An open thread, where at your weekend leisure, you can discuss anything you like.
Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas
Larvatus Prodeo was an Australian group blog which discussed politics, sociology, culture, life, religion and science from a left of centre perspective. more»
First! Knew I’d get there one day.
Sorry it was late. I had it set to go, but it didn’t appear for some unknown reason – must have been a WordPress glitch…
Not to worry, Mark. It was fun being first anyway.
On the old SL, I remarked I’d just finished watching series 1 of Upstairs Downstairs. Some of its in b/w. Most of it is very good, though two episodes almost reach the standard of B&B. Going to get the whole series.
To Quote Darryl Mason of The Orstrahyun
This link he provides is well worth following as it touches on issues discussed here about why there is such a preponderance of right wing commentary on The Insiders and the work of Chris Uhlmann.
The Aunty staffer who has blurred the distinction between reporting the news and his opinion more than anyone else on the ABC, imho, this year. And good on Jonathan Holmes, who does not get a mention in the article, for picking Chris up for just one case of the bleeding obvious, albeit a written effort. An article that somehow ended up published at News LTD that was quite similar to one published on Aunty, online.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/loose-lips-no-longer-sink-ships-at-the-new-more-opinionated-abc/story-e6frg996-1225807506606
Youtube videos of my confrontation with Andrew Fraser over privatisation
As <a href=mentioned on Hohn Quiggin’s web site, there was an exchange between myself and Treasurer Andrew Fraser on Sunday 20 November. Whilst I made mistakes and allowed Andrew Fraser to get away with what I believed to be dishonest debating ploys that I should have anticipated, the recorded exchange remains the most comprehensive public debate of which I am aware so far. Here it is.
One response on another forum “Spinning Like a top” was:
Actually, the Brisbane Inner West Chamber of Commerce is not quite the club of mega-wealthy that that poster imagined it to be. They seem to be mostly smaller to medium businesses and do not have a huge amount of funds. As one example, they were only able to hire a modest venue. They could have organised the debate better, but it seems they acted out of good intentions.
Nevertheless, apart from that, of course, I agree with her point.
Those who share that anger should sign the e-petition</aa I mentioned earlier which calls for the resignation of the Queensland Government and new elections.
I also commend, for NSW residents, a petition calling for a referendum in NSW that would establish the right of the NSW public to force incompetent and despotic and unpopular governments such as the current Kenneally Labor Government to the polls.
The article in support of the referendum has flaws, for example:
What rubbish! In fact, it is past fire sales that have brought NSW to where it is now.
Nevertheless, the referendum is well worth supporting.
If we don’t have the right to get rid of such unpopular and monumentally incompetent Governments as those now ruling in NSW and Queensland, then our country is effectively no better than one of those infamous corrupt Third World tin-pot dictatorships.
—
James Sinnamon
Brisbane Independent for Truth, Democracy,
the Environment and Economic Justice
Australian Federal elections, 2010
A bit of fun, (at least I think it is.)
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/word-word-the-nerd-is-the-word-20091211-knxu.html
Thanks Joe2 @ 4.
I wondered how Rupe “You’ll all pay for my on-line news” would conduct the next round of his Get Mark Scott & the ABC for going ahead with the virtual multimedia “newspaper” instead of towing my line war. I guess Loose lips no longer sink ships at the new, more opinionated ABC is the first punch (pun intended), and these paras an indication of how NewsLtd intends to wage this war.
I’d never have read the charter as This implies it should not seek to duplicate them Indeed, the ABC has, as long as I remember (ie,c1946), broadcast news, interviews & commentary/in-depth analysis: initially on radio: since the B&W AV era, TV Current Affairs programmes, inc “4 Corners” and its post-news time slot. I see The Drum as moving these services into Internet/ social networking media era. Essentially, there’s no difference between the last 7 or more decades radio/TV scripts & transcripts, and The Drum’s printed (& illustrated) articles – as I’m sure Rupe will discover if he tries to challenge Mark Scott’s initiatives in court.
How sour are the grapes at TheOz & NewsLtd’s HQs, eh
PS: Hope I have tags correct (I’ve triple checked, even removed some punctuation). The mauve box is missing some paras & has everything after “Guess” in bold.
And Jonathan Holmes punches back for the ABC: You say opinion, I say analysis
Ah yes, Culture Wars under Howie; Journalistic Wars under Ruddster! All good fun & jolly good [blogging] company! Onya, Jonathan!
Just got myself a stockpot. Recipes of any kind would be appreciated. Much thanks in anticipation.
Chuck some of your favoured veges, some cubed meat and whatever herbs and spices take your fancy, into the stock pot, go away, come back later.
Seriously.
Works for me.
Usually.
I like to seal (brown) meat first & onions first. And throw in any left-over grog, or the brandy & sherry/ port dregs.
To Fine – Just got back from Bernie Osbourne, the dog chiropractor, as suggested by you. Can’t see any immediate change, but he got a lot of stiffness out of her back end which was additional to the main problem. Will wait and see how she looks tomorrow.
She was completely horrified by the procedure, as expected
Paul, the main thing to remember about slow cookers is that if you’re doing a stew, you need about half as much liquid as you’d usually use, as the slow cooker doesn’t allow it to evaporate off.
By forgetting this from time to time, I’ve produced some really, really wet chili con carne.
Ute Woman uses those indian sauces in the slow cooker with cheaper cuts of meat and lots of spuds and onions. The sauces can taste a bit same-same if used in a saucepan but in a slow cooker they improve immensely.
Yer can generally get quite a bit of food this way, some for freezing for lunches later in the week. Cleaning the damn slow cooker is of course my job and it’s no fun.
Helen
Good to hear your companion is better.
