This thread provides an opportunity for commenters to discuss the South Australian election, share links, make predictions, and so forth!
Please note LP’s statement on electoral comment.
Update: New thread – please direct comments here.
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I predct at some stage someone will comment about the South Australian election, but am uncertain as to whether anyone will care.
For novelty/ leftist trainspotting value:
The CPA (or is it the “Communist Alliance” now) is planning to run Bob Briton in Lee. I know Bob, and he’s a fine upstanding member of the working class vanguard – even if he’s in the wrong outfit.
http://www.vote1communist.org.au/
I need to vote, and I don’t particularly. I don’t see how either major party can be “good” for SA, and think that despite the rorts, rumoured bribes and corruption, the Liberals wouldn’t in any way be better than Labor.
Even worse, I’m not keen on a future where Family First get any more power, and I think they might. Some of the legislation they’ve thought up is embarrassingly stupid – if you’re not fixated on moralising over everything and everyone.
Is it too much to hope for Labor getting re-elected but Rann and especially Atkinson lose their seats in the process?
I wouldn’t trust the Libs to open a tin of baked beans. We’re in Mitch Williams’ electorate and I think I’d even rather vote for Family First than him. Patrick Secker federally. Says it all really. Most of the droogs around here would vote liberal even if an axe murderer was the candidate. One is untrustworthy and the other a complete oaf!
The problem is this Rann Labor government are pretty much a Liberal government by default. A lot are predicting a close result but I can’t see the Libs getting in. You’ve already got a Labor & Liberal party in government so what would be the point?
I live in Atkinson’s electorate and although there’s no chance of him losing his seat I’ll either be voting for G4C (purely because they’re anti-Atkinson) or the Greens.
I couldn’t imagine any intelligent, fair minded person voting for this appalling government again. It’s the same right across the nation where wall to wall Labor governments have economically ruined almost every state and territory. I suppose South Australia is not as bad as QLD or NSW but it’s certainly not far behind. I think it’s time for the workers to evaluate a political party on a broad spectrum of issues instead of being so tunnel visioned on unions and the workplace, speaking of which, Labor has not done such a great job on this anyway. They always claim to be batting for the worker but when you actually look at the policies, the worker just may be better off under a Liberal government in many instances. It’s difficult to change the conditioned mind though when this mentality has been passed down through generations. My dad voted Labor, and his dad voted Labor and my great great grandfather voted Labor so I’ll vote Labor too because I’m too stupid to think for myself.
Today’s exciting installment in the Liberal bot saga!
Mark @ 8, LOL!
Yes, Miranda the SA economy is going pretty well and I’m almost certain “we” have the lowest unemployment in the country too. The Liberal party are now the workers friend? I think I’ve heard it all but but…you’re all gonna lose your jobs!!1!
Mark, I reckon they use a modified version of the post-modernist essay generator.
Perhaps so, David! The Liberals’ secret weapon may have been a comfy chair in John Howard’s time, but under the up to date Abbott, it’s talking points by algorithm!
Not [organ dischord] the Comfy Chair! I reckon fear and surprise’d be more effective.
“Is it too much to hope for Labor getting re-elected but Rann and especially Atkinson lose their seats in the process?”
Sadly, it is too much to hope for. Atkinson has one of the safest seats in the State. On a 2PP basis, he got 76% of the vote last time!
If Atkinson were in any danger this time, the Libs would be well on their way to one of the greatest landslide victories in Australian history. And that’s rather unlikely, of course!
Paulus,
Atkinson does need to go. time has passed him bye.
Paulus @ 13 – I guess that explains why he feels he is able to do and say anything he wants. Sad so many people will vote for a specific party no matter how bad the actual rep is.
“Paulus @ 13 – I guess that explains why he feels he is able to do and say anything he wants. Sad so many people will vote for a specific party no matter how bad the actual rep is.”
Actually, even if you loathe Atkinson’s ideas, his large margin is not due only to the demographics of his seat, but also the large personal vote he commands because of his activism as a local member. If one were to estimate Atkinson’s 2pp just on the basis of the fundamentals of his seat, it would be considerably lower than the share of the vote he actually receives. Locally he is more popular than the party he represents.
Atkinson is quite admirable in some respects. When some idiot in his electorate was flying a Nazi flag over his house, Atkinson cycled over and calmly explained what was wrong with that, and persuaded the guy to take it down.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/swastika-taken-down-after-a-gs-visit/story-e6frg6nf-1111117812407
But I just wish he didn’t have such narrow-minded conservatism when it comes to censorship. Everyone other State Attorney-General understands the point of allowing R18 computer games; why doesn’t Atkinson get it?
