An open thread, where at your weekend leisure, you can discuss anything you like.
Life, Culture and Politics from BrisVegas
Larvatus Prodeo was an Australian group blog which discussed politics, sociology, culture, life, religion and science from a left of centre perspective. more»
Frist!
I can’t help but wonder: is the disappointing commentary &c arguing that the Qld floods and cyclone are — to quote Overington’s headline-writing subbie — “Much Ado” (about nothing) due to the thesis that anything that happens in Australia that is outside of SydMel and doesn’t directly affect the folk of Sydney or Melbourne (but more specifically Sydney) is insignificant and unimportant.
After all, we in the rest of Australia should grow up and realise that Parramatta Road’s traffic is much more important than what a Severe Tropical Cyclone which I’ve seen one Sydney blog commentator since descrbe as a “wind squall”.
describe.
Not to mention the brohaha in the Sydney press about the heatwave/oppressive heat during the past week. OK, I know that Sydney has high humidity but the temperatures were around the mid-thirties in coastal Sydney each time I looked. Given the extreme weather in other parts the moaning did seem a bit over the top. TTFU Sydney.
What a contrast, next thing they’ll be whingeing about the banana prices. Grow your own ya mugs, since you appear to have the heat and humidity.
Well parts of Melbourne are flooded now. we had an incredible storm last night. Looking at FB, many friends have half house flooding.
Oh yeah yeah. Heat waves kill people you know. Just letting all you disgruntled non Sydney siders know that while the coast is a balmy 30 inland it’s 40 and up. I had to wet my cat last night. Not a happy experience for me or her. Hey Ootz did you see me on the cyclone thread wishing you well? Well I did. I am glad you came through unscathed. Now I want to let you know Ootzie, I personally am not interested in bananas so you can take em and….. Further, we will all pay for the damage of the cyclone and the floods eventually etc. Nice how it all turns to Sydney city bitchin once the storm passes. Not my fault Overington is a porkchop. We never claimed to be free of em. Bet you have a few too. Sydney’s been donating to the flood appeals too you know. What happened to we are one but we are Queenslandian. Oooh feel the faux love dissipating at the border as we speak. All down the tube then isn’t it? Did you know it’s already over 30 and it’s 8.30 in the morning? Bit of sympathy would not go astray. And finally: You know you’ve always been jealous of Sydney so get over it.
And one more thing after than finale: You drive down Parramatta Road five days a week and let’s see how you fare Terrangeree. In the heat of 40 degrees. With every other bad tempered Sydney sider. Yeah. You’d be longing for a Quietus Kit then. Or a quick brick to the head. Let’s see how you cope then.
Alright, then.
The Age business section has a piece on Gina Rinehart.
Great. Our very own version of the Koch brothers.
Was at Fed Square watching the Julian Assange video and saw the thunderclouds build up. I left as the first drops hit but got thoroughly soaked walking the 20 metres to the tram stop. The trams were stopped in the heaviest downpour, and stopped again when got to Commercial Rd, High St, Dandenong Rd, Carlisle St because although St Kilda Road is on a sand ridge the areas either side were swampy 150 years ago. Eventually walked home.
Casey’s right. Heatwaves kill. They’re no joke. And the imprtant thing is for the media to get the message out loud and clear about what you nedd to survive in them. Drink heaps of water. Sit in a cold bath for an hour or so Be aware of the symptoms of heat stroke. Exhaustion, disorientation, dizziness, cramps etc. I had a very mild attack a couple of years ago. (Armidale is hot as hell in summer and these flats I’m in are particularly bad)and it is very very scary. And if symptoms persist, FFS ring 000.
As for the provincialism, on both sides, I won’t get into that. I lived in five states and I love em all and they all have their drawbacks. (Tassies’ best, but don’t go there in winter. Its a bit like not going to Qld in summer.)
Argueing with Australian Power and Gas over my electricity bill.
My electricity bill has trebled since I installed solar panels on my house, because I pay a higher electricity rate and a higher rental on the metering equipment. It appears that I have been charged for the electricity I generate as well as charged for the electricity I use. I noticed that I had no off-peak usage and the refrigerator is always on.
To be fair, the previous electricity retailer, Origin, didn’t rebate or reduce my electricity bill for electricity generated.
I walked from my place to Fitzroy for a gig last night, owing to the trams not running, in turn owing to flash flooding in the city.
It was heaps of fun – getting drenched, stopping for travellers at a couple of pubs’ bottle shops on the way which were getting by with candle-light.
It was a welcome relief after a stinker of a day. I’ve had more comfortable afternoons in Thailand FFS.
Had my troubles in the past few days, nothing like you lot in Qld and Victoria. But troubles nonetheless. All of them were distracting from my work, so I weren’t happy. HomeCare on Wednesday, a whole afternoon gone,Thursday, the shopping, always an exhausting tax, then a flat inspection in the afternoon – model tenant, me. Friday the dreaded horse needle cancer shot. It was bad this time, hurts like hell now the anaesthetic has worn off. (I’m not one of those big brave salt of the earth types that walks into the doctor’s surgery and says “Give it to me,now, doc. Right in the stomach there. I can take the pain.”) Hell, I have a very high pain tolerance but there are limits. Good news is, no sign of the tumour. Am still in remission and teh hormones are still working. (They pump me full of slow release oestragen or something every three months to reduce my testerone levels to about nil. At least I think that’s what they do.)So the good news bucked me up a bit.
I attended a play in a small theatre yesterday evening. The first 20 minutes consisted of actors miming to the thundrous roar of a tropical-style deluge.
After the rain stopped and the dialogue became audible I was compelled to ponder whether or not the play became more enjoyable.
A row about advertising on blogs, we know, and a spirited defense of freedom of speech at the very place that seems to edit out pretty much all dissenting opinions. Or something.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/oversensitivity-can-only-compromise-debate/story-e6frg6zo-1226000416817
Sounds like an awful few days, Paul.
I live in St. Kilda and the rain last night was absolutely horizontal. Lots off flooding around here. I got off easily with just a bit of flooding in my bathroom. I was going out to a party, but when the rain came I though better of a trip to Carlton, so just stayed home and looked after the dogs.
billie @ 10
Doesn’t surprise me.
Some friends of mine have a fair number of grid connected panels, and and despite the magic wall box telling them the panels are producing a fair amount of energy, and not using any more electricity, their bill has jumped by about 20% in the last quarter.
If/when we sell up and move on, I had always wanted to get a grid connected system, maybe i’ll stay off the grid instead!
joe2,
Goodness me. This is a can of worms, isn’t it? Odd that its coming from the OZ though. Have they taken an anti-gay marriage stance?
The activists were clearly wrong in what they did. So far as I can work out, all or most of these blogs that I’ve visited, and I haven’t visited all of them, publish dissenting opinions. (They wouldn’t be much fun if they didn’t.) This is a bad look for the gays, but its not the first time the left has behaved as if its on the far right and it probably won’t be the last.
Like that line about all these blogs being a bit extreme or somethink. Pot calls ketle black.
(FWIW, I support gay marriage, not because I support gay marriage per se, but because everybody who wants to get married has the right to do so once they reach 18. Or at least they should have that right. But its not something I’d go out on the streets about.)
Rain through roof – carpet is cactus. The Age reports Julia Gillard will dump Kevin Rudd’s Health Reform (and many more Labor supporters). So far not so good Saturday except for our dog which always seems to know when we have a lot on our plate and exudes sympathy as only doggies can.
I need to work out a bumper menu for tonight to cheer us all up. If only the same remedies would work for all those throughout Australia who are being dealt blows because of the freakish weather.
What a load of rubbish from Pearson. Secondary boycotts? Could I suggest that companies have the right to advertise wherever they wish and if they don’t like the editorial content of a blog, it’s their right not to spend their money there. Any article which includes the phrase “political correctness gone mad” is unthinking bunkum.
Fine @ 15,
Oh, they were. And I always get stressed out before the big needle. And I was insomniac last night. Apparently I’m the only person in the world that Zoladex makes insomniac as well as drowsy. But I’m getting back to writing today. (Did get a few nores taken for another chapter amid all the chaos.)
The Courier-Mail today carries a story by Steve Wardill accusing the Bligh Government of incompetence and mendacity in its management of the cyclone. Apparently planned delivery of cyclone shelters after Cyclone Larry hasn’t been fully implemented. And some arrangements for evacuation centres weren’t made until 24 hours before the cyclone’s arrival. Given the astounding success of this same planning in preventing loss of life, this must deserve some award for gratuitous criticism. Langbroek would do well to stay clear of it, but it seems he’s been tempted to put his two bob’s worth in.
Japan over 35 degrees is far worse than Sydney at 41. I suffered through 6 weeks above 30, two straight weeks above 35 this year and I would gladly swap it for just 6 days of Sydney’s 41.
Oh, Pearson.
I didn’t see that. Poor eyesight. (But thats going to get fixed too. I take back everything I say except my support for gay marriage, because this places the whole thing in a totally different context.
This is a conservative Catholic thing. I’ve been engaged in a fierce though not heated debate with one of my close Catholic friends on this topic. My argument is that we live in a democracy and in a democracy everybody should have equal rights and one of those equal rights is the right to marry once you reach marriageable age. (Cynical comment about the institution of marriage omitted). Therefore if you are gay and you live in a democracy you should have the right to get married.
At which point he quotes Leviticus or Jesus or something. At which point I should drag out my tarot cards and wave them round and say, “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live!” But I never do. We are actually very good friends.
Fine @ 19
The point is that LP is being punished by withdrawal of ads, not because of its stance on gay marriage — if it has one — but because of its membership of Domain, a marketing tool to aggregate the site numbers for political blogs of every political persuasion.Don’t you care about the financial viability of the site?
If you don’t like the term political correctness, that’s OK, but barring any content that might offend anyone from a political blog strikes me as extravagantly silly.
Oh dear, I’m going to have to cut back on chardonnay and lattes, with the $0.00 I currently receive for writing on LP being decimated…
On the broader point, I might have a more considered response later.
