In his press conference tonight, Kevin Rudd threw down a gauntlet to the Labor Party. He made it very difficult for MPs to elect Julia Gillard without her leadership being cruelled from the start. The PM emphasised the fact that those who are trying to oust him are factional and union heavies, and played to his own Labor credentials on the RSPT, reviving an ETS, and holding the line against those who want to go to the hard right on asylum seekers. He also played the ‘unelected leader’ card.
As I said earlier, this challenge, it would seem, has been brought to you by the genius “strategists” who talked Rudd into dropping the ETS in the first place, setting in train his plunge in the polls. The NSW Right, as I’ve said before, knows no other response to bad focus groups than to bring on a leadership challenge. Political courage and leadership is unknown among the apparatchiks and Sussex Street types.
If the ALP dumps Rudd now, it will be the height of political stupidity, and be a demonstration of nothing but craven cowardice in the face of a media/mining industry orchestrated campaign, at a time when the polls indicate, despite a low primary vote, the ALP is still odds on to win the election.
While I’d like to see Julia Gillard become PM, the Labor Party would be insane to dump Rudd now, and nor should they.
If Rudd prevails, heads should roll.
Previously on LP: The events of tonight as they unfolded are documented on this post and thread.
Elsewhere: The Poll Bludger, Bernard Keane.
Update: The full text of Kevin Rudd’s press conference.
Elsewhere: Hoyden About Town, Politically Homeless, Shakira Hussein at The Stump.
Mark, never before have I been moved to agree more thoroughly with anything I’ve seen written on Larvartus Prodeo.
Watching the NSW Right and Julia Gillard work together is like watching two cannibals give each other a ‘souissant-neuf’. And surely it will end in tears.
Mark, never before have I been moved to agree more thoroughly with anything I’ve seen written on Larvartus Prodeo.
Watching the NSW Right and Julia Gillard work together is like watching two cannibals give each other a ‘souissant-neuf’. And surely it will end in tears.
Agree totally Mark – this is just craziness.
Agree totally Mark – this is just craziness.
Absolutely Mark. Unbelievable.
Absolutely Mark. Unbelievable.
A lot of us on this blog have been pooh-poohing the MSM in engaging in a destabilisation of Rudd. I suspect that the faction leaders have been feeding lines to gallery insiders for some time.
Something about an orgy in a hot-tub springs to mind
Didn’t Larvatus Prodeo call for Rudd to go a few weeks ago?
Didn’t Larvatus Prodeo call for Rudd to go a few weeks ago?
And if Rudd prevails he loses Gillard. One of his finest assetts.
Murdoch for the win again.
The only way I can see the ALP getting out of this is if Rudd wins, he keeps Gillard as deputy and they hold a press conference going in hard.
Instead I predict Rudd to lose. Gillard installed as PM.
Gillard torn apart by the opposition, by industry and by the media.
Abbott made PM.
The ALP to be lost in the wilderness for a short time until they are put out of their misery by the New Tories.
Fin.
And if Rudd prevails he loses Gillard. One of his finest assetts.
Murdoch for the win again.
The only way I can see the ALP getting out of this is if Rudd wins, he keeps Gillard as deputy and they hold a press conference going in hard.
Instead I predict Rudd to lose. Gillard installed as PM.
Gillard torn apart by the opposition, by industry and by the media.
Abbott made PM.
The ALP to be lost in the wilderness for a short time until they are put out of their misery by the New Tories.
Fin.
Probably the biggest criticism Rudd has faced is political cowardice, and there are party members who think a move like this will improve Labour’s image? Honestly I cannot fathom how this challenge got off the ground.
Probably the biggest criticism Rudd has faced is political cowardice, and there are party members who think a move like this will improve Labour’s image? Honestly I cannot fathom how this challenge got off the ground.
Mark, although there is truth in what you say about Sussex St, it’s really a case of live by the sword, die by it. It was how Rudd got the leadership in the first place.
Mark, although there is truth in what you say about Sussex St, it’s really a case of live by the sword, die by it. It was how Rudd got the leadership in the first place.
Just proves the libs have no monopoly on stupidity. Even the news of the spill is insane.
Just proves the libs have no monopoly on stupidity. Even the news of the spill is insane.
Oh and some people on the ABC really need to be rewarded with portfolios once the network is sold off.
Oh and some people on the ABC really need to be rewarded with portfolios once the network is sold off.
I’m watching the AWU guy on lateline and he’s pretty good, I’ve got to say.
There’s also a strong implication in all of this that the backflip on ETS was his big mistake, and the implication that they’ll be bringing it back…
I’m watching the AWU guy on lateline and he’s pretty good, I’ve got to say.
There’s also a strong implication in all of this that the backflip on ETS was his big mistake, and the implication that they’ll be bringing it back…
Completly agree Mark
Frankly, I still regard this as an MSM beatup – and one that has encouraged a few opportunist, faceless nobodies from the NSW and Vic right to pursue their own ambitions.
A coup by media- aided by rats.
I for one hope Rudd holds on – I liked his new narrative “I was thrown off course by those who specialise in losing: the factional leaders the NSW Right”.
This is his chance to reframe the government – thrown off course by the same urgers, bludgers, and no-hopers who have now brought us this challenge. Lets face it: this is 100% about Shorten wanting ‘his go’ earlier. Any money on him angling for deputy?
If Rudd does hold – I want to see the political dead strewn over Sussex St. A night of the long knives. A massacre.
If not… I’ll still hail the first female PM, but enjoy it while it lasts: a 3 month reign as a political zombie of the moribund NSW right.
Completly agree Mark
Frankly, I still regard this as an MSM beatup – and one that has encouraged a few opportunist, faceless nobodies from the NSW and Vic right to pursue their own ambitions.
A coup by media- aided by rats.
I for one hope Rudd holds on – I liked his new narrative “I was thrown off course by those who specialise in losing: the factional leaders the NSW Right”.
This is his chance to reframe the government – thrown off course by the same urgers, bludgers, and no-hopers who have now brought us this challenge. Lets face it: this is 100% about Shorten wanting ‘his go’ earlier. Any money on him angling for deputy?
If Rudd does hold – I want to see the political dead strewn over Sussex St. A night of the long knives. A massacre.
If not… I’ll still hail the first female PM, but enjoy it while it lasts: a 3 month reign as a political zombie of the moribund NSW right.
Totally agree Mark. This is unbelievable.
Totally agree Mark. This is unbelievable.
sg
Paul Howes was a mild sceptic on climate change for some time – I’m surprised. If they bring back the CPRS, I’ll bet he is Mr 5% though
I’m planning my holiday ASAP. Because under the new regime I’ll be losing them.
Damn it. I was hoping Workchoices was dead, still at least I had three years to recover from the last time.
I’m planning my holiday ASAP. Because under the new regime I’ll be losing them.
Damn it. I was hoping Workchoices was dead, still at least I had three years to recover from the last time.
@4 – Roger, I think that’s spot on. I’ve suspected, as I’ve said, for some time that the ubiquitous “Labor MPs” journos have been talking to have been right wing apparatchiks like this alliance between Sussex Street and the AWU.
@4 – Roger, I think that’s spot on. I’ve suspected, as I’ve said, for some time that the ubiquitous “Labor MPs” journos have been talking to have been right wing apparatchiks like this alliance between Sussex Street and the AWU.
“we’ve also had an unprecedented campaign against the PM from the media and the mining industry”
Oh FFS Mark – you have a very short memory. The relentless campaign against Howard and replace the Miners with the ACTU and you have the last two years of the Howard reign.
Tony Abbott – if he or anyone close to him reads this blog – small target strategy is working – you should be in TOPP 3 gear for the next week. Don’t make a peep.
“we’ve also had an unprecedented campaign against the PM from the media and the mining industry”
Oh FFS Mark – you have a very short memory. The relentless campaign against Howard and replace the Miners with the ACTU and you have the last two years of the Howard reign.
Tony Abbott – if he or anyone close to him reads this blog – small target strategy is working – you should be in TOPP 3 gear for the next week. Don’t make a peep.
Shoulda promoted Bill in that last reshuffle Kevvie, amongst a long list of other shouldas. Enemies close stuff.
Shoulda promoted Bill in that last reshuffle Kevvie, amongst a long list of other shouldas. Enemies close stuff.
Hey, lets not angle ALL the blame at the ubiquitous ‘Right’. The stupidity on this one crosses factions and state boundaries.
Hey, lets not angle ALL the blame at the ubiquitous ‘Right’. The stupidity on this one crosses factions and state boundaries.
Absolutely gutted. This is the reason why the DLP should have been exterminated ages ago. Moronic in the extreme.
Fire the strategists, stop the spin and get to the real job of representing the people.
Absolutely gutted. This is the reason why the DLP should have been exterminated ages ago. Moronic in the extreme.
Fire the strategists, stop the spin and get to the real job of representing the people.
Do any of you have any personal experience of what Rudd’s leadership style is actually like?
Do any of you appreciate what would have driven Caucus leaders to take such an incredibly drastic step?
This is the deserved end of 2.5 years of an incredibly inept and self-obsessed regime. This isn’t madness, it’s justice.
Do any of you have any personal experience of what Rudd’s leadership style is actually like?
Do any of you appreciate what would have driven Caucus leaders to take such an incredibly drastic step?
This is the deserved end of 2.5 years of an incredibly inept and self-obsessed regime. This isn’t madness, it’s justice.
Well, the ALP at both federal and (especially) state level has plenty of form, going back decades, for handing a woman a poisoned chalice (though I agree that there is always a choice not to accept said chalice) and then facing the future with that woman on a stick, with predictable results. One hopes that Gillard will survive whatever happens for longer than about three months tops, but it doesn’t seem very likely.
Given the large gap between the ‘Julia’s not challenging’ narrative I’ve been hearing all night and the tight-lipped version of events from Rudd, who is clearly being energised if not galvanised by rage, I wonder if we’ll ever hear the details of what did actually happen.
Well, the ALP at both federal and (especially) state level has plenty of form, going back decades, for handing a woman a poisoned chalice (though I agree that there is always a choice not to accept said chalice) and then facing the future with that woman on a stick, with predictable results. One hopes that Gillard will survive whatever happens for longer than about three months tops, but it doesn’t seem very likely.
Given the large gap between the ‘Julia’s not challenging’ narrative I’ve been hearing all night and the tight-lipped version of events from Rudd, who is clearly being energised if not galvanised by rage, I wonder if we’ll ever hear the details of what did actually happen.
Paul Howes loves Julia Gillard, a “deeply thoughtful and impressive woman” and wants to retain the mining super tax.
Paul Howes loves Julia Gillard, a “deeply thoughtful and impressive woman” and wants to retain the mining super tax.
Razor…there is a media campaign against Rudd. You know what I would do if I was you? Gloat. Gloat often. Gloat hard. Oh and keep running the line the media is leftist. Because in my experience there’s nothing funnier than an upset lefty.
I’d defend us on the left but…shit…my wife is challenging me for use of the interwebs and I might just have to fold.
Razor…there is a media campaign against Rudd. You know what I would do if I was you? Gloat. Gloat often. Gloat hard. Oh and keep running the line the media is leftist. Because in my experience there’s nothing funnier than an upset lefty.
I’d defend us on the left but…shit…my wife is challenging me for use of the interwebs and I might just have to fold.
Mushroom – quit eating the magic ones – you are talking about the ALP here.
Mushroom – quit eating the magic ones – you are talking about the ALP here.
Kevin Reece Vs Julia Keneally.
Hard act for Mr Rudd – trying to overcome the faction bosses.
All hail Sussex Street!
Long Live the Numbers Men.( Sorry, People!)
Kevin Reece Vs Julia Keneally.
Hard act for Mr Rudd – trying to overcome the faction bosses.
All hail Sussex Street!
Long Live the Numbers Men.( Sorry, People!)
“He also played the ‘unelected leader’ card.”
A potent card indeed, which is why Gillard will seek an electoral mandate pronto.
The idea that Rudd could hold on is laughable. His own sub-faction, the Queensland AWU Right, has deserted him. His broader faction, the Right, has deserted him. The Left will line up behind Gillard. He has no personal support except apparently Simon Crean.
It’s true, he should never have listened to NSW Right on matters of policy. But he did. That was his error of judgment, and it has cost him dearly. He didn’t have to make a point of lording it over everybody in his own party when he was riding high. But he did. The result? No one wants a bar of him when the going gets tough.
He should have heeded the old saying: be careful how you treat people when you pass them on the way up, because you’re going to meet them on the way down.
“He also played the ‘unelected leader’ card.”
A potent card indeed, which is why Gillard will seek an electoral mandate pronto.
The idea that Rudd could hold on is laughable. His own sub-faction, the Queensland AWU Right, has deserted him. His broader faction, the Right, has deserted him. The Left will line up behind Gillard. He has no personal support except apparently Simon Crean.
It’s true, he should never have listened to NSW Right on matters of policy. But he did. That was his error of judgment, and it has cost him dearly. He didn’t have to make a point of lording it over everybody in his own party when he was riding high. But he did. The result? No one wants a bar of him when the going gets tough.
He should have heeded the old saying: be careful how you treat people when you pass them on the way up, because you’re going to meet them on the way down.
Ban Ki-moon better start doing the numbers.
Ban Ki-moon better start doing the numbers.
just watching tony garrett on lateline here in Japan, he’s tearing strips off Tony Jones.
just watching tony garrett on lateline here in Japan, he’s tearing strips off Tony Jones.
Seems mad, but on the plus side – the reset button has been pressed. all the oxygen has been taken out every other story. a quick result, a DD trigger and away we go? (not sure a trigger can be engineered tomorrow), honeymoon and campaign in one, saves time.
a legion of otherwise unengaged viewers will not have their world cup spoiled and will greet the new leader of the ALP with the biggest collective caffeine buzz since Hawkie won us that boat race;)
Seems mad, but on the plus side – the reset button has been pressed. all the oxygen has been taken out every other story. a quick result, a DD trigger and away we go? (not sure a trigger can be engineered tomorrow), honeymoon and campaign in one, saves time.
a legion of otherwise unengaged viewers will not have their world cup spoiled and will greet the new leader of the ALP with the biggest collective caffeine buzz since Hawkie won us that boat race;)
@21 – I heard one story of Rudd attending (uninvited and unrequired) a Sunday morning meeting with some consultants and taking a chap’s mobile telephone off him and changing the text message received setting because he didn’t want to hear it. Complete control freak.
@21 – I heard one story of Rudd attending (uninvited and unrequired) a Sunday morning meeting with some consultants and taking a chap’s mobile telephone off him and changing the text message received setting because he didn’t want to hear it. Complete control freak.
Please drop this rubbish of Rudd being talked into anything. Dropping the CPRS was his decision. The decision was supported by his key advisers. He is the PM FFS.
Please drop this rubbish of Rudd being talked into anything. Dropping the CPRS was his decision. The decision was supported by his key advisers. He is the PM FFS.
This has nothing to do with electoral strategies. This has so much gilt edged downside it can never float. The starter will be the KK comparison, puppet of the factions and union bosses. The Libs will crow “I told you so” and the the ALP will be in such disarray as they try to grab everything that isn’t nailed down before they are tossed out that they’ll become incoherent.
Of course if they hadn’t decided on the magic bean solution then maybe they could have convinced the people and the authors of Newspoll that they do have some good ideas, at least better than the crap that Abbott has. But no, let’s just put a single round in the chamber and see if we’re lucky enough not to blow our heads off. F*ck all insiders.
This has nothing to do with electoral strategies. This has so much gilt edged downside it can never float. The starter will be the KK comparison, puppet of the factions and union bosses. The Libs will crow “I told you so” and the the ALP will be in such disarray as they try to grab everything that isn’t nailed down before they are tossed out that they’ll become incoherent.
Of course if they hadn’t decided on the magic bean solution then maybe they could have convinced the people and the authors of Newspoll that they do have some good ideas, at least better than the crap that Abbott has. But no, let’s just put a single round in the chamber and see if we’re lucky enough not to blow our heads off. F*ck all insiders.
There needs to be an election stat in order to get Tony Abbott into the big chair by Christmas.
And yes. The right can laugh at us pathetic little turds. We were impudent enough to mock Howard. Abbott will make Howard seem like Whitlam in comparison.
At least the Lib’s will keep some ALP policy. All that shitty internet censorship stuff for a start.
There needs to be an election stat in order to get Tony Abbott into the big chair by Christmas.
And yes. The right can laugh at us pathetic little turds. We were impudent enough to mock Howard. Abbott will make Howard seem like Whitlam in comparison.
At least the Lib’s will keep some ALP policy. All that shitty internet censorship stuff for a start.
Well, free kick for the Greens, I’d say. We’re now talking about a serious Green vote surge – if I were Tanner Id be looking for a new seat.
Well, free kick for the Greens, I’d say. We’re now talking about a serious Green vote surge – if I were Tanner Id be looking for a new seat.
@30 – they’ve got a few triggers already in the holster if they want.
@30 – they’ve got a few triggers already in the holster if they want.
@27 – Sam, Rudd is not a member of the Queensland AWU but of the Old Guard, Labor Unity, Beattie’s faction.
And I very much doubt the NSW Left will be supporting Gillard.
Or a fair whack of the Victorian Left, quite possibly.
@27 – Sam, Rudd is not a member of the Queensland AWU but of the Old Guard, Labor Unity, Beattie’s faction.
