Tony Abbott’s 7.30 Report interview has prompted some bizarre reactions – not least Barnaby Joyce’s particularly unhelpful comments. The Coalition spin appeared to be that Abbott was somehow demonstrating his authenticity and honesty by telling viewers that his word isn’t to be trusted, except when his remarks are scripted. The Liberals then tried to obscure the issue by running the twin themes of the ALP being nasty by personally attacking Abbott (as if the personal attacks on Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard aren’t vicious, and as if Abbott hadn’t dug his own grave) and spreading the meme that all politicians are liars. Obligingly, sections of the media jumped on these lines and dressed them up as reportage or analysis.
Let’s try to sort through the issues Abbott’s interview raised. For me, there are three key points:
(a) Even if one were to accept Abbott’s claim, an interview with Neil Mitchell on radio, where he made his “no new taxes” pledge a month before he pledged a Great Big New Tax, hardly constitutes heated political debate. Any Opposition Leader should be prepared to be upfront and open about their policy orientation in a formal interview. If Abbott can’t handle the pressure of such a situation, he shouldn’t been in the game;
(b) This leads to the second point – Abbott, the so-called street fighter, is a lazy and inept politician, doing none of the hard yards on policy formulation, and hoping it will always be right on the night. When confronted with this, he reverts to some sort of adolescent “aw shucks, I’m just a charming and crazy boy, please forgive me” posture. This is consistent with his overall persona – constant confession and oversharing, and an inability to understand that his own failings don’t earn him an endless series of absolutions. Abbott, it could be argued, is incapable of taking responsibility for his own words and actions;
(c) Abbott is wrong that everyday interactions do or should involve stretching the truth or thoughtless hyperbole.
“Most of us know when we’re talking to people or when we’re listening to people, I think we know when we can put absolute weight on what’s being said and when it’s just the give and take of standard conversation.”
Well no Tony, most of us conduct ourselves in life from a starting point of fairly straightforward sincerity. Our day-to-day conversations are in fact built on trust and simple truth; to behave otherwise is to set life and its relationships on something shakier than a house of cards.
Unless of course you are entrusted, by an honest, hopeful, vote of the people to address the challenges of national government. Or aim to be. Then, it seems, you can lie through your teeth.
No, ‘most of us know’ that when we’re talking to normal people they’re usually telling the truth. This may be because most normal people don’t have all that much to hide.
I think there’s a real difference between Abbott’s carelessness with language and cavalier relationship to the truth and the problems Kevin Rudd has had with promises – while I’ve been highly critical of the ETS backdown, I don’t question Rudd’s genuineness in seeking to do something about climate change.
I do question his political will, his political skill, and his choice of policy responses.
But I don’t think that what we’re seeing here is some sort of generalisable phenomenon whereby all politicians tell lies. We have to take Abbott at his word on this, though the paradox of doing so has been pointed out more than once. His description of his own conduct really does go to his character and his ability as a politician.
This is not just a “gaffe” or a storm in a teacup.
NB: Previous discussion on LP here.
On (b) I recall Andrew Bolt referring to him as a kid on Insiders.
Ultimately we should trust Turnbull’s first instincts and know that Abbott’s usually speaking “bullshit”.
On (b) I recall Andrew Bolt referring to him as a kid on Insiders.
Ultimately we should trust Turnbull’s first instincts and know that Abbott’s usually speaking “bullshit”.
So, according to Tony Abbott there is no truth without spin?
If leaders of the larger parties – and by that I mean Ministers as well – were used to straight talking, Tony Abbott wouldn’t have committed that gaff.
Of course, his admission might not have been a gaff at all but an image-spinning strategy in itself, as some have commented, one that has backfired.
So, according to Tony Abbott there is no truth without spin?
If leaders of the larger parties – and by that I mean Ministers as well – were used to straight talking, Tony Abbott wouldn’t have committed that gaff.
Of course, his admission might not have been a gaff at all but an image-spinning strategy in itself, as some have commented, one that has backfired.
You were right to say he’s lazy. The other word for him is immature. His whole shtick is reminiscent of a 15 year old boy trying to be charming to some girl’s mum.
Not wanting to over-generalise, but there is a real streak of immaturity on the conservative side. Costello was a champion pouter: think of his boasts about his first meeting with Allan Greenspan (and the consequences of his blabbing); think of his reaction to JWH not “giving” him the leadership. Abbott’s behaviour speaks for itself. And look at the Tweets by Libs like Peter Dutton. His “joolia” tweet was classic schoolboy stuff, and he’s not the only one. And what about Barnaby Joyce? Is there anyone who acts more like a naughty kid than him? Okay, Wilson Tuckey.
Like I said, don’t want to over-generalise, but it is noticeable how many react in a totally juvenile way to various situations.
You were right to say he’s lazy. The other word for him is immature. His whole shtick is reminiscent of a 15 year old boy trying to be charming to some girl’s mum.
Not wanting to over-generalise, but there is a real streak of immaturity on the conservative side. Costello was a champion pouter: think of his boasts about his first meeting with Allan Greenspan (and the consequences of his blabbing); think of his reaction to JWH not “giving” him the leadership. Abbott’s behaviour speaks for itself. And look at the Tweets by Libs like Peter Dutton. His “joolia” tweet was classic schoolboy stuff, and he’s not the only one. And what about Barnaby Joyce? Is there anyone who acts more like a naughty kid than him? Okay, Wilson Tuckey.
Like I said, don’t want to over-generalise, but it is noticeable how many react in a totally juvenile way to various situations.
Did you hear Barnaby Joyce trying to provide an analogy for Abbott’s mea culpa?
Tring to get my head around this:
So when Abbott “over-extends” (gosh, with what is above, isn’t that suddenly all double entendre?) the public are like his lovers and he is telling them what they want to hear. Then again, Abbott spoke of “the heat of political combat” so really it’s more like a bit of rough trade.
Either way, it sounds like barnaby is saying that Abbott is trying to seduce and then screw the public for his own satisfaction, whereas when he is being truthful he sees the public as no more significant than checkout operators — there to service his more prosaic needs. Either way though, it’s all about him.
With friends like Barnaby, does Abbott really need the ALP to lampoon him?
Did you hear Barnaby Joyce trying to provide an analogy for Abbott’s mea culpa?
Tring to get my head around this:
So when Abbott “over-extends” (gosh, with what is above, isn’t that suddenly all double entendre?) the public are like his lovers and he is telling them what they want to hear. Then again, Abbott spoke of “the heat of political combat” so really it’s more like a bit of rough trade.
Either way, it sounds like barnaby is saying that Abbott is trying to seduce and then screw the public for his own satisfaction, whereas when he is being truthful he sees the public as no more significant than checkout operators — there to service his more prosaic needs. Either way though, it’s all about him.
With friends like Barnaby, does Abbott really need the ALP to lampoon him?
Ooops … posted the above without noting the Barnaby Joyce reference in the original post …
It pays to read the whole post first …
Ooops … posted the above without noting the Barnaby Joyce reference in the original post …
It pays to read the whole post first …
Don’t worry Fran, that proposition (fnna, fnna) by Barnaby Joyce is so head spinning that it deserves repeating.
Don’t worry Fran, that proposition (fnna, fnna) by Barnaby Joyce is so head spinning that it deserves repeating.
Now that Abbott is beginning to be reported more widely as a street fighter who lives by the old adage, “Loose lips sink ships”, the media might just start to focus on the other nutters in LP. Even honest Joe following his pathetic performance today at the Press Club, might acutally receive the heat. His habit of yelling when he thinks he is on the moral high ground is losing its effect as was demonstrated in Q&A on MOnday. Lindsay Tanner beat him hands down on everything from passion to substance. There are so many more like LT in the ALP that have not even begun to speak up.
Now that Abbott is beginning to be reported more widely as a street fighter who lives by the old adage, “Loose lips sink ships”, the media might just start to focus on the other nutters in LP. Even honest Joe following his pathetic performance today at the Press Club, might acutally receive the heat. His habit of yelling when he thinks he is on the moral high ground is losing its effect as was demonstrated in Q&A on MOnday. Lindsay Tanner beat him hands down on everything from passion to substance. There are so many more like LT in the ALP that have not even begun to speak up.
I think there are three major issues here besides the COALition/media preferred peripheral issue of Abbott admitting he tells lies.
Firstly, the lies are about policy and this is not a trivial matter.
We are being asked to consider this spokesperson for the COALition as the alternative PM of this country.
As such we can expect to know what we might be voting for. And off the cuff thought balloons do not warrant consideration.
Saying one thing one day and then something completely contradictory the next, having outbursts and sound bites that are content free and masquerading as policy on matters important to this country does not warrant us surrendering this country into the hands of a leader of a political party that cannot be trusted to deliver what it states at any one time.
Secondly this issue, of ‘making things up as they go along’ has history.
Its been the standard COALition way of governing and in opposition.
Remember the $10 billion ‘on the back of an envelope’ scheme to ‘rescue’ the Murray?
The scheme that was dreamt up late one night and only cursorily chucked at Treasury etc for a quick glance, because really, it wasn’t a serious attempt, a carefully thought out policy, it was just a vote grabbing sound bite writ slightly larger.
Like Abbott’s billion dollar tax slug for mums that got kiboshed as soon as his colleagues and the big corporations heard about. Sound bite.
There are several other examples, WMDs, NT invasion, ‘illegal’[sic] boat people over running our fair nation, when in doubt shout ‘tax cuts’.
And lastly and very importantly, they [that includes Barnaby and Hockey and the others] all do it for one very simple reason.
They can get away with it.
Giant blunders, huge fox paws, blithering nonsense can come out of the mouths of COALition so-called policy makers because they know they can get away with such, that they will not be held accountable by a appropriately critical media.
The free pass given to the COALition on the numerous blunders and ill consered policies of the COALition has been taken as a licence by pollies such as Abbott to talk, well not to put too fine a point on it …bullshit.
We deserve better.
A better opposition, a better media.
I think there are three major issues here besides the COALition/media preferred peripheral issue of Abbott admitting he tells lies.