This seems bound to be a headache for Mark and co.
The total contribution to LP’s Lifeline flood appeal have been miserly. I hope more of us are prepared to fork out directly to LP to make up for this direct hit.
What another affected blog says:
http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2011/02/05/of-secondary-boycotts-free-speech-and-revenue/
CP, you are correct that these decisions have cash-flow consequences for those bundled blogs, including LP.
You are incorrect when you assert that the Trade Practices Act may be invoked successfully in this case. No boycotts of any kind have occurred in this case. You owe it to your readers not to fill their heads with such fanciful notions.
LP or any other blog is entirely within its rights to withdraw from the bundle and to set editorial policies designed to maximise advertising revenue, should the operators so desire. They are grown up folks capable of making their own decisions about that. My guess is that, once costs are covered, any additional revenue is peripheral to their thinking. I should suggest that LP’s operators prefer to say what they believe rather than to pander to advertisers.
This is a misstatement of the case:
1. LP and many other blogs reserve the right to moderate, to edit, to censor and to exclude. Occasionally, LP has done all of these things.
2. The fixed costs of setting up a blog are virtually zero. Any crackpot with any bee in his bonnet can do so. You must know that already. Virtually no content is barred from the internet.
3. While some corporations may be excessively cautious about their association with some ideas, the possibility that they may be associated with crackpots is everpresent. In general, their caution is justifiable from both commercial and ethical viewpoints.
Again Christopher, isn’t that just advertisers choosing where they wish to spend their dollars? Isn’t this just capitalism at work? And wasn’t it ever so?
@ 14, 19 & 24
“Freedom of Speech” is irrelevant to where an advertiser chooses to advertise. It could be that advertising on political blogs is not cost-effective for the advertiser in question.
Casey @ 6:
You have more tickets on yourself than a tram conductor.
Woot, moving my banking to ANZ on Monday
)
Furthermore the Australian ‘reserves the right to edit’ my comments, so it would appear that their freedom and mine are divisible.
In response to Katz and Fine
I refer you to the precise terms of the ANZ spokesman’s explanation and Helen Dale’s commentary on secondary boycotts at skepticlawyer. I have no particulat legal expertise, but a number of legal friends assure me that this could constitute a case of secondary boycott. I’m told that the argument would concentrate on the rationale for pulling ads from sites that had not offended the advertisers in the way On Line Opinion is said to have done. The argument that it was a matter of general policy regarding political sites as such seems hard to sustain in view of the continued advertising on New Matilda.
I take it as a given that serious sites will vet and even sometimes suppress comment, but Young’s point that IASH’s code would prevent any but anodyne comment is what should concern anyone who believes in free speech.
Fine asks if it isn’t just a case of capitalism at work. To which I suppose the answer is well,yes,but that the law regulates trade practices and takes a dim view of corporations exercising their market power indiscriminately.
It would be interesting to see a court case being launched, as I doubt it would get very far. Advertisers choose to put their money where they want.
And it is funny to see anything in ‘The Australian’ concerned with freedom of speech, as the voices that get to speak on its pages come from such a narrow range. Colour me sceptical about all the hand-wringing. Of course, it’s the horrid, politically correct left who have caused this to happen. ‘The Australian’ would probably be applauding the bravery of the advertisers if you reversed the politics.
“When I spoke to him on Wednesday, Young said it wasn’t the first time advertisers had made life hard. A group called Ethical Investments had objected after their ads sometimes appeared on pages alongside articles questioning anthropogenic global warming.”
As an investor with the above mentioned group, I applaud their decision. Why should they have to support numbskulls?
News Corp only publishes comments that reinforce their world view, thus leaving their blogs devoid of centrist, socialist or left wing commentary. My friends SMS whenever their comments slip past the moderator.
Scepticlawyer http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2011/02/05/of-secondary-boycotts-free-speech-and-revenue/ is a nice little hate-speech waste of espace.
prima facie that looks calculated to cause offence and or hate of a group or individual. I think I might get in contact with their remaining sponsors.
Just a quick comment on this:
(a) I was contacted on Thursday by Christopher Pearson for comment on this for his column. However, I wasn’t in a position to do so, because I didn’t receive the email from Graham Young about the issue until late on Friday morning – it had been sent to an old email address which is no longer operative. By that time, I was far too busy at work to have a proper look at it.
(b) I don’t see that there necessarily is a “secondary boycott” – except in the non-legal sense that LP and other blogs are affected by decisions made by advertisers based on publication at OLO rather than anything published here or on the other sites for which OLO brokered advertising. That’s unfortunate from our point of view, as we are impacted on by a response to decisions we did not make, but I don’t have the legal expertise to say whether or not there’s any substance to the view that it’s a “secondary boycott”.
(c) I do think that the advertisers and the agency could have been more transparent in advising Young of their response.
(d) LP was only receiving very minimal amounts of income from the aforesaid advertising; it had been reasonable for a while after first set up, but declined precipitously during the GFC and never really recovered. The revenue received certainly did not enable any of us to receive decent remuneration for writing; such income as there was went to site costs and a bit of “beer money”.
(e) Whether or not LP wants revenue is probably a separate question; I see it mainly as a set of decisions about where we would like to take the site, the possibility of some being acted on being perhaps dependent on revenue flow.
(f) I don’t share the view that this decision by ANZ and IBM has much to do with free speech. Bill Muehlenberg and other authors who want to communicate their views have endless opportunities to do so; whether anyone reads such opinion or whether anyone ought to receive revenue for publishing it are not themselves questions of free speech. I’d agree that it seems to be the normal processes of capitalism at work when advertisers make decisions about where to place their dollar.
@17
I think it’s rather insidious that the anti-same-sex-marriage chap is described as pro-family. Makes him seem really nice. Of course he holds a bigoted attitude towards homosexuals, seems they threaten the institution of the family, the cornerstone of our community. I wonder why he thinks that? Anyway, I’d say he’s more anti than pro.
http://politicsoftheplate.com/?p=753
“On Thursday, the Obama administration showed whose side it is on in the battle between proponents of sustainable, organic agriculture and the big businesses that profit from conventional, chemical agriculture. Big Ag won. It wasn’t even close.
Because GMO products are not allowed in USDA certified foods, it could become all but impossible to produce organic milk and meat in many areas unless organic farmers switch to less desirable sources of forage.”
Way to neuter the competition.
Yep, Christopher, you are fighting for a noble cause, on this blog, that would never scrap your comments;having published an article at an organisation that actively stifles opinions.
Billie is correct@36. News Corp is actually very picky about what free speech it will allow.
Exactly, Mark.
I read SL’s post. She doesn’t like secondary boycotts. I disagree because I see them as a legitimate form of lobbying. But, each to their own. But, I don’t think she offers a strong argument as to why advertisers making commercial decisions constitute a secondary boycott. And the little bit of the gay-hating wasn’t very nice and only undermined the argument.
@42 – I haven’t read the SL post, Fine.
I also wonder at the view that there’s some sort of right to advertising income; I suspect that’s more part of a mindset among those in the media business than anything to do with the law. Certainly, News Limited might be concerned if large corporations decided to make decisions about where to place their advertising spend based on opinions expressed in their publications. But I would have thought that the usual view expressed by those who support free markets would encompass and legitimate such decisions.
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2009/05/04/74795_grain-and-hay.html
A LEADING weed scientist has given a boost to the anti-genetic modification lobby by declaring that growing GM crops is leading to “superweeds”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/business/energy-environment/04weed.html?pagewanted=all
“For 15 years, Eddie Anderson, a farmer, has been a strict adherent of no-till agriculture….But not this year.
“We’re back to where we were 20 years ago,” said Mr. Anderson, who will plow about one-third of his 3,000 acres of soybean fields this spring, more than he has in years.
Farm experts say that such efforts could lead to higher food prices, lower crop yields, rising farm costs and more pollution of land and water.”
Various industry shills and boosters still keep trying to tell everyone that GM crops are the next Green revolution, whereas the reality is that GM crops will likely be the next Dust Bowl.
Word, FDB: Melbourne has defintitely become more humid in the 10 years I have lived here.
And I ought know – Im an internal migrant from Brisbane’s appalling, narcolepsy-inducing summer humidity.*
Anyone who thinks climate isnt already happening is now officially canoeing a river in Egypt.
(*OTOH, I would say Brisbane probably has world’s best weather from April-October.)
Mark @ 38
It will be very interesting to see whether we are talking about a seconday boycott in a legal or, as you think, “a non-legal” sense. For starters, can you quantify what ANZ and IBM’s decision regarding On Line Opinion has cost LP already and what it will cost you for the rest of the financial year, assuming that your site stats hold up? What of a site that had to close down for lack of funds as a result of the decision? Do you think it would have no legal remedies ?
As for the freedom of speech implications of the ANZ’s decision, the first sentence of its own statement echoes the jargon of the industry code on hate speech and universal freedom from offence. It needs stressing that this is a far more onerous test than any imposed by the law itself and it seems to me a very clear infringement of free speech. Enforcing such a code — reflexively, with minimal transparency, partially as well as indiscriminately (ie not including New Matilda)on political blogs surely compounds the infringement.
@28
Well the Oxford don over at SL seems to think there might be a case. It’s there if you can get through all the stuff about what Helen Dale is up to. This is what I wrote over there (in moderation, I’ve been bad in the past, free speech and all)
Look, I think it’s all a bit disingenuous. The article is obviously wrong and offensive so why publish it? Sure there’s a free speech issue but no one’s stopping our “pro-family(??)” bigot from putting his bilge out there. The advertisers made a decision in their own self interest, that is they feel that associating themselves with this type of commentary puts them at risk of losing market share. Likewise Graham Young (hardly a “mild conservative”) thought he’s stir the pot a bit and got bitten on the bum, not the first time a smartarse stunt has unintended consequences. If the advertisers feel it’s worth then maybe they’ll come back. I’d suggest being a bit more careful with the whole contrarian play. It hasn’t really worked for The Australian.