And I very much doubt the NSW Left will be supporting Gillard.
Or a fair whack of the Victorian Left, quite possibly.
Lefty@35: I dunno, surely they can’t do this without resurrecting the ETS and try to get back the Green vote? Hope you’re right though.
Lefty@35: I dunno, surely they can’t do this without resurrecting the ETS and try to get back the Green vote? Hope you’re right though.
The criticism of Gillard here and elsewhere is unwarranted. She’s been put in an impossible position. The super-geniusus from the backrooms have come up with a plan – remove Rudd one way or another – and have sought her out. In circumstances where Rudd’s leadership is terminal, a fact which is simply out of her control, she doesn’t really have any choice but to take on the role (assuming she believes she can do the job well, which she does). There is no real element of betrayal here.
BBB
The criticism of Gillard here and elsewhere is unwarranted. She’s been put in an impossible position. The super-geniusus from the backrooms have come up with a plan – remove Rudd one way or another – and have sought her out. In circumstances where Rudd’s leadership is terminal, a fact which is simply out of her control, she doesn’t really have any choice but to take on the role (assuming she believes she can do the job well, which she does). There is no real element of betrayal here.
BBB
139@Tosca at last thread
Sounds like he’s on his deathbed! I guess Tony Abbott will be offering extreme unction. As for the environment, we can kiss goodbye to doing anything about climate change for a long long time (heartfelt sigh). Thanks muchly Greens…
139@Tosca at last thread
Sounds like he’s on his deathbed! I guess Tony Abbott will be offering extreme unction. As for the environment, we can kiss goodbye to doing anything about climate change for a long long time (heartfelt sigh). Thanks muchly Greens…
@39 – I don’t see that, BBB.
She must know, as has been said already on this thread, that she’ll get the Kristina Keneally “puppet of the factions” treatment.
And Paul Howes’ exposition of the “Rudd was disloyal to Gillard case” just exposed its stupidity.
And I certainly wouldn’t be counting on a favourable ‘media narrative’ for all that long.
@39 – I don’t see that, BBB.
She must know, as has been said already on this thread, that she’ll get the Kristina Keneally “puppet of the factions” treatment.
And Paul Howes’ exposition of the “Rudd was disloyal to Gillard case” just exposed its stupidity.
And I certainly wouldn’t be counting on a favourable ‘media narrative’ for all that long.
Yer spot on Mark. The media were finally beginning to focus on Abbott again & his small target strategy. Mark Arbib & the NSW Right are a bloody bunch of “rats” and a disgrace.
My feeling was that Rudd had just weathered the media sh*tstorm & was coming out the other end. We could see THE LIGHT. The Labor achievements were just starting to be realised by the populace. Even many of the media recognised that he was staying.
And what do these “kneejerk”, “cowardly” machine men do?…they attempt to DISMISS our Prime Minister.
After all the TRAUMA that the ALP went thru after the dismissal of Gough they then go and attempt to assassinate their own leader who helped get this country thru one of the worst & most damaging economic waves to hit global shores…it’s INSANE!.
Going by the Senate investigation on the roof insulation that I saw it was Mark Arbib that was one of the main characters involved w/ the rollout.
I mean who hell do this right-wing robots think they are?
Don’t tell me…a deal has been done w/ the mining barons & media moguls in order to pave the way for Julia? Is this part of the reason we got an ASSAULT on Kevin the past few months from so many parts of the media?
How tragic & disgraceful if that has transpired.
My wife really digs Julia Gillard, but she wrote to our local member tonite to express her disgust at this attempted DISMISSAL.
Our Prime Minister deserves better.
And it wouldn’t surprise me if these idiots have managed to hand the election to Tony Abbott due to their obvious & repeated LACK OF SPINE.
SHAME!!!
N’
Yer spot on Mark. The media were finally beginning to focus on Abbott again & his small target strategy. Mark Arbib & the NSW Right are a bloody bunch of “rats” and a disgrace.
My feeling was that Rudd had just weathered the media sh*tstorm & was coming out the other end. We could see THE LIGHT. The Labor achievements were just starting to be realised by the populace. Even many of the media recognised that he was staying.
And what do these “kneejerk”, “cowardly” machine men do?…they attempt to DISMISS our Prime Minister.
After all the TRAUMA that the ALP went thru after the dismissal of Gough they then go and attempt to assassinate their own leader who helped get this country thru one of the worst & most damaging economic waves to hit global shores…it’s INSANE!.
Going by the Senate investigation on the roof insulation that I saw it was Mark Arbib that was one of the main characters involved w/ the rollout.
I mean who hell do this right-wing robots think they are?
Don’t tell me…a deal has been done w/ the mining barons & media moguls in order to pave the way for Julia? Is this part of the reason we got an ASSAULT on Kevin the past few months from so many parts of the media?
How tragic & disgraceful if that has transpired.
My wife really digs Julia Gillard, but she wrote to our local member tonite to express her disgust at this attempted DISMISSAL.
Our Prime Minister deserves better.
And it wouldn’t surprise me if these idiots have managed to hand the election to Tony Abbott due to their obvious & repeated LACK OF SPINE.
SHAME!!!
N’
BBB @ 39. I never thought I’d say this but I agree.
However that’s not how the media is going to spin it. And hey I’ve already seen the reaction in my wife. The sweet double shot for the Libs. “What a bitch!” twined with “I’m voting informal.”
The right have suceeded in getting my support on one thing though.
They can sell the ABC. I’m done with it.
(And no, I didn’t want the ABC to be like Glee club for Rudd…just to be independent like they used to be without fear. If they think that their stance is going to save them from the Tory purge they have a surprise in store.)
BBB @ 39. I never thought I’d say this but I agree.
However that’s not how the media is going to spin it. And hey I’ve already seen the reaction in my wife. The sweet double shot for the Libs. “What a bitch!” twined with “I’m voting informal.”
The right have suceeded in getting my support on one thing though.
They can sell the ABC. I’m done with it.
(And no, I didn’t want the ABC to be like Glee club for Rudd…just to be independent like they used to be without fear. If they think that their stance is going to save them from the Tory purge they have a surprise in store.)
Mark, Martin Ferguson’s crowd will not be supporting Rudd. She would not have bothered if it were only elements of the Right lining up behind her.
Look on the bright side. An Abbott Government will be deeply, hugely entertaining.
Mark, Martin Ferguson’s crowd will not be supporting Rudd. She would not have bothered if it were only elements of the Right lining up behind her.
Look on the bright side. An Abbott Government will be deeply, hugely entertaining.
Who knows… I feel sad for him on one level, on another the policies he’s driven so centrally have led to me leaving my party of choice after 15 years, so it’s hard to find tears.
Whether it’s good for Labor, I see all your points, I also see that Gillard is extremely effective as an orator and debator, and I think she is utterly ruthless, both of which may lead her to take this chance and turn it around.
The asylum comments by Rudd interested me- could they possibly be considering moving to the right on the issue? How- by shooting them?? I trust that was just a ruse, but I guess we’ll see…. after all, it’d be astonishing if Rudd survives this, realistically.
Who knows… I feel sad for him on one level, on another the policies he’s driven so centrally have led to me leaving my party of choice after 15 years, so it’s hard to find tears.
Whether it’s good for Labor, I see all your points, I also see that Gillard is extremely effective as an orator and debator, and I think she is utterly ruthless, both of which may lead her to take this chance and turn it around.
The asylum comments by Rudd interested me- could they possibly be considering moving to the right on the issue? How- by shooting them?? I trust that was just a ruse, but I guess we’ll see…. after all, it’d be astonishing if Rudd survives this, realistically.
Rockstar @38 – my understanding is that this has been brought on by the same team at the NSW Right that convinced Rudd to delay the ETS.
So I wouldnt hold your breath.
Hope they see sense and bring a major policy platform back – preferably with some actual cuts to CO2 this time, and no imaginary ‘clean coal invented at this point’ premises.
Rockstar @38 – my understanding is that this has been brought on by the same team at the NSW Right that convinced Rudd to delay the ETS.
So I wouldnt hold your breath.
Hope they see sense and bring a major policy platform back – preferably with some actual cuts to CO2 this time, and no imaginary ‘clean coal invented at this point’ premises.
Nasking you’re wrong. This isn’t a dismissal of the PM. It’s a dismissal of the ALP.
We voted the ‘wrong’ way before.
Just look at this as a market correction.
Literally.
Nasking you’re wrong. This isn’t a dismissal of the PM. It’s a dismissal of the ALP.
We voted the ‘wrong’ way before.
Just look at this as a market correction.
Literally.
Labor MPs are already starting to twitter how they’ll vote:
http://twitter.com/KateLundy/status/16846709165
Labor MPs are already starting to twitter how they’ll vote:
http://twitter.com/KateLundy/status/16846709165
This is a great outcome.
Gillard will take over, beat the Coalition handsomely at the election, and get rid of the RSPT.
Life couldn’t be better. We get rid of the spinmeister, we get rid of the worst piece of public policy since Rex Connor (RSPT), we avoid Abbott as PM, and we get the first female PM ever in Australia!
All hail Julia!
This is a great outcome.
Gillard will take over, beat the Coalition handsomely at the election, and get rid of the RSPT.
Life couldn’t be better. We get rid of the spinmeister, we get rid of the worst piece of public policy since Rex Connor (RSPT), we avoid Abbott as PM, and we get the first female PM ever in Australia!
All hail Julia!
@44 – LO, sure.
But it’s wrong to suggest the left as a whole will fall into line behind her. Albanese’s mob certainly won’t, and I’d be surprised too if Tanner backs her.
@44 – LO, sure.
But it’s wrong to suggest the left as a whole will fall into line behind her. Albanese’s mob certainly won’t, and I’d be surprised too if Tanner backs her.
LO,
Can you leave off the insider smugness for just a nanosecond? You are part of the problem.
LO,
Can you leave off the insider smugness for just a nanosecond? You are part of the problem.
Just imagine the look on Abbott’s face right now. I feel a little sick!
Just imagine the look on Abbott’s face right now. I feel a little sick!
Fuck. Might as well shoot myself.
Fuck. Might as well shoot myself.
Also this morning I woke up and Radio National talked about ALP policies for the first time in weeks, rather than opinion polls or what have you. And Garret was on Lateline with what is actually a big Australian win at the international whaling commission and got barely any time to talk about it.
The unbelievable idiocy of the right factions is astounding. How does a PM Gillard get any oxygen in the next three or four months? She can’t have an August election, she needs at least one full parliamentary session in front of the dispatch box to put her stamp of authority on the job. But that’s all she’ll get! It’s just insanity.
Also this morning I woke up and Radio National talked about ALP policies for the first time in weeks, rather than opinion polls or what have you. And Garret was on Lateline with what is actually a big Australian win at the international whaling commission and got barely any time to talk about it.
The unbelievable idiocy of the right factions is astounding. How does a PM Gillard get any oxygen in the next three or four months? She can’t have an August election, she needs at least one full parliamentary session in front of the dispatch box to put her stamp of authority on the job. But that’s all she’ll get! It’s just insanity.
What are you all going on about?
Julia is cleverer.
Julia is nicer.
Julia has better judgement.
Julia doesn’t panic.
Julia takes people with her.
Julia communicates in language people can understand.
Julia is in politics to make a difference and not just as part of a personal
ego trip.
Julia was always going to make a much better PM.
Fair enough, when Kevin had rock star popularity, you can understand why he was made leader (although I can 100% assure you that every single caucus member had to hold their nose when they voted for him: he’s an extremely hard person to tolerate, let alone like).
But he ain’t popular any more and seems to be becoming less so by the day. So why wouldn’t they dump him and go for Julia? I can hardly believe it’s happening, but it’s soooooooo the way to go.
What are you all going on about?
Julia is cleverer.
Julia is nicer.
Julia has better judgement.
Julia doesn’t panic.
Julia takes people with her.
Julia communicates in language people can understand.
Julia is in politics to make a difference and not just as part of a personal
ego trip.
Julia was always going to make a much better PM.
Fair enough, when Kevin had rock star popularity, you can understand why he was made leader (although I can 100% assure you that every single caucus member had to hold their nose when they voted for him: he’s an extremely hard person to tolerate, let alone like).
But he ain’t popular any more and seems to be becoming less so by the day. So why wouldn’t they dump him and go for Julia? I can hardly believe it’s happening, but it’s soooooooo the way to go.
Fuck. Might as well shoot myself.
My sentiments exactly, David.
Fuck. Might as well shoot myself.
My sentiments exactly, David.
I hope someone taps Rudd on the shoulder and remind him that Julia is every bit as much elected as he is, and if she wins a leadership ballot she’s every bit elected to PM as he is. I won’t miss his presidentialism and the childish display tonight doesn’t do him any favours in my mind.
I hope someone taps Rudd on the shoulder and remind him that Julia is every bit as much elected as he is, and if she wins a leadership ballot she’s every bit elected to PM as he is. I won’t miss his presidentialism and the childish display tonight doesn’t do him any favours in my mind.
Andrew @ 50,
You are a delusional fool. Two words – ‘Mark Latham’.
Andrew @ 50,
You are a delusional fool. Two words – ‘Mark Latham’.
Andrew. Keep gloating.
Sir.
And for the rest of us who want a preview of the media for the next three months.
If Julia releases a left wing agenda.
“Julia a puppet of the union left.”
And the opposite?
“Julia a puppet of the factional right.”
Andrew. Keep gloating.
Sir.
And for the rest of us who want a preview of the media for the next three months.
If Julia releases a left wing agenda.
“Julia a puppet of the union left.”
And the opposite?
“Julia a puppet of the factional right.”
LO,
Can you leave off the insider smugness for just a nanosecond?
I doubt it – it’s built into the genes, like the innate stupidity of the NSW and whoever else right.
And they call this friggin’ country a democracy? What a joke.
LO,
Can you leave off the insider smugness for just a nanosecond?
I doubt it – it’s built into the genes, like the innate stupidity of the NSW and whoever else right.
And they call this friggin’ country a democracy? What a joke.
By that logic, Rockstar, Abbott’s “every bit as elected” as John Howard was.
With respect, it just aint so.
By that logic, Rockstar, Abbott’s “every bit as elected” as John Howard was.
With respect, it just aint so.
That’s just Rudd throwing bones to the party’s left – a true sign that he’s given up on appealing to the party’s right.
That’s just Rudd throwing bones to the party’s left – a true sign that he’s given up on appealing to the party’s right.
LO, Andrew and Razor as far as I’m concerned can gloat as much as they want. It’s the rest of us who’ve been living in lala left wing land thinking that a PM could thumb his nose at his betters in business and the media and get away with it.
LO, Andrew and Razor as far as I’m concerned can gloat as much as they want. It’s the rest of us who’ve been living in lala left wing land thinking that a PM could thumb his nose at his betters in business and the media and get away with it.
I withdraw my comment about this being as good as the last gulf war – that was bad guys being smoked by good guys.
This is more like watching Serbian T-79s being brewed up by Bosnians in 1991.
I withdraw my comment about this being as good as the last gulf war – that was bad guys being smoked by good guys.
This is more like watching Serbian T-79s being brewed up by Bosnians in 1991.
Elsewhere: The Poll Bludger, Bernard Keane.
Elsewhere: The Poll Bludger, Bernard Keane.
“It’s the rest of us who’ve been living in lala left wing land thinking that a PM could thumb his nose at his betters in business and the media and get away with it.”
Im concerned about that too, Tssk. As far as Im concerned, a few ambitious rats have just facilitated a coup by media and business.
I think the effect on Australian democracy could well be terminal if they are allowed to get away with it tomorrow.
“It’s the rest of us who’ve been living in lala left wing land thinking that a PM could thumb his nose at his betters in business and the media and get away with it.”
Im concerned about that too, Tssk. As far as Im concerned, a few ambitious rats have just facilitated a coup by media and business.
I think the effect on Australian democracy could well be terminal if they are allowed to get away with it tomorrow.
Well, I’ll resist. It’s a tough time for lefties. Hopefully we all get a better government out of this.
Well, I’ll resist. It’s a tough time for lefties. Hopefully we all get a better government out of this.
What on earth is this revisionist nonsense about the NSW Right being behind the ridiculous backdown on the ETS (now shaping as a rival to the Khemlani loans and the election of Billy McMahon as party leader as being voted the stupidest decision in the history of Australian politics)? Was the NSW Right even consulted? Was anyone outside the PM’s Office?
I don’t think so.
What on earth is this revisionist nonsense about the NSW Right being behind the ridiculous backdown on the ETS (now shaping as a rival to the Khemlani loans and the election of Billy McMahon as party leader as being voted the stupidest decision in the history of Australian politics)? Was the NSW Right even consulted? Was anyone outside the PM’s Office?
I don’t think so.
@49
Gee nice one Kate. Obviously the braincell is quite up to anything other than “mission statement” level drivel. “Inspiring PM” indeed. So these turds actually think they’re going to sail through on Gillard’s coattails? Give me a break. Don’t they understand that they’ve just upped the difficulty level by a factor of at least 4?
@49
Gee nice one Kate. Obviously the braincell is quite up to anything other than “mission statement” level drivel. “Inspiring PM” indeed. So these turds actually think they’re going to sail through on Gillard’s coattails? Give me a break. Don’t they understand that they’ve just upped the difficulty level by a factor of at least 4?
