader of the Opposition, at the very least, failed to do due diligence on the famous email. This means that Malcolm Turnbull is either a very careless person, a dupe of a person he trusted too much, or a fellow conspirator of the forger of the email.
6. Whichever of the above is the case, Turnbull’s credentials as the alternative PM have been shredded.
7. If Swan still has a case to answer, then Turnbull might leave the file on the OL’s desk when he vacates the office. His successor may be able to do a better job with it.
“Does anybody else sense, for this man at least, this whole saga might have the makings of a terrible tragedy?”
Well, at least, lots of his friends are standing by him, Paul. Turnbull and Piers Ackerman have recently spoken to him and Joe Hockey also wanted to have a chat.
Misleading Parliament, lying to the Australian people and giving mates special treatment is no joke!
“Talking about winners and losers, what did Paul Lindwall do to deserve
being outed by David Penberthy before any politicians could do the deed, ala Dr Charlton?”
Maybe he just needed to move with the flow- someone drew attention to the information in the comments – and hope that people would not go back and read what he’d written before the scam was exposed.
It’s very serious indeed Kosuzu. It is clear that Turnbull misled parliament into thinking that the Grech correspondence was genuine.
Any other allegations remain to be proven.
“Misleading Parliament, lying to the Australian people and giving mates special treatment is no joke!”
That’s why Howard was given the boot!
Why do people think that the Treasurer is in charge of the Department of Treasury. Isn’t that Ken Henry’s job?
That has to be the weirdest line ever: “The email came from Treasury computers, Swan’s the Treasurer, so it’s Swan’s fault.”
As a TV talk-show host would say: ‘What the?’
Agreed Joe2. And if Rudd is guilty of the same best to rid us of him now before the same circus restarts.
There are a lot of similarities with the case of David Kelly. I hope that somebody is looking after Mr Grech’s welfare.
Andos, I think the idea is if they throw as much mud as possible at Swan and Rudd it will stick. Not working on Rudd but if you look at other blog and comments pages I’d say Swan is in as much trouble as Turnbull whether he’s guilty or not.
If Grech is linked to Hockey, could the affair take out him and Turnbull? That would make them the most self-destructive opposition in Australian history.
Yes. It’s unlikely. The existence of Utegate itself is also unlikely.
The email may have been found to be fake but the fact is it did originally come from the Treasury, a department I might add, Swan is in charge of.
Kosuzu’s comment is one of many that has made me very unhappy since I sat down to watch the news yesterday, because it appears that the concept of the independent public service does not exist any more.
Commenters like him, and worse still, politicians interviewed on TV, who ought to know better, blithely identified “Swan” with “Treasury” as if there was no such thing as a public service.
The increasing politicisation of the public service was, of course, one of the grubby outcomes from the Howard years, and it’s depressing to see that it seems to have stuck and become the new Normal.
AAP newsheaders currently state “Malcolm Turnbull seeks mutual apology”. Bit of a change isn’t it from the mutual masturbation the Liberals have been indulging in over the past while!
The longer this goes on the less in trouble either Rudd or Swan look.
If the Libs think that Swan is their best hand, things must be grim.
I hope this mob don’t play poker for money.
Whether Grech is a perpetrator or a patsy, I feel very sorry for him. He’s in way over his head. If he did write the email, what on earth was he thinking?
joe2 @ 183,
At this stage I’m assuming Grech is still an innocent dupe. Duped by the likes of his mates you list. I don’t really care what his political allegiance is – in his home he should be able to live in privacy and peace. And, unless the feds want to haul him off, he should be able to continue to do so when he’s charged, if he’s a person of suspicion, once he’s bailed.Stress if, alleged, etc.
OTOH, if you want to hold the basket of rotten eggs and tomatoes for me to throw at the Baronet and those who are part of his fiefdom, I won’t mind in the least.
Well they can’t lose really. I mean honestly…this won’t see Turnbull’s head at all no matter how ineptly this was handled. Unless Costello or Howard reappear.
“Agreed Joe2. And if Rudd is guilty of the same best to rid us of him now before the same circus restarts.”
I know it is difficult for you to keep up, tssk, but the bit of the story where K Rudd was allegedly guilty of something is over now. Even the nice Mr Turnbull now admits that.
Agree, Paul. Whatever Grech has done or not done, he like everybody deserves due process, protection, and the presumption of innocence. Few in the AFP, the Parliament or the media paid Dr Haneef the same courtesy, to Australia’s eternal discredit.
Even if Grech has done something wrong, then the most he should face is the normal trial and court proceedings. A public tar-and-feather and eggs job is the stuff of lynch mobs, and Australia is supposed to be better than that.