Hannah’s arthritis is much better, she’s cavorting like a pup, in fact we have just finished a 20 min session of ball retrieval.
She is scared of our vet who has known her from before she was born and thinks she is the second best dog in the world [silly woman, clearly she's the best] cos the vet puts things into various bits of her body that are most inappropriate as far as hannah is concerned.
The vet also has a resident waiting room supervisor, a siamese cat, who disdainfully ignores all animals, and who thoroughly confuses hannah, being the only cat hannah has met, as far as we know.
Last time we were at the vet a woman came out of the vet’s room and said “I can’t bear to watch that”,so I wondered what was going on. Just a check up.
Critters. They really get to you.
Paul, something that’s pretty good to do with a slow cooker is get a bit of meat you’d roast (whole chicken, bolar roast beef, half leg of lamg, etc, whatever will fit), chuck it in the cooker surrounded with as much veg as will fit (potatoes, turnips, carrots, onions and, of course garlic and any herbs you fancy) and tip in a small carton of stock (or water and a stock cube). Turn it on, and come back 8 hours later.
Whew, withdrawal symptons then on Pollbludger someone suggested HotSpotShield and I have LP again!
Thanks for the recipes, LP-ers. They all sound delicious.
DI (nr)@ 13,
Am discovering that. Put in as much water as I usually did in a normal pot. Think I’m going to have to take some of the water out.I seem to have twice as much as I thought I would. Didn’t want to burn the thing first time I used it. Mind you it never used to evaporate away in the saucepan either and in that I’d simmer it for about four hours.I’m too paranoid about fire to go away for 8 hours and forget it though.
DeeCee must try that with the left over grog. Thinking of getting myself a bottle of port for Xmas.
Ute Man. Ah, the cleaning. Usually I’d get Home-care to do it, but I can’t have dirty pots hanging around in the sink for two weeks. They’re due on Monday, and I won’t have eaten it all by then. And they won’t be coming back till after Xmas.
Thanks to you all. Have some wonderful dinners coming up.
Jovial, wtf is HotSpotShield?
The glossies and car sections of the fishwraps are replete with car lists: best, best ever, best 20, best 10, car of the year, yada, yada. It got me thinking about the best car ever made, in my experience, at least.
This car stands out, daylight second. People who owned them became life-long devotees, and referred to themselves as the marque+ istes. Can’t imagine the same being true for Ford – Fordistes? Holdenistas? Lexusites? Mercedesists? Nah nah nah.
The vehicle was relatively inexpensive. Its body, stylish for the time – the 60s – (designed by the Italian style house of Pininfarina) was narrow yet tall. I could drive it with my top hat on yet I could fit it into spaces in traffic only a motorcycle could go.
It handled amazingly well, it had absolutely pin-sharp steering and would stay with the sports cars of the time through any bends. Yet it had the most supple suspension giving you a most delightfully comfortable ride. How did they manage that? While normally the two are mutually exclusive, this car managed both a soft ride and first-class cornering ability, albeit it did lean in corners, alarming the unwashed. It defied the laws of physics.
The (sedan variant) car accommodated four adults comfortably with leg room front and rear for six footers. The feat was accomplished in having everyone sit rather upright so no fore and aft space was wasted.
The car had, arguably, the most comfortable seats ever fitted to a car. They were huge sponge rubber armchairs with support going all the way up the thigh to the knees. You could do a 20 hour drive and step out fresh and relaxed. With the front seats laid down, the cabin became a queen sized bed, the steering wheel being up out of the way because of the high seating position.
The vehicle had a 1.6 litre petrol engine that pushed the car to a genuine 100 mph thanks to its very high top gear which was an overdrive and because the car was very light. Yet it was amazingly economical, particularly on a long drive. The gear change was on the column and followed a weird pattern, not the usual H, until you drove it a few times and then it seemed absolutely logical and ingenious, you simply pushed it up or down with the index finger, with the thumb still hooked around the steering wheel.
This was a fabulous car in which to do long distances – Sydney to Cooktown was no problem. Because of its long suspension travel and high ground clearance it would go into 4WD country even though it was a two-wheel rear drive. The car won the toughest road-race rally in the world, the African Safari three or four times. It was the most durable of cars, so it was the world’s most popular car to use as a taxi – it would clock up a couple of million ks, easy. The engine had wet cylinder liners which allowed for fast and easy overhaul without having to throw away the engine. Brilliant.
It was full of incredible surprises – the jack fitted under the front or rear bumper so you didn’t have to grovel on the ground, the hubcap was attached by a single nut to the wheel. the car came with a crank handle so if you had a flat battery you could start it without a starter motor.
It was made as a sedan – I had three of them – a utility and table top truck, panel van, station wagon, convertible (c abriolet) and two-door coupe. The sedan had a sunroof option, also.
I drove a restored one the other day. It is still a brilliant car. Amazing. What a triumph of human ingenuity. And it reminded me that most cars are still rubbish.
Are you going to tell us what car it is Sir HC?
Sounds a bit like a Peugeot 504 to me, but it didn’t have one wheel nut as I recall.
Volkswagen Type III, Sir Henry?
Peugeot 404? Sexy sunroof on that one..
Yes, it’s the 404?
19 David Irving
HotSpotShield is an anonymiser or type of proxy. Of great help when a site you want to go to is suffering DNS problems (DNS–serious internet stuff, like LP was suffering for most of yesterday and today) but fixed now.
Did the walk against warming thing in Sydney today. Typical Sydney festive atmosphere type walk not ‘march’ with drummers which was a lively change. Minimum, and I mean veery light, polise presence unlike the APEC thing when Shrub was in town. A pleasant albeit ineffective excursion.