Who is gloating? I don’t think Gillard should have challenged before the election, despite my reservations about Rudd’s leadership. I’m just giving you some information on what some parts of the party are thinking or are likely to do. Apologies if it offends your sensibilities.
Who is gloating? I don’t think Gillard should have challenged before the election, despite my reservations about Rudd’s leadership. I’m just giving you some information on what some parts of the party are thinking or are likely to do. Apologies if it offends your sensibilities.
Obviously I meant “Obviously the braincell isn’t”
Obviously I meant “Obviously the braincell isn’t”
Looks like Twiggy and his mates will have their change of government and a scuttled RSPT and a rise in the GST because Labor’s toast.
Looks like Twiggy and his mates will have their change of government and a scuttled RSPT and a rise in the GST because Labor’s toast.
Get away with it Lefty E? They’ve done it!
Useful idiots indeed.
Get away with it Lefty E? They’ve done it!
Useful idiots indeed.
@71
I’ll tell you what my section of the party will do: vote informal.
My branch will not support Julia Gillard, and neither will the majority of the Labor base in Queensland.
@71
I’ll tell you what my section of the party will do: vote informal.
My branch will not support Julia Gillard, and neither will the majority of the Labor base in Queensland.
@69 – http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/05/17/the-ets-election-we-never-had/
@69 – http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/05/17/the-ets-election-we-never-had/
Amazing! Seems the factional heavies know nothing of political or Labor history. The Mumble post Mark featured earlier summed it up. The primary vote slump was a bit confusing, but every other indicator suggested they’d get back comfortably under Rudd. A few seats might go here or there, but nothing to threaten them. And the huge advantage of incumbency almost guarantees a rally once polls are called.
You summed it up well, Mark. Tne NSW Right knows nothing, except the hope that might spring from a leadership change. Reminds me a bit of commercial TV station management. Whenever ratings slumped, just about everyone would be sacked and an American brought in.
I’d expect Rudd to survive, but I’m saddened that Julia might be temporarily damaged by this challenge. She’s been one of the ablest ministers.
The one positive is what Lefty E alluded to. In his press conference Rudd said he wasn’t going to lurch to the Right on asylum seekers, and that he would push on with an ETS. {Rudd sounded a lot firmer and more positive than he’s shown recently.) These are two things needed and will hope show the backbone and principle that has been missing in the last few months. It’s probably the price of stitching up the Left’s votes, but it will also help in the wider community.
Amazing! Seems the factional heavies know nothing of political or Labor history. The Mumble post Mark featured earlier summed it up. The primary vote slump was a bit confusing, but every other indicator suggested they’d get back comfortably under Rudd. A few seats might go here or there, but nothing to threaten them. And the huge advantage of incumbency almost guarantees a rally once polls are called.
You summed it up well, Mark. Tne NSW Right knows nothing, except the hope that might spring from a leadership change. Reminds me a bit of commercial TV station management. Whenever ratings slumped, just about everyone would be sacked and an American brought in.
I’d expect Rudd to survive, but I’m saddened that Julia might be temporarily damaged by this challenge. She’s been one of the ablest ministers.
The one positive is what Lefty E alluded to. In his press conference Rudd said he wasn’t going to lurch to the Right on asylum seekers, and that he would push on with an ETS. {Rudd sounded a lot firmer and more positive than he’s shown recently.) These are two things needed and will hope show the backbone and principle that has been missing in the last few months. It’s probably the price of stitching up the Left’s votes, but it will also help in the wider community.
Fuck. Might as well shoot myself.
I feel the same way. But heck and damn it all – why go out alone, David? Let’s form a little list. And they’ll none of ‘em be missed.
The above contains an obvious Gilbert and Sullivan reference, for the musical and irony impaired.
Fuck. Might as well shoot myself.
I feel the same way. But heck and damn it all – why go out alone, David? Let’s form a little list. And they’ll none of ‘em be missed.
The above contains an obvious Gilbert and Sullivan reference, for the musical and irony impaired.
Tssk – I’m not gloating…. I’m just really glad that we’re moving on from the failed Rudd experience. I also really genuinely hope that Gillard wins the next election (provided she drops the RSPT of course). The thought of Abbott/Bishop/Robb/Joyce/Hockey etc becoming our next cabinet fills me with dread.
Rudd had so much promise…. but if there’s one thing the Libs have got right recently is their Kevin OLemon ad…. what a shame we won’t see that in the campaign now.
Rudd will go down in history as one of the worst PMs Australia has ever had – he’s up in the Whitlam bracket. Although at least Whitlan genuinely believed in his own crap. Rudd’s problem is that he doesn’t believe in anything except getting power for its own sake. The greatest moral challenge of Kevin Rudd’s time is getting relected PM.
Tssk – I’m not gloating…. I’m just really glad that we’re moving on from the failed Rudd experience. I also really genuinely hope that Gillard wins the next election (provided she drops the RSPT of course). The thought of Abbott/Bishop/Robb/Joyce/Hockey etc becoming our next cabinet fills me with dread.
Rudd had so much promise…. but if there’s one thing the Libs have got right recently is their Kevin OLemon ad…. what a shame we won’t see that in the campaign now.
Rudd will go down in history as one of the worst PMs Australia has ever had – he’s up in the Whitlam bracket. Although at least Whitlan genuinely believed in his own crap. Rudd’s problem is that he doesn’t believe in anything except getting power for its own sake. The greatest moral challenge of Kevin Rudd’s time is getting relected PM.
If Julia Gillard is elected tomorrow I will have to vote informal too. I cannot believe these NSW right morons. Kevin Rudd is held in very high regard in Brisbane as a brilliant local member ( I used to be in his electorate until 2007). He is known for integrity and sincerity. I am appalled. My family has voted Labor in Queensland for four generations. This will be very hard to sell. I cannot vote for a Labor Party which will do this to the Prime Minister. I will not be voting Green because of their opportunism and the others are unspeakable.
If Julia Gillard is elected tomorrow I will have to vote informal too. I cannot believe these NSW right morons. Kevin Rudd is held in very high regard in Brisbane as a brilliant local member ( I used to be in his electorate until 2007). He is known for integrity and sincerity. I am appalled. My family has voted Labor in Queensland for four generations. This will be very hard to sell. I cannot vote for a Labor Party which will do this to the Prime Minister. I will not be voting Green because of their opportunism and the others are unspeakable.
Lady Macbeth:
Glamis thou art, and Cawdor, and shalt be
What thou art promis’d. Yet do I fear thy nature,
It is too full o’ th’ milk of human kindness
To catch the nearest way.
Really, Julia. Have you not learnt lessons from the Bard himself????
This is not how I envisioned the first female PM!!!!!!!
Even though I want a female PM, not like this…
Just when I thought the Kevin Rudd team were awesome and that the media were not going to be the ones to be listened to over the people!!!!
I am ashamed and will not vote for a female PM under these circumstances! History will look upon it like ‘a damned spot’.
Lady Macbeth:
Glamis thou art, and Cawdor, and shalt be
What thou art promis’d. Yet do I fear thy nature,
It is too full o’ th’ milk of human kindness
To catch the nearest way.
Really, Julia. Have you not learnt lessons from the Bard himself????
This is not how I envisioned the first female PM!!!!!!!
Even though I want a female PM, not like this…
Just when I thought the Kevin Rudd team were awesome and that the media were not going to be the ones to be listened to over the people!!!!
I am ashamed and will not vote for a female PM under these circumstances! History will look upon it like ‘a damned spot’.
Alea iacta est. The die is cast.
Rudd has nailed his colours to the mast.
Many here are low and woebegone
As he prepares to cross his Rubicon.
These words, echoes of an empire past,
Remind us; all passes, nothing lasts.
Yesterday he was the man of the hour
Held high office and exercised power.
Tomorrow much to our and his chagrin
It could be gone – gone with the wind.
Ah, but remember what Scarlett O’Hara would say,
‘Tomorrow is another day!’
Alea iacta est. The die is cast.
Rudd has nailed his colours to the mast.
Many here are low and woebegone
As he prepares to cross his Rubicon.
These words, echoes of an empire past,
Remind us; all passes, nothing lasts.
Yesterday he was the man of the hour
Held high office and exercised power.
Tomorrow much to our and his chagrin
It could be gone – gone with the wind.
Ah, but remember what Scarlett O’Hara would say,
‘Tomorrow is another day!’
New post:
http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/the-attempted-dismissal-of-our-prime-minister/
N’
New post:
http://cafewhispers.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/the-attempted-dismissal-of-our-prime-minister/
N’
Youre probably right, Tssk – its fair to assume tomorrow is now a mere formality.
I hope it doesnt cost the next election – which I am convinced Rudd would have won.
If Gillard loses it from here – its the wilderness, and the unforgiving pen of labor history.
Youre probably right, Tssk – its fair to assume tomorrow is now a mere formality.
I hope it doesnt cost the next election – which I am convinced Rudd would have won.
If Gillard loses it from here – its the wilderness, and the unforgiving pen of labor history.
I thought Rudd looked pathetic in the press conference. The stuff about the Australian people putting him there was embarassingly egotistical: he’s the leader of a parliamentary party not the US President. The suggestion that he would now do another backflip on the ETS was ludicrous. What he said about asylum seekers made no sense whatsoever to me.
The rest of what he said was basically “it’s all been very difficult, I’ve done my best, don’t blame me.
I just don’t get what some of you see in the guy
I thought Rudd looked pathetic in the press conference. The stuff about the Australian people putting him there was embarassingly egotistical: he’s the leader of a parliamentary party not the US President. The suggestion that he would now do another backflip on the ETS was ludicrous. What he said about asylum seekers made no sense whatsoever to me.
The rest of what he said was basically “it’s all been very difficult, I’ve done my best, don’t blame me.
I just don’t get what some of you see in the guy
@85
Up, your arse, cock jockey.
@85
Up, your arse, cock jockey.
Thanks Pat WA..’spose I could go back to SA and vote family in Mayo..Nah, like the rest I’ll try and get some sleep and wait to see what else can be done to wreck the dream.
Thanks Pat WA..’spose I could go back to SA and vote family in Mayo..Nah, like the rest I’ll try and get some sleep and wait to see what else can be done to wreck the dream.
Gillard is much better at almost all political skills. He is a great chair of meetings, masters a brief, slays in QT and has convictions.
BTW Mark – I don’t buy the idea that the election is in KR back pocket now. Gillard will have at least as much chance. Gillard is about the only good thing is that Government politically right now. On the back bench they’ll look terribly meak and mild. They have to roll Rudd simply to avoid this now. Rudd is now expendable, Gillard is not.
Gillard is much better at almost all political skills. He is a great chair of meetings, masters a brief, slays in QT and has convictions.
BTW Mark – I don’t buy the idea that the election is in KR back pocket now. Gillard will have at least as much chance. Gillard is about the only good thing is that Government politically right now. On the back bench they’ll look terribly meak and mild. They have to roll Rudd simply to avoid this now. Rudd is now expendable, Gillard is not.
Julia’ll blitz Abbott. Can’t wait.
Julia’ll blitz Abbott. Can’t wait.
@86 – Please comment civilly.
@86 – Please comment civilly.
I’ll pay that one.
Do we really have to wait ’til morning for
WhitlamDudd to be putsched?Incompetent PM gets dumped by his own party. BFD. It’s not the end of democracy; it’s the end (hopefully) of an experiment gone clusterfucktastically wrong. Oh, yeah, and it’s the meeja’s fault for reporting on his incompetence. Or something.
I’m just disappointed I won’t get the chance to vote out the fuckwit. OTOH, the compensation is that I may not have to vote for Abbott after all. Swings and roundabouts.
I’ll pay that one.
Do we really have to wait ’til morning for
WhitlamDudd to be putsched?Incompetent PM gets dumped by his own party. BFD. It’s not the end of democracy; it’s the end (hopefully) of an experiment gone clusterfucktastically wrong. Oh, yeah, and it’s the meeja’s fault for reporting on his incompetence. Or something.
I’m just disappointed I won’t get the chance to vote out the fuckwit. OTOH, the compensation is that I may not have to vote for Abbott after all. Swings and roundabouts.
And Lefty, if she wins comfortably? If she demonstrates an ability to cogently explain Labor’s policies? If she consults with the caucus and the cabinet more? If fewer mistakes are made because she is more disciplined and better organised?
And Lefty, if she wins comfortably? If she demonstrates an ability to cogently explain Labor’s policies? If she consults with the caucus and the cabinet more? If fewer mistakes are made because she is more disciplined and better organised?
wbb. The media will blitz Julia. She can’t win with Lib voters. She’ll lose some of the sexist ALP voters.
And a lot of ALP voters are just going to vote informal now handing the fucking mandate to Tony Abbott.
wbb. The media will blitz Julia. She can’t win with Lib voters. She’ll lose some of the sexist ALP voters.
And a lot of ALP voters are just going to vote informal now handing the fucking mandate to Tony Abbott.
I wanted a female PM but not like this
I hope for the best but fear the worst
I wanted a female PM but not like this
I hope for the best but fear the worst
Paul Howes would be quite at home writing for ‘National Review Online’. The fact that he is apparently an influential Labor Party figure tells you pretty much all you need to know about the intellectual integrity of the 21st century ALP.
See also Steve Conroy and the whole sleazy rancid NSW ALP right.
I wrote an hour or two ago on the other thread that both of our major political parties are dysfunctional. The dangers to our system of governance are obvious and serious. All the people who are leaping about in partisan glee at the latest developments ought to pause for some sober reflection. Do they truly believe that Abbott’s mob of second-rate nonentities is going to be a good government? Likewise the smug Gillard supporters and the ALP.
Democratic governance in Australia, the USA and Great Britain is under considerable strain. People who chortle about petty tribal victories might want to contemplate the long-term implications of what has happened in these countries in recent years.
Paul Howes would be quite at home writing for ‘National Review Online’. The fact that he is apparently an influential Labor Party figure tells you pretty much all you need to know about the intellectual integrity of the 21st century ALP.
See also Steve Conroy and the whole sleazy rancid NSW ALP right.
I wrote an hour or two ago on the other thread that both of our major political parties are dysfunctional. The dangers to our system of governance are obvious and serious. All the people who are leaping about in partisan glee at the latest developments ought to pause for some sober reflection. Do they truly believe that Abbott’s mob of second-rate nonentities is going to be a good government? Likewise the smug Gillard supporters and the ALP.
Democratic governance in Australia, the USA and Great Britain is under considerable strain. People who chortle about petty tribal victories might want to contemplate the long-term implications of what has happened in these countries in recent years.
Yes! Well said!
Yes! Well said!
Gillard is at $1.20 at Sportsbet. They must think KR’s finished …
Gillard is at $1.20 at Sportsbet. They must think KR’s finished …
Well, I’m an ABA voter (“Anybody but Abbott”), so voting informal would be a pretty useless and counterproductive thing for me to do. I’m a vote 1 Green, vote 2… n – 1 non-toxic independents, vote n ALP, vote n + 1 LNP and vote n + 2… last toxic independents kinda guy in almost all circumstances.
But it’s the effect that toppling Rudd will have on the other 12,000,000+ voters that worries me. Or Griffith, Rudd’s own seat, and the place where I live. What the fuck is going to happen to former ALP voters? Are they going to desert the party for the Greens or the LNP? That’s what dismays me personally. I’d rather have Rudd than some LNP knob representing me.
Well, I’m an ABA voter (“Anybody but Abbott”), so voting informal would be a pretty useless and counterproductive thing for me to do. I’m a vote 1 Green, vote 2… n – 1 non-toxic independents, vote n ALP, vote n + 1 LNP and vote n + 2… last toxic independents kinda guy in almost all circumstances.
But it’s the effect that toppling Rudd will have on the other 12,000,000+ voters that worries me. Or Griffith, Rudd’s own seat, and the place where I live. What the fuck is going to happen to former ALP voters? Are they going to desert the party for the Greens or the LNP? That’s what dismays me personally. I’d rather have Rudd than some LNP knob representing me.
If Rudd goes like this it will be seen as a BLACK MARK in Labor history.
Australia’s history.
A DISMISSAL by their own team.
Think of the RAMIFICATIONS.
The Libs will just turn around and say:
“See, we told ya Rudd was a LEMON…just like Latham. Even the Labor party know it. That’s why they PANICKED and got rid of him.
They can’t be trusted to run this country by just rolling out lemons.”
N’
If Rudd goes like this it will be seen as a BLACK MARK in Labor history.
Australia’s history.
A DISMISSAL by their own team.
Think of the RAMIFICATIONS.
The Libs will just turn around and say:
“See, we told ya Rudd was a LEMON…just like Latham. Even the Labor party know it. That’s why they PANICKED and got rid of him.
They can’t be trusted to run this country by just rolling out lemons.”
N’
Then good, LO. I hope she does, and like wbb, would enjoy the spectacle. But there’s a serious question mark over that, isnt there?
As for your other point about consulting caucus: please, stop confusing the ALP with the people. No one outisde the ALP gives a 0.5 of a shit about that. What are they going to say to the media? It better be a better story than that.
And whats the lesson for the future? Govt in winning position gets spooked by unremitting media claims they will lose, falls over. It doesnt matter if thats not waht actually happened in some arcane factional universe – Im worried the op-edders will now think they run the show.
The PM aint the Oppo leader either. You cant just assume the people will dig the new breed. many punters will think its polite for them to be allowed to knife the guy they put there – and they werent planning it till 2013.
