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13 responses to “Guest post by patrickg: Distant Suns VIII”

  1. David Irving (no relation)

    I’ve tried reading Vance’s stuff, but I just can’t get into it. (Admittedly, the last time I tried was at least 30 years ago.)

  2. Pterosaur

    I liked the many Vance books I have read, although, apart from the Lyonesse trilogy, I am confounded as to their titles – perhaps because I have been a voracious reader of the genre(s) for many years, until my failing eyesight discouraged me, such that I largely stopped recreational reading about 15 years ago.

    I found his writing style sufficient to engross and involve me in the worlds he devised, and that for me, is the perhaps most valued criterion by which I judge a writer’s work(s).

    I do think that his work is more than “mere” craftsmanship, though, and bought as many of his books as I could find, something which I have only done with writers whose work I regard as a “cut above” the rest (in accord with my admittedly eclectic tastes) :-D .

  3. Tim Dymond

    There was an article in the New York Times magazine on Vance recently:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/magazine/19Vance-t.html?_r=1

    I found it via this post and discussion thread on Crooked Timber, which makes the point that Vance has a ‘sociological imagination’. He is particularly concerned with status – which is reflected in the lines patrickg quotes.

    http://crookedtimber.org/2009/07/17/vance-in-the-nyt/

  4. patrickg

    Great links, Tim. I actually had a truckload in the original piece, but the CMS ate them up. Some of the highlights below:

    Great fan pages on Vance: here

    and The Foreverness Project, a Vancian explosion of info, “http://www.integralarchive.org/”>here.

    I can’t do more links than two or I’ll get spaminated, but I’ll come back later and add some of the others.

    David, I think with Vance it very much depends on what you start with, where. I would also say that fans of Hard SF, or hard anything really, will come away from his books deeply disappointed.

    My favourite description is from the first link above: “My own belief is that Vance can best be conceived as a tailor of prose, to whom plots are the tailor’s dummies on which to array the wonderfully cut and remarkably colored garments that are his real business. The dummies must be sturdy and shaped well enough to properly hold and show off those garments, but fashioning such dummies is not what his craft is all about.”

  5. Tim Stretton

    Patrick, nice to see this positive and balanced appreciation of Vance’s work.

    I think he’s perhaps more ground-breaking than you give him credit for (Lyonesse, although in many ways his best and most accessible work, is his attempt at a Big Commercial Trilogy and not fully representative of his oeuvre). The Dying Earth, although it owes something to Clark Ashton Smith, invented an entire sub-genre, 9and underwote Dungeons and Dragons with its magic system). The Cugel books, with their oddly compelling anti-hero, would also have seemed more innovative at the time than they do now.

    I’d also argue that the prose is better than you give it credit for, in that those hardcore Vance fans you mention (of whom I am one!) relish that above any other aspect of his work.

    Another aspect of Vance’s achievement which I think is understated is his emotional range. Few other writers in the genre–or out of it–could pull off the frothy Wodehousian comedy of Space Opera alongside the melancholy lyricism of Emphyrio.

    As you, say, though, Vance is not a writer for those who prefer their SF hard!

  6. Chookie

    Patrickg! You mentioned David Eddings and Anne McCaffrey in this post? Surely the most obvious difference between them and Vance is that one is able to read Vance past adolescence?

  7. Mark

    If he has a sociological imagination, I should definitely be reading him!

  8. Roger Jones

    I find Vance one of the most intriguing of SF&F writers because of his longevity and the sheer breadth of genres across which he has written. For this reason, his influence stretches to a wide range of authors.

    He was around in the Golden Age of SF, and I find that most of the writers from then (well, they’re pretty much dead now) weren’t that relevant beyond the 70s.

    His writing can be very mannered and obscure, but he often (with his characters)takes a 90 degree turn from where you thought things might go next. Hence the point towards the eclectic list of champions hinted at by Patrickg. His depictions of politics and society in alien society are always more well drawn than the technology. Edmund Cooper and a number of other obscure writers from the 60s and 70s used to do similar, but their books can no longer be found in public libraries. More’s the pity.