Yep, flash flooding in melbs last night. Its recently occurred to me that Ms LE and I might have subconsciously nested on one of the three pathetically small hills in all inner Melbourne – which is basically tack-flat in comparison with other east coast cities.
A bit like Greek Australians who cemented the lawn – bringing the old country of Brisbane with us. I just dont feel *safe* on the flat.
@46 – Christopher, as I said, none of LP’s writers receive remuneration, and the majority of ad revenue we took in last year went to site costs, particularly those associated with a hack. We have a new arrangement for hosting, which is much more cost effective than our old one. We’re really not in any danger of closing down – we have not earned any advertising income since December when the OLO brokered ads ceased appearing, and we’re still here. I’m confident – should we need financial support – that crowdsourcing funds from our readers would be effective, as with New Matilda raising money for their relaunch.
If we do decide to go down the advertising route again, that would be accompanied by an analysis of what we could do to improve the site, and whether that would require revenue, and how much. It may well be that – as with some US liberal blogs – we’d directly approach advertisers who want to support the sort of content we provide, and want to pitch to the readers we have.
OLO is in somewhat of a different position, because they seek to publish a spectrum of opinion, while we don’t have any mission to do so. Still, I don’t see the force of the argument that the advertisers can’t decide not to support such a publication if they so choose. Graham Young may well have a good argument that OLO deserves support on the basis of its comprehensive ideological spectrum, but really, the way the market works, surely, is that those with the dollars determine how much weight they put on that.
There may be a bit of a ghost of the “advertising interfering with editorial decision” argument here, but blogs have never really attempted to be journals of record, or non-partisan in the same way that newspapers have sometimes claimed to be so, and I’m not sure it’s applicable. Generally speaking, it’s very difficult to make money on the internet in publishing public affairs. That’s something I wish were different, in that I think there is a public good served by the interchange of views, but in a market economy, it’s difficult to see the logic of an argument that corporations are bound to support such a good.
Fine @ 42
You say you’ll agree to disagree with SL about secondary boycotts, because you see them as a legitimate form of lobbying. Isn’t the point here that,according to her,the Trade Practices Act says they’re illegal, whatever anyone thinks of them? I think she’s also saying that the advertisers weren’t making what you’d call straight commercial decisions, insofar as punishing OLO has the consequence of damaging other sites which hadn’t committed the same offence. Mark’s notion of a problematical entitlement to ad revenue doesn’t really cut it either. After all, you had ongoing contracts which were terminated, and apparently terminated in an arbitrary, unreasonable way.
Agree about the humidity Lefty E. I call it ‘tropical weather’ and has been more noticeable in past 2-3 years. Thunderstorms even! Crikey. A lot of rain – haven’t heard if the catchments caught it yet – hope so. Makes you think of those up North who have had this sort of rain for months. Poor buggers.
With all the water, Melbourne has sewerage problems. Just called SE Water about the floaters floating up instead of flowing away – apparently they have been inundated with calls about like problems. Could even identify localities, like the street around the corner. At least save me the cost of a plumber, hopefully all sorted out in 24 hours as water table subsides, I guess.
Quite a few 100- and 200-year events happening this year, not to mention the US cold snaps. I’m sure its nothing to worry about. I say we just keep pissing in our sandpit per usual, especially if others don’t stop, and sneak a piss-stain costs advantage over us. Who’s with me??!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/05/3130698.htm
Yep Charlie- unlike Brisbane (all hills) Melbs wasnt designed for big water movements. Ive noticed everything goes to shit quite quickly here when there’s a large downpour – which despite its reputation, Mebourne doesnt normally get.
The case in question is not a secondary boycott because the blogs in question agreed to enter into a consortium to attract advertisements. In other words they were a single commercial entity (the second party) for the purposes of the advertising agreement, not a gaggle of “third parties”.
Any of those blogs is free to walk away from the consortium, in which case the commercial arrangements pertaining to it would be null and void.
If what the advertisers did is a boycott at all it is a primary boycott, which is perfectly legal.
Yes, that makes sense, Katz.
@Christopher, I don’t think “ongoing contract” is the right way to characterise this either; my understanding is that OLO had an agreement with a broker to sell what ads they could to fill the space. No revenue was ever received direct from advertisers; it was filtered through the broker. ANZ and/or IBM, in other words, never had a direct contractual relationship with the site/s concerned, and, as I understand it, no commitment to ongoing purchase of advertising space. I don’t know how things work in newspapers, but my understanding always was that the broker would do their best to sell the space and their part of the deal was to try to book enough ads to do so at any point in time, something which frequently wasn’t achieved. We were always also at their mercy as to how much was charged.
In other words, the only contractual obligation was on the broker to attempt to sell the space, and to return 50% of the resultant revenue to OLO.
As I said above Christopher, I don’t think SL made a strong argument as to how advertisers choosing where they place their ads constitutes a secondary boycott. But if someone wants to take ANZ to court and find out, good on them.
I don’t know that advertisers make anything other than commercial decisions at any time, and I’ve worked in advertising. For instance, I invest money with Ethical Investments. I’m pleased that they gave Graham Young a hard time and to do so is the correct commercial decision, imo. As an investor, that’s what I want them to do and if they don’t I may take my money elsewhere. That’s their right. That’s my right. I maybe more of a libertarian than you and SL are!
For the rest Patrick @47 pretty much sums up my feelings about it. It maybe that the views of Bill Muehlenberg and his ilk are becoming commercially unpalatable.
And I know nothing about LP’s commercial relationships and contracts. I’m just a garden variety poster.
For those who are idle:
http://evillibrariansupervillain.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/bodice-rippers-21-of-the-most-ridiculous-romance-novels-ever/
Great footage of Elwood Canal flooding. Love the homespun reporting, but please take it with a large grain of salt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOH_sNmcHmE
Anyone who thinks Melbourne’s climate hasn’t changed in the last few years has lost use of their senses.
Charlie the problems with the sewer is that they were built in 1880. In my area flats have been built over the past 40 years so it averages out at 8 households behind every street number.
Has the sewer been upgraded? No
When you notice sewerage seeping on the road at the high point you know there is a problem.
@50
“you had ongoing contracts which were terminated, and apparently terminated in an arbitrary, unreasonable way”
Then sue on the contract, you don’t need the TPA. If SL ever finishes their studies you can have them represent you.
Mark — I don’t know whether the manner of payment, via the agency, is crucial to the argument about a continuing (quasi-contractual?) relationship. No doubt SL would have a view. Her argument about secondary boycotts still strikes me as more compelling than Katz’s,in part because K doesn’t recognise the presence of the ad broker as the second party, with obligations to both the advertisers and the sites, which boiled down I suppose would have to be be both individual and collective, and thus another avenue for litigation.
Fine — you say that you don’t know that advertisers make anything other than commercial decisions, which is only true if you rely on the circular definition that a decision which involves commerce is ipso facto commercial. Clearly some advertisers sometimes make decisions that are driven primarily by other considerations, including charitable(see otherwise incomprehensible church-related advertising) and purely ideological( see the slow take-off of advertisers chasing the gay dollar).
There’s another point that seems to me to be in danger of getting lost here. Serious political blogs need enough revenue to audit site stats& monetise their traffic, to pay for site upgrades & redesign, beer money, incidentals and payment for unemployed contributors. Airy disdain about revenue streams isn’t sensible.
No, the broker is merely an agent of the parties of the second part (the consortium of blogs).
A significant number of SL’s fans are gay. The above claims that she has said something homophobic demonstrate an inability to read for nuance on the part of the accusers, methinks.
Billie@59. Our area is relatively new, more like ’60s, so guess problems must be part of overall backlog. BUT, some thing applies for storm water where we have been listed as 1:100 flood risk. Basic issue… the storm water pipes are too small and no-one will replace them (or wants to pay to replace them) – hence a flood risk.
Christopher, I think the whole thing is a bit circular, as I see no evidence of there being secondary boycotts. I think you’re really reaching here. I also think there’s a fair bit of grandstanding about free speech going on. I suggest if it’s such a concern of yours that you have a little chat to your bosses at News Ltd. about the content in their papers.
It’s odd that I haven’t even noticed the ads have disappeared. But, then I didn’t pay them much attention in the first place. so much for the power of advertising.
Well, no, Christopher. We only need to “monetise our traffic” if we’re desiring to make money for some particular purpose.
It certainly does help to have some income from writing if one is not fully employed elsewhere, and that at times could be a factor, particularly when we’re talking about people who are in insecure employment as sessional academics.
But I also think you underestimate the power of donation and crowdsourcing – site design and maintenance here are performed voluntarily. That’s not without some benefit for those who do it, as it does help to maintain and advertise IT and design skills.
However it’s just not right to suggest that we *need* income derived from advertising – at the moment. As I said, if we believe we do, that belief would be founded on a decision that we want to do more with the place than we are currently doing – which might well include paying contributors, etc. If we rethink things in that direction, we’ll certainly be letting people know!
OLO is in somewhat of a different position as it’s not a blog but a website which seeks to employ professional staff, and make a return to its owner which comprises a substantial part of his income.
“I also think there’s a fair bit of grandstanding about free speech going on. I suggest if it’s such a concern of yours that you have a little chat to your bosses at News Ltd. about the content in their papers.”
Yes, Christopher, will you address what Fine is suggesting here? It’s not just content at the firm but attempts to silence by legal threat and the refusal to publish online opinions that do not fit with the editorial line.
Fine @ 64
I’d like to see you engage with SL’s argument,as I’m sure you could if you tried, rather than just sounding underwhelmed by it.
Christopher, I’m not seeing an argument on SL’s blog. I’m seeing assertion without evidence.
Joe @ 67
I’m quite prepared to be judged on my record of 20 years as an independent, pluralistically-minded editor and publisher of magazines.
Christopher@69, the point being made is that your admirable concerns for freedom of speech being maintained in the fledgling blogosphere do not seem to extend to the organisation you work for that is notorious for stamping, in various ways, on those that do not hold with corporate political line.