Then good, LO. I hope she does, and like wbb, would enjoy the spectacle. But there’s a serious question mark over that, isnt there?
As for your other point about consulting caucus: please, stop confusing the ALP with the people. No one outisde the ALP gives a 0.5 of a shit about that. What are they going to say to the media? It better be a better story than that.
And whats the lesson for the future? Govt in winning position gets spooked by unremitting media claims they will lose, falls over. It doesnt matter if thats not waht actually happened in some arcane factional universe – Im worried the op-edders will now think they run the show.
The PM aint the Oppo leader either. You cant just assume the people will dig the new breed. many punters will think its polite for them to be allowed to knife the guy they put there – and they werent planning it till 2013.
I think Rudd must assume full responsibility for both the browning down of the ETS, its demise in the senate, and the total lack of dialogue with the Greens on both the ETS and the interim carbon tax proposal.
He talks to much and can’t deliver a clear message, as he demonstrated on his election night speech. He hasn’t improved much since.
I think he started the election campaign about a month ago and has lurched from mishap towards doom. Three major backflips and counting. I formed the opinion over the last couple of weeks that he could well lose the next election. Clearly Abbott as PM would be even worse.
On Monday night Rudd even flagged pushing out the election to March/April!
It would be interesting to know who was advising him about the campaign tactics.
He clearly has not got good control or leadership of the Labor party and many throughout the party are getting restless and scared. Not sure about the left/right stuff, others know more about that.
With Howard gone, Rudd has lost his mojo.
Gillard could run a better election campaign but I don’t know if she will do any better on climate change – I haven’t heard much from her on the topic.
Our political system (complete with its factional fabric) is failing to put capable people into office. It’s not just Rudd, its the majority of politicians.
Its a game that could cost us the earth.
I think Rudd must assume full responsibility for both the browning down of the ETS, its demise in the senate, and the total lack of dialogue with the Greens on both the ETS and the interim carbon tax proposal.
He talks to much and can’t deliver a clear message, as he demonstrated on his election night speech. He hasn’t improved much since.
I think he started the election campaign about a month ago and has lurched from mishap towards doom. Three major backflips and counting. I formed the opinion over the last couple of weeks that he could well lose the next election. Clearly Abbott as PM would be even worse.
On Monday night Rudd even flagged pushing out the election to March/April!
It would be interesting to know who was advising him about the campaign tactics.
He clearly has not got good control or leadership of the Labor party and many throughout the party are getting restless and scared. Not sure about the left/right stuff, others know more about that.
With Howard gone, Rudd has lost his mojo.
Gillard could run a better election campaign but I don’t know if she will do any better on climate change – I haven’t heard much from her on the topic.
Our political system (complete with its factional fabric) is failing to put capable people into office. It’s not just Rudd, its the majority of politicians.
Its a game that could cost us the earth.
A political party would not be a political party without constant testing of the leadership. The vital question is who calls for the spill.
Usually the challengers call for the spill. In this case the incumbent has called for the spill. The incumbent does this to destabilise and to disconcert opponents before they have achieved sufficient support and/or self confidence to call for the spill themselves.
Rudd has invoked disloyalty as the reason for calling for a spill. Gillard has protested that she has been loyal but that Rudd’s snooping for rebels was in itself disloyal. Reluctantly, Gillard claims, she has thrown her hat in the ring.
What if Rudd had called the spill but no one challenged for PM? This would have signified a widespread confidence in Rudd’s policies and in his ability to lead the party to victory in the forthcoming general election.
What if the rebels had proposed a token opponent? That would have signified considerable disquiet at Rudd’s policies but some confidence in his ability to lead the party to victory in the forthcoming general election.
However, the rebels have chosen the nuclear option. This signifies widespread disquiet and some confidence in the prospect of success in the forthcoming spill.
Rudd has brought this upon himself. And it appears that the rebels are either confident of success in the spill or they are sufficiently alarmed by the prospect of electoral annihilation in the forthcoming general election to meet Rudd’s brinkmanship with resolution.
My guess is that those polls of marginal seats which show that the ALP is on the nose so far as the only noses that really count are concerned decided the issue. The rebels have decided that Rudd is a loser in the marginals. Rudd’s obsessional combativeness has furnished the rebels with an opportunity to save the Labor parliamentary majority.
A political party would not be a political party without constant testing of the leadership. The vital question is who calls for the spill.
Usually the challengers call for the spill. In this case the incumbent has called for the spill. The incumbent does this to destabilise and to disconcert opponents before they have achieved sufficient support and/or self confidence to call for the spill themselves.
Rudd has invoked disloyalty as the reason for calling for a spill. Gillard has protested that she has been loyal but that Rudd’s snooping for rebels was in itself disloyal. Reluctantly, Gillard claims, she has thrown her hat in the ring.
What if Rudd had called the spill but no one challenged for PM? This would have signified a widespread confidence in Rudd’s policies and in his ability to lead the party to victory in the forthcoming general election.
What if the rebels had proposed a token opponent? That would have signified considerable disquiet at Rudd’s policies but some confidence in his ability to lead the party to victory in the forthcoming general election.
However, the rebels have chosen the nuclear option. This signifies widespread disquiet and some confidence in the prospect of success in the forthcoming spill.
Rudd has brought this upon himself. And it appears that the rebels are either confident of success in the spill or they are sufficiently alarmed by the prospect of electoral annihilation in the forthcoming general election to meet Rudd’s brinkmanship with resolution.
My guess is that those polls of marginal seats which show that the ALP is on the nose so far as the only noses that really count are concerned decided the issue. The rebels have decided that Rudd is a loser in the marginals. Rudd’s obsessional combativeness has furnished the rebels with an opportunity to save the Labor parliamentary majority.
Just have ter wait ‘n’ see. Actually, I think, if Gillard gets up, Abbott’s cactus.
From the litle bit I’ve been able to glean don’t think this is really a factional thing. Rudd’s work practices and manner upset those who worked for him (and us),the MPs and Parliament is one place where you don’t have to leave your job if you’ve got a bad boss, which seems to me to be the main complaint about Rudd.You can change your boss instead. And that’s what I think the Caucus is going to do.
I ended up not liking the Milky Bar Kid, but I’m feeling a bit sorry for him now.
Not Lady Macbeth. Richard II or Henry VI? (Should drag out my Shakespeare and have a look.
Just have ter wait ‘n’ see. Actually, I think, if Gillard gets up, Abbott’s cactus.
From the litle bit I’ve been able to glean don’t think this is really a factional thing. Rudd’s work practices and manner upset those who worked for him (and us),the MPs and Parliament is one place where you don’t have to leave your job if you’ve got a bad boss, which seems to me to be the main complaint about Rudd.You can change your boss instead. And that’s what I think the Caucus is going to do.
I ended up not liking the Milky Bar Kid, but I’m feeling a bit sorry for him now.
Not Lady Macbeth. Richard II or Henry VI? (Should drag out my Shakespeare and have a look.
@102 – I’ve no doubt it’s the marginal seat polling, Katz.
That’s also where the harder line on asylum seekers stuff is coming from. Watch carefully to see whether Gillard doesn’t suddenly start discovering a new found interest in restricting immigration, just as some labour honchos in the UK have become enamoured of after they lost power.
This is precisely the problem with this sort of poll driven politics. The advice from the apparatchiks is always to move to the right to keep ‘the battlers’ inside the tent. They never stop to think that you can’t beat Abbott from the right, or that maybe a bit of leadership and arguing a case could sway enough of the said marginal seat voters.
@102 – I’ve no doubt it’s the marginal seat polling, Katz.
That’s also where the harder line on asylum seekers stuff is coming from. Watch carefully to see whether Gillard doesn’t suddenly start discovering a new found interest in restricting immigration, just as some labour honchos in the UK have become enamoured of after they lost power.
This is precisely the problem with this sort of poll driven politics. The advice from the apparatchiks is always to move to the right to keep ‘the battlers’ inside the tent. They never stop to think that you can’t beat Abbott from the right, or that maybe a bit of leadership and arguing a case could sway enough of the said marginal seat voters.
#86: fair enough, you’re a Rudd fan and you’re angry. There seem to be many Rudd fans out and about on LP and PB tonight. I suspect most of you haven’t seen his leadership style up close. Because I have seen Rudd up close, I find his public persona as nauseating as his private one.
Obviously, his public persona must be highly impressive to many people who have never been unfortunate enough to deal with him directly. I recall Latham once saying something like this.
I don’t get why many Labor die-hards love this bloke. But I didn’t use to get why so many of them used to hate Bob Hawke so much (Hawke being easily the best ever Labor PM in my opinion).
Labor supporters have funny attachments to people (eg, Barry Jones).
#86: fair enough, you’re a Rudd fan and you’re angry. There seem to be many Rudd fans out and about on LP and PB tonight. I suspect most of you haven’t seen his leadership style up close. Because I have seen Rudd up close, I find his public persona as nauseating as his private one.
Obviously, his public persona must be highly impressive to many people who have never been unfortunate enough to deal with him directly. I recall Latham once saying something like this.
I don’t get why many Labor die-hards love this bloke. But I didn’t use to get why so many of them used to hate Bob Hawke so much (Hawke being easily the best ever Labor PM in my opinion).
Labor supporters have funny attachments to people (eg, Barry Jones).
I think its a far riskier move than some might be thinking: mistaking a feeling of immediate relief for good sense.
1. What will Gillard say when asked why she moved on Rudd? (Hint: NO ONE CARES about teh cruelty to poor little ALP animals – so that one’s out)
2. You think the Libs wont run the line that ALP hacks decided what the people had a right to? Again, this is the PM – not some opposition leader, that comes two for a buck off the shelf.
3. You think the mining co’s will let up now? Puhleease. Where’s the budget if the RSPT goes?
4. Unless they stump up a major enviro policy quick, Tanner is probably toast. There goes the brains of the outfit.
Aside from that, I will enjoy the first female PM angle. And I like her in a stoush. But this would have been way less risky after the election. It is absolutely not like Rudd and Beazer – who as I recall, wasnt PM.
I think its a far riskier move than some might be thinking: mistaking a feeling of immediate relief for good sense.
1. What will Gillard say when asked why she moved on Rudd? (Hint: NO ONE CARES about teh cruelty to poor little ALP animals – so that one’s out)
2. You think the Libs wont run the line that ALP hacks decided what the people had a right to? Again, this is the PM – not some opposition leader, that comes two for a buck off the shelf.
3. You think the mining co’s will let up now? Puhleease. Where’s the budget if the RSPT goes?
4. Unless they stump up a major enviro policy quick, Tanner is probably toast. There goes the brains of the outfit.
Aside from that, I will enjoy the first female PM angle. And I like her in a stoush. But this would have been way less risky after the election. It is absolutely not like Rudd and Beazer – who as I recall, wasnt PM.
Ides of June.
Gillard must be pretty much a certainty now, though there are some persuasive views in this thread to the contrary.
I’ve never witnessed a more clinical execution in politics, not since I started taking notice in the ’80s. My jury’s out on whether it’s the right move, but there’s certainly something tragic about it all. Ides of June, blood on the carpet etc. Beat John Howard but you still won’t get to see out your term if the polls go sour for 3 or 4 months…
Ides of June.
Gillard must be pretty much a certainty now, though there are some persuasive views in this thread to the contrary.
I’ve never witnessed a more clinical execution in politics, not since I started taking notice in the ’80s. My jury’s out on whether it’s the right move, but there’s certainly something tragic about it all. Ides of June, blood on the carpet etc. Beat John Howard but you still won’t get to see out your term if the polls go sour for 3 or 4 months…
Mark, you are a bit of a watcher aren’t you. Pick sides. I worked up on the Hill and if I had a vote, it would be for Gillard. Not for any polling reasons. Politics is a blood sport pure and simple. You can’t just watch polls and ‘rationally’ decide things. Rudd is a bore. At least with Gillard you have a hope of engaging the public and driving a project through for a number of terms. I like politicians who a credible, Gillard is even though I disagree with her a lot. Rudd is simply ‘piss and vinegar’, nothing more. They can’t afford Gillard on the back bench but they can afford a Ruddless ALP.
Mark, you are a bit of a watcher aren’t you. Pick sides. I worked up on the Hill and if I had a vote, it would be for Gillard. Not for any polling reasons. Politics is a blood sport pure and simple. You can’t just watch polls and ‘rationally’ decide things. Rudd is a bore. At least with Gillard you have a hope of engaging the public and driving a project through for a number of terms. I like politicians who a credible, Gillard is even though I disagree with her a lot. Rudd is simply ‘piss and vinegar’, nothing more. They can’t afford Gillard on the back bench but they can afford a Ruddless ALP.
OK, I concede, overuse of bad Caesar analogy. It’s late, I’m fuzzy, and all the other great stories about leaders getting knifed to death just aren’t crystalising in my head…
OK, I concede, overuse of bad Caesar analogy. It’s late, I’m fuzzy, and all the other great stories about leaders getting knifed to death just aren’t crystalising in my head…
I don’t know about inside the Parliamentary ALP, but when he treated Premier Kenneally like his shit didn’t stink in that first public meeting I think the rest of Australia finally worked out what he really was like.
I don’t know about inside the Parliamentary ALP, but when he treated Premier Kenneally like his shit didn’t stink in that first public meeting I think the rest of Australia finally worked out what he really was like.
The ALP, The IDF, Jayant Patel and Gen McChrystal.
Is it just me, or is there some kind of arrogant, self-destructing zeitgeist abounding atm?
The ALP, The IDF, Jayant Patel and Gen McChrystal.
Is it just me, or is there some kind of arrogant, self-destructing zeitgeist abounding atm?
@ 100, PeterC – pay peanuts, get monkeys.
@ 100, PeterC – pay peanuts, get monkeys.
Mark @102, I agree about the marginal seats being the major source of disquiet and unrest – that is where they risk losing government, and where the mining companies have pitched their $100m of advertising against the RSPT. Which makes me wonder why Rudd took them on – this is the threat they always wield. No surprise they exercised it.
Beasley went to the right on asylum seekers when he clearly didn’t want to. Labor under Rudd has done likewise. Why can’t they show some real leadership and stick with policies that respect human rights and the UN Convention on Refugees?
The tactic of moving to the right to try and take the wind of Abbott’s sails is fatally flawed. As you point out, it won’t work. And it is simply wrong.
This poll-driven stuff is rancid – and selective – 80% of Australians want their remaining native forests protected yet Rudd (and the Liberals) support continuing to destroy them for woodchips that could now go into furnaces to generate power. This is crime of the century stuff.
Mark @102, I agree about the marginal seats being the major source of disquiet and unrest – that is where they risk losing government, and where the mining companies have pitched their $100m of advertising against the RSPT. Which makes me wonder why Rudd took them on – this is the threat they always wield. No surprise they exercised it.
Beasley went to the right on asylum seekers when he clearly didn’t want to. Labor under Rudd has done likewise. Why can’t they show some real leadership and stick with policies that respect human rights and the UN Convention on Refugees?
The tactic of moving to the right to try and take the wind of Abbott’s sails is fatally flawed. As you point out, it won’t work. And it is simply wrong.
This poll-driven stuff is rancid – and selective – 80% of Australians want their remaining native forests protected yet Rudd (and the Liberals) support continuing to destroy them for woodchips that could now go into furnaces to generate power. This is crime of the century stuff.
@106 – (1) is crucial.
Someone needs to fill me in on the plan of how the ALP explains to the public that they’ve knifed the PM. It will have to be a lot more persuasive than the ‘polls made me do it’, ‘Rudd was disloyal to Gillard’ crap that Paul Howes was pushing on Lateline tonight. This idiocy is straight out of the playbook of the so-called ‘strategists’ whose cravenness in the face of focus groups has wrecked the NSW government and eviscerated the Labor party generally.
@108 –
Kevin Rudd.
@106 – (1) is crucial.
Someone needs to fill me in on the plan of how the ALP explains to the public that they’ve knifed the PM. It will have to be a lot more persuasive than the ‘polls made me do it’, ‘Rudd was disloyal to Gillard’ crap that Paul Howes was pushing on Lateline tonight. This idiocy is straight out of the playbook of the so-called ‘strategists’ whose cravenness in the face of focus groups has wrecked the NSW government and eviscerated the Labor party generally.
@108 –
Kevin Rudd.
LO I think we’re (almost) all hoping Julia will blitz them. But as you said earlier this doesn’t seem the time to make the change. If there’d been a spill either a year ago or after the next election a lot of us would be cheering. But people have been expecting an election as early as August. Today’s putsch seems like panic, not a good look in a government. If as you seem to be suggesting it’s a combination of frustration and vengeance internally it appears undisciplined.
Gillard probably has more chance of recovering from this disorder than most but she shouldn’t have to. The Rudd government had incumbency and stability on its side – these have been greatly devalued
LO I think we’re (almost) all hoping Julia will blitz them. But as you said earlier this doesn’t seem the time to make the change. If there’d been a spill either a year ago or after the next election a lot of us would be cheering. But people have been expecting an election as early as August. Today’s putsch seems like panic, not a good look in a government. If as you seem to be suggesting it’s a combination of frustration and vengeance internally it appears undisciplined.