Firstly, the lies are about policy and this is not a trivial matter.
We are being asked to consider this spokesperson for the COALition as the alternative PM of this country.
As such we can expect to know what we might be voting for. And off the cuff thought balloons do not warrant consideration.
Saying one thing one day and then something completely contradictory the next, having outbursts and sound bites that are content free and masquerading as policy on matters important to this country does not warrant us surrendering this country into the hands of a leader of a political party that cannot be trusted to deliver what it states at any one time.
Secondly this issue, of ‘making things up as they go along’ has history.
Its been the standard COALition way of governing and in opposition.
Remember the $10 billion ‘on the back of an envelope’ scheme to ‘rescue’ the Murray?
The scheme that was dreamt up late one night and only cursorily chucked at Treasury etc for a quick glance, because really, it wasn’t a serious attempt, a carefully thought out policy, it was just a vote grabbing sound bite writ slightly larger.
Like Abbott’s billion dollar tax slug for mums that got kiboshed as soon as his colleagues and the big corporations heard about. Sound bite.
There are several other examples, WMDs, NT invasion, ‘illegal’[sic] boat people over running our fair nation, when in doubt shout ‘tax cuts’.
And lastly and very importantly, they [that includes Barnaby and Hockey and the others] all do it for one very simple reason.
They can get away with it.
Giant blunders, huge fox paws, blithering nonsense can come out of the mouths of COALition so-called policy makers because they know they can get away with such, that they will not be held accountable by a appropriately critical media.
The free pass given to the COALition on the numerous blunders and ill consered policies of the COALition has been taken as a licence by pollies such as Abbott to talk, well not to put too fine a point on it …bullshit.
We deserve better.
A better opposition, a better media.
The problem we have to sort out now is was Tony lying when he said “AGW was a load of crap” OR was he lying when he claimed he was lying when he said “AGW…”.
Or is he lying when he tries to seduce rich women who are attracted by the idea of very generous maternity allowances for them OR was he lying about no new taxes.
My take on Tony is that his base strategy is to us “The great big lie about everything” to con the voters.
The problem we have to sort out now is was Tony lying when he said “AGW was a load of crap” OR was he lying when he claimed he was lying when he said “AGW…”.
Or is he lying when he tries to seduce rich women who are attracted by the idea of very generous maternity allowances for them OR was he lying about no new taxes.
My take on Tony is that his base strategy is to us “The great big lie about everything” to con the voters.
You mean this COALition? Perhaps Tony’s comments are just a case of selectivity?
You mean this COALition? Perhaps Tony’s comments are just a case of selectivity?
Abbott was a good attack dog – you give him the lines, he runs them loyally, diligently, waits for a pat on the head and then goes back to his corner until needed again. He has no leadership qualities, and his policy ideas display his absolute confusion when it comes to what he should stand for. I believe that much of the reason he left the susbtance of the budget reply to Hockey was that he simply doesn’t have a good enough grasp of what macroeconomic policy for the country should be. He has consistently demonstrated throughout his parliamentary career that he is more interested in social change to ‘restore’ 1950s moral values.
This is why he’s in parliament – to achieve a remaking of Australia in a social sense. He has no concept of what things cost or what the priority of different policies should be, hence his tendency towards enormous spending like the NT Intervention, Green Army and paying mums $10000 to stay at home.
HIs policies are thus a plaintive cry to return to the moral certainty of a bygone era.
Guy Rundle also suggested that Abbott actually has a psychological need to fail which is an interesting idea.
Abbott was a good attack dog – you give him the lines, he runs them loyally, diligently, waits for a pat on the head and then goes back to his corner until needed again. He has no leadership qualities, and his policy ideas display his absolute confusion when it comes to what he should stand for. I believe that much of the reason he left the susbtance of the budget reply to Hockey was that he simply doesn’t have a good enough grasp of what macroeconomic policy for the country should be. He has consistently demonstrated throughout his parliamentary career that he is more interested in social change to ‘restore’ 1950s moral values.
This is why he’s in parliament – to achieve a remaking of Australia in a social sense. He has no concept of what things cost or what the priority of different policies should be, hence his tendency towards enormous spending like the NT Intervention, Green Army and paying mums $10000 to stay at home.
HIs policies are thus a plaintive cry to return to the moral certainty of a bygone era.
Guy Rundle also suggested that Abbott actually has a psychological need to fail which is an interesting idea.
Let me see if I’ve got it right.
Whilst speaking off the cuff, Abbott assures us that he is not to be believed when he is speaking off the cuff.
And doing this makes him fair dinkum.
Tell me again why he hasn’t just lost the election?
Let me see if I’ve got it right.
Whilst speaking off the cuff, Abbott assures us that he is not to be believed when he is speaking off the cuff.
And doing this makes him fair dinkum.
Tell me again why he hasn’t just lost the election?
Mark’s assessment of Smuggles as lazy and inept is absolutely correct. And Tim is right about his immaturity. He’s 53, ffs, he’s been in politics for 16 years and held various senior ministerial positions in the Rodent government for 9 years, so he shouldn’t be constantly speaking in sh!t bubbles!
Can you imagine how much damage he could do if he got into the driver’s seat?
I think that instead of the liar theme, the government should exploit his loose lips tendencies and really drive home that while this sort of flaky behaviour might be OK in a 3 year-old, is it desirable in someone aspiring to the highest office in the country? In fact would you even want him managing a hot dog stall?
Mark’s assessment of Smuggles as lazy and inept is absolutely correct. And Tim is right about his immaturity. He’s 53, ffs, he’s been in politics for 16 years and held various senior ministerial positions in the Rodent government for 9 years, so he shouldn’t be constantly speaking in sh!t bubbles!
Can you imagine how much damage he could do if he got into the driver’s seat?
I think that instead of the liar theme, the government should exploit his loose lips tendencies and really drive home that while this sort of flaky behaviour might be OK in a 3 year-old, is it desirable in someone aspiring to the highest office in the country? In fact would you even want him managing a hot dog stall?
What Jane said @11.
The big takeaway from this is not so much that Abbott admits to lies but that he has poor judgement, is lazy and has surrounded himself with a particularly flaky team (partly a result of poor judgement). It’s this the ALP should be hammering him on. Hard to argue that this conservative party would be a safe pair of hands in government.
What Jane said @11.
The big takeaway from this is not so much that Abbott admits to lies but that he has poor judgement, is lazy and has surrounded himself with a particularly flaky team (partly a result of poor judgement). It’s this the ALP should be hammering him on. Hard to argue that this conservative party would be a safe pair of hands in government.
Well, apparently it’s only a gaffe when a liberal says it, surprisingly enough.
But full marks to Kerry O’Brien for managing to record 2 idiotic statements from two people who should know better by now.
The thing about politics for people like us, who will spend time on message boards and blogs commenting on politics, is that we sometimes overlook how trivial this all is. Most of this will be forgotten by the election, despite some rather cheap (and surprisingly quick) electioneering from the ALP. I love the line though, “Phoney Tony” classic.
Really only one thing mentioned is important here, Tony Abbott is a lazy on policy development, and all too often decided that the best place to try his various thought bubbles is in the news instead of from policy advisors, field experts, public servants or even his own party room colleagues to see if any of it even makes sense.
If he looses this election (and I severely hope he does) it will be on his string of thoughtless commentary on policy, not on stuff like this. And it goes the same for Kevin, his slightly agitated moments on TV won’t be his undoing, if anything it will be the poor use of his political capital.
PinkyOz
Well, apparently it’s only a gaffe when a liberal says it, surprisingly enough.
But full marks to Kerry O’Brien for managing to record 2 idiotic statements from two people who should know better by now.
The thing about politics for people like us, who will spend time on message boards and blogs commenting on politics, is that we sometimes overlook how trivial this all is. Most of this will be forgotten by the election, despite some rather cheap (and surprisingly quick) electioneering from the ALP. I love the line though, “Phoney Tony” classic.
Really only one thing mentioned is important here, Tony Abbott is a lazy on policy development, and all too often decided that the best place to try his various thought bubbles is in the news instead of from policy advisors, field experts, public servants or even his own party room colleagues to see if any of it even makes sense.
If he looses this election (and I severely hope he does) it will be on his string of thoughtless commentary on policy, not on stuff like this. And it goes the same for Kevin, his slightly agitated moments on TV won’t be his undoing, if anything it will be the poor use of his political capital.
PinkyOz
PinkyOz said:
No … if he loses it will be because too few people in marginal seats thought the government should be thrown out after one term.
PinkyOz said:
No … if he loses it will be because too few people in marginal seats thought the government should be thrown out after one term.
Absolutely. Thats the extraordinary thing about the ALPs recent poll slide, and why it must be – by definiton – their own fault.
Abbott and co are such flaky lightweights – it simply cant have been anything they’ve done.
And I’m with Turnbull – the best way to see Tones is as bone lazy bullshit artist, with a strong dash of ideologue. No policy credibility on any issue (I dont know why people isolate economic policy areas for the criticism!)
Absolutely. Thats the extraordinary thing about the ALPs recent poll slide, and why it must be – by definiton – their own fault.
Abbott and co are such flaky lightweights – it simply cant have been anything they’ve done.
And I’m with Turnbull – the best way to see Tones is as bone lazy bullshit artist, with a strong dash of ideologue. No policy credibility on any issue (I dont know why people isolate economic policy areas for the criticism!)
“Whilst speaking off the cuff, Abbott assures us that he is not to be believed when he is speaking off the cuff.”
But that means he is to be believed.
But that means he is not to be believed.
But that means he is to be believed.
Ad infinitum.
It’s the Lycra Paradox.
“Whilst speaking off the cuff, Abbott assures us that he is not to be believed when he is speaking off the cuff.”
But that means he is to be believed.
But that means he is not to be believed.
But that means he is to be believed.
Ad infinitum.
It’s the Lycra Paradox.
In fact…. (in this is probably a job for Albanese) I think its is the time to label Tones in ‘colourful’ terms – exactly as a ‘bullshit artist’. I dont think ‘Phoney Tony’ quite gets there.