I do not doubt your record in other areas, just this most obvious contradiction.
I dunno, Joe2, is it? I worked for Melbourne University for 17 years and there were lots of things about the place that I didn’t like, but I did my job, and they paid me to do it and no mucking about expecting me to justify their ways to man (and woman). Christopher is a columnist, not the editor, much less the owner and operator. Would you be prepared to go to bat for the organisation you work for, and all its works and views? Or feel required to respond if someone demanded that you do so?
@62
Not a Del credere agent then Katz?
Note to bush lawyers (and Sceptic Lawyer).
The Trade Practices Act is no more. As of January 1, it was replaced by the Competition and Consumer Act.
This is interesting.
Cameron joins Angela Merkel – Multiculturalism has failed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994
I’m wondering how many data points in a row AGW deniers will caution us against generalising from single data points?
P.C. I rather like the way Christopher pops in here and has his say. This time about issues around freedom of speech.
If I head over to his world, as I did recently to make a comment about an article written by one of his colleagues Mirko Bagaric, it is not valued and censored immediately.
I think it reasonable to ask why, if he values the right of OLO to chew the fat, his mob prefer me and many frustrated others to piss in the wind.
@68
Quite right. SL has a frolic about the Roman’s attitude to homosexuality and then asserts:
“That does not mean, however, he should be silenced. It particularly does not mean that Graham Young, Online Opinion and by extension all the blogs Graham brokers advertising for should be taken to endorse anything or everything Bill Muehlenberg says. That, my friends, is straying into secondary boycott territory.”
First off no one’s been silenced and secondly, here’s the definition of secondary boycott.
“A secondary boycott involves action by two or more people acting in concert, which prevents a third party, such as a potential customer or supplier, from dealing with or doing business with the target.”
That definition comes in connection with a case to do with the CFMEU, http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/773130
In that case “the union officials hindering or preventing third parties from supplying concrete, sand and related services”
It seems to me that that success depends upon showing that some positive act has taken place against a third party with the intent of causing damage to a target. In this case no one has prevented the advertisers from advertising on OLO. It is a decision by the advertisers. There isn’t the equivalent of a CFMEU picket line stopping the advertisers from doing business. Also who is the target of the action and where is the damage?
Also, in general if you publish inflammatory material expect outrage. Like I said, disingenuous.
What beats me about this withdrawal of advertising from ONO because of the lobbying of pro-marriage gay activists because some right wing Xtan nutter wrote a piece against gay marriage to balance the several pro-gay marriage pieces ONO had already publishedm (phew – what a sentence) is: why didn’t somebody advdvise these activists that such behaviour was politically stupid. It was politically stupid for two reasons. Firtst, the Right would pick up on it and turn it into an anti-gay cause celebre, which seems to be happening. Secondly, it was politically stupid because, as I understand it, most of the community supports the rights of gays to marry. If there was a plebiscite tomorrow asking do you support legal marriage for gay couples, probably 55 to 60% of the population would vote in favour of it. The campaign, of course would be awful on both sides, but it would get through. And it will happen, probably in the next tenyears when we get political leaders with a modicum of political courage.
Dr. Cat @72, I think the difference is one of context. I don’t expect Christopher to defend everything his employer does. Nor would I expect anyone to take work only from organisations with whom they completely agree. But, making a criticism about ‘free speech’ in a publication which is hardly encourages any writing outside a narrow ideological range is one of the issues for me. If it was raised in something like the ‘Adelaide Review’ for instance, I’d have a different response.
I think in this case it’s The Oz complaining about the the left (although gay activism isn’t necessarily from the left) stopping an extreme right wing organisation having its say. Poor Bill Muehlenberg is being silenced and consequently even progressive blogs will suffer, as well as the noble principal of freedom of speech.
Invoking the idea of secondary boycotts here is just silly. Advertisers aren’t happy with the performance of an advertising broker so they’re taking their dollars elsewhere. No-one is preventing them from dealing with any blog they want. They could deal directly with LP or SL. Another broker could take up the deal. OLO made an error of judgement. And Bill Muehlenberg will still have many venues where he can have his say.
Fine @ 80
You say advertisers aren’t happy with the performance of an ad broker so they’re taking their dollars elsewhere.
I think it’s far closer to the mark to say the ad agency is the broker in this situation and that, although Graham Young suggested collaborating in the Forum and has a hands-on role in managing matters as the most visited, businesslike site,it’s in his capacity as On Line Opinion editor that the advertisers are unhappy with his performance. There is a difference. As Eliot put it : “neither shall the agent suffer nor the patient act”.
The advertisers could easily have excluded OLO and continued to give everyone else their ads in the last month had they wanted to spare unoffending parties, but didn’t.
As to being answerable for my employers, I think Dr Cat got it right.
Peace Casey. My apologies, as Paul B @9 says ,no need for provincialism, particularly when natural disasters are involved. You are quite right Overington is an insult to journalism and Parramatta Road a man made disaster in its own league.
Re Pearson’s beat-up in the Oz – as someone who was peripherally involved in the brouhaha at OLO, let me just say that Young’s version of events is so self-serving as to be disingenuous.
The issue was never about Young’s publication of Muehlenberg’s article. Rather, it was about Young’s far from balanced moderation of comments about that and other articles that touch on homosexual rights. That is, he consistently allowed some of the most offensive and virulent homophobic comments to stand, while coming down heavily on anybody who argued against them in anything other than the meekest language. Lobbying of advertisers only happened after Young refused to adopt a more balanced approach, or indeed to acknowledge that ouright vilification was anything other than fair comment.
The same approach applied to pretty well any issues that might invite a “progressive” defence – notably climate change, multiculturalism, asylum seekers etc. Having said that, I’ve noticed that Young has belatedly acted to discipline some of the worst wingnuts who infest his site, but it’s perhaps unsurprising that it took financial pressure for him to do so.
Well, I’d say @83 has pretty much put the nail in the coffin of OLO’s credibility on this issue. Secondary boycotts are not a goer at all and now we find that further to the offence caused by the original publication, OLO’s editor did nothing to mitigate the damage. Doesn’t look like this one’s going to get out of lawyers office. It just goes to show, you can’t always believe what you read in the paper particularly if it’s in “The Heart of the Nation”.
In my experience OLO is a predominately right wing venue. Certainly it has a majority of rightwing content and much of what’s in the comments is standard rightwing verballing and denigration. It may have become a little more strident and this might be starting to frighten the horses as it were. Ironic isn’t it that advocates of the free market are looking for protection from the market because there’s no market for what they have on offer.
Thanks Ootz. I was kidding around, so no need for any apologies. But after what you’ve been through, you get free reign to strip off all the sydney tickets you like, I’d say.
Christopher, I don’t want to be getting into the exact circumstances of how this came about, because plainly I cant know. CM Morgan has describe another version of events. I’m just saying I don’t think it’s case of secondary boycotts.
And as I said, I wouldn’t expect you to defend or agree with the actions of your employer, but the The Oz is so dodgy in its politics, that if you’re going to talk about freedom of speech in its not so august pages, then there’s a problem for me.
“As to being answerable for my employers, I think Dr Cat got it right.”
Wink, wink and say no more, Chris!
It’s hard to imagine why he turned out to be such a bastard when his mum seems so nice.
SL lawyer’s latest comment over on their blog is a doozy, for all the wrong reasons. And I think it’s indicative (in a negative way) of why LP has been so successful whereas the right wing blogs seem unable to get to the next level. I don’t think I need to spell it out, it’s inherent in contemporary conservative politics.
Casey @ 85:
I didn’t think I was criticising Sydneysiders per se @ 1, but criticising the provinical Sydney attitude of much of our networked “national” commercial media.
Well, I said in my first comment this was a can of worms. Obviously there’s a lot more to come out on this. Am not going to say any more because its abundantly clear I do not have full inforemation and can only jump to the wrong conclusions. So apologies to anyone who thought my comments were unfair. (I generally don’t visit ONO because of its rightwingedness.)
I wonder what a can of worms would actually taste like, Paul?
Probably you would need to add chili sauce or something.
I think a can of worms would taste rather like worms, joe2.
Unless you decided to eat the actual can, which would taste a bit tinny (and would be very crunchy).
Thanks Terangeree. Don’t worry about Casey she was suffering.
Hey, did you see this cover of the mgmt song?
Not sure what a can of worms would taste like. When I was a kid I used to roast worms under a magnifying glass. And ants. I was a very strange child, apparently. According to my now deceased rellies nobody quite knew what to do with me except give me books and take me to the movies. And church, in the hope something would rub off.
I was channel surfing just now and came across The Jason Ross Tonight Show on TVS channel 44. It was playing the anti-Garrett “Batts are Burning” video clip. I reckon this Jason Ross is a stalking horse for the Liberal Party.
Just an update one the secondary boycotts stoush (I know, leave it alone PatrickB otherwise you’ll go blind). Over on SL someone called DeusExSomething has tried to use the HLS (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11599380) case to support the idea that a secondary boycott action. AS far as I can tell these people were all convicted under criminal provisions. AS I said, the quality of the rightwing blogosphere is awful, even when they do try to make a coherent argument they end up babbling.
Like carp, I’d imagine worms taste like what they live in.
Probably fucking delicious, if you get the conditions right.
Otherwise, like the massive carp I pulled out of the muddy Goulburn River last week, even a hungry labrador won’t eat it. Even if you fillet it and debone it and make nice bite-sized cubes of flesh.
A fish eating labrador. Now I’ve heard everything. I had a cat once that was big on thinly sliced tomatoes lightly salted. But they had to be bright red. Put a pale tomato down in front of him and he’d turn his nose up at it.
Holy shit Paul.
Seriously, just moments ago I caught Stevie Nicks lapping at the remains of my salad, made from perfectly windowsill-ripened home-grown tomatoes, raw onion, raw garlic, parsley and basil.
I briefly considered taking her to the kitty psychiatrist, but now I will rest more easily.