Gillard probably has more chance of recovering from this disorder than most but she shouldn’t have to. The Rudd government had incumbency and stability on its side – these have been greatly devalued
” Mark Arbib from the NSW Right and Kim Carr from the Victorian Left, the former Labor federal secretary and now West Australian MP Gary Gray, the Victorian Right powerbroker Steve Conroy and others knew the mood inside the party was tinder dry.”
http://www.smh.com.au/national/a-tinderdry-mood-and-the-sparks-fly-20100623-yz8t.html
These are not the names that really inspire you to think that the Labor Party is headed down the right path. I wouldn’t follow that lot to the front gate for fear of getting lost. Incompetents.
” Mark Arbib from the NSW Right and Kim Carr from the Victorian Left, the former Labor federal secretary and now West Australian MP Gary Gray, the Victorian Right powerbroker Steve Conroy and others knew the mood inside the party was tinder dry.”
http://www.smh.com.au/national/a-tinderdry-mood-and-the-sparks-fly-20100623-yz8t.html
These are not the names that really inspire you to think that the Labor Party is headed down the right path. I wouldn’t follow that lot to the front gate for fear of getting lost. Incompetents.
Mark, Rudd is finished whether now or in 12 months. Gillard can’t sit on the back bench can she? the only thing that could save Rudd is other contenders propping him up? That’s no way to govern or campaign.
Mark, Rudd is finished whether now or in 12 months. Gillard can’t sit on the back bench can she? the only thing that could save Rudd is other contenders propping him up? That’s no way to govern or campaign.
Fuck wits.
Fuck wits.
It is pretty simple Lefty E.
Her claim to the leadership is based on betting a better, more inclusive communicator than Rudd. That internal polling in marginal seats was looking very bad. That Rudd’s own style was a key part of the problem. That only she could unite the party to keep the Coalition out of office. She won’t repudiate the broad policy direction, but argue that the policy development process had become unfocused and that the government needed to concentrate on doing a few things well, and making the case to the electorate a lot more effectively.
And the lesson for the future is also simple. Being PM doesn’t give you the right to run roughshod over your colleagues and govern without consultation. That your duty as PM is to govern well. That a PM is not elected by the people, but by the party they represent. Deposing a sitting PM is traumatic, but not as traumatic as watching them take you to an election defeat.
My point about caucus was simply about why he is so unpopular internally. You have to have been a part of the advising team to understand just how reviled Rudd and his style was internally.
As I said before, people were prepared to put up with it while the results were good. When the internal polling starting pointing to an election loss with Rudd a key part of the problem, he was toast.
It is pretty simple Lefty E.
Her claim to the leadership is based on betting a better, more inclusive communicator than Rudd. That internal polling in marginal seats was looking very bad. That Rudd’s own style was a key part of the problem. That only she could unite the party to keep the Coalition out of office. She won’t repudiate the broad policy direction, but argue that the policy development process had become unfocused and that the government needed to concentrate on doing a few things well, and making the case to the electorate a lot more effectively.
And the lesson for the future is also simple. Being PM doesn’t give you the right to run roughshod over your colleagues and govern without consultation. That your duty as PM is to govern well. That a PM is not elected by the people, but by the party they represent. Deposing a sitting PM is traumatic, but not as traumatic as watching them take you to an election defeat.
My point about caucus was simply about why he is so unpopular internally. You have to have been a part of the advising team to understand just how reviled Rudd and his style was internally.
As I said before, people were prepared to put up with it while the results were good. When the internal polling starting pointing to an election loss with Rudd a key part of the problem, he was toast.
Trenton, if Arbib supports Gillard, Rudd is finished. He wouldn’t move unless he was certain.
Trenton, if Arbib supports Gillard, Rudd is finished. He wouldn’t move unless he was certain.
Razor @ 110.. I saw an extended clip of that. It wasn’t like that at all. At least not in my opinion.
But I’ll concede to your expert analysis.
I will learn in time.
Razor @ 110.. I saw an extended clip of that. It wasn’t like that at all. At least not in my opinion.
But I’ll concede to your expert analysis.
I will learn in time.
It’s an unprecedented act of desperation. Every elected Prime Minister has contested at least one election as PM. You’ve got to go back to 1904 when three different parties help power in one term for anything close.
I’m astonished that organisationally, the Caucus can have worked itself up into this kind of frenzy in such as short time. I’m sure comments about teh factional warlords (who apparently communicate through emissaries, who knew?) are right, but this is something different. Can Rudd be so disliked by, and disconnected from the Caucus, that he’s unable to quell a level of panic never before seen in a first term government?
d
It’s an unprecedented act of desperation. Every elected Prime Minister has contested at least one election as PM. You’ve got to go back to 1904 when three different parties help power in one term for anything close.
I’m astonished that organisationally, the Caucus can have worked itself up into this kind of frenzy in such as short time. I’m sure comments about teh factional warlords (who apparently communicate through emissaries, who knew?) are right, but this is something different. Can Rudd be so disliked by, and disconnected from the Caucus, that he’s unable to quell a level of panic never before seen in a first term government?
d
@ 40 Megan
“Sounds like he’s on his deathbed!”
I think that by 9.10am Thursday 24 June 2010 we will hear someone pronounce “The King is dead, Long live the Queen”
tssk @ 121 – how many other Australians saw the extended clip you saw? Not many?
@ 40 Megan
“Sounds like he’s on his deathbed!”
I think that by 9.10am Thursday 24 June 2010 we will hear someone pronounce “The King is dead, Long live the Queen”
tssk @ 121 – how many other Australians saw the extended clip you saw? Not many?
Mark, you are half willed left-winger. Gillard is your horse! So what if Arbib is on board. When would you ever support her? It seems to me you are a passionless drown sometimes. Get your horse in the big office whipping the ALP even if it comes witha few right-wing attachments.
Mark, you are half willed left-winger. Gillard is your horse! So what if Arbib is on board. When would you ever support her? It seems to me you are a passionless drown sometimes. Get your horse in the big office whipping the ALP even if it comes witha few right-wing attachments.
I hav mixed emotions , but firstly
and am astounded that those Greens bloggers so ruthlessly critical of Rudd before today , yet tonite all of a sudden show defence of Rudd & worrying of a Labor loss
Has it finaly occured to Greens that Labor and Liberal ar completely diferent polisy based Partys afterall , and that a PM Abbott wont be Labor Party polisys in any way
AND worser , there was David Marr and Van Olsen on Sky News so hypocrital when they were anti Rudd cheer leeders of false naratives’ Expect nmore Journo’s giving crocodile tears to Rudd , hypocrits one and all this MSN
I SUPPORT DECISION for Julia to take over as PM
I tink it is grossly unfair to Rudd who has been a very competant PM ,a nd whose Govt has made so many “core left” Reforms in Education , Health , Hospitals , IR , Tax equity , Indigenous affairs , etc etc
furthermore this govt got us thru GFC , targeted GFC stimuli based on Labor core isues being DIRECT Kenysian job creation …something USA’s stimuli and othr Country’s stimuli did NOT do …that was 50 billion of DEBT stimuli , ie no mining boom moneys in that govt stimuli ‘debt’
Rudd even attempted to increase costs of every Aussie voter 9and business in oz) with a price on Carbon…some say not enuf , some say it was a ‘great new tax’ , but he tried Climate Change in oz (and was a leeder behind scenes at Coppenehaggen)
…it got rejected by others for there reasons
Moment Rudd lost PM’ship was to listen to “experts’ who said your ETS (3 times rejected) is NOW an “academic” polisy…which will CONTINUE to get attacked by Liberals and Greens from either end…that was quite true , but these dickhead “experts” did not think that creating a ‘vacuum” (without creating a 3rd ETS Plan) , asked to be critisised as lacking conviction/backflipping by th VERY MSN and poitcal Parties who opposed it
public I think accepted that false “narative” , but that reality thats what you get from listening to ‘experts”…public switched off from that decision
and internal Labor polling is as bad as Newspolls in most marginals , and unlikely recoverable , 35% pov was ONLY National average Labor vote including strong seats…a disaster was waiting
a clear message to recovery that POV and overcome MSN ‘anti Labor message’ was urgent to get Labor elected …pref with a CC polisy immediately Julia delivers this way , Rudd never has Those in doubt of ruddspeak , listen to AWU Secretary on LL tonite , clear to point on issues of pro Labor vs Liberals
But a sad night for democracy and a fine PM I feel
I hav mixed emotions , but firstly
and am astounded that those Greens bloggers so ruthlessly critical of Rudd before today , yet tonite all of a sudden show defence of Rudd & worrying of a Labor loss
Has it finaly occured to Greens that Labor and Liberal ar completely diferent polisy based Partys afterall , and that a PM Abbott wont be Labor Party polisys in any way
AND worser , there was David Marr and Van Olsen on Sky News so hypocrital when they were anti Rudd cheer leeders of false naratives’ Expect nmore Journo’s giving crocodile tears to Rudd , hypocrits one and all this MSN
I SUPPORT DECISION for Julia to take over as PM
I tink it is grossly unfair to Rudd who has been a very competant PM ,a nd whose Govt has made so many “core left” Reforms in Education , Health , Hospitals , IR , Tax equity , Indigenous affairs , etc etc
furthermore this govt got us thru GFC , targeted GFC stimuli based on Labor core isues being DIRECT Kenysian job creation …something USA’s stimuli and othr Country’s stimuli did NOT do …that was 50 billion of DEBT stimuli , ie no mining boom moneys in that govt stimuli ‘debt’
Rudd even attempted to increase costs of every Aussie voter 9and business in oz) with a price on Carbon…some say not enuf , some say it was a ‘great new tax’ , but he tried Climate Change in oz (and was a leeder behind scenes at Coppenehaggen)
…it got rejected by others for there reasons
Moment Rudd lost PM’ship was to listen to “experts’ who said your ETS (3 times rejected) is NOW an “academic” polisy…which will CONTINUE to get attacked by Liberals and Greens from either end…that was quite true , but these dickhead “experts” did not think that creating a ‘vacuum” (without creating a 3rd ETS Plan) , asked to be critisised as lacking conviction/backflipping by th VERY MSN and poitcal Parties who opposed it
public I think accepted that false “narative” , but that reality thats what you get from listening to ‘experts”…public switched off from that decision
and internal Labor polling is as bad as Newspolls in most marginals , and unlikely recoverable , 35% pov was ONLY National average Labor vote including strong seats…a disaster was waiting
a clear message to recovery that POV and overcome MSN ‘anti Labor message’ was urgent to get Labor elected …pref with a CC polisy immediately Julia delivers this way , Rudd never has Those in doubt of ruddspeak , listen to AWU Secretary on LL tonite , clear to point on issues of pro Labor vs Liberals
But a sad night for democracy and a fine PM I feel
Indeed Razor. The media does rule.
BTW. those of us who would like to expose ourselves to our intellectual betters could do worse than to visit im Blair’s blog and read every single comment. And when tut-tutting into your latte like I was remember this.
They were right.
Indeed Razor. The media does rule.
BTW. those of us who would like to expose ourselves to our intellectual betters could do worse than to visit im Blair’s blog and read every single comment. And when tut-tutting into your latte like I was remember this.
They were right.
I’m sure it would be much more pleasant to work for Gillard than Rudd; she has much better communication and people skills; and probably a better chance of beating Tony Abbott. But I don’t trust her or her supporters, especially on climate change.
The decision to abandon the CPRS was pushed for by Gillard’s factional ally Mark Arbib and others on the NSW Right. Lenore Taylor reported that Gillard would have preferred to can it altogether instead of putting it in the deep freeze. And Paul Howes spent a year dishonestly misrepresenting the CPRS as being anti-jobs until he was able to extract enough concessions for polluters that he would support it.
Now I am very critical of Rudd for abandoning an ETS indefinitely, but at least I know that he understands that you have to have a price on carbon. He also has an understanding of the international issues after engaging in difficult negotiations at Copenhagen. I just hope that if Gillard takes over (which seems likely) she realises that she needs to engage in strong climate action if she wants public support.
And I hope that Abbott doesn’t get in. Even Arbib, Howes and Ferguson are better than Abbott.
I’m sure it would be much more pleasant to work for Gillard than Rudd; she has much better communication and people skills; and probably a better chance of beating Tony Abbott. But I don’t trust her or her supporters, especially on climate change.
The decision to abandon the CPRS was pushed for by Gillard’s factional ally Mark Arbib and others on the NSW Right. Lenore Taylor reported that Gillard would have preferred to can it altogether instead of putting it in the deep freeze. And Paul Howes spent a year dishonestly misrepresenting the CPRS as being anti-jobs until he was able to extract enough concessions for polluters that he would support it.
Now I am very critical of Rudd for abandoning an ETS indefinitely, but at least I know that he understands that you have to have a price on carbon. He also has an understanding of the international issues after engaging in difficult negotiations at Copenhagen. I just hope that if Gillard takes over (which seems likely) she realises that she needs to engage in strong climate action if she wants public support.
And I hope that Abbott doesn’t get in. Even Arbib, Howes and Ferguson are better than Abbott.
I disagree.
Rudd has always owed the NSW Right, Gillard will owe them nothing. Twelve months from now they’ll be dead, they just won’t drag down a Labor federal government with them (too late for NSW, too late). My guess is that little Mark Arbib will get shunted from his plum office in Canberra.
Rudd might beat Tony Abbott, Gillard will crush him.
OB@94: real power must be taken. And you did want a female PM with real power, didnt you?
Lefty@107, point 3: these are the guys who missed out on millions in compo when the ETS went down, and if Labor votes against its own vulnerability then the miners are up the proverbial creek without means of propulsion. My guess is they’ll quit while they’re behind, another factor in the Gillard honeymoon, and a sudden end to the spigots of cash flooding into Liberal coffers about now.
Razor@110: say what you will about Rudd, but everyone should treat Keneally like a the muppet that she is.
I disagree.
Rudd has always owed the NSW Right, Gillard will owe them nothing. Twelve months from now they’ll be dead, they just won’t drag down a Labor federal government with them (too late for NSW, too late). My guess is that little Mark Arbib will get shunted from his plum office in Canberra.
Rudd might beat Tony Abbott, Gillard will crush him.
OB@94: real power must be taken. And you did want a female PM with real power, didnt you?
Lefty@107, point 3: these are the guys who missed out on millions in compo when the ETS went down, and if Labor votes against its own vulnerability then the miners are up the proverbial creek without means of propulsion. My guess is they’ll quit while they’re behind, another factor in the Gillard honeymoon, and a sudden end to the spigots of cash flooding into Liberal coffers about now.
Razor@110: say what you will about Rudd, but everyone should treat Keneally like a the muppet that she is.
@105
I’ve actually known Kevin Rudd since beofre he was in parliament, so you can take that condescension back. And how about the ‘funny attachment’ of Libs to MEnzies? Good old Pig Iron Bob who wanted to keep selling iron to the Japanese not long before that little scuffle broke out. What do they call it? Oh, that’s right, the SECOND WORLD WAR.
@105
I’ve actually known Kevin Rudd since beofre he was in parliament, so you can take that condescension back. And how about the ‘funny attachment’ of Libs to MEnzies? Good old Pig Iron Bob who wanted to keep selling iron to the Japanese not long before that little scuffle broke out. What do they call it? Oh, that’s right, the SECOND WORLD WAR.
Daryl, yes.
In all my time in the ALP I have never seen another leader, federal or state, for whom there is so little internal affection.
Daryl, yes.
In all my time in the ALP I have never seen another leader, federal or state, for whom there is so little internal affection.
Daryly, Hawke was loved, Keating feared, Beazley stangely liked, Latham some even hoped he would be great, but Rudd has always been seen as a means to an end. The type of facilitator of winning that is never admired for it despite being the only ALP leader in he Parliament who is a winner. Rudd is not in the gang so to speak.
Daryly, Hawke was loved, Keating feared, Beazley stangely liked, Latham some even hoped he would be great, but Rudd has always been seen as a means to an end. The type of facilitator of winning that is never admired for it despite being the only ALP leader in he Parliament who is a winner. Rudd is not in the gang so to speak.
That the right wing factions are pushing this is a real worry.
Rudd’s popularity dropped when the lurch to the right in many policy areas made him “Howard Lite”. Movement, not just talk, to the left might have saved him, and the ALP, but at the cost of being a backflipper, although a backflip back to pre-election promises. A side order of right wing heads (esp Conroy) on plates would make everything more palatable, and deflate “backflip” accusations somewhat.
Could Gillard, oft accused by the Libs of being a left wingnut, reintroduce the leftish policies Australia voted for without the “mud” of her being the red-haired red sticking? I don’t know.
Is there a cleanskin ALP MHR who could pull off a shift back to the election platform, especially the “greatest moral challenge of our time”? It’s not like there are no detailed policy options available in Garnaut and other sources, (or the mental health task force, etc, etc), ready to roll out, and get Green support to ram them through a Senate with additional sittings.
The screwups (and reek of frank corruption) in various state ALP governments will not help the Federal ALP either.
Perhaps we need a hung reps and senate to get some proper “product differentiation” happening, or the Light on the Hill is lost until the Greens are kingmakers.
That the right wing factions are pushing this is a real worry.
Rudd’s popularity dropped when the lurch to the right in many policy areas made him “Howard Lite”. Movement, not just talk, to the left might have saved him, and the ALP, but at the cost of being a backflipper, although a backflip back to pre-election promises. A side order of right wing heads (esp Conroy) on plates would make everything more palatable, and deflate “backflip” accusations somewhat.