Loads of pollies fib, but far fewer *have to* because they’re clueless policy vacuums.
In fact…. (in this is probably a job for Albanese) I think its is the time to label Tones in ‘colourful’ terms – exactly as a ‘bullshit artist’. I dont think ‘Phoney Tony’ quite gets there.
Loads of pollies fib, but far fewer *have to* because they’re clueless policy vacuums.
It’s a real tragedy for the Libs and potentially the country that they ditched Turnbull. It’s too late to slot him back in now as the howls from the teapartiers would destroy them.
They have to ride this all the way to the end.
Fran Barlow @ 14 -
Well … Yeah, that’s true. It is pretty unlikely that a first term government will go based on the history we have, but he isn’t exactly travelling well at the moment our Kev, a good opposition might have been able to turn it over (Beasley I nearly did it, a hair’s width in it by the end). Having an opposition that can’t really formulate an alternative strategy will of course just reaffirm that history.
PinkyOz
It’s a real tragedy for the Libs and potentially the country that they ditched Turnbull. It’s too late to slot him back in now as the howls from the teapartiers would destroy them.
They have to ride this all the way to the end.
Fran Barlow @ 14 -
Well … Yeah, that’s true. It is pretty unlikely that a first term government will go based on the history we have, but he isn’t exactly travelling well at the moment our Kev, a good opposition might have been able to turn it over (Beasley I nearly did it, a hair’s width in it by the end). Having an opposition that can’t really formulate an alternative strategy will of course just reaffirm that history.
PinkyOz
You can’t compare Abbott and Beazley. Beazley went close precisely because the people who didn’t like John Howard saw in Beazley someone that they could trust with policy.
Abbott is even less impressive than Rudd in the eyes of most who have defected. It’s hard to imagine many who voted out Howard in 2007 wanting to vote in a less experienced and more flaky and accident-prone re-run, and to fancy that these will be mainly in marginal seats.
You can’t compare Abbott and Beazley. Beazley went close precisely because the people who didn’t like John Howard saw in Beazley someone that they could trust with policy.
Abbott is even less impressive than Rudd in the eyes of most who have defected. It’s hard to imagine many who voted out Howard in 2007 wanting to vote in a less experienced and more flaky and accident-prone re-run, and to fancy that these will be mainly in marginal seats.
Fran @ 20 -
Hang on there, I’m not saying that Abbott can be compared to Beazley. What I am saying is a good opposition vs government with problems can win, with only luck and slightly skewed boundaries preventing Beazley from making it.
The Abbott lead Liberals are not a good opposition, although you could say that the Rudd lead ALP is suffering a few image problems. The situations aren’t comparable, however a more competent leader and frontbench may have proved to be more of a challenge in this situation.
PinkyOz
Fran @ 20 -
Hang on there, I’m not saying that Abbott can be compared to Beazley. What I am saying is a good opposition vs government with problems can win, with only luck and slightly skewed boundaries preventing Beazley from making it.
The Abbott lead Liberals are not a good opposition, although you could say that the Rudd lead ALP is suffering a few image problems. The situations aren’t comparable, however a more competent leader and frontbench may have proved to be more of a challenge in this situation.
PinkyOz
“Saying one thing one day and then something completely contradictory the next, having outbursts and sound bites that are content free and masquerading as policy on matters important to this country does not warrant us surrendering this country into the hands of a leader of a political party that cannot be trusted to deliver what it states at any one time.”
Makes you wonder what other world leaders would make of of their discussions with him if he became PM.
“Saying one thing one day and then something completely contradictory the next, having outbursts and sound bites that are content free and masquerading as policy on matters important to this country does not warrant us surrendering this country into the hands of a leader of a political party that cannot be trusted to deliver what it states at any one time.”
Makes you wonder what other world leaders would make of of their discussions with him if he became PM.
PinkyOZ continued:
I see where you are going with this but the counter-facyual isn’t possible. In what ways would greater competence in the Opposition be manifest, given your earlier system constraints?
If for example, they had got behind the government and passed the amended CPRS, they would have split their base. That would be the story rather than the one running now in which rudd walks away from climate change. It’s also clear that their line on debt and deficit is palpable nonsense and so, once again, they couldn’t run a more orthodox line and extract the political advantage they are getting now. They absolutely positively must act like opportunistic and shrill hysterics and pander to every gripe just to stay in the game and hold their base. That’s why, appearances notwithstanding they are in diabolical trouble. Not only will they not get a win, but these three years will have been entirely wasted. Time they could have spent doing a clean out and modernising their party will have been occupied in a futile attempt to reverse 2007 when the rest of the world has moved on.
They will split on the other side of the election and have to reinvent a new anti-Labor narrative when the ALP will have the mantle of a government that defeated the GFC here, and is now moving on to achieve the remainder of its agenda, unhindered by the Howard holdouts from 2007.
PinkyOZ continued:
I see where you are going with this but the counter-facyual isn’t possible. In what ways would greater competence in the Opposition be manifest, given your earlier system constraints?
If for example, they had got behind the government and passed the amended CPRS, they would have split their base. That would be the story rather than the one running now in which rudd walks away from climate change. It’s also clear that their line on debt and deficit is palpable nonsense and so, once again, they couldn’t run a more orthodox line and extract the political advantage they are getting now. They absolutely positively must act like opportunistic and shrill hysterics and pander to every gripe just to stay in the game and hold their base. That’s why, appearances notwithstanding they are in diabolical trouble. Not only will they not get a win, but these three years will have been entirely wasted. Time they could have spent doing a clean out and modernising their party will have been occupied in a futile attempt to reverse 2007 when the rest of the world has moved on.
They will split on the other side of the election and have to reinvent a new anti-Labor narrative when the ALP will have the mantle of a government that defeated the GFC here, and is now moving on to achieve the remainder of its agenda, unhindered by the Howard holdouts from 2007.
Abbott’s Rhodes Scholar training is finally coming to the fore. In the guise of a media interview, he has presented a cunning exposition of the Liar’s Paradox, the gnarly knot that lies at the heart of of our notions of truth and falsehood, and which has defied over 2,500 years of investigation.
Abbott is the suicide bomber of applied philosophy.
Abbott’s Rhodes Scholar training is finally coming to the fore. In the guise of a media interview, he has presented a cunning exposition of the Liar’s Paradox, the gnarly knot that lies at the heart of of our notions of truth and falsehood, and which has defied over 2,500 years of investigation.
Abbott is the suicide bomber of applied philosophy.
To understand just how bad this is for Abbott, surely you just have to imagine yourself coming out with the same crap in your job and in your life and imagine what the consequences would be.
Any employer would very quickly reconsider your employment and anybody close to you would start getting rather concerned.
Yet this was a man putting himself up as an alternative Prime Minister, on national television. Quite unbelievable.
Malcolm to lead the coalition at the next election?
To understand just how bad this is for Abbott, surely you just have to imagine yourself coming out with the same crap in your job and in your life and imagine what the consequences would be.
Any employer would very quickly reconsider your employment and anybody close to you would start getting rather concerned.
Yet this was a man putting himself up as an alternative Prime Minister, on national television. Quite unbelievable.
Malcolm to lead the coalition at the next election?
Fran Barlow @ 25 -
Well, your right there, The Libs are a shambles and while no electoral outcome can be really known before an election (bar the ones that are rigged) you would expect that the ALP will be returned.
But a good opposition may have had a better crack at it. I don’t really think that such a thing could be born of the liberals as they are, though there may be some salvagable parts (Members, policies and ideologies). So yeah, there is a good chance that a new party will have to face an ALP that ‘protected’ us agains the worst of the GFC (Er, well, maybe. I’m still not sure, though it did help retail confidence, I still say the recovery in the mining sector was more valuable), but that doesn’t make them unbeatable, and other issues will occurr, and it will change the vote.
That said, I think we are at least looking at 2-3 terms of ALP, hopefully one of those terms will be without Kevin, but we shall see.
PinkyOz
Fran Barlow @ 25 -
Well, your right there, The Libs are a shambles and while no electoral outcome can be really known before an election (bar the ones that are rigged) you would expect that the ALP will be returned.
But a good opposition may have had a better crack at it. I don’t really think that such a thing could be born of the liberals as they are, though there may be some salvagable parts (Members, policies and ideologies). So yeah, there is a good chance that a new party will have to face an ALP that ‘protected’ us agains the worst of the GFC (Er, well, maybe. I’m still not sure, though it did help retail confidence, I still say the recovery in the mining sector was more valuable), but that doesn’t make them unbeatable, and other issues will occurr, and it will change the vote.
That said, I think we are at least looking at 2-3 terms of ALP, hopefully one of those terms will be without Kevin, but we shall see.
PinkyOz
Is this a serious thread! It would be if some wanted to take the high (if narcotic induced) moral ground that pollies never stretch, bend, fold, manipulate the truth to suit the audience to achieve their point. Not to mention the nonsense that followed here, how many of these posts have left out, skipped over context to make or strengthen their point.
In the meantime
The greatest moral challenge of our time Well, could not have been that big of a moral challenge to let it sink like a stone or else maybe it was pretty important but ..well..you know…umm..
The bloke that said that was a liar, prone to not telling the gospel truth or perhaps just pollie on the make.
Is this a serious thread! It would be if some wanted to take the high (if narcotic induced) moral ground that pollies never stretch, bend, fold, manipulate the truth to suit the audience to achieve their point. Not to mention the nonsense that followed here, how many of these posts have left out, skipped over context to make or strengthen their point.
In the meantime
The greatest moral challenge of our time Well, could not have been that big of a moral challenge to let it sink like a stone or else maybe it was pretty important but ..well..you know…umm..
The bloke that said that was a liar, prone to not telling the gospel truth or perhaps just pollie on the make.
Oigal
Who was it who said “Climate change is crap” [and then repeated the same idea only a week or so ago to school children]?
And then caused a spill in the Liberal Party [aka COALition] that led to them rejecting the ETS in parliament?
And all the while cheered on by the media?
Hmmmm?
Oigal
Who was it who said “Climate change is crap” [and then repeated the same idea only a week or so ago to school children]?