    And even as an older writer he always seemed to remain contemporary. I have thought the same about Jack Williamson at times and Pohl to a degree, whereas many of his contemporaries never made it past modernism (nor did JWH – political snark).

    Lyonesse was fun. I’ve kept those for my sons to read and would read them again, though I’ve sworn not to touch any Arthurian Fantasy with a bargepole (it’s like stirring alphabet soup). But for an interesting read, get into his science fiction. If you don’t like the book you’ve chosen put it away and pick another one. He offers that much variety.

  9. patrickg

    Glad to see I’m not the only one who likes Vance, I’ve mentioned him to so many people only to get blank stares!

    Correct me if I’m wrong, Tim, but aren’t the Dying Earth books and the Cugel books one and the same? I see your Ashton Smith reference, I also think Dying Earth in particular has strong echoes of William Hope Hodgson’s The Night Land (itself a work much admired by Asthon Smith).

    I guess when I say he’s not groundbreaking (compared to some far inferior writers, as alluded to by Chookie), I would argue most of his books were neither the first of their kind, (Dying Earth excepted, kind of, but that’s like 6 out of 70!), nor the template that set the standard tomorrow. His vision is such a singular one it seems other writers (and sadly readers) were reluctant to take up the reins.

    Don’t get me wrong, though, Tim. I do enjoy his prose a lot; competent isn’t an adjective I throw around lightly for fiction writers. By way of comparison, I would call someone like Raymond Chandler or Philip K Dick competent, it’s a compliment!

    I agree wholeheartedly with you, Roger, though I think there’s still a few writers from that era putting out very good quality work. Le Guin leaps to mind, and for shockingly contemporary you can’t go past Alfred Bester in my book (at least, his first two….

    I hear you about Arthurian fantasy. I think in some ways the better high fantasy writers of today (like Daniel Abraham dance with the themes (though not necessarily the symbols) better than those writing in the genre itself. I think T.H White is all there is to know about Arthurian fantasy, and all you need to know!

  10. patrickg

    I should point out to anyone else reading that Tim is not only a novelist himself, but he’s actually written a post on his excellent blog about Jack Vance.

  11. Tim Stretton

    Patrick, thanks very much for your kind link to my blog.

    You’re right that the two Cugel books are in the same series as The Dying Earth, but very different in tone. Cugel shows Vance’s black humour at its darkest, while The Dying Earth, probably more influential, has all the shimmering lushness of a writer who’s just discovered how talented he really is. Vance soon brings that tendency towards pyrotechnics under stern control, and his later work benefits from an economy at far variance from his popular reputation for the baroque.

    I agree with you that Vance remains a minority taste, when many less talented writers enjoy greater sales and popularity. There are high entry barriers to reading Vance: the sophisticated vocabulary and formal dialogue deter many (and Vance doesn’t always help himself with his sometimes cavalier attitude to plotting); but for those whose pleasures lie in that direction he’s hard to beat.

  12. Roger Jones

    Patrick, I reckon that Le Guin and Bester are the next decade along from Vance – I’m not going to claim to be soo old, but I read every short story that I could get my hands on from the 30s to the 60s by the time I was a teenager in the mid 70s. Vance was already on my radar then. BTW le Guin and Bester also, but I remember Vance as writing earlier.

    I reckon as a writer, he has always looked out at the mainstream genre and thought, “Well, if they’re zigging, I’m going to zag.”

    Tim S, yes, his books are mainly entertainments, but what pleasures they are.

  13. Crass

    Nice to see that I’m not the only person who appreciates Jack Vance. My personal favourites are “Ports of Call” and “Night Lamp”, which is wonderfully creepy. It’s the overall adult fairytale feel of his work and the witty, intricate dialogue that really provides a point of difference. I find most of the high fantasy s/f genre a bit plodding – it takes itself way too seriously.