Could Gillard, oft accused by the Libs of being a left wingnut, reintroduce the leftish policies Australia voted for without the “mud” of her being the red-haired red sticking? I don’t know.
Is there a cleanskin ALP MHR who could pull off a shift back to the election platform, especially the “greatest moral challenge of our time”? It’s not like there are no detailed policy options available in Garnaut and other sources, (or the mental health task force, etc, etc), ready to roll out, and get Green support to ram them through a Senate with additional sittings.
The screwups (and reek of frank corruption) in various state ALP governments will not help the Federal ALP either.
Perhaps we need a hung reps and senate to get some proper “product differentiation” happening, or the Light on the Hill is lost until the Greens are kingmakers.
@ 129 – I’m a bit old school and prepfer to not wash my dirty linen in public and treat everyone how I would like to be treated, even if I hate their guts.
@ 129 – I’m a bit old school and prepfer to not wash my dirty linen in public and treat everyone how I would like to be treated, even if I hate their guts.
Shut up Corin. And LO, I don’t give a stuff about ‘internal affecction’. Rudd was elected by the Australian people, not Labor insiders like you.
When Abbott’s PM, you’ll all find someone else to blame.
Shut up Corin. And LO, I don’t give a stuff about ‘internal affecction’. Rudd was elected by the Australian people, not Labor insiders like you.
When Abbott’s PM, you’ll all find someone else to blame.
LO @ 119 – When the internal polling starting pointing to an election loss with Rudd a key part of the problem, he was toast.
But was there going to be an election loss? Some marginal seats, and I’d hate to see Tanner go, but my understanding was that Labor hadn’t even started to campaign yet and 2PP was looking ok. Honestly, even a campaign based on “well, at least we’re not Tony Abbott” would work pretty well for most voters.
LO @ 119 – When the internal polling starting pointing to an election loss with Rudd a key part of the problem, he was toast.
But was there going to be an election loss? Some marginal seats, and I’d hate to see Tanner go, but my understanding was that Labor hadn’t even started to campaign yet and 2PP was looking ok. Honestly, even a campaign based on “well, at least we’re not Tony Abbott” would work pretty well for most voters.
Ken Lovell said
Yep. I read the comments by ordinary Australians on newspaper threads and think the same thing.
I’m done. They’ve won. I’m tempted to vote informal. And this is how ABbott will get his mandate.
All the Lib’s need to do now is convince ALP supporters not to vote. They don’t need to win votes now. Just sap the left.
Too easy since we’ve proven we are full of saps.
Ken Lovell said
Yep. I read the comments by ordinary Australians on newspaper threads and think the same thing.
I’m done. They’ve won. I’m tempted to vote informal. And this is how ABbott will get his mandate.
All the Lib’s need to do now is convince ALP supporters not to vote. They don’t need to win votes now. Just sap the left.
Too easy since we’ve proven we are full of saps.
Adrian, Gillard will be amuch better PM than Rudd. End of story. The public can decide on her in 6 months. By that rationale Hawke would never have been rolled and Keating would never have been PM. I don’t sense any affection for Rudd in electorate and polling for him is dire. Gillard will be consistent and firm. Direct and engaging. She is the communicator in that team. She is a sherman tank for Labor values. I personally disagree with a lot about her but not her becoming leader right now. The lectorate needs to know where the country will be in 5 years. Rudd cannnot do that and no one thinks he’ll see out the next term.
Adrian, Gillard will be amuch better PM than Rudd. End of story. The public can decide on her in 6 months. By that rationale Hawke would never have been rolled and Keating would never have been PM. I don’t sense any affection for Rudd in electorate and polling for him is dire. Gillard will be consistent and firm. Direct and engaging. She is the communicator in that team. She is a sherman tank for Labor values. I personally disagree with a lot about her but not her becoming leader right now. The lectorate needs to know where the country will be in 5 years. Rudd cannnot do that and no one thinks he’ll see out the next term.
Lack of internal affection will unfotunately be of zero relevance to the punters at the election. Its actually deranged to think they’ll accept that as a satisfactory reason – or that on one will ask. As Mark says – better have a good one! This is (/was) the PM, not Beazley.
And is it just me, or will the Libs first act be to run ads highlighting that the same people who bring you the NSW govt just brought you Julia.
Ron- as a Green my position hasn’t altered a wit – I wanted the ALP to win before, and do now. But their position on climate change is weak, and probably will get weaker now. What’s hard to get? And didnt you notice all those voters going Green? for me, it seems the guys who pushed Rudd to drop a major enviro platform have just taken over. Forgive me if Im not busting with joy. I hope Julai surprises me.
LO – oh yes , the ‘internal polling’? Will we ever see it? How come its not reflected in other major polls? Wouldnt you think the overall 52-48s would iron out some of these alleged (sorry, “internal”) marginal losses?
Every psepho would.
Lack of internal affection will unfotunately be of zero relevance to the punters at the election. Its actually deranged to think they’ll accept that as a satisfactory reason – or that on one will ask. As Mark says – better have a good one! This is (/was) the PM, not Beazley.
And is it just me, or will the Libs first act be to run ads highlighting that the same people who bring you the NSW govt just brought you Julia.
Ron- as a Green my position hasn’t altered a wit – I wanted the ALP to win before, and do now. But their position on climate change is weak, and probably will get weaker now. What’s hard to get? And didnt you notice all those voters going Green? for me, it seems the guys who pushed Rudd to drop a major enviro platform have just taken over. Forgive me if Im not busting with joy. I hope Julai surprises me.
LO – oh yes , the ‘internal polling’? Will we ever see it? How come its not reflected in other major polls? Wouldnt you think the overall 52-48s would iron out some of these alleged (sorry, “internal”) marginal losses?
Every psepho would.
Dumping the CPRS may have originated with Arbib’s mob, as per the Hartcher story Mark linked to, but it was considered by Cabinet and then by the kitchen cabinet (officially the Strategic Priorities and Budget Committee). Lenore Taylor said that Swan was for deferring and Tanner against it. Gillard supported Swan. Swan wanted clear air for the Henry taxation review. Rudd was on the fence but eventually came down on the side of Swan/Gillard.
They were going to take it back to cabinet but someone leaked it.
Dumping the CPRS may have originated with Arbib’s mob, as per the Hartcher story Mark linked to, but it was considered by Cabinet and then by the kitchen cabinet (officially the Strategic Priorities and Budget Committee). Lenore Taylor said that Swan was for deferring and Tanner against it. Gillard supported Swan. Swan wanted clear air for the Henry taxation review. Rudd was on the fence but eventually came down on the side of Swan/Gillard.
They were going to take it back to cabinet but someone leaked it.
“Someone needs to fill me in on the plan of how the ALP explains to the public that they’ve knifed the PM. It will have to be a lot more persuasive than the ‘polls made me do it’, ‘Rudd was disloyal to Gillard’ crap that Paul Howes was pushing on Lateline tonight. This idiocy is straight out of the playbook of the so-called ’strategists’ whose cravenness in the face of focus groups has wrecked the NSW government and eviscerated the Labor party generally.”
Exactly my concerns Mark. This will have far bigger ramifications than many are seeing right now. This is a HUGE DECISION, putting a gun to a PMs head and making him walk the plank. People are still referring to “Kerr’s cur”. Many are still pissed about it.
My father-in-law is a swing voter here in QLD who was only going to vote for Labor because Rudd was a local boy. I think that vote will be lost.
I just don’t feel positive about this.
Julia woulda made a great PM coming in in other circumstances. If only it had been civil…and Ruddy had used an illness, wife’s work excuse etc. But not this KNIFING. This DISMISSAL.
Why do I feel we have moved from a DEMOCRACY…to a MURDOCRACY?
N’
“Someone needs to fill me in on the plan of how the ALP explains to the public that they’ve knifed the PM. It will have to be a lot more persuasive than the ‘polls made me do it’, ‘Rudd was disloyal to Gillard’ crap that Paul Howes was pushing on Lateline tonight. This idiocy is straight out of the playbook of the so-called ’strategists’ whose cravenness in the face of focus groups has wrecked the NSW government and eviscerated the Labor party generally.”
Exactly my concerns Mark. This will have far bigger ramifications than many are seeing right now. This is a HUGE DECISION, putting a gun to a PMs head and making him walk the plank. People are still referring to “Kerr’s cur”. Many are still pissed about it.
My father-in-law is a swing voter here in QLD who was only going to vote for Labor because Rudd was a local boy. I think that vote will be lost.
I just don’t feel positive about this.
Julia woulda made a great PM coming in in other circumstances. If only it had been civil…and Ruddy had used an illness, wife’s work excuse etc. But not this KNIFING. This DISMISSAL.
Why do I feel we have moved from a DEMOCRACY…to a MURDOCRACY?
N’
I just can’t believe that LP people aren’t dancing the streets at the idea of Gillard. she’s everything you’ve ever wanted.
I just can’t believe that LP people aren’t dancing the streets at the idea of Gillard. she’s everything you’ve ever wanted.
Lefty, you know as well as I do that swings aren’t uniform. That a party can poll worse in the marginals than in the non-marginals. That the 52-48 overstated things because it assumed a preference flow that was unlikely to materialise. I never claimed that the internal unpopularity would matter to punters. But it helps to explain why forces mobilised so easily to get rid of him. Also, many of the reasons he is unpopular internally help to explain his increasing unpopularity externally. He was just better known internally so people were able to form an accurate view earlier.
Again though I will restate my view. Rudd did have time to turn things around. The move is risky and could prove counterproductive. If I had any influence over these things, which I don’t, I would not have supported the putsch, even though I think Gillard would be a more effective PM in better circumstances.
Lefty, you know as well as I do that swings aren’t uniform. That a party can poll worse in the marginals than in the non-marginals. That the 52-48 overstated things because it assumed a preference flow that was unlikely to materialise. I never claimed that the internal unpopularity would matter to punters. But it helps to explain why forces mobilised so easily to get rid of him. Also, many of the reasons he is unpopular internally help to explain his increasing unpopularity externally. He was just better known internally so people were able to form an accurate view earlier.
Again though I will restate my view. Rudd did have time to turn things around. The move is risky and could prove counterproductive. If I had any influence over these things, which I don’t, I would not have supported the putsch, even though I think Gillard would be a more effective PM in better circumstances.
nasking. Fair call really. One man. One vote.
Murdoch is the man. He has the vote.
nasking. Fair call really. One man. One vote.
Murdoch is the man. He has the vote.
It is not as if Rudd has not had a public career before politics. I’m sure his personal traits and leadership style would have been known by enough in the party to make a judgement. So either the partys judgement was flawed or they didn’t care about these short comings when he gained the ALP leadership. He was bought to us by the same mob who gave us Latham so I go with flawed judgement. In the end though, I agree with lefty e on the relevence to the average voter.
It is not as if Rudd has not had a public career before politics. I’m sure his personal traits and leadership style would have been known by enough in the party to make a judgement. So either the partys judgement was flawed or they didn’t care about these short comings when he gained the ALP leadership. He was bought to us by the same mob who gave us Latham so I go with flawed judgement. In the end though, I agree with lefty e on the relevence to the average voter.
Update: The full text of Kevin Rudd’s press conference.
Update: The full text of Kevin Rudd’s press conference.
Rudd has always been seen as a means to an end
That’s not true at all. Even before he was elected leader he was very popular thanks to his Sunrise appearances. Things have gone pretty badly wrong recently, but it’s a massive re-writing of history to argue he was never liked by the electorate, regardless of the fact that most of the caucus saw him as a means to an end.
Rudd has always been seen as a means to an end
That’s not true at all. Even before he was elected leader he was very popular thanks to his Sunrise appearances. Things have gone pretty badly wrong recently, but it’s a massive re-writing of history to argue he was never liked by the electorate, regardless of the fact that most of the caucus saw him as a means to an end.
Elsewhere: Hoyden About Town, Politically Homeless, Shakira Hussein at The Stump.
Elsewhere: Hoyden About Town, Politically Homeless, Shakira Hussein at The Stump.
Going back to Roger J @ 4 and mark @ 16, every Friday on local radio Richard Fidler has a spot with David Salter, now of The Monthly, to chew the fat about politics.
Last Friday Salter said they were doing an article on Rudd’s management style, I think it was, from memory. He said that in no time flat they had about 30 ‘sources’ eager to brief them.
On 6 June in the Fin Review in an article I kept Laura Tingle wrote about “the first signs of a quiet revolt taking place against the way Kevin Rudd has run his government since 2008.” She said it started at the top with Tanner, Swan and Gillard. They were increasingly contesting and trying to reshape political strategy “widely seen as driven by youthful advisers with limited political experience, and Labor’s NSW Right machine.”
But problems included the project-by-project style of dealing with things and the dominance of the Strategic Priorities and Budget Committee.
Going back to Roger J @ 4 and mark @ 16, every Friday on local radio Richard Fidler has a spot with David Salter, now of The Monthly, to chew the fat about politics.
Last Friday Salter said they were doing an article on Rudd’s management style, I think it was, from memory. He said that in no time flat they had about 30 ‘sources’ eager to brief them.
On 6 June in the Fin Review in an article I kept Laura Tingle wrote about “the first signs of a quiet revolt taking place against the way Kevin Rudd has run his government since 2008.” She said it started at the top with Tanner, Swan and Gillard. They were increasingly contesting and trying to reshape political strategy “widely seen as driven by youthful advisers with limited political experience, and Labor’s NSW Right machine.”
But problems included the project-by-project style of dealing with things and the dominance of the Strategic Priorities and Budget Committee.
Trenton @ 116. Agreed. Conroy’s weird apparently religious crusade on net censorship is a real worry. And Kim Carr brokered the Labor deal with Family First that got Steve Fielding elected. Not inspiring at all – and Fielding’s blocking vote was the cause of much of Labor’s grief in the Senate.
Brian @ 140, that sounds like what may have happened. Rudd showed have showed better leadership and political acumen and stuck with the ETS, maybe gone for the double dissolution.
So four of them decided to put the CPRS on ice and one of them may have leaked it? Interesting. And moronic.
Trenton @ 116. Agreed. Conroy’s weird apparently religious crusade on net censorship is a real worry. And Kim Carr brokered the Labor deal with Family First that got Steve Fielding elected. Not inspiring at all – and Fielding’s blocking vote was the cause of much of Labor’s grief in the Senate.
Brian @ 140, that sounds like what may have happened. Rudd showed have showed better leadership and political acumen and stuck with the ETS, maybe gone for the double dissolution.
So four of them decided to put the CPRS on ice and one of them may have leaked it? Interesting. And moronic.
I’m tempted to vote informal.
With respect, tssk: that’s the silliest thing I’ve heard all night. At this point, you may not want the ALP to win, but do you really want Abbott getting in? If you really can’t stomach Gillard, vote the ALP second last and the Libs last. Unless you live in a safe ALP seat like Batman, really – what are you thinking?
As for your suggestion to read the gloatings of Little Tim? As far as I’m concerned, Tim Blair and his minions can take a long walk on a short pier – preferably located as close as possible to the weeping hole formerly known as the Deepwater Horizon. At his best, he’s never come close to matching – let alone aspire to – Larvatus Prodeo at its worst. We know that, and I suspect he knows that too. I’ve got better things to do. For example, I’m going to get a good night’s sleep. Unless you’re staying up for the game against Serbia, I suggest you do the same, tssk. It’s advice I give everyone here.
Good night, all.
I’m tempted to vote informal.
With respect, tssk: that’s the silliest thing I’ve heard all night. At this point, you may not want the ALP to win, but do you really want Abbott getting in? If you really can’t stomach Gillard, vote the ALP second last and the Libs last. Unless you live in a safe ALP seat like Batman, really – what are you thinking?
As for your suggestion to read the gloatings of Little Tim? As far as I’m concerned, Tim Blair and his minions can take a long walk on a short pier – preferably located as close as possible to the weeping hole formerly known as the Deepwater Horizon. At his best, he’s never come close to matching – let alone aspire to – Larvatus Prodeo at its worst. We know that, and I suspect he knows that too. I’ve got better things to do. For example, I’m going to get a good night’s sleep. Unless you’re staying up for the game against Serbia, I suggest you do the same, tssk. It’s advice I give everyone here.
Good night, all.
@142 –
I could have said the same about Anna Bligh.
@142 –
I could have said the same about Anna Bligh.
As unfortunate as this all is Rudd really should’ve resigned at that press conference tonight like he would’ve been told to. He’s only going to be humiliated tomorrow morning. Shorten, Feeney & Farrell orchestrated this coup and when the NSW Right, WA Right & QLD Right all supposedly jumped on board it meant Rudd is done. Ironically the Left are supposedly fracturing over whether to support Rudd or Gillard but that doesn’t mean much.
The reason they made Gillard PM was IMO to lock in victory at the next election. With Rudd while still likely there was a chance Abbott could beat him but that’s out the window now. Rudd’s parting shot out the door at the factional leaders probably won’t win him any favours.
Personally I thought they should’ve gone to the election with Rudd and then Gillard to take over not long after but supposedly internal Labor polling was pretty bad so. Swan’s supposedly now Deputy PM and with Gillard as PM I really can’t see how the government won’t now be re-elected.