Thanks, Hannah’s Dad. Still same level of gimpiness as before, but we’ll see if anything changes in the next couple of days. And presumably if there was discomfort in the back end which she wasn’t showing, even if nothing visibly changes she should feel better anyway. (She’s happy and active.)
After Xmas / Hols, we’ll get her X rayed to see if anything shows up.
Of cars I know narthing but my vote is with Volkwagen.
That car, Sir Hank, is the Citroen Déesse
I recall going on a long country ride in a Déesse. I was sure that at some stage we’d leave the road and wrap ourselves around a tree. That car, despite huge provocation stuck like Tarzan’s Grip to the road.
An amazing car.
Sir Henry, a best girlfriend of mine lived with a total Pug nut for about 20 years and they both drove series of 404′s. The Pug Club newsletter amongst the papers on the dining room table.
I had a 504 for a decade in Melbourne courtesy of the ex’s parents who traded up and we inherited his mother’s immaculate v. low klm’s 504 which she’d used to drive up to the shops. (Thankyou Joan.)
The front seats were far superior to the crappy lounge we had at that time, and we’d often sit under the car-port coming home from the shops on Sat. morning and read the papers in the car. We only got out to have a cuppa. Best car seats I’ve ever had, not that that is saying much, considering all the other agricultural cars I’ve owned.
Used to take the 504 to a Peugeot mechanic in arrghh, can’t remember…. Auburn village possibly? Just went for a quick google walk and it’s looks much flatter and not very green etc. I remember it being much steeper and much more secluded & lush than it looks in google. Must have been gagging for a decent gully after a few years in Melb. and was just inventing them.
Yes Adrian and Jo, it is the immortal 404. The 504 Peugeot (I owned two) was a backward step, in my view – a slightly more ponderous car. It gained weight, so that even with a 2-litre motor it was slower than the 404. The 504 was even more durable than the 404, if that is possible but it just lost that quirky simplicity and charm. And it didn’t ride as beautifully.
Oh Katz, the DS21, what a wonderful thing. But it wasn’t a car, it was a work of art. Alas it was far too complex and underpowered. It was hard to work on, with the mass of plumbing inside the engine bay, fark, doing a clutch on them required full knowledege of the kabbala. They also had a brake in the shape of a rubber button on the floor the size of a 50 cent piece. Weird, exotic beauty.
Compared to the Goddess (Deesse) 404 was an incredibly simple car. You could repair it with a knife and fork and it was amazingly forgiving. I put a hole in the radiator on the Developmental Road in North Queensland a hundred miles from Birdsville and drove it without water to Longreach finally arriving with the engine on three cylinders but it soldiered on. The head had cracked at the valve seat. I took the head off and mended it with a couple of tubes of Araldite pushing the goo into the crack with a matchstick. After allowing it to cure for a day i put the head back on and the car didn’t miss a beat for the next two years until I sold it and it probably ran for another 10 after that.
I had a type three squareback Liamista – it was aripper. Sleep in the back, but didnt cost any more to run than a small car. Before that I had a Morris 1100 – now that was style, low- rent mod chic.
Its a shame every car is now the same boring shape: I give them the collective name “Ford Tedios”.
These are the kind of people who bombarded Liberal MP’s with emails in the lead up to the vote on the ETS/beheading of Turnbull:
“The Holy War on Climate Change”
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-holy-war-on-climate-change/
Any reason for unavailability of LP over last few days?
Sorry Sir Hank. I missed the reference to rear-wheel drive in your paean to the 404. The Citroen was, famously, Traction Avant.
Too many years ago now a great friend of mine and I drove a 504 from Melbourne to the Daintree and back, taking back roads, including some of those nightmarish “developmental roads”.
All that bouncing caused the spring regulating the carb butterfly valve to break. We were driving on full choke 200kms from anywhere and quickly running out of petrol. In the middle of nowhere we stopped and assessed the damage. My friend said we needed a piece of bailing wire to tie the butterfly valve back. In that wilderness it was akin to demanding manna. I looked around and then down. Under my foot was a 6″ length of bailing wire.
I picked it up and said, “Like this?”
Perfect! We tied the valve back and resumed our trip. When eventually my friend sold is 504 to a university student, that piece of bailing wire was still doing the trick.
The 504 was rare and weird enough up there to cause local heads to turn. At that very moment in history, the 504 was the car of choice of Hezbollah. They were often filmed carrying wild-eyed men waving AK-47s. It stood to reason that any car tough enough for Hezbollah would take anything that Qld could throw at it in its stride.
What is the state of the Balyando Developmental Road nowadays?
#33 Jacques, behind the ETS debate is the population control debate. I reckon that is why churches want people like Abbott.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ea8097dc-e52d-11de-9a25-00144feab49a.html
@bmh,
There was a snafu with renewing the domain, the details are tedious.
Thanks, Jovial. I worked out it must have had something to do with LP’s weird behaviour, and actually got of my metaphorical lazy arse and Googled it, only to find there wasn’t a Linux version
The DS was a work of art alright, but I remember as a child travelling in a particularly mountainous part of France and the pneumatic system decided to break down, effectively disabling the brakes and suspension. Because the thing was so bloody complex, your average small town French mechanic had no idea how to fix the thing so as I recall we had to travel at 15kph to the nearest city.
Of course this experience did nothing to dim my father’s love for the DS, just added to its ‘character’.