And then caused a spill in the Liberal Party [aka COALition] that led to them rejecting the ETS in parliament?
And all the while cheered on by the media?
Hmmmm?
PinkyOZ said:
Personally, I doubt that Rudd will lead the ALP to the election in 2013. Nor do I think Julia will do it either though she’s a rough chance. My dark horse guess would be Greg Combet, who is well connected and may get a senior role in the next administration before Rudd gets a diplomatic post someplace.
PinkyOZ said:
Personally, I doubt that Rudd will lead the ALP to the election in 2013. Nor do I think Julia will do it either though she’s a rough chance. My dark horse guess would be Greg Combet, who is well connected and may get a senior role in the next administration before Rudd gets a diplomatic post someplace.
Oooh yeah ughhhhhhh hmmmmmmmm yeah right there ooooooh ahhhhhh my godd yessssssssss riggggggght in there !!! no,no the recyclable one.
Oooh yeah ughhhhhhh hmmmmmmmm yeah right there ooooooh ahhhhhh my godd yessssssssss riggggggght in there !!! no,no the recyclable one.
Mercurius @26: “Abbott is the suicide bomber of applied philosophy.”
Were there any other casualties apart from the bomber himself?
Umm, his colleagues, perhaps?
HQ will be ecstatic. Clone that man immediately.
Mercurius @26: “Abbott is the suicide bomber of applied philosophy.”
Were there any other casualties apart from the bomber himself?
Umm, his colleagues, perhaps?
HQ will be ecstatic. Clone that man immediately.
*** Smirk-choicers vote fascist! ***
*** Smirk-choicers vote fascist! ***
Who’s got the odds on Kevin winning the next election??????
Who’s got the odds on Kevin winning the next election??????
What’s with this replace Rudd meme that pops up? Is it not possible that he might have learnt from his experience with the ETS? Does anyone really believe that he’ll be happy to slide off just like that? He would be one outta the box if he was just prepared to hand power over with no fuss – I think he likes being PM, just like all the others.
As for Oigal, try reading the post before commenting. There is a difference, as Mark clearly states, from failure to implement policy to just plain old making stuff up a la Tony.
Tony might be smart but he’s narcissitic and has an inflated sense of his own abilities.
What’s with this replace Rudd meme that pops up? Is it not possible that he might have learnt from his experience with the ETS? Does anyone really believe that he’ll be happy to slide off just like that? He would be one outta the box if he was just prepared to hand power over with no fuss – I think he likes being PM, just like all the others.
As for Oigal, try reading the post before commenting. There is a difference, as Mark clearly states, from failure to implement policy to just plain old making stuff up a la Tony.
Tony might be smart but he’s narcissitic and has an inflated sense of his own abilities.
KeiTHy, I think you’d want betfair. last I looked, it was something like $1.40 for Labor.
KeiTHy, I think you’d want betfair. last I looked, it was something like $1.40 for Labor.
Seems no one here’s got a good word to say for Abbott, and neither have I! From now on, anything he says, Labor will be able to interrupt him with: “Hang on, are you speaking the truth here, or lying again?”
It’s a disaster for the Mad Monk, and predictably the media have obliged him by moving on quickly. Not to fear, though, he’s given Labor a Great Big Gift which will go on paying dividends from now till the end of his career.
Seems no one here’s got a good word to say for Abbott, and neither have I! From now on, anything he says, Labor will be able to interrupt him with: “Hang on, are you speaking the truth here, or lying again?”
It’s a disaster for the Mad Monk, and predictably the media have obliged him by moving on quickly. Not to fear, though, he’s given Labor a Great Big Gift which will go on paying dividends from now till the end of his career.
Lefty E @ 17, you’ve nailed it.
Has anyone read Harry Franfurt’s On Bullshit? He makes the distinction between a liar and a bullshit artist – someone like Our Tony simply doesn’t care about the truth.
Lefty E @ 17, you’ve nailed it.
Has anyone read Harry Franfurt’s On Bullshit? He makes the distinction between a liar and a bullshit artist – someone like Our Tony simply doesn’t care about the truth.
HD, Who said climate change is crap and then repeated same to some schoolkids just last week??
Mmm..Well that’s not quite true either is it? The first had a bit more context about it and the second..well he just didn’t say that at all. Now you may draw the reasonable assumption that he thinks climate change is crap from the school kids discussion but its still a long way from making your statement the “GOSPEL” truth.
As for the ETS failure being all the conservatives fault, that may well be a position to take but that is not point. It is/was in Rudd’s view the greatest moral challenge of our time. Therefore he was lying at then or is not prepared to make an issue of the greatest moral challenge of our time if not politicaly to his advantage. Not exactly a reference for good character then.
Again you cannot be serious applying “shock horror” standards to one without the others. This is such a non issue and smacks of desperation.
Rudd is the one person who should never bring up trust and honesty, the guy just makes your skin crawl with very attempt at populist connections with the rest of us. Is there anyone who does not cringe at his sad attempts to inject his monotones with ..”maaatte” “fair dinkum”? Is there anyone who would suggest for a second that he is sincere when he uses those inflections?
It is bizarre watching people try and pretend that all pollies are not habitual spinners of speech…damn its in the job description.
HD, Who said climate change is crap and then repeated same to some schoolkids just last week??
Mmm..Well that’s not quite true either is it? The first had a bit more context about it and the second..well he just didn’t say that at all. Now you may draw the reasonable assumption that he thinks climate change is crap from the school kids discussion but its still a long way from making your statement the “GOSPEL” truth.
As for the ETS failure being all the conservatives fault, that may well be a position to take but that is not point. It is/was in Rudd’s view the greatest moral challenge of our time. Therefore he was lying at then or is not prepared to make an issue of the greatest moral challenge of our time if not politicaly to his advantage. Not exactly a reference for good character then.
Again you cannot be serious applying “shock horror” standards to one without the others. This is such a non issue and smacks of desperation.
Rudd is the one person who should never bring up trust and honesty, the guy just makes your skin crawl with very attempt at populist connections with the rest of us. Is there anyone who does not cringe at his sad attempts to inject his monotones with ..”maaatte” “fair dinkum”? Is there anyone who would suggest for a second that he is sincere when he uses those inflections?
It is bizarre watching people try and pretend that all pollies are not habitual spinners of speech…damn its in the job description.
No, but thanks David – I found a few preview pages here. Seems like a good companion to some Don Watson.
No, but thanks David – I found a few preview pages here. Seems like a good companion to some Don Watson.
Oigal @40: “…repeated same to some schoolkids…”
Nah, Oigal. He was just lying to the kids…just a bit of bull…
You know, off the cuff and all that.
Aussies will understand and forgive him, since he didn’t mean it that time.
Incidentally, will we know if he ever plans on giving up the bull, especially under pressure?
What if he gets to be PM, and is in a tight spot in an international negotiation? Will his words be random unreliable concepts that strike his fancy at the time, off the cuff, under pressure, unscripted, and all that?
Gosh, don’t tell me, they would all understand that his word cannot be trusted and would forgive random dishonesty as just his way of dealing with unscripted situations???
Oigal @40: “…repeated same to some schoolkids…”
Nah, Oigal. He was just lying to the kids…just a bit of bull…
You know, off the cuff and all that.
Aussies will understand and forgive him, since he didn’t mean it that time.
Incidentally, will we know if he ever plans on giving up the bull, especially under pressure?
What if he gets to be PM, and is in a tight spot in an international negotiation? Will his words be random unreliable concepts that strike his fancy at the time, off the cuff, under pressure, unscripted, and all that?
Gosh, don’t tell me, they would all understand that his word cannot be trusted and would forgive random dishonesty as just his way of dealing with unscripted situations???
As has been pointed out on the internets already, don’tchaknow, when he said climate change was crap he wasn’t reading from a script!
As has been pointed out on the internets already, don’tchaknow, when he said climate change was crap he wasn’t reading from a script!
Ummm, doesn’t Teflonless Tony use ‘fair dinkum’ every now and then?!!?
Ummm, doesn’t Teflonless Tony use ‘fair dinkum’ every now and then?!!?
Not even that dark, any more, Fran Barlow @31 — the meeja (no prizes for guessing which meeja) was pushing him last weekend. The minute the front runner starts losing favour, go for whoever is the next man in the line. Woman? What woman?
I have seen this pattern played out time and time again over decades across all kinds of situations, including at the turning point of my own academic career.
Not even that dark, any more, Fran Barlow @31 — the meeja (no prizes for guessing which meeja) was pushing him last weekend. The minute the front runner starts losing favour, go for whoever is the next man in the line. Woman? What woman?
I have seen this pattern played out time and time again over decades across all kinds of situations, including at the turning point of my own academic career.
I have no time for most politicians full stop, particularly anyone in the Labor or Liberal party. What Abbott said was stupid. But I feel he is being attacked because it was Abbott who said it. Rudd and Gillard are masters of spin as is the disgusting Bligh government in Qld. These ALP governments and politicians are keeping up the pretence that they are honest. We all know the the ultimate aim of the ALP and Liberals is power and career and nothing else. By all means, attack Abbott but let’s not forget the daily word play, spin and lies that come out of the current government in power, right now. Abbott is not in power but he is the one being attacked. The ALP is currently in power and putting out their lies and are being let off the hook by a biased left. The ALP is just as guilty as Abbott.
I have no time for most politicians full stop, particularly anyone in the Labor or Liberal party. What Abbott said was stupid. But I feel he is being attacked because it was Abbott who said it. Rudd and Gillard are masters of spin as is the disgusting Bligh government in Qld. These ALP governments and politicians are keeping up the pretence that they are honest. We all know the the ultimate aim of the ALP and Liberals is power and career and nothing else. By all means, attack Abbott but let’s not forget the daily word play, spin and lies that come out of the current government in power, right now. Abbott is not in power but he is the one being attacked. The ALP is currently in power and putting out their lies and are being let off the hook by a biased left. The ALP is just as guilty as Abbott.
Ideally we would through Rudd out at the next election and then have another election a week later to through out Abbott.