FDB,
I think they think that its meat because its red.
Dear FDB, please don’t let Stevie near tomatoes and onions. Toxic. Probably it’s the salt they like. Like vegemite – they tend to really like that.
http://www.aspca.org/Pet-care/poison-control/Plants/tomato-plant.aspx
That’s a good resource.
Hi Terangeree,
I was just mucking around, not serious. Well maybe not about wanting to put a brick to your head on a hot day on Parra Road but as for your point, yes it is rather Sydney centric isn’t it? Although I must say one of the things I found disturbing about the Yasi reportage was this expectation and well, almost, a need to have the storm cause mass death and destruction and when it didn’t do that on a huge scale, I think you got elements of the media being a bit nasty about it. There was such a buildup to Yasi, whole mornings and afternoons dedicated to the preparations, and you almost felt a voyeuristic need from the media for a crescendo of death and destruction to follow. It was a brilliant thing that many lives were saved but you didn’t get that angle from the media. The sheer luck that the hurricane didn’t what it should have done. Instead you got a bunch of people who felt robbed of their disaster movie ending, I felt. I thought it was most disturbing.
Oh moderated. FDB don’t let Stevie eat tomatoes (or onions). Toxic to them!
terangeree @89.
I think you’re on to something. The media is Sydney-centric. I’m sure that’s what led to Overton’s “Much Ado” outburst in the OO media diary. Floods, cyclones in Queensland, Anna Bligh hogging all the TV grabs, let’s move on. There’s a bit of trouble in Egypt, too, but what about real human interest like Thorpey’s comeback?
I often thought that the AFL, dazzled by the huge dollars being offered for the TV rights, missed a golden opportunity when negotiating with the networks. They should have insisted that the successful bidder, probably still the Seven network, set up its headquarters and national news network in Melbourne.
It wouldn’t have led to great changes – after all Kerry Stokes is pretty well as reactionary as Murdoch – but it might have just changed consensus slightly and led to occasional different perspectives.
Latham: Childless peeps can’t love properly.
What can i say?
http://ht.ly/3QYCj
Paul, I think using the magnifying glass to burn things was one of those childhood rituals that was almost universal. People were much more sanguine about the various combinations of children + incendiary devices back then. And lets face it, their trust was mostly well placed, we may have burned papers (and the odd ant), but we didn’t burn the house down, we may have hastened the aging process for timber fences with a few well placed crackers, but we didn’t intentionally hurt people or animals with them. We did have a few large grass fires in my street when I was growing up but without exception they were caused by adults burning rubbish on hot summer days. Every year without fail, an arsonist would set Castle Hill alight. We lived near the base of it so it became a yearly ritual, rather like watching the fireworks, or cracker night, to sit outside and watch the hill burn.
Could Stevie Nicks have been after the oil? Cats love fats. My cat goes crazy as soon as he smells nori, I have to beat him back as he loses all semblence of restraint. An unattended (open) packet of nori has a half life of about 30 seconds in my house. He’s also learned how to deal with a carton of eggs – flip up the lid with your claw then scrabble around until you can get one to roll off the table – Noms up.
su,
Agreed. The kid next door burnt down the cracker night bonfire in the park at the bottom of the dead-end street I grew up the day before cracker night. He was famous for life. It was, and probably still, is, the safest place in the world.
Latham. Ah, well. He’s a good example of what can happen to you when you get consumed by bitterness, envy, resentment, jealousy and hatred just because you don’t get what you want and you think the forces of society are arraigned against you. A cautionary tale for us all,don’t you think?
And as for this rubbish about people who don’t want children not being able to love – well, I don’t know how many examples you could pluck out of the air to prove him wrong if you sat down and thought about it for five minutes. A considerable number I would think.
Last observations from me on YASI:
power is now back on (three days not bad going, Larry was ten days)so water starts to flow and cleanup can start in earnest.
Observed that cyclone had a green-blasting effect (like sand blasting but with pulverised vegetation and general gunk) on the Northern side of our place.
Big trees down in yard but have to wait until drier before tackling with chainsaw as too slippery underfoot right now.
Fortunately North and Far north Queensland still have government (ie public) owned power retailer/distributor (Ergon) so direct chain of responsibility and accountability from consumer to distributor to Premier; it helps.
Yeah, ‘cos good old Latho is obviously such a kind and loving person. PB @ 106. You’re right. I think he’s an object lesson in how not to live your life.
Australia has always had extreme variability but what we are experiencing is outside that normal range. I think that may be obvious to nearly everyone despite the abc and mass media continuing their mantra nothing is different. Nothing need change. As Hansen and other scientists have already admitted the IPPC etc. have underestimated climate sensitivity of climate to co2. Australia ,it seems, could be more like the Arctic and Antarctic more sensitive to small global temperature changes than previously thought. Its early to be sure but its quite possible.
Abbott meets angry voters.
So last night,unable to sleep cos of the heat I heard Abbott meeting angry Queenslanders and this is what I heard:
‘I blame you, Abbott, for this weather!’
‘Don’t be ridiculous! How can it be my fault?’
‘You were a member of the government from 1996- 2004 that did nothing about climate change and denied it was happening.’
‘So that makes this all my fault?’
‘Yes , you were in the government were’nt you? You had a moral responsibility, that you ignored. You lied to us. What do you say to the people of West Australia, Queensland, Victoria? What you going to say to the bereaved Abbott? Your hands are clean are they?
‘Our position was on the best advice at the time.’
“No it was’nt, your actions were ideological, dishonest and selfish. You pretended the science did’nt exist did ‘nt you? So will you tell the truth now?’
‘What I said was with the best intentions. I’m sorry I got it so wrong…”
I can hear Abbott going through variations of this dialogue the rest of his life. He will be washing his hands compulsively. Its only a matter of time until he is dismissed with ignominy that will remain with him forever.
Tip for labour and greens, and Chaser. Wherever Abbott goes people should twitter and facebook awkward questions for him to people who might be in the vicinity, so he no longer can he pretend on TV thay he is the solution rather than the problem.
As I said elsewhere…
The spectacle of Mark Fucking Latham (yes, that is his middle name) casting aspersions on others’ capacity for emotional health and fulfillment is possibly the funniest thing I’ve seen this year.
The man is an emotional basket case, and to qualify as a mere narcissist he’d need to pull his head out of his arse long enough to look in the mirror.
Wontok@108
Ergon have stoping overnight in Mackay on their way up for the last 3 days.
Lots of em.
Even today, i saw some heading north.
Re Bill Muehlenberg; ‘the gay mafia & freedom of speech’ I have been waiting for my comments on his blog to be released from moderation despite anti-gay comments being published since my post:
I am a lesbian and a same sex marriage advocate. All public debate should be civil and use non-violent language. I understand that you have strongly held views that people like me are perverted deviants who are condemned to an eternity writhing in agony in hell fire. Good for you, nothing nasty, intimidating and and violent there…
Unfortunately for Christians, our laws are secular & we both have to argue our positions in the democratic ‘market place’.
I suspect you would much rather we had theocratic government, so good luck in convincing the voters to switch systems. In the meantime both you and I will continue to work hard to make our secular laws reflect our own beliefs and morality. May the best argument win.
I suspect, however that you are on the losing side. Look at the demographics; within one generation such views as you espouse will be history, alongside witch-burning, banning contraception and the stigmatising of unmarried mothers and their ‘bastard’ children.
Bit of a pity no one has picked up on Mark’s link @57 to the list of 21 silliest romance novels. I’ve heard that the worlwide romance novel industry is larger than the worldwide pornography industry. Can anyone confirm this? And, if so, is this a case of you go grrrl?
CJ Morgan @83 – very interesting perspective on the OLO issue. I was once a regular commenter at OLO for about a year (always liked your posts BTW) but bowed out because of the complete lack of any decent moderation. As I hung out a lot on the gender threads, I encountered many a commenter that spewed all sorts of out-of-control misogyny, some of which (IMO) constituted dangerous hate speech, but they never received so much as a warning.
If, as you suggest, OLO is now doing a spot of moderation (for whatever reason), then I’m glad. As far as I’m concerned, censorship purity is the cultural equivalent of free market ideology.
Namba wan news Wantok, we yupela stap?
I have to say Craighy, I am very impressed with professionalism and level of support of authorities and services et al and we are in a low impact zone.
The first time though we got automated notices from SES, Local Government and, not sure, police I think. Within hours of the discovery of that poor bloke suffocating in a small room with his geni running, we received about two SMS warning us of the danger of doing so. I really see the benefit of this and the potential of text or twitter type communication in an emergency situation. However, the question is who really sent those messages, how did they got our numbers and who else has got access to them?
Also, according to Langbroeck, our state govmint is the only one which is not reinsured. Anyone know more details about that and if it is such where does that leave us with all that infrastructure damage?
At a guess, Ootz, I’d say that no one has got any individual’s mobile phone number. It’s probably most likely that the police / SES [insert whichever other emergency authority is applicable] issued the same advice to all of the telephone companies, and they sent the SMS en masse to all of the handsets in the region/s affected.
It’s good to hear that everyone here that is in the affected cyclone/flood zones have weathered the storms O.K.
Ootz at 114 ; Emi gutpela tru na bigpela win igo long pinis.
Queensland doesn’t buy catastrophe reinsurance from capital markets because the reinsurers are in the business of making money and the pricing of risk in the tropics makes the cost to the community prohibitive for Qld: perhaps if the federal guvmin bought catastrophe reinsurance this would help spread the risk profile across the whole community.
iorarua @ 113,
re romance novels. Yes, that is true. I actually knew two writers who specialised in romance novels, both women. One of them was my Latin teacher at uni. And they did very well out of it thank you. As I understand it, never having tried it, Mills & Boon send you a kind of formulaic guide which you are more or less expected to stick to. There are several grades of novels from steamy to innocent, shall we say. I understand the craft (and it is a craft, and a very specialised one)has quite a number of male writers as well, who use female nom-de-plumes. Apparently, if you crack the market, you can get very rich out of it.