On my way to the Walk Against Warming I heard that the NSW Sheffield Shield team had been travelling pretty well in the game against the Bulls. Steve Smith raised his century @ a strike rate of 100 but perhaps more impressively, scored 98 runs with 19 minutes remaining in the session. One more delivery and he’d have joined the fairly thin ranks of players who have hit a century in a session at FC or above. Sadly for him, his captain declared … and NSW didn’t even get first innings points and may lose outright as they are now 3-48 in reply … oh dear …
Back on more serious matters it was a huge gathering in Sydney at Walk Against Warming. I got to Martin Place and there were the obligatory filth merchants there parading, if you can believe it, under the banner of “Climate Justice”. These people are shameless. They can and will say anything to protect the filth merchant way of life.
The PA at Martin Place was dreadful and I reclalled The Life of Brian‘s famous line Blessed are the Cheesemakers to the chap beside me. He was a little younger than me, so perhaps that’s why he didn’t get it. Hmmm …
We set off in happy spirits south along Elizabeth St accomanied by everyone and their dog — and that was literally true because someone had brought their border collie. I got to talk to an older fellow who had been in the old AMWSU who said he’d given up voting ALP in favour of the Greens since the Bob Carr days, and was scandalised at rthe current state of the ALP. Nice fellow.
Up at the entrance to the Botanical Gardens it was picnic weather under the fig trees, there were long queues for fancy pies and other snacks. The usual suspects were about selling papers and taking down signatures for 350.org and no more coalmines. Primary schoolkids made the dais and did the “this is our future” pitch, including in song. A good time was had by all.
On the way home I picked up a ride in a green battery assisted electric trike pedalled by an attractive French chap — fabulous as I got to practice my French. On a day like this, it seemed the thing to do.
I hear this morning that apparently the Catholic Church is on the verge of recognising Mary MacKillop’s second miracle, in which someone in 1962 prayed to her and got remission from cancer. I couldn’t helop but wonder how George Pell would feel about this, given his demand for robust science to inform policy on climate change.
Given that at the time this “miracle” happened, catholic priests everywhere were doing the nasty with school aged children secually, physicaly and emotionally, while their bishops covered it up, I’d have been more impressed if someone’s prayer to Ms MacKillop had secured transparency and accountability. Now that would have been a real miracle.
You’re going to have to fact-check Katz. There isn’t a “Balyando Developmental Road”. Never was.
Perhaps you mean the Gregrory Developmental Road? Known by any variation of “the Charters Towers to Clermont Road”. I’ve rung on stations in that region. When I last drove it in 1998 it was mostly bitumen & not hard to handle at all, though if there was rain it would stop those who can’t drive.
All you fellers who drove for a lark along a “developmental road” & found that some piece of European junk could barely make it, please keep in mind Two things:
1. People live on those roads, & drive them EVERY journey of their lives. There is no romance in having those experiences just to go shopping.
2. Those Developmental Roads aren’t nightmarish, they are a fantastic improvement on what was there beforehand.
Some supposedly highly regarded brands of European & Japanese cars have earned little to no respect from those who’ve seen how said machines fell to bits on such roads. Always a quirk of mine to see urban materialistic types recoil at my yokelness at not realising that (say) Mercedes Benz is a “prestige brand”, I just pity their lack of knowledge.
Hi Helen, glad to hear Maggie is feeling a bit better re arthirits. I hope you find the ultimate source of hoer gimpiness. so frustrating for you both.
I’ve been to too many parties this week and I’m so over Christmas cheers. Too much food, too much alcohol and next week promises the same.
THanks for the tip Fine, the guy was awesome. No arthritis. Still a mystery. Will continue the saga..
SATP, the French cars (Pugs and Renaults) are built to take a variety of conditions, including dirt roads and other irregular surfaces. And as pointed out above they used to be really easy to fix which is a bonus if you’re far from a service station. It’s only the Italian and German cars which are built for bitumen only.
Breaker, breaker good buddy! Steve at the Pub is good at making assumptions. They are nearly always wrong: about people he is slagging off at LP and about his own practical knowledge versus the real-world knowledge of us, the latte-sipping ” (inner-)urban materialistic elite”.
European rubbish? What, all European cars? As someone who drove a variety of vehicle makes over Queensland and NT back roads throughout the 70s and 80s (strictly on business rather than for a lark) I can speak with some authority borne of experience – Australian cars were the rubbish, the European cars I have driven and owned – Peugeots (404s and 504s) – were vastly superior in every respect, especially reliability, and average speeds. Point to point the Pugs were a day quicker than equivalent Fisho Bend or Broadmeadows product.
Back roads such as the developmental roads, the Savannah Way and so on, were then compacted red dirt that were smoothed out by resident grader drivers. In between the gradings, the roads developed washboard corrugations.
On corrugated dirt roads the Holdens’ and Falcons’ live/solid rear axles would set up axle tramp, a harmonic set of oscillations that would have you off into the scenery in no time, as the drive wheels spent more time up than in contact with the dirt that unless you kept under 30 mph you were gone. This played havoc with trying to get a decent average speed. Furthermore, an unladen Holden ute (nothing in the back) was a death trap – it was prone to tramp, swap ends and then roll.
Additionally, the Falcon’s hydraulic valve lifters were notoriously prone to dust failure. All those roads in the Dry would have fine dust that would penetrate through the tiniest holes and that is what happened in the Falcon six; dust would block the oil gallery holes and you’d lose working cylinders. On a long trip big end bearings would pack up due to the unbalance stress.
Falcons and Valiants also had ridiculously low geared steering, so to make a quick opposite lock correction as the back came around after it lost adhesion as you hit a patch of dust, water or a washboard surface, you had to wind about five turns of lock first one way, then another. By comparison, a Peugeot, with independent rear suspension wouldn’t get axle tramp in the first place, and if the back did come around, it was just a flick of the wheel at 60 or 70 mph, result a slight sideways drift that washed off a bit of speed.