Personally, I’d be very surprised if Grech is responsible for any wrongdoing, and I hope that in time he is cleared of any suspicion. He does need to explain what a certain email that was nowhere in Treasury’s systems was doing on his computer at home, but there could be any number of explanations that put him in the clear about that.
The term “responsible” can have many meanings.
It is possible that Mr Grech is not responsible for some the contents of his home hard drive, including any documents that might have been composed on that computer. Mr Grech may have been the victim of malicious damage.
It is possible that Mr Grech co-operated in the production of the fraudulent documents without intending that they might be used for fraudulent purposes. In this case Mr Grech was not responsible for the eventual use of those documents.
It is possible that Mr Grech was suffering from some condition of diminished responsibility for his actions, that he was not in his right mind. Perhaps he is/was suffering from a particularly serious case of mid-life crisis.
It is possible that Mr Grech was subject to some form of coercion, that his compliance was extorted from him.
On the other hand, Mr Grech may have formed malice aforethought necessary to support charges of his guilt.
Update [by Kim]: The focus turns to Malcolm Turnbull’s ethics and judgment.
As usual, the journos will get off scot free in all this. They are free to manufacture stories that might ruin the lives and reputations of people who are blameless but they never face any conseqences themselves if they stuff up. The merest hint of a suggestion that they be brought before parliament to answer questions would be greeted with squeals of righteous indignation about totalitarian efforts to intimidate the press champions of liberty and free speech.
Where did Lewis get the email? What steps did he take to verify it, if any? Is fact-checking any part of the publication process at News Ltd these days, or can a journo just print any old inflammatory rubbish they like? Was Grech the source of the telephone calls he alludes to in Lewis’s fact-free self-justification, or were other Treasury officials or political staffers involved?
Just to pre-empt the usual stuff about the sacredness of sources, how can Lewis owe a duty to an informant who has set him up with a forged email and made him look a mug? Journos have a duty to protect the identities of people who tell them the truth as they understand it. They aren’t under any obligation to look after people who deliberately plant fabricated documents for political advantage.
Needless to say, Lewis is unlikely to respond to any of this and his employer is equally unlikely to make him do so.
Word, Ken Lovell.
And the “death of journalism” is supposed to be the fault of readers/bloggers/apathy/etc. Anyone but unaccountable and out of control news organisations who print stuff that basically shows contempt for the truth, and whose credibility accordingly and deservedly lies in absolute tatters.
If you criticise journos as a herd, or ring up Jon Faine (Melb ABC radio) to criticise his on-air utterances, likely as not he’ll say “ah, ‘shooting the messenger’, eh?”
Which is a pretty weak ‘defence’. “No, I’m criticising the way the message has been put, for the following specific reasons…..” [listeners bored to sobs]
I rekon that Julie Bisop should get herself a Sonia Mcmahon dress and flounce into parliament tomorrow and announce that she is taking over.
That’s what we need; then the farce will be coomplete. Please oh please.
(Ohh the thought of Julie in a Sonia dress makes me feel funny all over).
Must be time to go home.
Huggy
Huggy: For the farce of a flouncing takeover of Her Majesty’s Australian Oppositiion, a la cheongsam , to be truly complete, methinks the flouncer / taker-overer would have to be Christopher Pyne, in which case, it would be a changsan .
Posts at 206 and 207 are fantastic articles for censoring the net. Now to forget via the bottle…..
Maybe they could ask Fielding to join the Liberal Party and get him a House of Reps. seat?
What seat would elect Fielding?
His manifestation could only have happened via the dark magic of Labor Party anti-green paranoia combined with tyrany of above the line voting.
From the ABC Website:
This would be the Lib. faction that supports the next wannabe leader? Mayhap J. Hockey Esq.
Hockey would not survice six months. Needs a longer run-up than most Glaciers to get going mentally. Impressive inertia but little else to recommend. One and a half stars.
Yes, Hockey has had plenty of exposure, unfortunately. First class dill.
Alexander Downer didn’t last long but imploded out in the desert. Periodically his silly japes would make headlines. “The Things That Batter!” – height of wit; most droll, Downer Minor. *giggle*
Mr Hockey has the common touch. It would not be uncommon for him to be touched up by St Kevin, by the Venerable Swann, by that nice Mr Tanner, then finished off by Mme Gillard – le gillardine being as we all know a venerable meat mincer.
I noticed Aunty radio moving from “Utegate” to “The Ozcar Affair” now that Kev’s pride and joy is bedded safely in it’s garage.
But I was wondering why we couldn’t move quickly to beat the Italians to “Molegate”.
(That was after I gave up on “Turnbullgate” when I thought it sounded a bit too much like directions to the top paddock.)
not much up there?
I guess Mr. grech is Baronet Turnbull’s Scarlet Pimpernel after all.Except he got caught.