The arrogant public attitude of both Atkinson and Rann is typical of long term governments. To Paulus’s list I’d also add the anti-bikie legislation and the fascination Labor MPs have with suing people. In general I think the government is quite reasonable, just a few things that I think would be fixed by a change of leadership.
You’d need to persuade Kevin bloody Foley to move on as well, Chris.
Yes, Chris is right to ponder that so many people are habituated rather than conviction voters (on both sides of the party divide, I suspect he meant to add but forgot?), but as someone else said, if there is no alternative, what do you do?
People put Rann in for the same reason is they put Labor in elsewhere and also federally.
Only to find them following Tory prescriptions they inherited, down to the letter, universally.
They are just as reactionary, and in SA the ferocity of their assault on public parks, heritage and amenities, following on from Olson (lib) times, has ramped up exponentially and has had to be seen to be believed.
If it moves, shoot it, if it’s stationary chop or smash it- that’s Foley’s populist dictum during an era where people are nervous of their jobs and spoon fed, in a one newspaper city, on the incessant mantras of “growth” and “development”.
paul @ 20, the ALP’s moved a long way from the Dunstan era.
I wonder if Mike Rann has improved his handshake. It used to be one of those wet fish ones.
Yes, DI (no relation).
Almost universally, backwards amd downwards.
DI, it seems this is a desperately (deliberately?) dull election. To me the one interesting question does seem to be what’s happening with Maywald.
Yeah, Maywald’s electorate could be really strange.
There certainly isn’t the same buzz as at the last Federal election. Possibly because, no matter who wins (and it’ll probably be Labor), nothing will change.
paul @ 20 – yes it certainly applies to all sides of politics, and not just Labor and Liberal voters either. Whenever I’ve lived in a safe seat I’ve had a policy of voting against the incumbent regardless of who they are. Get much better service living in a marginal electorate.
The great thing about the SA Libs is that Nick Minchin hates the idea of Liberal State Governments and has spent the last 35 years or so snuffing out any chance of such an eventuality. 1992 was an aberration for a whole lot of reasons – Labor was really sick of being in government and did all they could to relinquish it, and John Howard was as far from the Prime Ministership as he’d ever been – so Minchin let it through, but having done so he set about poisoning it from the inside. Rann owes Minchin more than he dares admit.
Like NSW and Qld at the last election, Labor will win but this is the last for a while. Small majorities are either a spur or a curse and I think it will be the latter for SA Labor.
Interesting article. “ALP man urges end to Rann cronyism”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/state-politics/alp-man-urges-end-to-rann-cronyism/story-e6frgczx-1225834509794
“They (the Rann government) are just in bed with business people . . . the working class and their children will get a better deal from a Liberal conservative government.”
It’s been obvious for quite awhile but I can’t agree with the last bit.
In return for the St Clair Reserve, Mr Grant’s council will get a new park on a disused, government-owned factory site next door. “The whole thing is just a disgrace,” Mr Grant said. “I think they should be ashamed of themselves.”
Spot on.
Yes, people are so ungrateful, Jacques! Imagine getting upset at being given the opportunity to establish a brand new park on top of a toxic industrial site, especially as the one they already have is probably looking a bit shopworn, being so old and established.
OTOH, even the worst ALP govt is bound to be better than any Liberal govt.
“OTOH, even the worst ALP govt is bound to be better than any Liberal govt.”
probably. on the other hand, if Atkinson remains AG after a Labor win, I think it’s a close call.
I’d add Michael Wright to the list of Labor members that I wouldn’t mind seeing out of the parliament.
I went to a debate on water at the Hawke Centre a few weeks ago. The Libs had a panel of 3, 2 of whom were bumbling inarticulate twits [Mitch Williams was one of 'em, I can't remember the other blokes name]. The one who seemed like she might have something worthwhile to say was given less than a minute to say it, since the other two hogged the time they had. Jay Weatherall dispensed them all with ease, he’s an impressive politician, who’s only downfall seems to be the occasional slip-up in appearing to be overly dismissive/arrogant – he reminds me of Mike Rann in the days where he seemed like more of a humanist. At the debate, both Mark Parnell and David Winderlich [sp?] gave reasonable and sensible contributions…Rob Brokenshire was the Family First rep…he just irritates me, so I zoned out when he was speaking.