The reason why Australian cars were such crude crap was because the car industry was protected from overseas competition, just like beer. And just like beer, the punters never knew they were missing out on decent product. They simply accepted the best-in-the-world hype that is still, amazingly enough, being retailed by types like SATP.
Australian beer, and especially XXXX, was and is a loathsome sweetish swill only made to seem to taste OK by comparison with the Americans and their Schlitz, Bud and Miller. But having been protected from imports, even from interstate (!) Australian beer drinkers didn’t know what a decent drop tasted like. When the imports started coming in from Holland, Denmark, Czech-lands, Germany and Belgium, suddenly people realised they’d been conned all those years. And – surprise surprise – Australian brewers started to lift their game and come up with half-drinkable sub-brands.
Same with motor cars. The Japs came in and started to put the wood on Australian-made vehicles: especially in reliability. Surprise no. 2 – our domestic cars either went out of business (Valiant) or they improved but all the while squealing for handouts and protection.
“Some supposedly highly regarded brands of European & Japanese cars have earned little to no respect from those who’ve seen how said machines fell to bits on such roads” – yeah, right. Count the number of Toyotas compared to Holdens and Falcons in the outback. Or check out the ratio of Holdens/Falcons to Camrys on Darwin taxi ranks. And one last thing: name the 4WDs designed and made in Ostrelia.
Sir Henry inscribed:
“While normally the two are mutually exclusive, this car managed both a soft ride and first-class cornering ability, albeit it did lean in corners, alarming the unwashed. It defied the laws of physics.”
That, sir, simply will not do. Not on this thread, Sir Henry. The Laws of Physics must be obeyed. We speak here of the Court of Nature, assembled in His Infinite Wisdom by the Almighty.
It was only for a few minutes on 11th September 2001 AD in a far off land, that those Laws were suspended briefly. For corroboration, simply seek the advice of Sir Croftonly Daggett: Supplier of Puzzlement to the Logical. He will be loquacious in his extemporaneous embellishments of a threadbare tale. Sadly, you may prefer to spend the time watching paint lose its moisture.
Gregory eh … Gosh, thanks for the info SATP. I drove that road some years before 1998. Most of it wasn’t yet bitumenised.
Glad to read that the yokels out there in woop woop are getting real roads (and phones!).
I guess they can thank the taxpayers of Melbourne etc., for those and other amenities.
Do they?
Sir Isaac, you are deluding yourself, your physics is but an approximation. In our world of quantisation, wave-particle duality, uncertainty principle, and quantum entanglement, we can drive a Mack truck through your silly old Laws of Physics with impunity my good man.
Always thought the ‘Fairtrade’ concept was a crock, and this article confirms it. From the guardian no less. I have always gone out of my way to *not* buy these products and will continue to do so.
Winschuttle is at it again.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/rabbit-proof-fence-grossly-inaccurate-keith-windschuttle/story-e6frf7l6-1225809985321
Paul Burns, nothing new there, that movie was a crock-of when it was made, and still is. Entertaining perhaps. Any teacher who tries to show that to my kids will be having to justify it to me. My kids go to school to, you know, learn useful stuff.
Katz: I typo’ed, it is 1988 since I last drove the Charters Towers – Clermont road (though not much differnce I suppose)
Sir Isaac: I must concur with Sir Henry, (even though your point was something else) the Peugot – to generalise ie. not get into the relative merits of each number model – would corner as if it was on rails. Plush the interior certainly wasn’t, it reinforced the meaning of the word “Spartan”.
Sir Henry: On the contrary it is YOU who makes the innaccurate assumptions, the main one being that I am the person who has “retailed the hype that Australian cars are the best in the world”. Never in my born days, either on the net or IRL have words to anything but the opposite ever passed my lips (or fingertips).
“What all European cars?” No Sir Henry, the careful reader will observe that I prefaced that statement with the word “some”. Thou continues to make innaccurate assumptions.
Helen: Why did you omit Citroen from your list? There were more Citroen Goddesses seen in the bush than Renaults & Peugots put together & doubled.
If you really feel that “it is only the Italian & German cars that are built for bitumen only” you will expand the list to include English after a conversation with someone who had the misfortune to drive one (ditto for Swedish)
“Glad to read that the yokels out there in woop woop..”
What’s a “yokel”?
Also, what does “woop woop” mean?
Oh, oh, it looks like Windy has burrowed under the Windschuttle-Proof Fence and is bothering the sheep again.
Sigh. He is nothing if not persistent.
WA Aboriginal administrators removed children for a variety of reasons, including to remove them from moral danger.
The point is that one of those motives was assimilation of Aborigines into the broader population — “breeding out” biological aboriginality. A. O. Neville was explicit about this aim.
This may not have been the primary motive for the particular children depicted in “RPF”. But the fact is that these children were seamlessly processed into a system guided by genocidal principles. Windschuttle is playing his usual game of pettifoggery over this issue.
The story of these three children is so captivating because they fought back in a dramatic way. So few of their contemporaries ever went home. The story of victims doing little to fight against their condition isn’t dramatically captivating.
The movie never purported to be a documentary. It is a fictionalised drama “based on facts”. We been watching movies like that since W. D. Griffiths filmed “Birth of a Nation”. Some are closer to the literal truth than others. I’d back in RPF over BOAN, despite the approbation of the latter by that dour old Presbyterian, President Woodrow Wilson.
Welcome to Woop Woop.
Re Rabbit Proof fence. The Australian also has an article ( sorry can’t get link to work).
I was struck by this comment:
When our family visited Alice Springs we visited to the old telegraph station and were shown around by a very interesting part aboriginal guide. The station had been converted to a live in ‘education center’ for part aboriginals in the late 20s and he had been one of them. Our guide was in no doubt at all that being removed from his tribe saved his life, and everyone else who had been removed and lived at the mission.
