Defence Minister Stephen Smith says there may need to be further inquiries into assault allegations involving the Australian Defence Force.
Three former members of the ADF have told ABC TV’s Four Corners program they were bashed or sexually assaulted while serving their country before being actively encouraged to keep it quiet.
The Government has already launched a series of inquiries into the ADF’s culture after allegations a female cadet was secretly filmed during sex with another cadet at the Defence Force Academy.
Mr Smith says many more cases have emerged since then and he expects there could be more still in the wake of the Four Corners report.
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Just had a conversation with some friends about this sort of phenomena in relation to some of the more “exotic”, for want of a better word, cultural practices that are part of an East African’s life, for example.
But we have interesting “cultural practices” of our own, If defence forces training is an example!
Bits of wood wedged lodged in unlikely crevasses, women gang raped hazed, then fined for “sexual misconduct”.
People beaten for resisting bastardisation; traumatised to this very day. The armed forces have be tough, but they need to be reasoning creatures in this day and age, not animals.
The situation seems to have quietened down in these establishments, but you get the feeling that what 4 Corners said of these antics as evidence of (flaws in) an underlying “Australian” pathology, is still requiringof a bit of thought and planning, for when it inevitably rears its ugly head again.
How does the system reproduce itself?
A good example, that 4 Corners episode !
Where to begin . . . The world is going to hell in a handbasket (anyway pretty much regardless of anything we do. We don’t ever seriously want to be at war with anyone, anytime and the best way to ensure that is to have no ADF at all. That it is a hostile, sociopathic and toxic environment to be embroiled in is frankly no surprise. But that we think we need it proves to me just how irrational at least half of all human beings can be.
I just watched Pilger’s The War You Don’t See and was particularly affected by a young US soldier’s efforts to save an Iraqi girl who had been badly injured in an attack from a US helicopter (firing from a mile or more away). He was doing what soldiers imagine they are trained to do, (aside from killing people) which is to protect civilian life, children civilian life. He got sod all support from anyone around him and was derided and mocked for his efforts. Civilian casualties in WWI were 10% in WWII 50%, Vietnam 70% and in Iraq 90%. (etcetra. . . . I suppose). The US’s/Nato (whatev’s) fully intend to ‘prosecute’ the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, till the end of time. The industrial military complex has become elemental to the machinations of the free market and its viability. Resource security they call it. Loot and plunder they used to call it. Australia gains sweet FA from any of it but like some compliant, obsequious moron idiot fucktard etc, goes along for the ride–for what?
War making is entirely and absolutely corrupt to the core as is every institution associated with it.
Link, the turkey shoot that opened his doco was bad enough, but how rotten were the media execs and bureacrats dissembling and lying about it toPilger, later?
Talking of docos, watched the the thing on SBS about the Freedom Rides in the Deep South, fifty years ago.
Anyone who thinks politicians don’t lie like machine guns firing bullets, needs to see such a doco, then watch our politicians and see if they can tell the difference ( to the ones in the deep south fifty years ago).
Well said Link.
OTOH we clearly have the talent in the ADF for sado-sexual humiliation. Perhaps the ADF could put in a tender the next time the Yanks want to run an institution like Abu Grahib? A specialist unit called the Hillbilly Division is called for.
Spot on Link & akn…the ADF are like Australian farmers…farmers have “the land” and the army has “the anzac spirit”..neither of them can do aything wrong, and if by some slim chance they get caught they usually have an automatic get out of goal free card. Let’s hope Smith stays on it, as he’ll be under real pressure not to.
There’s a certain … haste … in earlier comments to portray the entire Defence Force as sadistic sociopaths. I spent 26 years in the Army and never witnessed anything like this (including during my basic training, which is where you’d most expect it). Admittedly, I wasn’t officer material, and so was never at Duntroon or ADFA. The little I heard of the culture at Duntroon was pretty unpleasant, but nothing like the worst events in the 4 Corners doco. More like petty humiliations (which are still pretty pointless, if you want to train effective soldiers).