In my own industry, Labor has initiated some useful changes particularly the consolidation of various boards into one NRM board – they are much more outcomes driven than had previously been the case. They still waste money on propping up ineffecient NGOs, but that’s a minor quibble.
I think their transport policy is heading in the right direction, the St Clair issue not withstanding. I don’t know what the park that will be lost looks like, the remediation of an industrial site as a park is not in itself poor policy, but the way it was handled made the govt seem arrogant, and their unwillingness to show humilty EVER, is probably their greatest problem with voters.
Things that bug me about Labor include the handling of the Murray/Coorong. The desal plant. The pipeline to the vineyards at Langhorne Creek – I’m amazed that one didn’t draw more attention – talk about picking winners…in an industry that is suffering an oversupply – you have one wine region that is moving to reclaimed water – facing competition from another region that is drawing on the Murray via a taxpayer funded pipeline – while further up the Murray their is a wine region that is being encouraged to pull their vines up, because of oversupply. I don’t understand it.
The hospital site. I think they should be building the new hospital on the Glenside site, and put the film corp on the railway site along with a contemporary art gallery to extend the idea of North Terrace being a cultural zone. Although, if they included a really cool/interesting/innovative Museum of Medicine on the new hospital campus, I think that could work.
I hate the idea of replicating the expressway, it’s totally unnecessary..I travel both ways at different times of the day, and there is very little congestion south of Darlington. If they want to suck up to southerners they should build the multi-sports complex at the Mitsubishi site where there is already a rail line, which should be electrified and extended to Flinders Uni/Medical Centre.
The other issue I have a problem with is the industries that receive the most ‘stimulus’ from State Labor are mining and defense.. My friends an I call them the ‘hard on’ industries…seriously, all we need is a ‘boys own adventure’ theme park and we could change the rego plates from “Festival State” to “Blokesville”. ugh. And yes, there is nothing to stop women moving into industries that may traditionally be male dominated, but it would be nice to have some industries fostered that don’t include either digging things up or blowing things up.
There seems to be little to differentiate Labor from the Libs on social policy. I’d even argue that Labor is more socially conservative, which disappoints me greatly.
The last few contributors are spot on.
With St Clair site we have a problem with real estate values: namely reconciling the anomaly of a land swap of St Clair Parks ($14-16 mill) for the degraded Actil site ($4 million).
Apparently the amount of money is not so much the issue but the potential revealed in land swaps for avoiding transperancy required with traditional processes, tendering, etc.
This explains some of the disquiet concerning also the Thorndon Park transfers (and Goodwood Orphange? something rings a bell, here)?
I see elsewhere that Mark Bahnisch has picked up on Quiggin’s “Agnotology” (manufacture of ignorance) thread elsewhere.
It’s certainly true the Dunning Kruger effect, which states,
“people make erroneous choices and…unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to recognise it”,
an idea which seems loosely to derive from the Peter Principle notion,
thrives in SA and reflects the truly parlous state of media and public information in this Cuckoos Nest, a closed system where the inmates took over the asylum, seemingly to loot it rather than run it constructively.
The hospital site. I think they should be building the new hospital on the Glenside site, and put the film corp on the railway site along with a contemporary art gallery to extend the idea of North Terrace being a cultural zone.
Hmmm…. except that they would need to do some serious work on traffic flows along Glen Osmond Rd. I live up along that way, and I find it stressful to drive along it, no matter what the time of day.
I’ll try to get around to put up a post about the SA election over the weekend, ‘though it’s hard to get excited about it, because as other commentators have said, it’s all just a bit, well, boring.
paul @ 30 – from the photos some of the trees at the St Clair site look very mature. It will take literally decades for the other site to reach the same state.
The other issue with putting a hospital at Glenside is public transport. Either end of North Terrace is very central and very easy to get to. Put it out at Glenside and most people will have to take at least a couple of buses to get there (in to city, out of city again).
As for the southern expressway I would have thought in the long term it would be better to get rail down there rather than more roads.
Can anyone explain to me the actual point of the tram line extension down Port Road when it’s for the most part just duplicating the train line around 100m away? I’ve yet to hear an adequate justification for it other than developers developing = good.
Beautiful place, St
Clair.
Like all the other sites that seem to be part of a convergence of nasty developments, that the government wants a virtual plebiscite for
Development a la Attilla the Hun.
Later, “you voted for it”.