As unfortunate as this all is Rudd really should’ve resigned at that press conference tonight like he would’ve been told to. He’s only going to be humiliated tomorrow morning. Shorten, Feeney & Farrell orchestrated this coup and when the NSW Right, WA Right & QLD Right all supposedly jumped on board it meant Rudd is done. Ironically the Left are supposedly fracturing over whether to support Rudd or Gillard but that doesn’t mean much.
The reason they made Gillard PM was IMO to lock in victory at the next election. With Rudd while still likely there was a chance Abbott could beat him but that’s out the window now. Rudd’s parting shot out the door at the factional leaders probably won’t win him any favours.
Personally I thought they should’ve gone to the election with Rudd and then Gillard to take over not long after but supposedly internal Labor polling was pretty bad so. Swan’s supposedly now Deputy PM and with Gillard as PM I really can’t see how the government won’t now be re-elected.
Rudd has very clearly raised the refugee issue as a dog whistle for all those on the left who still resent Gillard’s role in the 2001 election. I think in all this talk about how disliked Rudd is by caucus it’s worth noting that they don’t have a huge amount of love for Gillard either.
Rudd has very clearly raised the refugee issue as a dog whistle for all those on the left who still resent Gillard’s role in the 2001 election. I think in all this talk about how disliked Rudd is by caucus it’s worth noting that they don’t have a huge amount of love for Gillard either.
Mark
I dont think final proposal or anything like it to delay to 2013 went to Cabinet at all , simply broad initial discussion only i understand
Yes deferral did originate from dickhead Arbib brigade , which is why stupid idea even got into room
Lefty
#139
I prev said thats where votes drifted to , wharehoused , and ‘soft’ (recoverable)…but false MSN & opponent polital Partys ‘narative’ on CPRS drove it there…public bought it and switched off listening to Rudd , thats why a change is needed
No lefty , Rudds position on CC was strong , given it was stand alone econamicly againstour 4 major trading partners , and Rudd promised publicly a 25% cut if World did such a deel Try your uneconamic argument even on Obama , his offer is 3% on 1990 levels
No Lefty , no leveling out ever occurs Also Headline Newspoll results when they’re close even leaving aside MOE , ar useless , its marginals Seats that counts , but if you intersted look at 3 Q’ld Labor marginols at 4% moe , all lost on curent polling as an eg…so Julia changeover howevers sad is a reality need that i suport
Mark
I dont think final proposal or anything like it to delay to 2013 went to Cabinet at all , simply broad initial discussion only i understand
Yes deferral did originate from dickhead Arbib brigade , which is why stupid idea even got into room
Lefty
#139
I prev said thats where votes drifted to , wharehoused , and ‘soft’ (recoverable)…but false MSN & opponent polital Partys ‘narative’ on CPRS drove it there…public bought it and switched off listening to Rudd , thats why a change is needed
No lefty , Rudds position on CC was strong , given it was stand alone econamicly againstour 4 major trading partners , and Rudd promised publicly a 25% cut if World did such a deel Try your uneconamic argument even on Obama , his offer is 3% on 1990 levels
No Lefty , no leveling out ever occurs Also Headline Newspoll results when they’re close even leaving aside MOE , ar useless , its marginals Seats that counts , but if you intersted look at 3 Q’ld Labor marginols at 4% moe , all lost on curent polling as an eg…so Julia changeover howevers sad is a reality need that i suport
The tripartite, corporatist nexus between big business, govt. and big unions was a feature of the hawke/keating years. Just remember Bill Shortens personal connections to the Visy empire. Not much has changed since then (yes, there was a decade of less influence by the unions under Howard). Big business is under threat right now, but the old ties still clearly have strength in them yet. These folks all read the same text books at university, lunched at the same restuarants and drank at the same bars – together. We’re collectively mad to think the power brokers of the ALP would forget their role in this play.
The tripartite, corporatist nexus between big business, govt. and big unions was a feature of the hawke/keating years. Just remember Bill Shortens personal connections to the Visy empire. Not much has changed since then (yes, there was a decade of less influence by the unions under Howard). Big business is under threat right now, but the old ties still clearly have strength in them yet. These folks all read the same text books at university, lunched at the same restuarants and drank at the same bars – together. We’re collectively mad to think the power brokers of the ALP would forget their role in this play.
Sleep. Good idea.
Night.
Sleep. Good idea.
Night.
Mark, get excited about a female PM. She’s not Anna Bligh tacked onto a poor decade of state governance. She is at he start of something at least that is the prospect.
Mark, get excited about a female PM. She’s not Anna Bligh tacked onto a poor decade of state governance. She is at he start of something at least that is the prospect.
@154 – Anna, it’s more than that. Gillard’s new besties in the right have been ramping up the rhetoric about moving to the right on asylum seekers for some time.
@158 – Corin, I was seeking to explain why, after the Bligh experience, I don’t necessarily dance in the streets if we get a leader who’s ostensibly from the left.
@154 – Anna, it’s more than that. Gillard’s new besties in the right have been ramping up the rhetoric about moving to the right on asylum seekers for some time.
@158 – Corin, I was seeking to explain why, after the Bligh experience, I don’t necessarily dance in the streets if we get a leader who’s ostensibly from the left.
I suspect Julia wouldn’t have moved unless she was convinced she had the numbers.
All she has to do is say that she feels she can give the leadership that was lacking.
If she succeeds, however we feel about how she got there, it is not a crime and we need to be careful about the luxury of indulging our feelings if it is going to lead to Abbott and his mob on the Treasury benches.
I think Gillard is a magnificent politician in the adversorial arts that it requires, but I have worries about her policy positions and also her style. But if the alternative is Abbott the choice is easy.
I suspect Julia wouldn’t have moved unless she was convinced she had the numbers.
All she has to do is say that she feels she can give the leadership that was lacking.
If she succeeds, however we feel about how she got there, it is not a crime and we need to be careful about the luxury of indulging our feelings if it is going to lead to Abbott and his mob on the Treasury benches.
I think Gillard is a magnificent politician in the adversorial arts that it requires, but I have worries about her policy positions and also her style. But if the alternative is Abbott the choice is easy.
@158 – Corin, I think Rudd had accepted that there was a need to revisit the ETS before the election. A lot of what Gillard stands for, I don’t – not the BER stuff but a lot of the substantive policy in the ‘education revolution’. And I’m deeply troubled by the thinking and the personnel behind this.
Above and beyond that, I think Rudd deserves a lot better from the party than this sort of cowardly backroom crap.
And I say all that with a long record of being sceptical about the bloke.
But this is the wrong move at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.
@158 – Corin, I think Rudd had accepted that there was a need to revisit the ETS before the election. A lot of what Gillard stands for, I don’t – not the BER stuff but a lot of the substantive policy in the ‘education revolution’. And I’m deeply troubled by the thinking and the personnel behind this.
Above and beyond that, I think Rudd deserves a lot better from the party than this sort of cowardly backroom crap.
And I say all that with a long record of being sceptical about the bloke.
But this is the wrong move at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.
Don’t listen to Mark, this was a great decision from the master strategists who brought us Steve Fielding and got NSW Labor where it is today.
Don’t listen to Mark, this was a great decision from the master strategists who brought us Steve Fielding and got NSW Labor where it is today.
Abbott certainly is a no great alternative but neither is a factional driven mincing machine that continually tosses up populist candidates every couple of years. What if Julia tanks in the polls in the next couple of months who is up for the job then?
The thing is with Labor is we do not seem to be getting the best people for the job. We seem to end up with compromise candidates who’s popularity is based upon their ability to deliver a thirty second sound grabs, rather than people who actually believe in what they are doing and have a geniune goal of trying to improve our country.
Abbott certainly is a no great alternative but neither is a factional driven mincing machine that continually tosses up populist candidates every couple of years. What if Julia tanks in the polls in the next couple of months who is up for the job then?
The thing is with Labor is we do not seem to be getting the best people for the job. We seem to end up with compromise candidates who’s popularity is based upon their ability to deliver a thirty second sound grabs, rather than people who actually believe in what they are doing and have a geniune goal of trying to improve our country.
Brian
“..but I have worries about her (Gillard) POLICY positions”
look at her direct responsabilities :
Education: in what She’s guided thru Cabinet biggest School renovation in oz history , in 9500 Schools oz wide covering 24,000 separate programs Brought in a needed National Educaton Syllabus , and MySchool that 80% of Parents luv for obvous reasons of info for informed decisions(needs fine tuning but)
IR : worhchoices a dogs breakfast to unravel , but mark i a fine start….gutted guts of workchoises removing indiv Stat Contracts and nw Fair Pay Group with working standards A mark 11 expect next term
with CC , we shall see , and hope
Brian
“..but I have worries about her (Gillard) POLICY positions”
look at her direct responsabilities :
Education: in what She’s guided thru Cabinet biggest School renovation in oz history , in 9500 Schools oz wide covering 24,000 separate programs Brought in a needed National Educaton Syllabus , and MySchool that 80% of Parents luv for obvous reasons of info for informed decisions(needs fine tuning but)
IR : worhchoices a dogs breakfast to unravel , but mark i a fine start….gutted guts of workchoises removing indiv Stat Contracts and nw Fair Pay Group with working standards A mark 11 expect next term
with CC , we shall see , and hope
The timing is terrible, but now that it’s out in the open … if Rudd wins tomorrow, then Labor is fucked at the election. Simple as that.
The timing is terrible, but now that it’s out in the open … if Rudd wins tomorrow, then Labor is fucked at the election. Simple as that.
I have to say that this whole thing is bizarre. Less than two days ago I was convinced the government would increase its majority. This unprecedented move by the ALP right against Rudd — in effect politically assassinating a PM in a winning position is surely s Mitch Hooke wetdream. I did say two days ago that the ALP, through running dead and pandering to the right, would give losing a red hot go. It’s just that I thought the effort would come from Rudd and the government as a whole rather than from wreckers within. As of today, this next election is too close to call.
The government might yet recover and scrape home of course, but if they do, it will have to rely substantially on some equivalent own goals from the Opposition and likewise, attempting to get all of the possible upside of rolling Rudd (or improbably, perhaps Rudd decisively winning). They will probably have to defer the election until November if Rudd is rolled and have Gillard reverse Rudd’s worst moves — the abandonment of the ETS, the refusal to negotiate with The Greens and the asylum-seeker policy. They cannot of course be seen as allowing the Minerals Council to get a win. Perhaps the best move here would be to adopt the fresh mandate defence. This is such an important issue, they could argue, that at the end of consultation, the ALP will take a new policy to the people at the next election.
All is not lost, but all of a sudden, it is going to be a lot easier to paint the Federal ALP as a lot like the QLD and NSW ALP, and that is easily enough for the ALP to lose what looked just the other day to be the unloseable election.
I have to say that this whole thing is bizarre. Less than two days ago I was convinced the government would increase its majority. This unprecedented move by the ALP right against Rudd — in effect politically assassinating a PM in a winning position is surely s Mitch Hooke wetdream. I did say two days ago that the ALP, through running dead and pandering to the right, would give losing a red hot go. It’s just that I thought the effort would come from Rudd and the government as a whole rather than from wreckers within. As of today, this next election is too close to call.
The government might yet recover and scrape home of course, but if they do, it will have to rely substantially on some equivalent own goals from the Opposition and likewise, attempting to get all of the possible upside of rolling Rudd (or improbably, perhaps Rudd decisively winning). They will probably have to defer the election until November if Rudd is rolled and have Gillard reverse Rudd’s worst moves — the abandonment of the ETS, the refusal to negotiate with The Greens and the asylum-seeker policy. They cannot of course be seen as allowing the Minerals Council to get a win. Perhaps the best move here would be to adopt the fresh mandate defence. This is such an important issue, they could argue, that at the end of consultation, the ALP will take a new policy to the people at the next election.
All is not lost, but all of a sudden, it is going to be a lot easier to paint the Federal ALP as a lot like the QLD and NSW ALP, and that is easily enough for the ALP to lose what looked just the other day to be the unloseable election.
If Rudd loses then the Liberals will argue that the new Leader was brought to you, and controlled by, the NSW Right. Won’t that go down a treat in NSW at the next election?
If Rudd loses then the Liberals will argue that the new Leader was brought to you, and controlled by, the NSW Right. Won’t that go down a treat in NSW at the next election?
Corin, whoever you are, it’s getting immensely irritating to see you dropping in here time and again presuming to tell “LP people” what we think and who we prefer.
In case you hadn’t noticed, many regulars here are very annoyed that the ALP Caucus is choosing the PM, not the Australian electorate. (I have consistency here, I was every bit as annoyed the last time the ALP Caucus chose the PM, back in ’91).
If you refuse to perceive or acknowledge the unhappiness here, and you have no interest in understanding it, then you have a cloth ear at least as thick as the ALP factional
hardheadsrockheads who engineered this bastardry.If you were thinking that “LP people” would or should be a natural to swear fealty to Gillard under these circumstances, then you have misunderstood and miscalculated the nature of support for an ALP government amongst many regulars here which is exactly what we’re complaining about. Yours, and Sussex St’s, read on things isn’t as fine-tuned as you evidently like to believe, which is exactly what we’re complaining about. Your incredulity and failure to perceive or understand this is your problem, not ours.
Corin, whoever you are, it’s getting immensely irritating to see you dropping in here time and again presuming to tell “LP people” what we think and who we prefer.
In case you hadn’t noticed, many regulars here are very annoyed that the ALP Caucus is choosing the PM, not the Australian electorate. (I have consistency here, I was every bit as annoyed the last time the ALP Caucus chose the PM, back in ’91).
If you refuse to perceive or acknowledge the unhappiness here, and you have no interest in understanding it, then you have a cloth ear at least as thick as the ALP factional
hardheadsrockheads who engineered this bastardry.If you were thinking that “LP people” would or should be a natural to swear fealty to Gillard under these circumstances, then you have misunderstood and miscalculated the nature of support for an ALP government amongst many regulars here which is exactly what we’re complaining about. Yours, and Sussex St’s, read on things isn’t as fine-tuned as you evidently like to believe, which is exactly what we’re complaining about. Your incredulity and failure to perceive or understand this is your problem, not ours.
Well, I don’t know. I’m still wating to see what happens
Well, I don’t know. I’m still wating to see what happens
Andrew at 79: The only thing I can agree with you that Rudd is up in the Whitlam bracket. You know, the Prime Minister who made more genuine social reforms than any other PM. Think: (if you can) Medicare, no-fault divorce laws,
free University education, votes for 18-year-olds, the start of tariff reductions to name a few. With Rudd, Think: (if you can) the apology to Aborigines, action that enabled Australia to weather the global financial crisis, the first maternity leave legislation, a start on reforming the health system and, yes, the RSPT which returns some of the plunder of overseas mining companies back to Australian companies (via tax reductions), small business (via tax reductions and incentives) and workers (via increased superannuation). But, please spare us repeating The Australian line. It really is tiresome.
Andrew at 79: The only thing I can agree with you that Rudd is up in the Whitlam bracket. You know, the Prime Minister who made more genuine social reforms than any other PM. Think: (if you can) Medicare, no-fault divorce laws,
free University education, votes for 18-year-olds, the start of tariff reductions to name a few. With Rudd, Think: (if you can) the apology to Aborigines, action that enabled Australia to weather the global financial crisis, the first maternity leave legislation, a start on reforming the health system and, yes, the RSPT which returns some of the plunder of overseas mining companies back to Australian companies (via tax reductions), small business (via tax reductions and incentives) and workers (via increased superannuation). But, please spare us repeating The Australian line. It really is tiresome.
The assumption by some commenters is that Labor will unite under Gillard and become an effective government.
And the pixies at the bottom of the garden will bring us all gold rings by morning.
This is the Labor apparatchiks demonstrating that they run the party, not the parliamentarians. They switch leaders in NSW every few months (and what a successful strategy THAT has been) and now they’ve demonstrated they can do it in Canberra too.
John Robertson for Leader of the Opposition! Hurrah!!
The assumption by some commenters is that Labor will unite under Gillard and become an effective government.
And the pixies at the bottom of the garden will bring us all gold rings by morning.
This is the Labor apparatchiks demonstrating that they run the party, not the parliamentarians. They switch leaders in NSW every few months (and what a successful strategy THAT has been) and now they’ve demonstrated they can do it in Canberra too.
John Robertson for Leader of the Opposition! Hurrah!!
Finally, something the left and the right can agree on!
Finally, something the left and the right can agree on!
The media will tell you its political cowardice that got Kevin Rudd into this situation but infact it’s his courage. The people elected this Prime minister but mining magnates, unions & power brokers get to remove him when he doesn’t do what they want? I don’t understand Democracy anymore!
The media will tell you its political cowardice that got Kevin Rudd into this situation but infact it’s his courage. The people elected this Prime minister but mining magnates, unions & power brokers get to remove him when he doesn’t do what they want? I don’t understand Democracy anymore!
After all the “I heart Julia” concern trolling by conservative commentariat recently, I would thought it obvious that they thought Kevvie was the bigger threat. Seems the ALP backroom boys fell for it.
After all the “I heart Julia” concern trolling by conservative commentariat recently, I would thought it obvious that they thought Kevvie was the bigger threat. Seems the ALP backroom boys fell for it.
@92
And if she wins comfortably and then gets hammered about being a puppet of the faction bosses and unions? And she drops the RSPT and gets labeled as a gutless backflipping lackey of the mining bosses? And is she lurches to the right on asylum seekers and gets accused of having no principles because she’s supposedly from the left?