I think some of the people I served with would’ve been capable of the sort of assaults that occurred (in the right circumstances, with peer pressure), but most of them were decent people.
Public opposition to the ‘war’ in Afghanistan is huge. But the one iron-clad guarantee we have is that Abbott and Gillard, especially on hearing news of another Australian soldier’s death, are in furious agreement. We get from both the same line about Australia’s comittment to ‘staying the course in Afghanistan’. And we are supposed to believe this is because of ‘the terrorist threat’. How stupid do they think we are?
Sounds much more rationally likely, that they are both in cahoots or kowtowing to the US and the UK who are, after all, the majority shareholders in our resource sector and who ipso facto have us by the short and curlies.
Globalisation is like some amorphous mass of immorality that no-one can control. It’s founded on and supported by, complete bullshit. Frankly, I don’t think such a dodgy edifice can possibly be such a monster. It’s the monster in ourselves that’s the real problem, apparently, evidently, etc. . .
We could save zillions by not having an ADF, and make the lives of some of our more excitable, young, people made a bit more ‘normal’. One that doesn’t involve being professionallly trained in obscene murder for the sentimental memory of some fallen digger, say. And instead we could make our business rehabilitating the world’s traumatised and promoting the great idea of peace and slowly buy back the country.
Probably since Cromwell’s New Army, and certainly into the 18C, which I’m about to write about shortly, and from which I would suggest modern army training methods arise, military training has been very physically, mentally and emotionally demanding. It aim is to form a cohesive, obedient comradely force ready to do battle. The risk is, and always has been that this mental, emotional and physical toughness can on occasion degenerate into sadism. When it does, the whole purpose of the training is defeated. Historically I’m more aware of sadism among naval officers in the 18c but this occured quite infrequently and appears to have been dealt with very quickly, even in an era where the armed forces were arguably more desensitised to the effects of officer violence. In the rank and file these excesses sometimes were punished by court martials, and in the officer corps the honour code was/is relied upon.
Clearly from the latest examples, this isn’t working. It used to be if one broke solidarity, one was sent to Coventry. Now it is clear violent and unacceptable punishments are inflicted.
Needless to say, because of the code of silence, which I suggest has always existed in some form in the armed forces for certain offences/crimes, I don’t have much hope any of these enquiries, unless they end up in the civil courts, will be resolved effectively. But I hope I’m wrong.
DI (nr): fair enough comment and one of the reasons that people often hold back from stringent comment of the ADF and other services is so as to not offend decent present and past service people. It’s a hard call. My early mentors in the trade union movement were all WWII vets and the most decent group of people I’ve ever met so it is a hard call to criticise. Maybe, as you suggest, the problems are mainly with the officers?
To a large extent, it comes down to poor recruitment. These guys don’t become bullies at ADFA. They are bullies before they get there. Through no fault of my own I am acquainted with several of this sort who found their way to ADFA. I’m grimly satisfied that one of these chaps, who was a nasty bully, was in turn bullied so badly at ADFA that he suffered a breakdown. Admittedly, this happened some years ago but I doubt that things have changed all that much since.
At ADFA these chaps find a culture that encourages the perfection of their sociopathic practices.
Darwinian processes ensure the reproduction of this culture of bullying.
Several cohorts must go through ADFA before this culture can be cleansed, even with the best faith of the ADFA hierarchy.
akn, I don’t think you can assume that the problems are mostly with the officers. There’ve been some horrific stories coming out of the infantry battallions (particularly 3RAR), and the incidents would’ve been NCO-instigated. I just don’t believe it’s universal in the Defence Force, more confined to some units which have a particularly toxic culture.
Actually, it’d be interesting to get Razor’s perspective on this, as he was a commissioned officer.
it’d be interesting to get Razor’s perspective on this, as he was a commissioned officer.
Or so “he” says. “He” might actually be a Syrian lesbian.
Hi,
3 years in ARES an Officer Cadet and Officer, 10 years in the ARA as a Cadet at RMC Duntroon and as an Officer.
I was never bastardised. Never saw any. The only incident I ever heard about from a friend who was at ADFA was he being constantly sexuallly harrassed by a female cadet.