It’s gotta be Hockey – they got nobody else. Nobody in the libs is dumb enough to elevate the mad monk, bonkers eyes bishop or Downer Jr (aka chrissy pyne). Ain’t gonna happen. Doc Nelson is done, Nutless from Higgins is done. Ya can’t even name the rest of em without Google. He’s won the musical chairs game and you can bet he wants ice cream!
So noone’s going to take up my suggestion of “Tailgate”, Joe2?
It’s good, Groke.
Look, Ute Man. Ya turn up in a byelection down in Victoria, then youse get little Kevvie into some awfully awful botheration up north, then ya wander roun’ Canberra spreadin’ shit ‘n derision with ya crappy stunts, ‘n NOW ya got the nerve ta play King Maker? Ya proud ‘f all this trubble??? Done enough?
Go ‘n get on the piss ‘n just stop! Ya stirrer……
“tailgate” is broad, Grokey. It could be handy on the Beholder thread, if any of the blokes *confessed* to liking the shapes of ladies ***s
Only problem is “tailgate”s about following and a whole heap of us is not following this one
I was mindin’ me own business by the side of Toowong shops
Thinkin ’bout me missus cookin up some nice lamb chops
When a silver haired neat pollie sidled right up for a chat
Then I realised who he was and I fair dinkum lost me hat
I arst him “why’d you need Ute Man when you got that Tanner bloke?”
and he smiled them pursed lips as if he’s swallerin a joke
Cos he knew…
I been everywhere, man
I been everywhere, man
Combin’ Swannies hair, man
Deep in Kevvie’s lair, man
Ya wouldn’t do it for a dare, man
I been everywhere
So he gives me Godwins number and that Turnbull fellers email
I sez “I don’t use computers cos the typing makes yer female”
but he said “no mate, just take a trip and hand that card to Grech”
Cos he knew what next would happen to that shakin’ little wretch.
So I done it then I turned the battered Mazda’s nose around
Then the noise from Canberra drowned out nearly every other sound.
So I run to Tullamore, Seymour, Lismore, Mooloolaba…
Well, yer know the rest.
Been doing some research on Paul Lindwall’s Facebook site. Things have changed: 4 pm yesterday, if you went Google Images, Paul Lindwall, you got a few pictures of Paul from his Facebook site, including samples of his friends. If you clicked around a bit you found his friends included Mark Textor, Janet Albrechtsen, Anthony Benscher, Gary Nairn, Andrew Southcott, Peter Dutton, Senator David Bushby and Daniel Clode (Canberra Young Lib works for Seselja). 4 pm today, if you try the same you get nothing (except a link to Bushby’s page) and get put through to the sign up page. Covering tracks?
Any seat where a favourable preference flow from minor right wing parties then Labor elects him on 2% of the primary vote (again). Which is next to impossible in the House of Reps. But not impossible in the Senate, if Kim Carr cuts another deal with “Family Last”.
Getting back to utegate – Hockey was under the pump on Lateline. Do they have training in how to never say “yes” or “no”. These words never cross a politicians lips.
Malcolm must be limping badly, having aimed at Rudd and Swan in a rush of blood (and conspiracy regarding the email the Abetz was clearly reading from in the Senate Estimates committee), then shot both his feet.
The hunter becomes the hunted. Bored now.
Yair fair ’nuff Ute Man, if you wuz told by pursey Kevvie, then you wuz doin’ it fer the country tho’ me missus reckons Cossie’s call to do it fer the country ‘as fair put ‘er off that line o’ work.
So the Mazda made it, eh? ya must ‘ave a bonzer little rice-burner there, not like the heap of crap me mate Sh*gga whinges about. ‘e finished up givin’ it away fer nuthin’ at T*gger’s garage sale jest afore Easter. Diff wuz shot, mate.
Me nippers wuz sayin’ “The Grinch Thet Pinched Chrissie” is it the same bastard?
Groke:
Harrumph!
Everyone knows that -FAIL is the new -gate. So we should be looking at a “tailgategateFAIL” to cover the failure of commenters to have picked up on FDB’s suggestion for a cleverer handle for the whole affair than “utegate”.
Brett, I’m waiting for someone with video editing skills to put together a youtube video of The Keyboard Cat playing Turnbull out of Question Time.
More than two hours later and still nothing! What ever happened to crowdsourcing? Let’s take this to #turngatekeyboardcatfail on twitter and get some outrage happening.
I hereby open Liam’s “Gov. 2.0″ style design competition.
Terms: put Malcolm Turnbull in a video, for youtube, being “played off” by the Keyboard Cat.
Publication: You get to have your video shown on youtube and I laugh at it.
Reward: See above.