Yeh ootz
Too expensive to insure QLD against cyclones or floods apparently .
I think infrastructure repair is split %25 state, %75 federal, for southern floods.
Federal share from the levy
Cyclone damage?, i haven’t a clue.
I heard Xenophon talking about the QLD govt insurance issue on ABC local radio last week. I found this:
http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/597-queensland-goes-it-alone-in-shunning-insurance
there’s a link to an article in the Australian that estimates the insurance cost would be between 50-100 million per year for Queensland, it doesn’t say how they came to that figure though.
A nice update from Inside Story on the “The Digger and the dirt” by Frank Bongiorno.
http://inside.org.au/the-digger-and-the-dirt/
Just a final word on the “Secondary Boycotts” stoush. A quick recap, the idea was that action taken by gay activists resulting in some sponsors withdrawing advertising on OLO amounting to a secondary boycott according to Christoper Pearson. This idea was taken up by Skeptic Lawyer on their blog. I completely disagreed with this on a number of grounds and asked SL for her arguments.
Well, these haven’t been forthcoming and the thread has been shutdown due to “work pressures”. So much for free speech. The rightwing, perfect one day, rather more reticent to assert perfection the next.
‘As far as I’m concerned, censorship purity is the cultural equivalent of free market ideology.’
*nods*
*claps*
Paul Burns, my old cat loved rockmelon. Beat that.
If childless people can’t love, does that mean no child truly loves their parents? Awesome!
Ask a foster parent about parents who don’t love their kids.
I did and wished i didn’t.
And having met some of the kids, they can love just fine.
I just want to add that the second paragraph in that piece by skepticlawyer is a masterpiece of self-congratulatory, arrogant twaddle. Not to mention the delicious randism of collecting a scholarship from the Scottish taxpayer (object of strident British right-wing hate) while braying your libertarian principles from the rooftop.
And Pearson is obviously still the odious little shit he’s always been.
Bushfires in WA now.
Flood, Fire… how long until Famine?
@125
The first par is interesting in that it tries to frame the guillotining within the discourse of Pearson’s peccadilloes. It’s as though the whole secondary boycott discussion didn’t even exist.
I think there’s a bit of the bait and switch going on which might be okay except that the whole point of the blog is to “is to get discussions about the law out there to non-lawyers” as Legal Eagle says. Indeed SL warns that “I am not in a position to provide legal advice” so they certainly think that the blog is legally focused otherwise why would they provide that caveat?
Come to think of it it’s probably a bonus that they “no longer hold a current Australian practicing certificate” as if they did clients might find themselves involved in expensive frolics.
I just think it’s sad of that libertarian mediocrity is important to Australian political readers, or that such lacklustre political ideology would be held in high esteem by the Scottish bar. I certainly don’t visit that blog for political opinion any more than I’d seek out SL’s opinion on Croatian fascist politics. And it’s interesting that every time SL posts a legal opinion here someone pops up within minutes to point out basic factual errors (e.g. the TPA having been abolished).
Still, I have heard rumours that legal academia isn’t exactly held to the same high standards as, say, climate science. Of which I think at least one member of that blog is a little distrustful? Says it all really.
@115:
I should disclose that I’m banned forever from On Line Opinion, precisely because I and others challenged Young on the very issues that have now manifested in the withdrawal of advertising.
That, and the fact that I lampooned him on a private blog after he’d banned a few of us for arguing against the very wankers who prompted the complaint.
This issue has never been about OLO publishing Muehlenberg. It was all about Young allowing the most egregiously hateful comments in his Forum about gays to stand while silencing anybody who argued against them.
This was brought to his attention prior to any lobbying of advertisers. He chose to allow some really hateful bile to stand, while coming down heavily on those who argued against it.
Young is apparently the sole moderator of his Forum, so any consequences of his intransigence with respect to allowing vilification on his site must rest with him.
From my perspective, this is appears to be a deliberately confected beat-up. Mind you, OLO appears to be in a bit of strife right now, but I wouldn’t have thought this kind of easily refuted mendaciousness would be doing much for its image.
Erk, I meant @ 114 of course.
And thanks very much, iorarua – while I’m back!
The pogrom has begun. The huddled, quivering innocents are huddling in the cellar of Marohasy’s blog, http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2011/02/attacking-freedom-of-speech-2/
I think the IPA and the CIS are offering asylum.
This secondary boycott stuff is cool. Am I right in thinking that under SL et al’s interpretation, the UK was wrong to prevent shipments of slaves to the US?
@132,
Probably. Look I haven’t bothered to really look at the Act and try and establish how a secondary boycott action would succeed on these facts. Reason being, from what I have seen of successful actions it’s looks like you need fairly clear cut facts (as in the CFMEU case) and the other side is always going to argue that it not being coerced by the activists, it’s just taking its money elsewhere. And trying to go straight to the advertisers would make it a primary boycott, if it is indeed a boycott and not just a commercial decision. As I said the facts are clear cut enough to sustain an action.
Just had a look at the comments thread on the Muehlenberg post:
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11268&page=0
It contains about every vile homophobic smear in the book.
I can well understand why ANZ and IBM want to disassociate themselves from this sort of thing.
@Patrickb, I suspect that the secondary boycott idea originated with Christopher Pearson, and that might be why SL doesn’t actually argue the case.
I can’t say I find either it, or the alleged danger to free speech, persuasive.
If you go back and read Pearson’s column, this quote from Graham Young suggests that C J Morgan might be right that the objection goes to the comments thread not to the article:
Finally some questioning of Graham Young’s claims on the OLO “censorship” matter.
Young has repeatedly asserted that the objections of the “gay activists” were to his publication of Muehlenberg’s article. In fact, as CJ Morgan has pointed out, the objections were to the moderation of comments on the article. This response to Young’s December blog post on the issue makes the distinction quite plainly. Far from being an attempt to silence disagreement, this story is about protection from vilification.
While all “The Domain” blogs (LP, Club Troppo, Jennifer Marohasy, Skepticlawyer, En Passant) moderate their comments, only at OLO does there appear to be a backlog of unheeded recommendations for deletion. Those members of “The Domain” weeping for their lost shekels should have done some due diligence and ensured that OLO moderation practices matched their own.
Indeed! Time was, ravers would stand on a soap-box in Hyde Park and rave away to their hearts’ content. No companies would put their banners up behind them. But there was no “secondary boycott” of their speech, it’s just that nobody would pay to have their name associated with it.
Free speech truly is free — as in, of no commercial value!
Dennis Shanahan’s Newspoll divinations are out again. Today he concludes that ‘it is clear the Leader of the Opposition and the Coalition are winning the wider political battle’ apparently because ‘Abbott’s personal standing remains relatively poor but he’s continuing to appeal strongly to the Coalition base and is making ground relative to Gillard.’
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/getting-burned-in-political-summer/story-fn59niix-1226001103374
The actual full poll results, seemingly buried in a pdf file attached to another story, don’t really trumpet the marvellousness of Tony…
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2011/02/06/1226001/085903-aus-news-newspoll-070211.pdf%20070211
Kim @ 135. Yes, I though it was odd that SL didn’t actually put forward an argument. That this is a secondary boycott is obviously a ridiculous idea. I suspect the real agenda is to whip up a bit of gay hatred. After all, it’s those nasty gay activists who are strangling freedom of speech and those nice Christians who are being penalised.
But, how weird is it that libertarians don’t support capital spending its money how it wishes?
However, I don’t blame for SL for ending the thread as it was getting all a bit weird with discussions about the sex life of various people.
Just wondering if
Leb-boyMetrosexual discrimination will earn a boycott as well?http://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/turned-away-for-being-too-dressed-up/story-e6frg3pl-1226000693974
@135,
Indeed it was Pearson who brought it up. But if you read SL’s commentary you’ll find that they also think that the action of the activists strays into secondary boycott territory (or words to that effect). There is also a lengthy exposition of what a secondary boycott entails (in SL’s opinion) in the same post. There isn’t any further argument to support SL’s initial enthusiasm for a secondary boycott action however despite problems being raised and questions being asked.
I note that Club Troppo also sees secondary boycott as a possibility however that appears to be more about the actions of the advertisers vis a vis Troppo el at so I don’t think there’s a free speech issue there but it still wouldn’t work as a secondary boycott in my opinion.
Gillard has two and a half years to the next election. Her performance has been woeful, but if she tells some of her advisers to go to hell when they come up with their repulsive neocon ideas the way a Labor PM should, she’ll probably be okay. (Though I’d prefer Shorten any day. He can’t be more conservative than Gillen and he’d wipe the floor with Abbott. I reckon what people what is some real brand differintiation between the major parties, but hell this is the ALP ost 1975. They’ve never completely got their mojo back since then. Which is probably why we got the Democrats and then the Greens going from strength to strength.
One thing really does worry me re Gillard’s future. When your supporters start saying publicly they support you ‘Absolutely’ I hear knives sharpening in the party room.
If you don’t believe me, just check out the current political moves of Andrew Robb on the Libs absolutely supported Mr. Abbott. The Oz ran what for all the world looked like a sounding out piece on Robb’s political prospects (on the weekend I think,) so I reckon Abbott’s doomed.
But, as much as she annoys me, I don’t think Gillard is. Not yet anyway.
Eyesight problems @ 142.
‘post 1975′ and ‘what people want.’ Sorry.
It’s amusing when a libertarian argues against the rights of a company to do what it wishes with its advertising revenue.
It’s especially amusing when said libertarian is quite happy to take advantage of taxpayer funded largesse while presumably arguing for all she’s worth that taxation is theft.
Re Newspoll – Apparently Labor’s primary vote is down to 32%, which makes any other numbers in the poll decidedly irrelevant.
Gillard won’t tell her media advisers to go to hell and besides, all the evidence suggests that she agrees with them. When did anyone get the idea that she was such a great politician anyway? Probably came from all those articles in The Australian praising her political skills when Rudd was PM.
Number one piece of advise to Gillard advisers- stop reading The Australian!