The vast majority of members of the ADF do not accept the type of behaviour that is either bastardisation or sexual harrasment or work place bullying. That said, there are over 50,000 members in the ADF and you are going to get some bad eggs.
Bastardisation is dead. Sexual harrassment did and does happen but there are very active programs to educate members about it and support mechanism in place.
Most civilians don’t understand that the ADFA is the degree path entry for Officer training and that RMC Duntroon is for non-degree entry and conducts the final 12 months of military Officer training of ADFA gradutes. I didn’t necessarily like many of the ADFA cadets who joined our class at Duntroon, but I do acknowledge that they were all very, very, bright and talented individuals. Less than 2% of applicants for Officer training make it through.
I have no doubt that females are capable of being in Arms Corps but I do not believe Australian Society is ready for it. When we have females able to take part in contact sports agains males, then we as a nation will be ready.
Is taking a shower (yes that is fully nude) under a bucket in the open with the whole Troop/Platoon able to see you really acceptable in mixed company or any other work place?
Well, since killing other people isn’t generally acceptable in any other workplaces, perhaps we can make an exception in this situation also.
@15 ha ha – I suppose you want the Police to not use force either?
I suppose you want the Police to not use force either?
What, you do want the police to use force?
Razor, your experience pretty much accords with mine, in quite different environments (RASVY / RACT).
So now we have two anecdata …
As a former defence force member (Navy) I can say that bastardisation and victimisation was a regular and frequent occurrence. Most of the time however it remained within ‘legal’ limits, i.e. confined to persistent victimisation of certain sailors by certain NCOs; always singling them out for special attention even if the attention is “by the book”. Not that there is anything wrong with this per se, it’s the consistent application of those rules inconsistently only to certain members. This sort of thing occasionally then spills over into proper bastardisation. And in my experience in that situation everyone looks the other way, me included. Unless you can pull actual rank on the bastardiser what else can you do? No-one likes a snitch. You just mark down the bastards in your head and refuse to drink with them and do your damnedest to never have to be assigned to any duty with them especially one not in plain sight of everyone else. In my experience there were always a couple of killicks and a PO or chief on any ship or training establishment guaranteed to be some sort of psychopath.
It was always worst on cruises. Foreign ports and hard liquor are a terrific combination.
In my day there were no women on ships or in training with anyone that I knew so I can’t comment on that aspect.
Sam, he claims to be an officer, so he is most likely a Syrian lesbian.
To complete the syllogism, if he is an officer, he must be a Syrian lesbian and vice versa.
Actually the Cadet stuff had me in mind of “cultural practices”, again, particularly in those leafy greens inhabited by the officer classes.
Some time ago, the young gentlemen of Trinity College were subject to approbation, for a similar affection toward the wedging of articles of timber in unexplained places. A few years on, we find the trait has migrated to officer school.
Decades ago in ARES, I once got called “officer material”, after an NCO read my score results on the firing range. No one present felt I should be tempted to take it as a compliment.
We are all Syrian Lesbians, today.
To quote JFK:
Ich bin ein Syrian Lesbian
@19 – well, as they say about the Pussers – rum, sodomy and the lash!
And as we all know – the Navy and the Army have traditions, the Airforce has habits.
I’ll be here all week. . .
@17 – as any student of military affairs knows, the greatest victories are ones won without resorting to force, however as Teddy Roosevelt said – best to walk softly and carry a big stick (or something like).
@11 – I heard some terrible stories about how diggers were treated in 1RAR, took them with a pinch of salt and the knowledge that Grunts need to be bloody hard bastards to do what they do. We Cavalry on the other hand were more concerned with dash, flair and elan, and had a culture of horses and men first, self last, that came from the Light horse traditions.
A turret-head. God bless him.
Yes, grunt is the hardest thing of all, the nearest analogy I can come with would be a footy team. Hardship, team work, risk and injury and a sanctuary for troubled souls.