So stick that in your pipe and smoke it, PB and Katz!
And, Peter@54, many who were moved to the mission, back then, no doubt believe Jesus died for their sins.
1. Please point out when the Northern Territory was part of Western Australia. Each jurisdiction followed different principles or at least variants of similar principles. Neville had nothing to do with the administration of Aborigines in the Northern Territory.
2. The aim of Neville’s policy was never to kill or even to harm individuals. Within his own framework of reference he was trying to be humane. No doubt many individuals were saved from a grisly fate by Neville’s interventions. One consequence for the guide who you spoke to was that the cultural dissolution of his “tribe” was accelerated by the policies of Neville and other like-minded persons.
Some these removed persons achieved happiness. For many others it was an emotional torment.
Another `end of an era` marker yesterday with the passing of Alma Morton 1915-’09
A well known `lefty` from Melbourne Alma would be remembered more recently from her involvement in community radio at 3CR where she had a program that lasted the best part of a quarter of a century. Alma was my mother’s sister.
A yokel, j-p-z, would be somebody from a rural area far from the the city who came to the city and walked around the city street craning his neck looking at the very tall buildings going “Gawd, ain’t the buildings tall?”
Woop-woop is generically applied any small bush town way out the back of beyond.
There is a little bit about her in an Age article from 2002, Zorronsky. Your aunty was a remarkable women.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/06/11/1022982844249.html
Thanks Joe, I really need to learn to link! And type and spell and…something about old dogs tricks and stuff.
Joe @56
Nuh, their tribe totally rejected them because they were part white. Get a clue.
“Nuh, their tribe totally rejected them because they were part white. Get a clue.”
From your tone, Peter@62, I doubt if I were to give you another one you would be open to getting it, either. You have merely found anecdotal evidence to support opinions you already, firmly, held.
“the Americans and their Schlitz, Bud and Miller”
thankfully recent developments in US craftbrewing mean that they now brew some of the best beers in the world and what’s more it is still cheap. Cheap if you travel to the US to buy it of course. In good old Oz (a nation of proud beer drinkers) it’s very expensive but then so is the local craft beer. No-ones been able to supply a rational explanation for this. Excise or labour costs they say. But we’re talking tripel or upwards. In fact some people seem to be quite keen to pay upwards of $9.00 a pint, I’d say they don’t travel much. Hence one must makes ones own all grain beer if one wants to drink a truly interesting beverage.
Er, Peter, any ideas on how come there were so many “half castes”? Could it be that some were the result of the satisfaction of the base needs of the whites? Or is that to much for your delicate sensibilities to handle? I’d say it was you who needs to have a look at himself.
Zorronsky@61. Just cut and paste the http address on a separate line. That easy for any old dog.
Just noticed my credit union has started charging me a $5 per month admin fee. The only way I can get our of it is to have a $100 000 balance, insurance or house mortgage out with them. You need a minimum of three of these ‘high roller’ accounts to qualify apparently. Sixty dollars a year to manage my miserable easy access account with never more than a few hundred dollars pisses me off. Anyone know a credit union keen to acquire new blood and determined not to GROW itself into an immitative blood sucking monster on the backs of low maintenance souls?
PatrickB, I reckon it would actually be fairly expensive to make decent beer, even in industrial quantities. Good malt costs more that second-rate malt, and Saaz and Hallertauer are way more expensive than Pride of Ringwood when you use them as bittering hops.
Sir Henry,
With respect, four wheel drives where made in Brisbane for years in the form of CKD kits from Jeep – often with Australian derived bits (Ford engines, local seats etc). One of the tragedies of the Button car plan was the Brisbane operation not being able to build the small XJ Cherokee here, two years before the Japanese 4WD boom in smaller vehicles that XJ successfully competed with in the US. The car was a massive success when finally launched here in 1994 – durable, clever enough re-use of existing parts, relatively economical. Not unlike a big, tall 504 in it’s clever re-use of older bits of scabbed design from other parts of the company.
While everything you said about the 504 was probably true, it was always second best when it came to parts support – try gettng a water pump or (say) a carb valve butterfly spring in Longreach (or Camden) for a 504, even back then. The thing might have been immaculately designed and beautifully executed, dripping from Battista Pinninfarina’s pen as David from Michelangelos inspired caressing of rock, but that does you no bloody good if you can’t get a tyre to fit it because the frogs decided a 400mm tyre was a good idea. Failing that, trying to get something as simple as a fuel filter could leave you stranded within sight of the SCG.
Sir Henry
By the “laws of physics” I meant the laws of your era, not those I puzzled about and wrote about in my time. I see there has been much work in Opticks, and Sound is better known than it was by my own poor efforts (I was wrong by 30 per centum on the sound speed).
Dr Einstein was a very clever man.
And Electrickal and Magnetickal sciences were not developed when Edmond and I were working on my Principia.
I’m sure your French Carriage was a mighty beast and handsome, but I think no Mechanical Contrivance can defy the laws of the universe. But perhaps I may be mistaken.
Lord Keynes who was a courteous custodian of my old papers awhile, assure me that “in the long run we are all dead”; so I am; so is he. But quite charming when we converse.
I bid you good evening, Sir Henry.
(By the by, are you perchance related to Lady Henrietta Casingbroke? I heard that she migrated.)