Make that advice!!!
I’m not exactly what you’d call your uptotheminute go-to guy for contemporary music, but OTOH I came by my ear the hard way, and I’ll say this li’l bit o’ news — the (relatively) new record by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, with the unfortunately corny title “MOJO,” is a masterpiece.
I mean it in the old-fashioned way: these men have mastered their craft, in the sense that they’ve moved on up from journeymen to masters. It’s not a record with a wild original prophetic-style voicing or anything, like say Horses or Remain in Light. It’s just a bunch of wise ole fuckas at the peak of their game, doing what they’ve spent their lives trying to attain.
And believe you me, that’s not nuthin’.
Now if only they could get Tom Verlaine to sit in, they might actually levitate London or sumfin…
JPZ@ 146:
They’ve got their Mojo Workin’, have they?
btw, in football news (real football that is), Packers defeat Steelers!
In related news, Freud dies a second time, from Freudian-joke-overload complications…
I watched that game Japerz.
It was a good one. Packers were steadier, though more one-dimensional. Steelers were multi-pronged but were accident-prone.
The interesting thing is how little gridiron has evolved since the late 1970s. Whereas AFL (real football, where players actually kick the ball, you know, with their feet) has undergone two or three major evolutions in the same time.
AFL isn’t football, it’s footy.
Football is the game where only two players on the field are permitted to use their hands.
Interesting point Katz. I quite like Gridiron – certainly prefer it to rugby league – but like AFL soccer too has changed pretty radically through the professional era, while to my admittedly untrained eye Gridiron not so much.
Compare it with basketball for example, in the same country over the same period.
For those interested in the advertising kerfuffle. Here’s my take:
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2011/02/07/on-line-opinion-and-the-advertising-and-free-speech-controversy/
Hovering with intent on the seedy side of the Big Juke Joint in The Sky, angels-at-risk toy with diconsolate trade who, in the fullness of time, have had a gutful of the ethereal. Their essential goodness is bursting with bad intent. Da Joint is crankin’ out the best blues/rock the other sides of the Crossroads and the musical maternity wards of Helena, Arkansas. Arranger Gabriel got da bands’ chops down real mean, yessah!
The initials “G.M.” are caved on the back of an empty barstool.
See ya, Gary. Thanks for your efforts towards word peace, and for all your wonderful music.
Drug giant “Merck” dragged stocks lower last week and I believe that this will continue to plummet over the next 12 months. Corporate greed and dominance is the name of the game at Merck. This company was so desperate for control that it paid $8bn for “Millipore” just so it could corner the market. I believe that not all big companies are bad, though I do think that Merck is ruthless in their quest for control and monopolizing. It’s “money and control” before “people” at Merck. I don’t think that their supply of gold will last forever as the cracks deepen and the truth surfaces.
@ 152:
word peace?
Terangeree — I’m liking Muddy’s band in that clip. Muddy impresses as always, but then again you pretty much know what he’s gonna do. But that band has some tricks up its sleeve.
I like him cutting up on stage — in those days people weren’t scared of being who they were, didn’t worry so much about image.
If you get a chance some time, check out the awesome documentary film Wattstax, about the benefit concert Stax Records threw after the Watts riots to restore public feeling. There’s a fantastic cameo by old Rufus Thomas playing his novelty hit “Do Tha Funky Chicken” and cutting up onstage — the crowd gets excited and starts to charge the stage.
What happens next is genius. Rufus, sensing the crowd surge is dangerous, gets eight to ten thousand excited fans to stop and go back to their seats — by asking them politely. “Don’t jump the fence, it don’t make no sense!”
Must be seen to be believed. Rufus Thomas for President!
(well, too late, I guess.)
Katz@149 “The interesting thing is how little gridiron has evolved since the late 1970s.”
Perhaps because they don’t play enough in a match? There’s about 12 min of actual play in an American Football game, isn’t there?
And yay for the Packers, the only not-for-profit, community owned team in the NFL!
d
Katz/FDB — well since gridiron has such a strong, intricate running game I think that more than enuf accounts for the “foot” in football. AFL and rugby I don’t claim to understand (although they look cool), it’s soccer that I’m committed to disparaging.
As to its not evolving… the game is in a state of formal perfection, the only thing that needs evolving is the bad manners and uncouth style of a lot of the players. But then, welcome to the world of sport, eh?
Glad you enjoyed the game, tho’ I didn’t watch it myself; I’ve been unable to stomache the Super Bowl for years becuz of its megalomaniac pomposity. Most American pro sports are now televised in a visual style that would make Leni Riefenstahl blush. It’s visually unbearable. College ball is about the most I can stand. It’s a pity, because I love the sport, but… Yeesh.
High-school football in rural Texas — now THAT’s still something worth seeing.
Terangeree, here’s a hard-driving example of Gary Moore on world peace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X_7QFlbsW0
Never too late for the music, j_p_z. The history begins at ~4:40. The moment he walks onstage, Rufus Thomas claim his patch. He’s a master of crowd empathy and control. Richard Pryor ends the clip in his pre-PC period.
Well worth the tube prospectin’!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbXu_X_I7c
I agree. The game is as formal as chess. It is a rule-bound, closed system. Offense and defense are so finely balanced. The size of the squads with special teams and all means that you don’t have to compromise one set of capabilities in pursuit of another. The game does have a formal beauty and a set of systems elaborated to close to their ultimate limits.
Oh, and Japerz, while we are on the subject of (American) football, I recall watching a college game in the late 1970s when an aging doyen of college football from a leading southern team (Alabama? Mississippi?) ran on to the field and tackled a ball carrier from the opposing team.
I’m sure it happened, but I have never heard it referred to since. Who was that coach who finally snapped?
jasperz, I played some grid iron once…, well half a season and a handful of games. In Melbourne actually. There was an amateur league. I wasn’t bad either for a little bloke.
“well since gridiron has such a strong, intricate running game I think that more than enuf accounts for the “foot” in football”
Although that might be enuf in your eyes I don’t think it is really.
American footy has a really interesting running game, I don’t think its that unlike AFL in some ways, tho there are many obvious differences. While its a bit to much like a game for coaches not players one thing that never fails to impress me tho is the absolute athletic talent on display. I dunno if you remember a guy called Renaldo Nehemiah, but I used to be a hurdler too, and I’ll never forget watching him hurdle a saftey or someone trying to cover him, as they dived forward to tackle him.
As far as hate speech goes … well, there’s a difference between hate speech by the people with the power and hate speech by the people who are hammered by the people with power. And if you think everyone has power then its pretty clear where you stand and you obviously won’t give that any credence.
Now if someone threatened you with a knife then you have realised what it feels like to be threatened by power.
In countries like Australia and America, power, and authority and the state itself and to a certain extent the culture are implicitly racist, ie bigoted against particular groups, esp non WASPs. So for heaps of people living in those countries of minority background, hate speech by white people is backed by the violence of the state every time.
I’m not gonna go into my personal experience with this cos it tends to get ugly if I do that here. But you being hassled and physically threatened or even hurt by people of “lets say a different race” once is … well its not good, the first time it happened to me it was pretty traumatic. I’m sorry to hear it happened to you.
By the time I was 16 I was used to it.
How many times you been beaten by cops in country towns for nothing, except knowing and stating your rights, and the colour of your skin? Less than me I’ll bet.
But I’d rather keep it friendly and talk about footy than how embedded racism is in our respective cultures, especially if you can’t even see it. I was going for the Packers actually.
Gridiron rocks! Great game. Played it only a couple times, enjoyed watching a bit when I lived in the States. And I’m not a “sports” person.
Meanwhile, as the ontological discussion on ‘free speech’ has been relegated to the Salon
I find it pretty funny that the guy who was all ass-kickin’ a couple weeks back about how the LP hive mind are so “a priori” in their views, now wants to make an ontological argument that hate speech is impossible!
Well, I see your getting mugged in the park by a gang of knife-wielding thugs and raise you one Jewish ancestry. Hate speech is ontologically impossible? Really?
Aaaanyway, in the specific case under discussion on the other thread, there were no ‘extralegal’ organs of the state involved in doing anything, Japerz. Just some companies choosing to take their money elsewhere, just like Glenn Beck has lost all his sponsors except for Goldline and Fox network promos.
So you can rest easy, Japerz, Australia is safe from the incipient tyranny that would pertain if the state, or extralegal organs of the state, decided to tell loudmouth idiots to shut up, and ignored them. It’s happening, as you might say, ‘naturally and organically’, ‘cos a firm majority of Aussies support marriage equality, and have come to that view sans lobbyists, activists or campaigns. It’s just the new normal…
Cheers
Hey mercurious where did you play gridiron?
In Australia or overseas?
From Farrah Tomazin in today’s Age:
I hope the commenters on the Muehlenberg article which was the subject of the “Online Opinion & Advertising” thread can sleep at night knowing their poisonous wafflings contribute to the climate in which these things happen. (If you think there’s no connection, well, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.)
“I find it pretty funny that the guy who was all ass-kickin’ a couple weeks back about how the LP hive mind are so “a priori” in their views, now wants to make an ontological argument that hate speech is impossible!”
You don’t spend any of your free time actually thinking, Merc, do you. Of course not, becuz if you did, you would no longer be a leftist. But I guess it’s all about how you ‘feel’, at any given moment. I know some people who work in art galleries, mebbe they’d find your conversation a lot more interesting than I do…
Meantime, on to more enjoyable Merc-free aspects of life…
Jonathan Richman only wrote 2 and a half great songs in his life (Roadrunner* and Pablo Picasso, and for the half, Government Center), but on the other hand, that’s two and a half more great songs than I ever wrote.
Here’s The Modern Lovers, doing their bit for a T stop in Boston…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BuZZ9sn-yI&feature=related
* — if you can “steal” a bit by ripping off both Van’s “Gloria” and Lou’s “Sister Ray”, then I say why not try it the fuck out…
I’m in love with modern rock and roll!
I’m in love with modern moonlight!