See LO, it’s your inability to think what the other side might do that has lead to this situation. As I said, gilt edged downside with a modicum of speculative upside as against the strong possibility that a currently winning position would improve even further. It’s a no-brainer. But you and the faction types just don’t understand risk management.
@92
And if she wins comfortably and then gets hammered about being a puppet of the faction bosses and unions? And she drops the RSPT and gets labeled as a gutless backflipping lackey of the mining bosses? And is she lurches to the right on asylum seekers and gets accused of having no principles because she’s supposedly from the left?
See LO, it’s your inability to think what the other side might do that has lead to this situation. As I said, gilt edged downside with a modicum of speculative upside as against the strong possibility that a currently winning position would improve even further. It’s a no-brainer. But you and the faction types just don’t understand risk management.
Ken @ 171 I hope you’re wrong. I’m sorry to see Rudd in this predicament. He deserves better than this, as does the country and the party. But now it’s happened and I’m hoping that in the light of a new day both he and Gillard who have worked so well together this far can find a way, whatever the ballot outcome, of moving forward constructively in the interests of the common good for each other, the ALP and Australia.
Ken @ 171 I hope you’re wrong. I’m sorry to see Rudd in this predicament. He deserves better than this, as does the country and the party. But now it’s happened and I’m hoping that in the light of a new day both he and Gillard who have worked so well together this far can find a way, whatever the ballot outcome, of moving forward constructively in the interests of the common good for each other, the ALP and Australia.
Kevin Rudd is far too autocratic and has shred all his credibility with his climate change backflip and other issues (including asylum seeker political stunt). He is in the wrong party and is frankly one of the worst leaders that the Labor Party has ever had – he is taking this country further to the right. He should resign from the Labor Party and go and join the Liberal Party where he belongs.
Kevin Rudd is far too autocratic and has shred all his credibility with his climate change backflip and other issues (including asylum seeker political stunt). He is in the wrong party and is frankly one of the worst leaders that the Labor Party has ever had – he is taking this country further to the right. He should resign from the Labor Party and go and join the Liberal Party where he belongs.
Yeah, just wait for Rudd’s version of the Latham diaries.
You better hope Caesar’s ghost doesn’t sink the ALP. Or do the apparatchiks not really care about government? Is it about the party? And its fine traditions? The ones that couldnt take a trick until the current PM did it for them?
So long Kev – thanks for, like, government.
Yeah, just wait for Rudd’s version of the Latham diaries.
You better hope Caesar’s ghost doesn’t sink the ALP. Or do the apparatchiks not really care about government? Is it about the party? And its fine traditions? The ones that couldnt take a trick until the current PM did it for them?
So long Kev – thanks for, like, government.
@108
Yer but, the ALP was going to win. What is it that is so hard to understand about that for those of you who have “worked on the hill”? I wouldn’t have a problem with having an orderly handover after the election but what makes you think having a chaotic fight brawl just before the election improves your chances. Can you outline where the upside is?
@108
Yer but, the ALP was going to win. What is it that is so hard to understand about that for those of you who have “worked on the hill”? I wouldn’t have a problem with having an orderly handover after the election but what makes you think having a chaotic fight brawl just before the election improves your chances. Can you outline where the upside is?
Surprise, surprise, Richo’s prediction of the time table comes true. And he has the nerve to talk about a one man band.
One channel nine camera person with a mordant sense of humour out of the passing parade focussed on the sequence of Mike Kaiser ( I thought he’d been given a day job?), Lachlan Harris, Andrew Charlton, a couple of a couple of cookie cutter 30 yr old somethings.
ALP, RIP. Lasting More than a hundred years from conception to corruption wasn’t bad.
How long have they got before they have to call the election?
Surprise, surprise, Richo’s prediction of the time table comes true. And he has the nerve to talk about a one man band.
One channel nine camera person with a mordant sense of humour out of the passing parade focussed on the sequence of Mike Kaiser ( I thought he’d been given a day job?), Lachlan Harris, Andrew Charlton, a couple of a couple of cookie cutter 30 yr old somethings.
ALP, RIP. Lasting More than a hundred years from conception to corruption wasn’t bad.
How long have they got before they have to call the election?
I was on the Rudd bandwagon. When should I jump off?
I was on the Rudd bandwagon. When should I jump off?
Forgot: Bob Ellis was the final element in the 9 cameraperson’s haiku ALP demise sequence.
Forgot: Bob Ellis was the final element in the 9 cameraperson’s haiku ALP demise sequence.
I’m astounded by some of the stuff I’m reading here. Gonna vote informal because the ALP chooses a left-wing woman to be PM? Shocked, shocked! I tell you that the PM is rolled and not “voted in at the election”? Think Julia’s a rat?
I bet every single person on this blog would do what she did in a heartbeat, were you in her position. And if you had seen the internal polling you’d think it an obligation.
It may be dirty and it may be machiavellian and it may be sudden, but this is the ALP folks, so do what Julia’s been doing for the last 4 years – look across the box, see Abbot standing there, and think “that man can never be allowed to stand here.”
I’m astounded by some of the stuff I’m reading here. Gonna vote informal because the ALP chooses a left-wing woman to be PM? Shocked, shocked! I tell you that the PM is rolled and not “voted in at the election”? Think Julia’s a rat?
I bet every single person on this blog would do what she did in a heartbeat, were you in her position. And if you had seen the internal polling you’d think it an obligation.
It may be dirty and it may be machiavellian and it may be sudden, but this is the ALP folks, so do what Julia’s been doing for the last 4 years – look across the box, see Abbot standing there, and think “that man can never be allowed to stand here.”
Personally I think it is just the ALP correcting a mistake they made when they put Rudd in. Probably the ‘glass ceiling’ was the main reason she didn’t get the leadership in the first place.
But Rudd made himself deeply unpopular within the ALP, long before the polls slid away. Too many policies on the run, not well thought out, made by a small kitchen cabinet. Ministers becoming simply mouthpieces for policies already decided on.
Now if he had been right, at least pretty often, he could have got away with it. But he obviously has several intellectual blank spots, plus an arrogance that greatly exceeds his abilties.
There is an old saying “try to manage everything and you end up managing nothing”.Micro management is a fair approach when in a small team, when you the head of a large complex organisation you will fail. No matter how good you are no one can think of everything. Plus micro managers tend to clever tactically but failures strategically and in planning. They get so caught up the details they miss the big picture and tend to be so confident of their abilties they neglect proper plans.
The resources tax is a classic. Now taxing foreign owned companies making squillions out of a resource owned by the commons would be the ultimate no brainer in terms of selling it. Plan out a campaign, sell an easy story .. you’d get 90% support for it.
But that would require listening to others, planning a strategy, then planning the details carefully, delegating appropriately, staying on message, and so on. None of these are Rudd’s strong points.
This is probably what broke the camel’s back within the ALP. You can tolerate a swine in charge that you hate if they are competetent. But if they are incompetent then the pack will decend on them, if for nothing else but sheer self preservation.
The fact that he never managed to create an efffective coalition (or neutralisation) of the different factions and instead seemed to have tried to do the cardinal sin of creating his own personal faction was just icing on the cake.
On the bright side the ALP will now definitely win the next election and (with some deft work) could quite possibly hold its margin over the Libs/Nats (Rudd might have won the next election but with a greatly reduced majority, leading to a crippled Govt).
Plus we get the satisfaction of watching Tony Abbott being drubbed all the time. Doesn’t get better than that.
Personally I think it is just the ALP correcting a mistake they made when they put Rudd in. Probably the ‘glass ceiling’ was the main reason she didn’t get the leadership in the first place.
But Rudd made himself deeply unpopular within the ALP, long before the polls slid away. Too many policies on the run, not well thought out, made by a small kitchen cabinet. Ministers becoming simply mouthpieces for policies already decided on.
Now if he had been right, at least pretty often, he could have got away with it. But he obviously has several intellectual blank spots, plus an arrogance that greatly exceeds his abilties.
There is an old saying “try to manage everything and you end up managing nothing”.Micro management is a fair approach when in a small team, when you the head of a large complex organisation you will fail. No matter how good you are no one can think of everything. Plus micro managers tend to clever tactically but failures strategically and in planning. They get so caught up the details they miss the big picture and tend to be so confident of their abilties they neglect proper plans.
The resources tax is a classic. Now taxing foreign owned companies making squillions out of a resource owned by the commons would be the ultimate no brainer in terms of selling it. Plan out a campaign, sell an easy story .. you’d get 90% support for it.
But that would require listening to others, planning a strategy, then planning the details carefully, delegating appropriately, staying on message, and so on. None of these are Rudd’s strong points.
This is probably what broke the camel’s back within the ALP. You can tolerate a swine in charge that you hate if they are competetent. But if they are incompetent then the pack will decend on them, if for nothing else but sheer self preservation.
The fact that he never managed to create an efffective coalition (or neutralisation) of the different factions and instead seemed to have tried to do the cardinal sin of creating his own personal faction was just icing on the cake.
On the bright side the ALP will now definitely win the next election and (with some deft work) could quite possibly hold its margin over the Libs/Nats (Rudd might have won the next election but with a greatly reduced majority, leading to a crippled Govt).
Plus we get the satisfaction of watching Tony Abbott being drubbed all the time. Doesn’t get better than that.
Finally we have a chance to do away with self serving christian moralists as PMs. Finally Australia walks into the light of a secular 21st century & with a woman. Great for the country, great for women everywhere. How this has happened is ugly and dangerous…we could get Abbott..but then again, we could have always got Abbott. So in my humble view it’s worth the risk (just).
All power and the best to her, and Kevin “pretty boy” Rudd should never have been there in the first place, once he got there all this was inevitable. The media? Yes indeed, ugly bastards, as Mr Denmore rightly tracks, but pretty boy was always just that, and he let the spinners spin him because he actually has a bible where his brain should be.
Finally we have a chance to do away with self serving christian moralists as PMs. Finally Australia walks into the light of a secular 21st century & with a woman. Great for the country, great for women everywhere. How this has happened is ugly and dangerous…we could get Abbott..but then again, we could have always got Abbott. So in my humble view it’s worth the risk (just).
All power and the best to her, and Kevin “pretty boy” Rudd should never have been there in the first place, once he got there all this was inevitable. The media? Yes indeed, ugly bastards, as Mr Denmore rightly tracks, but pretty boy was always just that, and he let the spinners spin him because he actually has a bible where his brain should be.
Rudd has gone. Gillard is now PM, elected unopposed. I really hope she gets a carbon tax in tomorrow.
Rudd has gone. Gillard is now PM, elected unopposed. I really hope she gets a carbon tax in tomorrow.
It’s Julia.
It’s Julia.
I just want to highlight this comment. Couple of people made similar sorts of comments to me via Facebook etc. If people who hate Rudd because he’s too far to the right they will get another think coming when they see the new program from here to the election.
I just want to highlight this comment. Couple of people made similar sorts of comments to me via Facebook etc. If people who hate Rudd because he’s too far to the right they will get another think coming when they see the new program from here to the election.
The funny thing Tyro Rex is that before the election, there was a meme amongst the loonier conservatives that Rudd was the stalking horse for Gillard who would replace him mid-term and proceed to introduce compulsory communism, or something. Well they were correct about the first bit, to my amazement, but I don’t think they have to worry about us becoming the new Venezuela any time soon.
The funny thing Tyro Rex is that before the election, there was a meme amongst the loonier conservatives that Rudd was the stalking horse for Gillard who would replace him mid-term and proceed to introduce compulsory communism, or something. Well they were correct about the first bit, to my amazement, but I don’t think they have to worry about us becoming the new Venezuela any time soon.
@119
I’m afraid lengthier expositions of a weak position won’t really suffice LO. Your inability to reflect is stunning. As has been said before, time and time again, the ALP was NOT losing the election. The ALP HAVE knifed an incumbent. The new PM WAS put there by factional bosses and party operators. It’s just so sad to see someone of obvious intelligence so unable to preference substance over form.
@119
I’m afraid lengthier expositions of a weak position won’t really suffice LO. Your inability to reflect is stunning. As has been said before, time and time again, the ALP was NOT losing the election. The ALP HAVE knifed an incumbent. The new PM WAS put there by factional bosses and party operators. It’s just so sad to see someone of obvious intelligence so unable to preference substance over form.
Let’s just agree to disagree hey PatrickB? I’m no Gillard sycophant. I can see why the challenge was made but also the risks that come with it. Gillard now has to demonstrate that the choice to challenge was the right one. I don’t think any of us can predict with confidence how things will evolve over the next few months.
Let’s just agree to disagree hey PatrickB? I’m no Gillard sycophant. I can see why the challenge was made but also the risks that come with it. Gillard now has to demonstrate that the choice to challenge was the right one. I don’t think any of us can predict with confidence how things will evolve over the next few months.
@191
All right, but I’d still love to hear from someone on the “inside” how they rationalised away the obvious downsides of this move. It’s a bit like the project I’m working at the moment. Absolutely shocking mess. And it can be all traced back to some early decisions that were taken by discounting some very real and obvious risks. And so we’re over time and over budget. Let’s hope the ALP lucks out.
@191
All right, but I’d still love to hear from someone on the “inside” how they rationalised away the obvious downsides of this move. It’s a bit like the project I’m working at the moment. Absolutely shocking mess. And it can be all traced back to some early decisions that were taken by discounting some very real and obvious risks. And so we’re over time and over budget. Let’s hope the ALP lucks out.
Kevin Rudd doing what’s best for the nation right unltil the end choosing not to divide the party. To the prime minister for the people – I say SORRY! Congratulations & good luck to Julia Gillard who supported the policies that destroyed Kevin Rudd??
I must say it concerns me a little that you don’t have to be born in Australia to become Prime minster..
unrelated to todays events and at the risk of inciting anger I will say this.. Imagine an Australia with a Pakistan born Muslim extreemist as Prime minister.. never happen? It’s not an impossibility!
Kevin Rudd doing what’s best for the nation right unltil the end choosing not to divide the party. To the prime minister for the people – I say SORRY! Congratulations & good luck to Julia Gillard who supported the policies that destroyed Kevin Rudd??
I must say it concerns me a little that you don’t have to be born in Australia to become Prime minster..
unrelated to todays events and at the risk of inciting anger I will say this.. Imagine an Australia with a Pakistan born Muslim extreemist as Prime minister.. never happen? It’s not an impossibility!
Ah yes, because such a person will naturally win pre-selection for a federal seat with one of the major parties and then a position on the front bench with that party from where they can launch a viable leadership challenge.
Do learn how our Westminster system of government works.
Ah yes, because such a person will naturally win pre-selection for a federal seat with one of the major parties and then a position on the front bench with that party from where they can launch a viable leadership challenge.
Do learn how our Westminster system of government works.
Well Toni it concerns me a little that any Australian PM isn’t indigenous, since most of us come from somewhere else originally eh? So I’d switch your prejudice off if I were you.
Well Toni it concerns me a little that any Australian PM isn’t indigenous, since most of us come from somewhere else originally eh? So I’d switch your prejudice off if I were you.
Toni, a policy (or lack of it) that destroyed Kevin Rudd was his capitulation on climate change action. A failed CPRS that would have locked in failure and no Plan B – such as a carbon tax that has widespread support.
Here’s hoping Gillard does not make the same mistake – she has an opportunity to deliver some policies that really matter.
Toni, a policy (or lack of it) that destroyed Kevin Rudd was his capitulation on climate change action. A failed CPRS that would have locked in failure and no Plan B – such as a carbon tax that has widespread support.
Here’s hoping Gillard does not make the same mistake – she has an opportunity to deliver some policies that really matter.
Sinister! All these leek-waving Welsh savages coming here to undermine our Westminster system with their delicious toasted cheese dishes.
Sinister! All these leek-waving Welsh savages coming here to undermine our Westminster system with their delicious toasted cheese dishes.
Andrew E @ 129, I hope you’re right.
Actually, I reckon Gillard will win the next election (but I think Rudd would’ve as well). The bonus is we’ll be treated to the spectacle of her devouring Abbott’s still-beating heart – again and again. He’s going to feel like Prometheus by the election.
Andrew E @ 129, I hope you’re right.
Actually, I reckon Gillard will win the next election (but I think Rudd would’ve as well). The bonus is we’ll be treated to the spectacle of her devouring Abbott’s still-beating heart – again and again. He’s going to feel like Prometheus by the election.
Helen, it was their beautiful singing wot undid us.
Helen, it was their beautiful singing wot undid us.
Yes tig Tog , that’s marvelous sumnation, #194. Fits so parallel to Ken Lovell’s take.
Yes tig Tog , that’s marvelous sumnation, #194. Fits so parallel to Ken Lovell’s take.
Re Post 82 Paticia WA. Well done our elected bard. I hoped Scarlett’s other quote, “I’ll think about it tomorrow,” would herald Julia coming to her senses and supporting Kim Rudd in continuing to be our PM. Alas, not so. I am shocked by the events of the last few hours. Not since Howard sent our troops into war, have I been so shocked.
Re Post 82 Paticia WA. Well done our elected bard. I hoped Scarlett’s other quote, “I’ll think about it tomorrow,” would herald Julia coming to her senses and supporting Kim Rudd in continuing to be our PM. Alas, not so. I am shocked by the events of the last few hours. Not since Howard sent our troops into war, have I been so shocked.