How are people such cretins as to destroy these places?
Can anyone explain to me the actual point of the tram line extension down Port Road when it’s for the most part just duplicating the train line around 100m away?
Public transport systems leak large numbers of passengers every time those passengers are required to change from one vehicle to another. Running the tram out to the Entertainment Centre will almost certainly increase the number of people using public transport, not just the number of people using the tram. Also the tram goes further through town, making it easier for people to get close to their destination. If people have to walk more than about 5 minutes (the actual number is somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes), they will opt for private transport instead.
Jacques
I heard somewhere that this may be to link eventually with the train corridor to the Port – change to / add light rail guage so trams can use. Cheaper than diesel and probably run more often, more passengeres, possibly quieter.
Thanks Deborah & Fascinated. btw I wasn’t being a smart arse just really didn’t understand the point of it all. Personally I still feel it’s for the most part a waste and would’ve preferred that money to be spent somewhere else.
Fair point about the traffic near Glenside, Deborah. Actually there are many areas on the south-eastern side of the city that would benefit from some traffic-flow improvements – which would be a better use of money than replicating the southern expressway. I drove up south road last night [ie: against the flow of the expressway] at peak hour and it was not busy at all…that’s the kind of traffic that would be catered for on the duplicate expressway. So with the opening of the festival and late night shopping in the city, it was still fairly empty on south road heading to town. Weirdly the Mclaren Vale traders seem to be advocating for it the most, and they actually benefit from the one way traffic to the Vale on the weekends.
Chris, the Noarlunga train line is the first one to be electrified, and is being extended to Seaford. So rail infrastructure will not be too bad in the south, there are express buses linking Noarlunga with Flinders via the expressway too, but some bus interchanges along the expressway would be a good idea for commuters in Morphett Vale – Woodcroft etc.
With the hospital site…..my uncle is from the south east and he and my aunt were recently in Adelaide for his cancer treatment for a month. They were accommodated in a hotel near the east parklands and a shuttle bus ran patients to and from the Royal Adelaide. The last time they were in Adelaide the hotel was on Greenhill road. I was thinking it would not make much difference where the hospital was placed with that in mind. I don’t think patients would or should be using regular public transport, and private vehicle parking for relatives in the city is problematic anyway. Regardless, I don’t think it would take much to have a new public transport shuttle to the hospital, and I doubt a residential development at Glenside will ease any of the traffic problems there.
I’m okay about the tram-line extension…I heard they were going to offer western suburbs commuters very low cost parking at the entertainment centre, so they could leave their cars outside the city centre and tram it from there [the tram is going to be free according to an tram employee I spoke to last week], I think that is a great idea. The main problem with the tram [and trains] at the moment is that the last one runs at 11.55PM. I doubt you could get out of a gig at the entertainment centre and get to railway station in time to catch a train home, so I’m hoping that once the trains are electrified we’ll get more frequent and later services. At the moment you can’t rely on the tram on a friday or saturday night, because it’s so popular they have to leave people at stops…this is really lousy for young people who are trying to do the right thing and not drink and drive.
Also, this is one of those minor things that is disproportionately important to me because of my rather nerdy fondness of railway stations and airport architecture…. but if there were a politician that would promise to get rid of the fugly casino banners that are strung up across the hall inside the railway station, I’d vote for him/her…that building’s interior is so beautiful, but you never get to appreciate it properly because of the gawd awful visual pollution.
Also, the announcement of an annual Festival of Arts, apparently because “it’s needed for Adelaide to REMAIN the ‘PREMIER’ arts event in Australia”. Anyone who thinks it is currently the ‘premier’ event has never been to the Melbourne or Sydney festivals….that line could only ever be used on a the citizens of a city that have become so insular they don’t know which way is up anymore….oh wait.
Whilst I share SFOI’s enthusiasm for TODS, I still can’t see why their existence must automatically be predicated on the destruction of public spaces and amenities.
If they could have their TOD and not destroy St Clair, would they bother trying?
St Clair is a case in point. Is it REALLY necessary to destroy St Clair, just for one of the precious bloody things!
And why do we need high population policies that force the development of TODS?
Why don’t the DEVELOPERS redevelop the Actil site, and do the remedial work also, if they are so eager to “develop”?
No, its more likely about a fiddle involving politicians and developers that rips off the public thru the theft of a community sponsored amenity.
New thread – please direct comments here: http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/03/19/open-south-australian-election-thread-ii/