DI(ni)
I’m use only good malted grains (Thomas Fawcett, Weyermann), good hops (a lot of US lately e.g. Simcoe, Chinook, Cascade) and Wyeast liquid yeasts. Average is say 6kg grain, 90gms hops, plus yeast would be about 16.8 + 13 + 14 = $43. That gives me about 27L of beer, some of which has won medals i.e. it’s not bad. I was recently moaning that a carton of Chimay Red would cost me about $160. That’s 24 * .330L = 7.92L of good Belgium beer. I was in Belgium at the beginning of the year. 330ml of Chimay Red = 0.97 Euro, thus 24 * .97 = nearly 24, at the current FX rate that’s about $39. My conclusion is; good craftbrewed beer is cheap but that’s not the reason I do it, but it’s certainly become an incentive. Good imported beer is something bought in 6 packs. PS, one place here (Perth) had a carton of Sierra Nevada PA for $139. I was fortunate enough to travel to the US in September, it was under $12 a 6 pack.
Sorry, DI(nr).
Sorry again that should be 330ml of Chimay Red, .330ml@0.97 is very expensive. The person responsible has been counseled.
Sierra Nevada == bastards do not remind me. It is divine, especially in like minded company with proper mexican food and the chill air of the desert. That sounded horribly pretentious for a ute man but some experiences are not to be denied.
I’ve never tried full grain brews, Patrickb, preferring to leave that as a retirement project. However, I’m told my beer is drinkable (and I like it).
I still reckon it’d be noticeably more expensive to make good beer than shitty beer, particularly as a small-run craft brewery is going to be a lot more labour-intensive than, say, Carlton United. (And since the large breweries are run by accountants and coin-clippers, they’re not likely to be focusing on quality.) Plus for the imported stuff, you’ve got the additional cost of moving large quantities of slightly contaminated water around.
Sierra Nevada FTW!
I popped down to the corner store on Castro for something to go with the Lady Friend’s vine leaf dolma and lamb chop braise, picked some up on a whim (in the region of $10 a six pack) and fuck it was awesome.
Yeah sure, brother in law, you can have one.
…
Oh look they’re all gone.
Windschuttle was wrong. Again.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/film-makers-dispatch-historian-to-the-fence-over-distorted-history/story-e6frg8pf-1225810385666
That’s an amazing letter PB!
This should be kept and shown every time lying denialists of the Right repeat their hysterical claim that the Stolen Generation were not a product of genocidal policies. Windschuttle could never honestly defend his integrity. Now it is impossible for anyone of intelligence and integrity to do so.
Recall your tomes, Windy and have them pulped for garden mulch.
Why hasn’t this letter been publicised earlier? Given the prominence of the case, its obscurity is quite extraordinary.
History wars over. We win.
Where are Windschuttle’s apologists now?
Windy goes into damage control:
Self-serving and feeble. A. O. Neville was a prominent WA public servant. He was vociferous in espousing genocidal policies. The program, as conceived by Neville, was perfectly adequately funded. In fact, it operated for more than half a century. All that was required was the removal of half-castes from their tribal setting and residence elsewhere, in private homes, in privately-run institutions and in government-run institutions. Tens of thousands of part-Aborigines were subject to this policy.
Its genius was its cheapness.
FDB,
The 2 weeks I spent in NYC recently left my brother’s flat full of craft-brewed empties. I found it impossible to visit the supermarket and not come back with 4 6 packs of brilliant beers for under $40. I almost had a breakdown when I got back to Perth.
DI(nr), I’m about 15 years off retirement and have been AG-ing for about 6 years. I found that I could make a better brew that way plus there’s all the gear and tinkering that goes on. Takes about 6-8 hours to get a brew into the fermenter, this of course involves some drinking in the latter stages.
Beer causes an equal and opposite reaction. It is a fine invention.
@81
One would have thought you would have been partial to cider Sir Isaac, given the apple incident and all.
Katz @ 79, it had another advantage as well: it ensured a large supply of cheap domestic servants.
Win, win!
Well yes, cider’s fine, porter purrs, sherry is serene.
By the way, that apple history is somewhat of a family myth.
In my isolation of intellect, I found betimes the need to translate into simpler words, my understanding of Nature’s workings; the which I had meditated on several long Years before arriving at my scribbles on Gravitation; which the young stranger Edmond Halley had to winkle out of me, for I fear’d he may carry them back to that Rogue Rob’t Hooke in London Town who could publish and claim my works as His own.
But cider & scrumpy be very fine drinks, I will aver and agree with you Mr Patrick.
Phillip Noyce responds to Windschuttle.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/film/director-historian-argue-over-fence/2009/12/14/1260639169624.html
I reckon Noyce has nailed it as to W’s motives.
“Green light for internet filter plans…”
Father Conroy gets to nanny the net.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/15/2772467.htm?section=australia
Geez, Windy is copping it from every angle.
I love the sang froid of the Board of Studies spokesperson who points out that RPF is taught as a piece of fiction, not in connection with any history syllabus.
PB, I’m not sure that Noyce does quite nail Windy’s motives. Noyce implied that he was stirring up this issue to sell books. I’d argue that Windy is driven more by his self-appointed role of scourge of teh leftist falsifiers of teh historical record. (If he sells a few books along the way, so much the better).
Katz @ 87,
I was thinking more along the lines of the observation that W was ‘dishonest.’ This seems to be a rather time-honoured motive of people who aren’t historians. I’ve no doubt he believes his own bull-shit, but then again, so does Gavin Menzies.
He might be out to flaggelate those he sees as falsifiers of Aboriginal history, I admit. So why isn’t he whipping himself?
Correct PB. There is no denying Windy’s dishonesty.
The question is, what does he hope to achieve from his dishonesty?
I don’t believe that Windy is driven by monetary greed. History books don’t make millionaires.
He may be driven by a desire to be in the limelight, like a small boy who waves his willie about in public, and/or he may be driven by a desire to be seen as a hero of the Culture Wars.