Ideally we would through Rudd out at the next election and then have another election a week later to through out Abbott.
Politicians lie remorselessly because the media won’t let them tell the truth. The real Abbott is actually the one who ad libs; the scripted one is phoney. But the Liberal Party knows that unscripted Tony puts the party out on a very whacky and radical limb, so they clean him up for the official record.
Abbott, as a supposed straight talker, has been a beneficiary of people switching off the too controlled Rudd. In that way, the two men are mirror images of each other. Rudd appeared most effective, at least in my opinion, when he let loose at Kerry on the 7.30 Report last week. Even if the passion was a big of a put-on, it appeared real enough for people tired of his unctuousness.
In my view, Labor should recover some support from here as Abbott and Hockey have now been found out in a big way. Labor, unlike the Coalition, has a good, consistent message. The Coalition has none, other than some shopworn leftovers from the Howard era in neo-liberal (and now totally discredited) economics and shameful dog whistling social policy (that the bulk of the population now wants to leave behind).
Politicians lie remorselessly because the media won’t let them tell the truth. The real Abbott is actually the one who ad libs; the scripted one is phoney. But the Liberal Party knows that unscripted Tony puts the party out on a very whacky and radical limb, so they clean him up for the official record.
Abbott, as a supposed straight talker, has been a beneficiary of people switching off the too controlled Rudd. In that way, the two men are mirror images of each other. Rudd appeared most effective, at least in my opinion, when he let loose at Kerry on the 7.30 Report last week. Even if the passion was a big of a put-on, it appeared real enough for people tired of his unctuousness.
In my view, Labor should recover some support from here as Abbott and Hockey have now been found out in a big way. Labor, unlike the Coalition, has a good, consistent message. The Coalition has none, other than some shopworn leftovers from the Howard era in neo-liberal (and now totally discredited) economics and shameful dog whistling social policy (that the bulk of the population now wants to leave behind).
There’s a risk of getting side-tracked with a discussion of whether a politician has lied or not. I remember endless semantic arguments about whether or not something Howard had said could legitimately be characterised as a lie.
For that reason I seldom called Howard a liar. I preferred to call him contemptibly dishonest and deceptive. Abbott is a true Howard disciple. I have no doubt he subscribes to the elitist conservative belief that deceiving others is morally fine if it serves the good of the nation.
There’s a risk of getting side-tracked with a discussion of whether a politician has lied or not. I remember endless semantic arguments about whether or not something Howard had said could legitimately be characterised as a lie.
For that reason I seldom called Howard a liar. I preferred to call him contemptibly dishonest and deceptive. Abbott is a true Howard disciple. I have no doubt he subscribes to the elitist conservative belief that deceiving others is morally fine if it serves the good of the nation.
Throwing Rudd out isn’t going to fix anything. As Spana observes the system is corrupted, the Mad Monk has merely illustrated just how untrustworthy any politician from the mainstream parties is. It’s possible that the general public will perceive Phoney Tony as slightly less trustworthy than K Rudd but Labor retreat on Carbon just to mention one example illustrates the folly of believing anything they say.
Throwing Rudd out isn’t going to fix anything. As Spana observes the system is corrupted, the Mad Monk has merely illustrated just how untrustworthy any politician from the mainstream parties is. It’s possible that the general public will perceive Phoney Tony as slightly less trustworthy than K Rudd but Labor retreat on Carbon just to mention one example illustrates the folly of believing anything they say.
From Morgan via Possum [slightly amended]
“If you were a Lib. or Nat. voter helping to choose the Coalition leader for the next federal election who would you prefer?”
Jan 10
Turnbull 16
Abbott 30
Hockey 28
Others/NA 26
May 10
Turnbull 29 [up 11]
Abbott 27 [down 3]
Hockey 27 [down 1]
Others/NA 17 [down 9]
Why is the Rudd/Gillard thingy an issue when the fact that Abbott cannot even muster close to majority support for his position and is runner up to someone who was ‘retiring’, until recently?
From Morgan via Possum [slightly amended]
“If you were a Lib. or Nat. voter helping to choose the Coalition leader for the next federal election who would you prefer?”
Jan 10
Turnbull 16
Abbott 30
Hockey 28
Others/NA 26
May 10
Turnbull 29 [up 11]
Abbott 27 [down 3]
Hockey 27 [down 1]
Others/NA 17 [down 9]
Why is the Rudd/Gillard thingy an issue when the fact that Abbott cannot even muster close to majority support for his position and is runner up to someone who was ‘retiring’, until recently?
Tony’s out… but who’s in? Hockey’s utterly failed on the budget – just watch the 7:30 report – or as my mate’s said “the dismantling of Joe Hockey Prime Minister”.
Tony’s out… but who’s in? Hockey’s utterly failed on the budget – just watch the 7:30 report – or as my mate’s said “the dismantling of Joe Hockey Prime Minister”.
Good old Turncoat Turnbull eh, Hanna’s dad? First he was “passionately committed” to emissions trading, and denounced Abbott’s scheme as “bullshit”. Now he’s singing the praises of Abbott’s Great Big Con Job.
Then he was retiring, now he’s not.
I hope Kerry O’Brien, next time he has him on the 7.30 Report, gives him a good going-over for his backflips.
With the disastrous Grech Affair also on his CV, the Bully is looking decidedly flaky in my books.
Good old Turncoat Turnbull eh, Hanna’s dad? First he was “passionately committed” to emissions trading, and denounced Abbott’s scheme as “bullshit”. Now he’s singing the praises of Abbott’s Great Big Con Job.
Then he was retiring, now he’s not.
I hope Kerry O’Brien, next time he has him on the 7.30 Report, gives him a good going-over for his backflips.
With the disastrous Grech Affair also on his CV, the Bully is looking decidedly flaky in my books.
And having thrown out both within a week Terje, whom would we throw in?
And having thrown out both within a week Terje, whom would we throw in?
IT’S WAR: LOOK AT THE PRICE OF HOUSES AND THE INEVITABILITY THAT MOST OF THE NEW GENERATION WILL NEVER OWN A HOUSE. The truth died long ago and we accepted it! (…9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11…..)
IT’S WAR: LOOK AT THE PRICE OF HOUSES AND THE INEVITABILITY THAT MOST OF THE NEW GENERATION WILL NEVER OWN A HOUSE. The truth died long ago and we accepted it! (…9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11 9-11…..)
Hockey sure aint going anywhere fast: true that!
Hockey sure aint going anywhere fast: true that!
Not surprised. After all,Howard was his mentor. He’s just copying the Master.
Not surprised. After all,Howard was his mentor. He’s just copying the Master.
Liar, Liar Pants on Fire Abbott. He was a lousy Health Minister too!
Liar, Liar Pants on Fire Abbott. He was a lousy Health Minister too!
On the third point in Mark’s original post, it is very clear that Tony’s Oxford years did not include any study of the works of Paul Grice. Such study would have given him a clear picture of the assumptions underlying everyday conversation – I particularly recommend the Maxim of Quality for Tony’s attention (not that I am saying he couldn’t pay some attention to the other three as well!).
On the third point in Mark’s original post, it is very clear that Tony’s Oxford years did not include any study of the works of Paul Grice. Such study would have given him a clear picture of the assumptions underlying everyday conversation – I particularly recommend the Maxim of Quality for Tony’s attention (not that I am saying he couldn’t pay some attention to the other three as well!).
…
“A hard and fast connection between size of government and the rate of economic growth – on any reasonable measure – is not supported by anybody of serious economic thought.”
…
source: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2903367.htm , Abbott’s economic furphy , Graham White
…
“A hard and fast connection between size of government and the rate of economic growth – on any reasonable measure – is not supported by anybody of serious economic thought.”
…
source: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2903367.htm , Abbott’s economic furphy , Graham White
He is trying to make himself appear more human. Deep down he has tickets on himself. Does he think telling the truth is a gift?
He is trying to make himself appear more human. Deep down he has tickets on himself. Does he think telling the truth is a gift?
Er, Spana, perhaps you could point me in the direction of any media which is full of government “spin”. I’m hard put to find anything but spin favouring Smuggles and negative, untruthful reporting on the stimulus spending.
Er, Spana, perhaps you could point me in the direction of any media which is full of government “spin”. I’m hard put to find anything but spin favouring Smuggles and negative, untruthful reporting on the stimulus spending.
Also I want to hear from Spana and Oigal how it is that Labor’s botched ETS policy attempt is somehow the same as lying through your teeth to stop the difficult questions coming.
The ETS as proposed by the ALP was most certainly a pretty poor policy, and politically it was a disastrously handled. But that is hardly the same thing as deliberately lying about something.
And, as Possum has already explained, the ETS is thrown out until at 2013 because that’s about the first date that any new scheme can start in a reconstituted parliament, given that it has to have a ramp up period and assuming that the ALP get back in and they can cobble together the numbers in the Senate.
How is any of that the moral equivalent of lying? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Also I want to hear from Spana and Oigal how it is that Labor’s botched ETS policy attempt is somehow the same as lying through your teeth to stop the difficult questions coming.
The ETS as proposed by the ALP was most certainly a pretty poor policy, and politically it was a disastrously handled. But that is hardly the same thing as deliberately lying about something.
And, as Possum has already explained, the ETS is thrown out until at 2013 because that’s about the first date that any new scheme can start in a reconstituted parliament, given that it has to have a ramp up period and assuming that the ALP get back in and they can cobble together the numbers in the Senate.
How is any of that the moral equivalent of lying? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Barnaby Joyce said “What someone might say to their lover in the heat of passion is entirely different, or should be entirely different, [from what they say] to the lady checking out your groceries at the supermarket.”
The question voters need to ask : is the electorate the lover or the supermarket lady, or actually both at different times? After Tony Abbott’s 7.30 Report admissions, we know that what Mr Abbott says to us in the heat of campaign passion is likely to be vastly different from what he says and does when, passion cast aside, the electorate reverts to its mundane supermarket lady role.
Barnaby Joyce said “What someone might say to their lover in the heat of passion is entirely different, or should be entirely different, [from what they say] to the lady checking out your groceries at the supermarket.”