Whereas, Razor, in the Survey Corps no field operation was complete without a full complement of microwave ovens, fridges (in the vehicles), and the wherewithal to enjoy deep-fried Camembert.
I’ll see your flair and elan, and raise you a bunch of creature comforts.
I don’t think I would’ve lasted a week in a grunt battalion, btw.
Jaffles – mmmmmmmm
Did you cook them on top of the engine, Razor? Not a bad idea. (Unless they were baked bean jaffles. In a tank.)
Is taking a shower (yes that is fully nude) under a bucket in the open with the whole Troop/Platoon able to see you really acceptable in mixed company or any other work place?
IMO not such a big deal, in the scheme of things, in a workplace where killing and getting killed together is a routine part of the deal.
No doubt you all recall the old saying:The Army has gentlemen trying to be officers, the Navy has officers trying to be gentlemen and the Air Force has neither trying to be both.
Nabakov, the air force TRIES? How do you tell?
Harsh but fair, Nabakov, although Tyro Rex has a valid point. Actually, I quite liked the RAAF officers I encountered, but they made surveyors look disciplined …
Are there no Kleagles about?
@28 – no. Generally cooked on a gas top right next to the main armament ammo.
Assaults, sexual or otherwise, fairfax are saying that women could be on the front lines within 18 months and women will be bunking with men in the subs
It’s a strange victory for gender equality
Nabs, DINR, in relation to the air force, its a comfort to know that in 30 years time these officer/gentlemen triers will not exist anyway. Tactical air support operations will be done by a mixture of unmanned fixed wing and manned rotary wing aircraft which will be operated by the services concerned (i.e. the relevant navy and army units). Strategic air operations will be covered by unmanned craft. You get much greater patrol coverage for example if you operate say four UAVs off the back deck of each of a couple of frigates deployed (continuously) to the area of concern than you do if you constantly send manned patrols in expensive assets like a P3C out from bases far far away from the place you want to patrol. Ships maintain a 24 hour station (as does an infantry company standing on some piece of territory). Airforce bases are always many many miles away.
Once the air force stop being a force that puts its members in harms way, what is its purpose as a separately organised fighting service? Air transport? Video game console operators? Close air support and strike belongs as a domain of interest of the army, maritime patrol and strike a function of the navy. The 20th century is the aberration; the air force is historically doomed (even space operations, which mostly resemble naval maritime doctrine anyway). Even the USA’s premier air capability is not the USAF but its carrier strike groups anyway. The Navy’s planned new amphibious assault vessels point the way to the ‘littoral’ army-navy hybrid* that is needed for the future of middle-power defence in our region and the sort of “air sea gap” strategic (i.e. unused) threat once embodied by the F111 is replaced with a mixture of things like UAVs (patrol) and cruise missiles (strike).
* in my opinion one of the RAR’s battalions ought to be turned into a permanently-established amphibious operations outfit and assigned to these units. you pongoes will enjoy the navy**, our bases always have the best locations of the three services!
** also by dint of the anecdotal evidence presented here, and for the purposes of topicality, the navy is much more … ahhh … “efficient” shall we say? …. at promulgating unacceptable bullying behaviour.
I agree completely, Tyro Rex, about the location of Naval bases (having spent a delightful fortnight at HMAS Kuttabul a few years ago). As I said at the time, the Navy has the best views, the Air Force has the best food, and the Army has the best heat, dust and flies. (Although Survey Party ration allowance meant we usually ate pretty well on operation.)
I always thought that Navy had the best real estate and food, Army had the best discomfort and Airforce the best days off!
No, the Air Force Messes are slightly better than the Navy’s, or were last time I was in a position to compare them.
Last time I was in an Airforce Mess we were welcomed with the threat of arrest by the civilian police if we broke anything – can’t understand why they were so techy.
@36 – I think for a while back in the 80s/90s 8/9 RAR was designated the focus on Amphib Ops.
We actually should have a Brigade that focuses on the role because you need a brigade to actually support a deployed Battalion.
OBR, watch that space. The Future Land Operating Concept (released last year) embodies a good many of those concepts based on the Canberra Class LHDs.