I got my car in Massachusetts,
With the radio on!
Helen @ 164,
Oh, they won’t. They think they’re guided by God or something. Of course, I knew about gay bashings. Years ago I had a mate who was bashed. And there’s been an ongoing campaign against it. I also sort of knew it didn’t go down well in schools. But I didn’t know about that stuff in the home. Its shocking.
Check the ugly, naked face of class hatred in this preposterous rubbish from the VIC Libs: http://www.theage.com.au/national/education/schools-could-search-parents-cars-20110208-1almk.html
And of course @169 the ugliest incidents have come from the little darlings at non-government schools like Xavier. Can’t see that lot happy about allowing a search of the beemer by the rector.
Thats right Joe2- the only ACTUAL incidents involving school students come from the brats at Xavier College.
I say we search their bags.
Yes, but of course it won’t be the Beemers that are being searched, will it.
As someone who lives near one of these schools (and sometimes has the misfortune of having to share inner city roads with these mini-trucks), it certainly won’t be Audis, Land Rovers, Lexus, Mercs or (for the less well off) Landcruisers that are searched, either.
A triumph for Bruce Rowe against members of the Queensland Police who assaulted him 3 years ago. Reported by ABC 7.30 report.
Yes – the QLD police force wants to realise we live in state governed by the rule of law.
As soon as police – or politicians for that matter – imagine they are above the law, we enter a situation known as “authoritarianism”. its very common around the world.
If you don’t like that, you can resign. Or be sacked. Your choice.
On a sporting note
Abbos V whitey”s(not really) NRL on saturday night.
Look out for Ben Barba to have a big game for the indigenous.And the old man Darren Lockyer for the non.
And big Georgie Rose.
I predict a 4 point win for the non-indigenous side.
PS.(Yes, its a separatist concept,but i don’t care.)
This is pretty disturbing piece titled “Phone hacking victim tells her story” from P.M. Something you are not likely to read about at Newscorp. Glenn Dyer has more at Crikey.
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3134484.htm
Just for the heck of it, aw c’mon, who can stop themselves from loving the saintly Phoebe Snow?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZFtr_EKSDo
Like they say in the movies, You go, girl.
God love you, Phoebe.
SG and other Japan residents, just came across this:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20110205a1.html
Joe2@177: The word “Kafakaesque” at the end of the article was pretty spot on. Poor woman.
Indeed, Helen. The thing went on for six years with no acknowledgment from the police or anyone. It would send anyone crazy. Elle McPherson looks none to pretty in this, as well.
Scotland Yard are looking more and more dodgy in this whole affair.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/feb/09/phone-hacking-newsoftheworld?intcmp=239
But what I find most disturbing, as Glenn Dyer notes, is that hardly any of this is reaching our media circles. I was wondering if Crikey might have thought it appropriate to place his piece outside the paywall, in these circumstances, as he has written well on this matter.
I haven’t been following the hacker scandal involving the Pupertocracy over closely, (as joe2 points out its a bit hard to, since not much is reported) but I was under the impression Scotland Yard sort of dropped it like a hot cake once they realised the Murdoch Press was involved. They didn’t know who they might offend if they kept investigating.
Now, I know what I’m going to suggest is never going to happen, but I thougfht I’d put it on the interttubes here in the impossible hope that some po;iticians with courage picked it up. Isn’t it time political leaders subjected to this man Murdoch’s atrocious ryranny all round the world got together and placed limits on his influence in the interests of safeguarding democracy? Ooops! There goes any chance I have of getting my book published with a Murdoch owned company.
Just on the car-searching thing, here’s “an elite Sydney boys’ boarding school” that scorns actual physical weapons and goes for psychological terrorism instead.
I see that elite Sydney boys’ boarding schools do not even suspend their students for making death threats, so if the car-search thing spreads to NSW then obvs that’ll only be state schools too.
Guess these kids at elite schoo;s are learning how to run the world. Don’t want to give them any nanby pamby ideas, like – negotiate before you bomb.
Disappointingly the Guardian, supposedly a serious newspaper seems to see the phone hacking story as a celebrity story, so if you’re not a ‘public figure’ there’s no story.
Personally, paul of albury@185, I think the Guardian has done a terrific job chasing this story.
The unfortunate women who has been caught up in this saga, referred to in the P.M. report, would still be wondering what the hell happened if they and others had not kept pressing the case.
The new forced police investigation is a direct result of their urgings and I fail to see how the Guardian could about reporting if they were not to mention the high profile individuals involved. Celebrities (horrible notion) are just part of the story of Murdoch sponsored privacy invasion.
Re PC’s phone terrorism story, it is clearly the responsibility of prosecuting authorities whether or not to pursue an action against those thugs. (Personally, I’d like to have the bejeezus scared out of them by dragging them through the whole horrific trial process.)
For whatever reasons, it seems, the NSW prosecuting authorities have decided not to go down that path. Is this a bourgeois conspiracy of inaction? Perhaps.
However, I’m not sure that the school these thugs attended should be expected to punish or even expel them. What they do on their own time doesn’t concern the school. However, a period of custody in some juvenile gaol may induce the parents to calculate the economy of continuing to pay the thugs’ school fees. And a criminal record may be reason enough to reject the thugs as students.
Katz,
For years now, mixing as I do with both sides of the track, I’ve heard stories (I say heard stories because this stuff is purely anecdotal and not evidence based)of how the, shall we say, the vivid townee poor end up in the cells, but sprogs of some-one important slumming it with the lumpenproletariat are left uncharged. Mind you having been a bit of a hermit for five or six years, am not sure how up to date they are now.
And there’s probably no truth in them. I mean, one justice for the rich and another for the poor. My black friends tell me there’s no such thing. Everybody is treated equal.
Katz, are you sure? Doesn’t somebody has to complain to them first, press charges like, otherwise they can’t do anything? I got the impression the girl’s father (who sounds quite something) was trying to frighten the bejesus out of the little shits without actually going to the police, and seems to have succeeded. (They would have deserved to get put through the whole process as you say, but the father might have been concerned not to put his own kid through it.)
I also got the impression, given that they mentioned her father on the phone, that they might have crossed swords with him before.
But the school should have suspended them. Actually, the school should have expelled them. Doing neither is tantamount to saying this kind of behaviour is okay, and is an active contribution to a subculture of privilege that not only condones but enables it.
PC, I was under the impression that the father had gone to the police. Rereading the article I see that presumption was unwarranted.
That being the case, how did this story become public knowledge? Did the father ask/tell his daughter to make it public? Did the father make it public? The source(s) are quite unclear.
Was a spokesperson for the school interviewed? If not, how do we know what the school did to/with the little thugs? Reading between the lines it appears that the Girl Guides spokesperson was the source. If so, that is sloppy reporting.
In terms of expelling the little thugs, that would require them to be enrolled in another school. Private schools are often correctly criticised for divesting themselves of problem students. These misfits have to go somewhere by law if they are under 16 years old. The default setting would be the local high school. The local high school often already has more problems than it can handle, without adding to them.
Joe2 I looked for articles about the phone hacking on the guardian web site both yesterday when you first posted and again today and could find no links to stories about anyone who wasn’t a celeb. And Ms Field does not appear on their ‘Full list of victims’.
On searching the site I see she was mentioned in one story and video in July 2009.
Their pursuit of the story is important. I hope they would have pursued it even if celebs were not involved.
Katz, I saw a tv news item and it seemed to be in the context of the Girl Guides doing research into bullying.
HELP!
The sound has gone off my TV and consequently there is no sound on my DVD player either. (I’ve checked.) Can I do anything to fix it or should I just forget about it and buy another TV next week. (Fortunately I’ve just paid off my Centrelink loan and as far as I know can immediately get another one.)
Does your TV have a mute button?
If that isn’t the problem, and given that it isn’t the result of some signal anomaly, you might have to buy a replacement TV.
Katz,
I do think I will have to get a replacement TV, cause it wasn’t the mute button. I reprogrammed it too, but that didn’t do anything, so I knew I had to look at novel measures. But I’ve had a bit of luck. I rang up a mate to forewarn him I’d need a lift sometime next week once my Centrelink loan was paid in to the bank to go up town, buy a TV, bring it home,and help to connect up the DVD, set top box etc. But they have a large spare analog TV in working order at their place they’ve been dying to get rid of, etc, so he’s bringing it round sometime Monday. I’ll giver this old one to Vinnies, see if they can get it repaired and then give it away.
I think its been about three, maybe two years since I bought this Sanyo brand new fromBig W.. Spose all I can say is that this built in obselencence which is supposed to make you keep running back to retailers is captalism at its greediest and sickest.
Paul – Vinnies probably can’t take it because they don’t have the budget to safety test electrical items before the sell or give them away, which I think they have to do by law and they generally don’t accept electrical items for that reason. So unless you can find someone who likes to fiddle with TV’s for fun, or wants to turn it into a fishbowl or somesuch then unfortunately the only option is to send it to the tip.
Hm. Thanks Mindy. Guess I’ll just have to recycle it like I did my other one. We have a recycling plant or some such thing at the Armidale tip.
How many speakers in it Paul? If more than one, then it’s unlikely they’d both burn out simultaneously, and very likely a cheap fix. A connector between two circuit boards dislodged, or a dry solder joint.
If I weren’t so far away I’d warm up the iron and have a look-see myself.
FDB,
I think its probably two, from the way the DVD player sounds when its working. Anyway, your thought of helping is much appreciated.
Its been okay, been organising my research for the next chapter of my book, having done it all, and having finished ch. 6 yesterday, so I’m keeping busy. (+ being on LP.) Anyway it will be all okay come sometime Monday. One weekend without the box or DVDs since I mostly watch TV at night, is not going to kill me.
OMG! WHAT AN ABSOLUTE GOOSE I AM!
Believe me it deserves capitals. Though I did not have the mute button on my TV on, I had accidentally turned the sound right down. Well, at least I fixed it before my mate brought the other TV over.
Comes from having bad eyesight.
[Runs away and hides.]