The question voters need to ask : is the electorate the lover or the supermarket lady, or actually both at different times? After Tony Abbott’s 7.30 Report admissions, we know that what Mr Abbott says to us in the heat of campaign passion is likely to be vastly different from what he says and does when, passion cast aside, the electorate reverts to its mundane supermarket lady role.
Agnes Mack @ 41, I think it’s more the difference what Abbott says 15 secs before the vinegar stroke versus what he says 15 secs after. ‘I love you long time’ as opposed to ‘Get out, I’m done’.
Agnes Mack @ 41, I think it’s more the difference what Abbott says 15 secs before the vinegar stroke versus what he says 15 secs after. ‘I love you long time’ as opposed to ‘Get out, I’m done’.
I reckon Abbott would say he wasn’t about to come in our mouths.
I reckon Abbott would say he wasn’t about to come in our mouths.
“And, as Possum has already explained, the ETS is thrown out until at 2013″
Possum’s analysis was spurious. There is no reason that an ETS could not be up and running in 2012 given the preparations that have already been made within the department of climate change. If the government had been serious about its scheme it could also have begun preparations for a DD earlier. Hartcher made this point in the SMH in the past few days. Further, the government have given no guarantee that the scheme will even commence in 2013 as they have stated clearly that it will depend on the measures taken in the international community. Rudd has had three climate change advisers resign since 2007. DCC staff are extremely demoralised by the government’s change of heart on climate policy. Face it, Rudd got scared about fighting an election on the policy that he had argued was a moral imperative. Earlier the government roundly rejected the claim that Australia should wait for other countries before implementing an ETS. If the government were not being shifty they would simply announce a new concrete timetable for implementing the scheme, consistent with the constraints provided by the legilative passage of the supporting bills. Would it be a political risk? Sure, but then it is supposed to be a moral imperative right? Also, in the new parliament, Labor could simply join with the Greens to implement an interim carbon tax until the CPRS is ready for implementation. No sign of that though either. Face it, there is a yawning gap between government rhetoric on climate policy and government action. I’d say that was at least as important as Abbott admitting that not everything he said should be taken at face value.
And on Turnbull, you need to read more closely (this is directed at others). He said that he still thought that an ETS was the right way to go. But that Abbott’s policy was superior to the policy vaccuum we now have due to the government’s change of heart on the CPRS. And he is correct. The uncertainty that has been generated is enormous and certainly guarantees that a lot of new energy investment will be delayed until business has a better idea of what the regulatory environment will be over the next few years.
“And, as Possum has already explained, the ETS is thrown out until at 2013″
Possum’s analysis was spurious. There is no reason that an ETS could not be up and running in 2012 given the preparations that have already been made within the department of climate change. If the government had been serious about its scheme it could also have begun preparations for a DD earlier. Hartcher made this point in the SMH in the past few days. Further, the government have given no guarantee that the scheme will even commence in 2013 as they have stated clearly that it will depend on the measures taken in the international community. Rudd has had three climate change advisers resign since 2007. DCC staff are extremely demoralised by the government’s change of heart on climate policy. Face it, Rudd got scared about fighting an election on the policy that he had argued was a moral imperative. Earlier the government roundly rejected the claim that Australia should wait for other countries before implementing an ETS. If the government were not being shifty they would simply announce a new concrete timetable for implementing the scheme, consistent with the constraints provided by the legilative passage of the supporting bills. Would it be a political risk? Sure, but then it is supposed to be a moral imperative right? Also, in the new parliament, Labor could simply join with the Greens to implement an interim carbon tax until the CPRS is ready for implementation. No sign of that though either. Face it, there is a yawning gap between government rhetoric on climate policy and government action. I’d say that was at least as important as Abbott admitting that not everything he said should be taken at face value.
And on Turnbull, you need to read more closely (this is directed at others). He said that he still thought that an ETS was the right way to go. But that Abbott’s policy was superior to the policy vaccuum we now have due to the government’s change of heart on the CPRS. And he is correct. The uncertainty that has been generated is enormous and certainly guarantees that a lot of new energy investment will be delayed until business has a better idea of what the regulatory environment will be over the next few years.
Besides Tyro, if one were a utilitarian, one could quite easily argue that a government screwing up, delaying and then misleading on climate policy was, morally, significantly worse than a politician admitting that he would make things up at times for political reasons. That is especially the case given that Abbott merely admitted to something that many of suspect to be true anyway.
Besides Tyro, if one were a utilitarian, one could quite easily argue that a government screwing up, delaying and then misleading on climate policy was, morally, significantly worse than a politician admitting that he would make things up at times for political reasons. That is especially the case given that Abbott merely admitted to something that many of suspect to be true anyway.
A minor detail.
A minor detail.
Terje for President!
Terje for President!
If we are to grade our global politicians as a method to determine what one might expect in performance, and also how they might grade each other upon meeting, it would be reasonable to think of Abbott as George Bush II,….with an ozzy twang. Both Abbott and Bush are “leaders” of last resort whose quircky personalities obscure their horrendous unsuitability long enough for them to pass the electoral popularity test. And personality wise they are very alike.
As far as substance goes Bush, I believe, was a kind of sockpuppet for the ultra right wing religeous zealots who elevated him to the leaders role to be the face of their manipulations. Abbott on the other hand, or Okker Bush as he might reasonably be termed, is a kind of team “B” last man standing due to injury or death of all others around, never intended to be, kind of leader.
The primary differences between Bush and Abbott, in my opinion, are that Bush was a fairly straight guy with a sense of humour who voiced the lies of others, whereas Abbott I observe as being a devious weasel with no real humour sense who defaults to lies when his intellect runs out of options. Aw shucks.
I shudder to think of Australia’s international reputation being remoulded by the personas of Abbott and Hockey.
If we are to grade our global politicians as a method to determine what one might expect in performance, and also how they might grade each other upon meeting, it would be reasonable to think of Abbott as George Bush II,….with an ozzy twang. Both Abbott and Bush are “leaders” of last resort whose quircky personalities obscure their horrendous unsuitability long enough for them to pass the electoral popularity test. And personality wise they are very alike.
As far as substance goes Bush, I believe, was a kind of sockpuppet for the ultra right wing religeous zealots who elevated him to the leaders role to be the face of their manipulations. Abbott on the other hand, or Okker Bush as he might reasonably be termed, is a kind of team “B” last man standing due to injury or death of all others around, never intended to be, kind of leader.
The primary differences between Bush and Abbott, in my opinion, are that Bush was a fairly straight guy with a sense of humour who voiced the lies of others, whereas Abbott I observe as being a devious weasel with no real humour sense who defaults to lies when his intellect runs out of options. Aw shucks.
I shudder to think of Australia’s international reputation being remoulded by the personas of Abbott and Hockey.
Labor Outsider at 67: You seem to overlook the reality that the Liberals and the Greens combined in the Senate to defeat the Government’s legislation for an ETS scheme. It would have been up and running if the Coalition had held to the negotiated deal.
Labor Outsider at 67: You seem to overlook the reality that the Liberals and the Greens combined in the Senate to defeat the Government’s legislation for an ETS scheme. It would have been up and running if the Coalition had held to the negotiated deal.
#72, You’d think if they’d been that desperate to get a carbon policy worthy of the name up and running, they could called a snap election in the certain knowledge that the Greens might hold the balance of power in a new Parliament.
Almost as much imagination as Clegg joining with the Tories against Labour in Britain, to the horror of libdem rank and file, or Tasmanian Labor preferring the sleazy company of the Libs and Gunns over that of the Tassie Greens.
Not much left of the hope that 2007 was to be the turning point, as to the role of rationality and science in determining policy.
The Gulf of Mexico mess makes for a good motif for the new New World Order; as for Thailand or Greece, I couldn’t possibly comment.
#72, You’d think if they’d been that desperate to get a carbon policy worthy of the name up and running, they could called a snap election in the certain knowledge that the Greens might hold the balance of power in a new Parliament.
Almost as much imagination as Clegg joining with the Tories against Labour in Britain, to the horror of libdem rank and file, or Tasmanian Labor preferring the sleazy company of the Libs and Gunns over that of the Tassie Greens.
Not much left of the hope that 2007 was to be the turning point, as to the role of rationality and science in determining policy.
The Gulf of Mexico mess makes for a good motif for the new New World Order; as for Thailand or Greece, I couldn’t possibly comment.
Miranda’s a special treat this morning. A ‘new Moses’ is among us. Hail the king, he has arisen!
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/compared-to-labouring-rudd-abbotts-a-notricks-phoney-20100519-vf4f.html
Miranda’s a special treat this morning. A ‘new Moses’ is among us. Hail the king, he has arisen!
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/compared-to-labouring-rudd-abbotts-a-notricks-phoney-20100519-vf4f.html
David Irving(no relation)@66. Nice cut through line.
Now I wonder how that could be incorporated into the advertising material to attract those other than Sex Party voters?
David Irving(no relation)@66. Nice cut through line.
Now I wonder how that could be incorporated into the advertising material to attract those other than Sex Party voters?
I love this moment of abbot-worship from that Devine article:
She really is legendary.
I love this moment of abbot-worship from that Devine article:
She really is legendary.
Yep, on Miranda’s logic, Kevin Rudd’s backflip on the ETS is fine too:
Yep, on Miranda’s logic, Kevin Rudd’s backflip on the ETS is fine too:
“when his intellect runs out of options.”
Must mean he’s always lying.
“when his intellect runs out of options.”
Must mean he’s always lying.
@40
“Therefore he was lying at then”
Sorry you’ll have to elaborate. Are you saying that Rudd lied to us because CC is provably NOT the greatest moral challenge of our time and that you can prove that some else is definitely THE GREATEST moral challenge of our time.
On the other hand are you saying that stating that you have not met with Cardinal Pell when it is the case that you have actually and definitely met with Cardinal Pell and that it can be independently verified that you did in fact meet with Cardinal Pell is not a lie? Do you realise the revolution in human relations you are proposing? Truly you are on the cutting edge of perception.