(Being a Culture Wars hero WHILE waving his willie about in public may indeed be Windy’s wet dream.)
True, Katz,
But, with a bit of luck the Australian culture/history wars are over. The present reception to W seems to indicate that. In Howard’s time this would have gone on for weeks if not months and W would have been mataphorically crowned with laurel. Now, he’s just being immediately dismissed with well-deserved contempt.
IMHO Windschuttle likes to see himself as a cultural warrior. The Quadrant hoax did highlight that yes, he falls for nutwing claptrap and yes he IS lazy and glib with his research. Thus, I view him as a hypocrite and a serial grandstanding pest. History will not be kind to such unscrupulous attention seeking gits.
Sorry, had to get that of my chest….. cough… he is a bit like phlegm that needs to be cleared out of the air passages and discarded in to the appropriate sputum receptacle.
I haven’t watched Denton in years, but I caught his interview with Rosalie Kunoth-Monks on Monday night. It really struck me that the only way to tell the story of Indigenous people in this country, and do them any justice, is to do it one person at a time – and let them speak of it themselves.
Because……?
Windy’s b/s has also been called into question by Daisy’s descendants who are far more credible than he is.
Very quietly a couple of days ago, the US political classes took a dogged step towards major international conflict. The House of Representatives, suspending the normal rules of the House, passed with a huge majority H.R.2194 – Iran Refined Petroleum Sanctions Act of 2009.
This legislation would ban from doing business in the United States any foreign entity that sells refined petroleum to Iran, enhances Iran’s ability to import refined petroleum such as financing, brokering, underwriting, or providing ships. Sanctions would also apply to any entity that provides goods or services that enhance Iran’s ability to maintain or expand its domestic production of refined petroleum.
Of most importance is the fact that various Chinese entities are now heavily involved in developing Iran’s petroleum industry.
If the embargo were applied to these Chinese entities, US and Chinese commercial and geopolitical interests will be in collision. Such legislation also makes it more likely that the Chinese will refuse to co-operate with the US in extending UN sponsored sanctions against Iran. Therefore any US action against Iran is more likely to be unilateral.
Given that these Chinese companies involved in Iran are state-owned enterprises and given that most major Chinese companies, especially its banks are also state-owned enterprises, it is uncertain how this embargo will apply to Chinese enterprises. For example, will it be deemed illegal for the Federal Reserve to sell US government paper to state-owned Chinese banks? If so, then world credit markets would possibly cease to operate.
Allegedly, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu asked for this legislation and the US House has obliged.
Oddly, this legislation is similar to the bans imposed on Japan leading up to Pearl Harbor. In that case, of course, Japan had no domestic supplies of petroleum, whereas Iran floats on an ocean of oil.
Katz @ 94.
I’m apalled. Of course, if nothing comes of it, it will be a forgettable footnote of history. However, if something does come of it – eg war with Iran/China, it will be seen as significant as the US embargo on Japan before the Pacific War.
I used to think the world was going mad. Now I think it simply doesn’t care. We are all suffering from frith – the state of mind rabbits go into when they see the headlights of an oncoming car at night.
Yes, PB.
This legislation would erect a maze of tripwires whose individual effects would be quite unpredictable but whose aggregate effect is to increase the danger of serious conflict.
If, as I expect, this legislation made China less amenable to US bellicosity towards Iran via Security Council resolutions, then perhaps contrary to the wishes of Netanyahu, this may make the US less likely to go to war.
My reasoning is that Obama is less likely than Bush to favour a unilateralist path. And at present there are no UNSC resolutions against Iran that can be tricked up like those that were used by Bush and Blair to concoct a casus belli against Iraq way back in 2003.
But there are so many other roads opened to war by this legislation…
The stuff on Iran simply can’t pass.
If you look at the targets for Iranian crude oil exports these are in order (rough percentages added)
Japan 21.2%
China 16.7%
India 15.2%
South Korea 10.4%
Italy 8%
Misc. 7%
France 5.8%
South Africa 5.2%
Right now, putting the competition for this lot into the oil market would be devastating to prices. During the 1973 embargo prices quadrupled on a 5% cut in supply. Iran has 10% of current supply. I’m doubting China or Japan or India will be taking steps like this. India is also negotiating a major deal on natural gas. I don’t see them putting that at risk either.
Not only that but big companies like Total, BP and Reliance are actively involved in helping Iran meet its refining needs. I don’t see the US acting against them.
Side bar … much of Italy’s local stationary power generation is from oil-fired generators (they got rid of most coal fired power in 2005 and don’t do nuclear, though they do import some from a spot in Slovenia, 60 miles across the border), so any volatility in oil prices is going the hurt them big time.
Separate topic: The Second Sydney Airport
I heard Albanese talking during the week about pulling Badgery’s Creek. I’ve long thought that the best option for a second Sydney airport would be a floating airport perhaps placed just off the actual airport in Botany Bay someplace, or alternatively just off the Sydney Heads.
The advantages of a floating airport — really a VLFS (Very large floating structure) include:
No land needed — so lower cost
Less complex EIS required
Can be extended to meet surge in demand so less overbuild
Potential to be towed someplace else
Can be isolated from traffic and thus more easily secured. Easier emergency management.
Approaches by jets could be from over the ocean rather than over residential areas, so improvements in relative amenity for those under flight paths.
Placing it in or proximate to Sydney Harbour saves you the cost of extra infrastructure such as rail links. You could use ferries to shuttle passengers to Circular Quay.
I can’t understand why they aren’t looking at this. Essentially, you could build it like a giant floating oil rig. I’ve written to Albanese a couple of times pitching it.