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20 responses to “Climate change velocity”

  1. Jan

    Of course the answer would be 42. Surely this is proof that Mr.Rabbit’s plans to make the kiddies study the ‘bibles’ of our civilization is spot on : as long as they start with Douglas Adams!

  2. Brian

    Indeed, Jane. But seriously 42 may well be conservative. As I mentioned, the study seems to be based on a conservative emissions growth scenario under BAU. Another factor is that it is almost certainly based on a the IPPC notion of climate sensitivity of 3C for a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere. This takes into account only short-term feedbacks. Real climate sensitivity is almost certainly will above 3C.

    So the answer could well be 0.84, but it is dead set unlikely to be less than 0.42.

  3. BilB

    It is important to look also at the full range of each biome shift. If the data is to be believed then, whereas it is saying the average move is, say, .71 , the range of the move is from .1 to above 12 per year. So the invasive front for biome 12 is moving at 120 kilometres per decade. So where desertification might set itself up on the front in a dry seasonal cycle and partially recede in the wetter seasonal cycle it will reestablish more strongly in the next seasonal cycle with irreversible change establishing some time later.

  4. wilful

    In Australia’s montane environment, we very quickly run out of altitude. Everything retreats up the mountain, then bugger me it’s got nowhere to go but into the big extinct species habitat in the sky.

    Snow gums are rooted by about 2050. Alpine Ash by 2070.

  5. Antechinus

    wilful, do you have any data to back up those predictions? I actually study that stuff (responses of Australian alpine plants to climate change) and as far as I know, nobody in the field is predicting extinction of snow gums or alpine ash on anything like such a short timescale.

    Tree species (as opposed to short-lived plants) are often relatively resilient to environmental change, for a start. The alpine plant species that have been investigated have quite high genetic diversity (a rough predictor of genetic ‘health’) and potentially good adaptive potential. Adaptation CAN happen quite fast in nature, by the way; I’m not sure whether you were talking about true evolutionary adaptation in your last paragraph or not, Brian, but there’s no reason to think it won’t happen at all.

    That’s not to say that species won’t go extinct; some or many ultimately won’t be able to adapt or migrate fast enough; but we’re seeing that each plant species responds quite differently to seasonal changes and experimental warming. Also, species interactions can change things completely. It’s not as simple as modelling a species’ current climatic range and saying it’s going to go extinct as soon as that particular climate ‘envelope’ disappears off the mountain.

  6. wilful

    antechinus, yes I do. Not published yet, but in press. Maybe I could get you a copy, at least of the summary.

    emial me at [myusername] AT gmail and I’ll see if I can get it for you.

    I’m not a botanist but I know a bit about trees. i disagree with your assessment for eucalyptus – they have notoriously narrow sensitivity to temperature, one way or another. A large number of species would not be able to regenerate in anything like their current ranges. Different reasons for different species. Lack of frost chill, IIRC, for delegatensis.

    Obliqua has very high genetic plasticity it seems, and may be amongst the most robust.

  7. Brian

    BilB @ 3, two comments.

    First, my understanding is that they were looking at temperature, not a whole climate as such. So the precipitation level might not move in step for a whole range of reasons.

    Secondly. i didn’t go into the methodology in great detail, but I think they were looking at quite small units. In that particular map they averaged what was going on within the whole biome. There’s a variety of stuff going on within the biome, because the topography, for one, is not uniform. There was another map that looked a bit like a porridge, which you can actually see here.

    Actually that version, which I just googled up, is clearer than the one I had when I did the post. Probably would have used it if I’d had it then.

  8. Brian

    wilful @ 6, really? Antechinus sounds like a scientist who is working on the issue directly.

    Antechinus, when I used the word “adaptation” I used it in the sense commonly used in climate discourse of adapting broadly to whatever climate change serves up. For example building sea walls against rising sea levels.

    In the Matthew Cawood link Prof Barry Brook, whose substantive field is botany I understand, talks of plants adapting to survive, which some obviously will. I guess adaptive success of that kind would be hard to estimate and I’m sure not every species is being studied.

    Thanks for your contribution.

  9. John D

    I suspect that species that have evolved on a particular mountain to suit a particular elevation have been going extinct at a great rate over the years as climate goes through it’s normal fluctuations. In most of these cases thety simply never got into the fossil record.
    The real worry is the extent to which key species are vulnerable – the species that occupy key points in a lot of interdependence chains.

  10. Brian

    John D, my knowledge of botany and biology is minimal, but I suspect there is an issue with key species.

    Also I understand that there is less diversity on islands than on mainlands. By large-scale modification of the landscape and the establishment of contained nature reserves we have tended to replicate these conditions on the mainland as well.

  11. wilful

    Brian, as I have discovered, there can be a bit of a gulf between alpine (well australia doens’t have true alpine, but what we call alpine) and montane forest ecology knowledge. My interests are closer to the tall trees, antechinus’ are perhaps above the tree line. ANd these two knowledge bodies dont relate that well. Although I’m not a scientist, I manage a bit of research that’s relevant, and the research taht I’m closely familiar with is telling us (subject to all the usual disclaimers, particularly since it hasn’t been formally published) that a lot of montane tree species are well and truly rooted well before the end of this century, with middle scenario climate change.

  12. dj

    but remember…according to one commenter here, all we need is fresh water!

  13. Antechinus

    Thanks for the info, wilful, I’ll be in touch.

    I suppose I’d been interpreting your initial comment to mean that the species would be extinct by 2050/2070 – obviously you didn’t mean that all the currently-standing trees will suddenly die! Yes, in species with temperature-sensitive regeneration and germination (and with little adaptive potential for these traits) we will have a major problem. I’d suggest the effects will still be more long-term though, because even after 2070 there will be some (few) cool seasons and some (small) refuge spots where the microclimate is suitable for these species to regenerate/reproduce. Although increased fire frequency will make things even more difficult for the fire-sensitive species, of course.

    Brian – yes, it’s tricky to work out sometimes if people are talking about genetic adaptation or human ‘adaptation’ to climate change. Human ‘adaptation’ could actually be vital in cases like the Oz alpine/montane zone. Cold-treating seeds in some areas, artificial seed dispersal, mixing populations for maximum genetic diversity – all could be useful tactics if we really want to give current ecological communities the best chance.

  14. John D

    I guess we will do the things that are necessary to save the iconic species. I am less confident that we will save other species that are less iconic, possibly unattractive but more important to the ecology as a whole.

  15. Brian

    Speaking of adaptation, I work outside most days, which is where I’m going right now. I’m meant to be grateful that we are in a bit of a cooler spell for a few days, until you realise that “cooler” means 3C above average! It’s not a case of adapt or die, but at my age it sometimes feels like it.

    BTW, when they were having a cool snap in North America recently with temps 8C below average, temps were +7C in Alaska.

  16. wilful

    Landscape level treatments at the scale required for Australia simply aren’t feasible. We wont have enough resources to keep what we’ve got where it is. We can reseed areas, but if they wont germinate what’s the point.

    Antechinus, yes of course this will be a stochastic process, and fire will be a key disturbance driver. We’ll retain pockets, and some species will be better able to adapt than others, but mostly it seems that it’ll be black wattle and messmate throughout the Victorian Alps (based on what we know so far, which is far too little).

  17. BilB

    I saw reports of 34 deg C days in the captial of Greenland at the same time.

  18. KeITHy

    40 KILOMETRES PER CENTURY, hmmmmmmmmmmn! What is normal?!!?

  19. Brian

    KeITHy, I think we are going to hear more about this as time goes by.

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