@40
“Therefore he was lying at then”
Sorry you’ll have to elaborate. Are you saying that Rudd lied to us because CC is provably NOT the greatest moral challenge of our time and that you can prove that some else is definitely THE GREATEST moral challenge of our time.
On the other hand are you saying that stating that you have not met with Cardinal Pell when it is the case that you have actually and definitely met with Cardinal Pell and that it can be independently verified that you did in fact meet with Cardinal Pell is not a lie? Do you realise the revolution in human relations you are proposing? Truly you are on the cutting edge of perception.
This really is LOL-worhty, image and all. What a hapless shambles! If the meeja does have a pro-coalition agenda, they have precious little to work with: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/20/2904307.htm
This really is LOL-worhty, image and all. What a hapless shambles! If the meeja does have a pro-coalition agenda, they have precious little to work with: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/20/2904307.htm
BilB wrote:
Simpler explanation: Morons. A-grade, fully fledged, dumb as a sack of rocks morons. Belted with the stupid stick at birth. Witless, mouth-breathing idiots with no conception of their own intellectual limitations.
Every time somebody explains a politician as a “straight-shooter”, you can rest assured it’s code for moron. It really means the politician in question has only a tenuous grasp on their own inner monologue.
Abbott is, however, incredibly entertaining in that he is nowhere near the levers of any kind of power that made Bush II downright frightening and can plumb new depths of public stupid every fortnight with the regularity of the worlds slowest metronome. I love it.
BilB wrote:
Simpler explanation: Morons. A-grade, fully fledged, dumb as a sack of rocks morons. Belted with the stupid stick at birth. Witless, mouth-breathing idiots with no conception of their own intellectual limitations.
Every time somebody explains a politician as a “straight-shooter”, you can rest assured it’s code for moron. It really means the politician in question has only a tenuous grasp on their own inner monologue.
Abbott is, however, incredibly entertaining in that he is nowhere near the levers of any kind of power that made Bush II downright frightening and can plumb new depths of public stupid every fortnight with the regularity of the worlds slowest metronome. I love it.
Following on from hannah’s dad @51, maybe the next Morgan poll could ask the question: “If you were a Lib. or Nat. voter helping to choose the Coalition leader for the next federal election who would you prefer?”
Turnbull
Abbott
Hockey
A sack of hammers
Following on from hannah’s dad @51, maybe the next Morgan poll could ask the question: “If you were a Lib. or Nat. voter helping to choose the Coalition leader for the next federal election who would you prefer?”
Turnbull
Abbott
Hockey
A sack of hammers
I can practically see the ALP HQ video squad preparing their ‘would you trust this sack of hammers’ ads, Zoot.
I can practically see the ALP HQ video squad preparing their ‘would you trust this sack of hammers’ ads, Zoot.
I just read Devine’s hilarious piece – thanks Lloyd @ 74. Somehow it never occurred to me before that politicians delivering election promises were just like mums bringing that plate of pikelets to the church social like they said they would. If they can’t do it cos the car broke down or they ran out of flour, well nobody’s gonna hold it against them. Miranda has such a wonderful gift of expressing things in ways ordinary folk can understand.
Which is no doubt why she knows ‘Out there in voterland people are wandering in the wilderness looking for a new Moses.’ Heh I made some observations on another thread about patronising arguments but nobody can hold a candle to the conservatives when it comes to condescension.
BTW does that mean we get to have a golden calf soon? Yippee!!!
I just read Devine’s hilarious piece – thanks Lloyd @ 74. Somehow it never occurred to me before that politicians delivering election promises were just like mums bringing that plate of pikelets to the church social like they said they would. If they can’t do it cos the car broke down or they ran out of flour, well nobody’s gonna hold it against them. Miranda has such a wonderful gift of expressing things in ways ordinary folk can understand.
Which is no doubt why she knows ‘Out there in voterland people are wandering in the wilderness looking for a new Moses.’ Heh I made some observations on another thread about patronising arguments but nobody can hold a candle to the conservatives when it comes to condescension.
BTW does that mean we get to have a golden calf soon? Yippee!!!
LO as I read it, and your explanation, I still don’t find the moral equivalent. The reality of politics is that its messy. I think having been burnt by their stupid policy in the first place, Rudd wants to make sure he’s not burnt by it again. Its not a good look but you cannot demonstrate that Rudd was lying about his commitment before nor is his lack of commitment amount to lying about it now. Its just politics of one sort or another.
LO as I read it, and your explanation, I still don’t find the moral equivalent. The reality of politics is that its messy. I think having been burnt by their stupid policy in the first place, Rudd wants to make sure he’s not burnt by it again. Its not a good look but you cannot demonstrate that Rudd was lying about his commitment before nor is his lack of commitment amount to lying about it now. Its just politics of one sort or another.
Tim@3, chiming in rather late here, but yes to the schoolboy/girl immaturity of the Liberals – remember Julie Bishop in Question time calling Kevin “a nordy booooooy”!
Tim@3, chiming in rather late here, but yes to the schoolboy/girl immaturity of the Liberals – remember Julie Bishop in Question time calling Kevin “a nordy booooooy”!
I would say that statism remains the greatest moral challenge of our time. It has been for a century and whilst the fall of the soviet union was a major victory we are overall still losing. More and more our lives are regulated by state empowered morons.
AGW is a challenge but the technical solution is pretty straight forward. Go nuclear and do a bit of cloud whitening in the interim if necessary.
I would say that statism remains the greatest moral challenge of our time. It has been for a century and whilst the fall of the soviet union was a major victory we are overall still losing. More and more our lives are regulated by state empowered morons.
AGW is a challenge but the technical solution is pretty straight forward. Go nuclear and do a bit of cloud whitening in the interim if necessary.
Helen – both sides are immature. Not because they are worse than the rest of us but because the incentives of the system encourage it. They are engaged in a zero sum competition.
Helen – both sides are immature. Not because they are worse than the rest of us but because the incentives of the system encourage it. They are engaged in a zero sum competition.
oooh, Terje, how precisely do you propose this nuclear industry working without a strong state to subsidize it and monitor it, and bail it out when it cocks up? I’d love to see the average libertarian society’s market-based response to a chernobyl-style disaster. How entertaining! I suppose I could sell pure water at $50 a bottle while everyone lines up at the toll gates to the user-pays road as they flee the contaminated area.
Comedy gold!
oooh, Terje, how precisely do you propose this nuclear industry working without a strong state to subsidize it and monitor it, and bail it out when it cocks up? I’d love to see the average libertarian society’s market-based response to a chernobyl-style disaster. How entertaining! I suppose I could sell pure water at $50 a bottle while everyone lines up at the toll gates to the user-pays road as they flee the contaminated area.
Comedy gold!
Also as the owner of the toll road it’s perfectly within my right to raise the toll to $500 in response to this spike in demand.
Also as the owner of the toll road it’s perfectly within my right to raise the toll to $500 in response to this spike in demand.
Yes indeed … as much as I favour the roll out of nuclear power, I’m very much in favour of firm regulation and oversight by well-credentialled people with an interest in safety and probity. In practice these are largely going to be representatives of the state.
Tom Blees, who wrote Prescription for the Planet favouring the roll out of nuclear, has the view that nuclear power should be a state monopoly. I’m not sure I agree with that, as regulating and operating tend to be somewhat in conflict. In my model, the state would own the plants but lease them out to private operators under strict regs.
Yes indeed … as much as I favour the roll out of nuclear power, I’m very much in favour of firm regulation and oversight by well-credentialled people with an interest in safety and probity. In practice these are largely going to be representatives of the state.
Tom Blees, who wrote Prescription for the Planet favouring the roll out of nuclear, has the view that nuclear power should be a state monopoly. I’m not sure I agree with that, as regulating and operating tend to be somewhat in conflict. In my model, the state would own the plants but lease them out to private operators under strict regs.
Also, the nuclear plant won’t be required to tell anyone that they’ve contaminated the area, since if it bothers anyone they’ll sue, right? So the powerplant owners just kind of wait, and when the mutated babies start turning up they pull the old “what, me?” expression, hire some hot lawyers, and fight every claim through the courts forever and a day, until the families give up and move to State-istan.
Also, the nuclear plant won’t be required to tell anyone that they’ve contaminated the area, since if it bothers anyone they’ll sue, right? So the powerplant owners just kind of wait, and when the mutated babies start turning up they pull the old “what, me?” expression, hire some hot lawyers, and fight every claim through the courts forever and a day, until the families give up and move to State-istan.
SG …
uttered the mutated babies dystopia without prompting or evidence at all
And people wonder why Tony Abbott can make up such nonsense and fancy getting a free pass …
SG …
uttered the mutated babies dystopia without prompting or evidence at all
And people wonder why Tony Abbott can make up such nonsense and fancy getting a free pass …
JohnL – I am not forgetting that at all. The response of a government that genuinely believed climate change to be the great moral challenge of our time was to declare the voting down of the CPRS as a setback and then set out a timetable that would lead to a double dissolution on the issue at the first available opportunity. Language like – this is our most important environmental and economic reform – we will not deviate from our intention to introduce it – future generations cannot afford for us to backflip on the issue even though it might be easier politically, etc. Good governance requires taking political risks when important aspects of your legislative agenda are at stake. Otherwise people begin to ask themselves whether you stand for anything at all. Rudd squibbed it. Everyone knows it. Why defend it?
JohnL – I am not forgetting that at all. The response of a government that genuinely believed climate change to be the great moral challenge of our time was to declare the voting down of the CPRS as a setback and then set out a timetable that would lead to a double dissolution on the issue at the first available opportunity. Language like – this is our most important environmental and economic reform – we will not deviate from our intention to introduce it – future generations cannot afford for us to backflip on the issue even though it might be easier politically, etc. Good governance requires taking political risks when important aspects of your legislative agenda are at stake. Otherwise people begin to ask themselves whether you stand for anything at all. Rudd squibbed it. Everyone knows it. Why defend it?
Anybody with a touching faith in global corporations to act in the interests of the community, or indeed anything other than their bottom line, should go and see Food Inc. and be prepared for a rude shock.
Anybody with a touching faith in global corporations to act in the interests of the community, or indeed anything other than their bottom line, should go and see Food Inc. and be prepared for a rude shock.
Hey Fran, lay off! I’m making fun here, I’m aware that nuclear power is not as dangerous as people fear (though still hardly worry free, hence the need for a strong regulatory framework), and in fact chernobyl has led to the development of an excellent wildlife park that can be viewed here or here (that second one leaves Silent Hill for dead).
It appears to be largely mutation free. But still, regulation is important, no?
Hey Fran, lay off! I’m making fun here, I’m aware that nuclear power is not as dangerous as people fear (though still hardly worry free, hence the need for a strong regulatory framework), and in fact chernobyl has led to the development of an excellent wildlife park that can be viewed here or here (that second one leaves Silent Hill for dead).
It appears to be largely mutation free. But still, regulation is important, no?
Fair enough SG … the humour slid past …
As I say in the other thread … regulation is (very) important, yes.
Fair enough SG … the humour slid past …
As I say in the other thread … regulation is (very) important, yes.
Deep breath. Repeat the calming mantra: Dunning-Kruger Effect, Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Deep breath. Repeat the calming mantra: Dunning-Kruger Effect, Dunning-Kruger Effect.
“I would say that statism remains the greatest moral challenge of our time. It has been for a century”
Prior to which it was tyranny without even the garb of state, but let’s ignore that, right?
“I would say that statism remains the greatest moral challenge of our time. It has been for a century”
Prior to which it was tyranny without even the garb of state, but let’s ignore that, right?
I have not been able to believe tone since I realised he was a deflowered priest.
I have not been able to believe tone since I realised he was a deflowered priest.
I think TerjeP would really enjoy the Libertarian Paradise of Somalia.
(Yes, yes, I know we’ve all seen it before, but mocking glibertarians never gets old.)
I think TerjeP would really enjoy the Libertarian Paradise of Somalia.
(Yes, yes, I know we’ve all seen it before, but mocking glibertarians never gets old.)
Was this that cool link for TerjeP, David Irving (no relation)?
(yours does not work on my puter)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/somalia-libertarian-parad_n_197763.html
Was this that cool link for TerjeP, David Irving (no relation)?
(yours does not work on my puter)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/06/somalia-libertarian-parad_n_197763.html
Probably close enough, joe2, if it shows a smiling young couple surrounded by squalor.
I borked the link last night, and am at work at the moment so it’s unlikely to be available.
Probably close enough, joe2, if it shows a smiling young couple surrounded by squalor.
I borked the link last night, and am at work at the moment so it’s unlikely to be available.
Fran @93, I don’t know about “mutated” babies, but I did see a documentary in Europe about a very high level of tumours and cancers in the affected area.
The Swedes, who know a thing or two more than us about radioactivity and nuclear power, tested and dug up all the affected topsoil beneath the plume from Chernobyl (which drifted over Sweden), and shot all the affected reindeer.
Does that sound like not worried at all?
Fran, presumably you think the Swedes are barking mad, and you are confident you know better, that there was no risk to their environment or their population?
Fran @93, I don’t know about “mutated” babies, but I did see a documentary in Europe about a very high level of tumours and cancers in the affected area.
The Swedes, who know a thing or two more than us about radioactivity and nuclear power, tested and dug up all the affected topsoil beneath the plume from Chernobyl (which drifted over Sweden), and shot all the affected reindeer.
Does that sound like not worried at all?
Fran, presumably you think the Swedes are barking mad, and you are confident you know better, that there was no risk to their environment or their population?
Laugh whilst we are talking about dabblers in truth.
I do believe you find this in The Latham Diarys;
Page 218
Page 364
and I did like this..
Saturday, 22nd November 2003, Page 243
Oh and there is so much more, I did enjoy the story about the creep sobbing when he got challenged on his honesty and loyality. Honestly, there are few people who make my skin crawl like Rudd, there are plenty I dislike, opposed, disagree with but few who the moment you see and hear them talk you know they are 100% fraud. He will cost the ALP the election this year no doubt.
Laugh whilst we are talking about dabblers in truth.
I do believe you find this in The Latham Diarys;
Page 218
Page 364
and I did like this..
Saturday, 22nd November 2003, Page 243
Oh and there is so much more, I did enjoy the story about the creep sobbing when he got challenged on his honesty and loyality. Honestly, there are few people who make my skin crawl like Rudd, there are plenty I dislike, opposed, disagree with but few who the moment you see and hear them talk you know they are 100% fraud. He will cost the ALP the election this year no doubt.
Oigal, thank you for sharing.
Oigal, thank you for sharing.
A reply to John Ward
Please be reassured
Tony’s No Phony
Surely not deflowered
Just because Mr. Howard
Once made a great favourite of him?
This man was unfrocked
But should not be mocked
For he has confessed to his sin.
Like other abbotts
He’s got bad habits
To which he admits with a grin.
But Senator Joyce
Of late gave some voice
To issues that go beyond spin.
Is Tony on rations
Or does he have passions
For ‘others’ or only for liberal wimmin?
Let’s give due deference
To sexual preference
With respect for the man within.
In political life
He’s often in strife
But always at ease showing skin.
Looming elections
May show predilections
Especially if he has a win.
But like Gordon Brown
He knows how to go down
Taking the outcome on the chin.
With Australia the prize.
Soon all will be wise.
Then we’ll see judgements begin.
Is he like the rodent?
Let’s pray he’s impotent,
And can’t get it up to get in!
A reply to John Ward
Please be reassured
Tony’s No Phony
Surely not deflowered
Just because Mr. Howard
Once made a great favourite of him?
This man was unfrocked
But should not be mocked
For he has confessed to his sin.
Like other abbotts
He’s got bad habits
To which he admits with a grin.
But Senator Joyce
Of late gave some voice
To issues that go beyond spin.
Is Tony on rations
Or does he have passions
For ‘others’ or only for liberal wimmin?
Let’s give due deference
To sexual preference
With respect for the man within.
In political life
He’s often in strife
But always at ease showing skin.
Looming elections
May show predilections
Especially if he has a win.
But like Gordon Brown
He knows how to go down
Taking the outcome on the chin.
With Australia the prize.
Soon all will be wise.
Then we’ll see judgements begin.
Is he like the rodent?
Let’s pray he’s impotent,
And can’t get it up to get in!
Oh noes, not quotations from Mr Mark Latham to prove what a bastard ze Kevin Rudd is. I do believe it must be true, for Mr Latham is truly ze objective observer with not an axe to grind.
Oigal, I 2 thank you for sharing, you are 2 kind.
Oh noes, not quotations from Mr Mark Latham to prove what a bastard ze Kevin Rudd is. I do believe it must be true, for Mr Latham is truly ze objective observer with not an axe to grind.
Oigal, I 2 thank you for sharing, you are 2 kind.
And a real thank you to Patricia WA. I always love reading your verse.
And a real thank you to Patricia WA. I always love reading your verse.
Mark latham! Thats almost as naive as believing JWH is not a liar.
Mark latham! Thats almost as naive as believing JWH is not a liar.
Or, to be a bit less polemic about it, Oigal, you do realise at the time Latham was making those entries in his diary, he knew that he fully intended to puyblish them sooner or later. Now, that doesn’t mean that what Latham wrote was necessarily false, but it does mean the diaries have to be treated with a considewrable amount of scepticism since a lot of other people who were participants dispite their accuracy, as I understand it.
Or, to be a bit less polemic about it, Oigal, you do realise at the time Latham was making those entries in his diary, he knew that he fully intended to puyblish them sooner or later. Now, that doesn’t mean that what Latham wrote was necessarily false, but it does mean the diaries have to be treated with a considewrable amount of scepticism since a lot of other people who were participants dispite their accuracy, as I understand it.
Just Latham..just Hawke..just Keating..Just Big Kim…
Are people here really suggesting that Rudd has any real supporters inside or outside of the ALP? Still the anyone who can so gutlessly walk away from the “greatest moral challenge of our time” and still expect people to have any respect for anything else it says, does show an ability to live a world apart from the rest.
Still, that is not the point, we are talking about the great myth pollies don’t fib.
Just for something different then, shall we try
April 29.
Which makes Craig Emerson a liar or a completely inept Minister for Small Business and Service Economy.
Sssshhh…Patricia, Howard has been gone for sometime now, its ok to come outside and smell the roses. In fact, It’s probably safer outside far away from the pink batts that saved australia and rebuilt the infrastructure of the nation.
Just Latham..just Hawke..just Keating..Just Big Kim…
Are people here really suggesting that Rudd has any real supporters inside or outside of the ALP? Still the anyone who can so gutlessly walk away from the “greatest moral challenge of our time” and still expect people to have any respect for anything else it says, does show an ability to live a world apart from the rest.
Still, that is not the point, we are talking about the great myth pollies don’t fib.
Just for something different then, shall we try
April 29.
Which makes Craig Emerson a liar or a completely inept Minister for Small Business and Service Economy.
Sssshhh…Patricia, Howard has been gone for sometime now, its ok to come outside and smell the roses. In fact, It’s probably safer outside far away from the pink batts that saved australia and rebuilt the infrastructure of the nation.
What an odd comment, Oigal! It’s pretty clear from the content of the pome ‘Howard’ is only used as a humorous rhyming reference to Abbott’s history which is where he is and long may he stay. Still, judging by your comments on other threads here you’ll look for any opportunity to have a a nasty dig at opinions expressed which are generally at odds with your own.
Re the smelling of roses I’d suggest that we breathe a fresher air here on this site than in your world where the pursuit of wealth is claimed as your primary concern.
What an odd comment, Oigal! It’s pretty clear from the content of the pome ‘Howard’ is only used as a humorous rhyming reference to Abbott’s history which is where he is and long may he stay. Still, judging by your comments on other threads here you’ll look for any opportunity to have a a nasty dig at opinions expressed which are generally at odds with your own.
Re the smelling of roses I’d suggest that we breathe a fresher air here on this site than in your world where the pursuit of wealth is claimed as your primary concern.