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27 responses to “Bonn climate talks inch forward”

  1. tigtog

    Some developed countries seem to be continually narrowing the agenda, excluding developing countries’ needs.

    This seems to me to be by far the biggest problem. Many of the people representing their countries with a true urge for progress in committing to strategies and benchmarks appear to be heavily constrained by how the political class at home are insisting upon not taking it seriously enough, too.

  2. Roger Jones

    A 2015 peak in emissions seems about right from the work we’ve done.

    Yep – just checked it. Big overturning emissions scenario coming down very low by end of century, but peaking in 2015.

    That’s a million miles away from the political insanity on carbon prices in this country at the moment – both major parties arguing the toss over a 5% reduction by 2020 from one of the highest per capita emitting countries on the planet.

  3. Roger Jones

    Oh, and another handy post Brian

  4. Incurious and Unread

    Brian,

    “On the other hand there seems great enthusiasm for extending market mechanisms. There is more interest in making money rather than in the science.”

    What does this mean? Is this your hatred of markets resurfacing? Is there some intrinsic conflict between markets and science that I am unaware of?

    Leaving that aside, I can see why the US lacks enthusiasm for these gigs, if they have to put up with 25 minutes of grandstanding from Bolivia. Wouldn’t it be a better idea to hold a party with just the grown-ups invited – say US, Japan, BRICs and EU – and allow them to nut out a deal? That would establish a global critical mass that would allow the remainder of the world to be brought into line through carbon border tariffs.

    Yes, of course, that will mean the powerful oppressing the weak, but wasn’t it ever thus. Do we really expect the spirit of global equity to suddenly break out just in time to save the world? Isn’t that expecting a bit much?

  5. David Irving (no relation)

    I & U, if only the grownups were to be involved, that’d mean the Greens and pretty much no-one else. OTOH, the US, Japan, BRICS and EU are unlikely to come to a sensible arrangement … but the spivs’ll be coining it.

  6. Iain Hall

    Isn’t it just time that you Warministas admit that a global agreement and therefore coordinated “action” is just never going to happen? Because every conference and Gabfest produces precisely the same sort of result, claims of progress which are at best illusory.

    There comes a time when the only reasonable thing to do is to stop wasting time energy and treasure on attempts to control (or even just nudge) the climate and to instead develop way to adapt to what ever may come in the future. Anything else is just pointless hubris.

  7. Jess
  8. Lefty E

    Pricing CO2 works – says Tory NZ PM.

    ”What I can tell you about the emissions trading scheme is that it’s worked,” Mr Key said.”In the time that we’ve had it in place, all applications for new electricity generation have been in renewables, as opposed to 50/50 coming from thermal energy. Secondly, we’ve now had a period of afforestation … as opposed to a substantial period of deforestation.”

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/new-zealand-proposes-joint-emissions-scheme-20110620-1gbvc.html

    Ever feel like youve been backing the anti-reform candidate, OO?

  9. Incurious and Unread

    Brian,

    Sorry if I misunderstood you. But you did express “admiration” for Bolivia’s stance and reported it uncritically.

    If Bolivia is a socialist economy, it is best off using socialist tools (ie central planning) to mitigate carbon emissions. Similarly, market economies should harness markets to do the work. I don’t see any contradiction here.

  10. Incurious and Unread

    Lefty E,

    Did you see media watch last night? As someone who never reads the Australian – and only hears about its views second hand on LP – I am confused. Media watch quoted the following:

    Regular readers of this newspaper will be aware of our consistent support for a market-based price on carbon…

    — The Australian, 16th June, 2011

    Can you (or anyone else) explain what is going on?

  11. Incurious and Unread

    Brian,

    I am not familiar with Bolivia, but I think that a lot of developing nations would see (probably rightly) a UN agreement on climate change as another vehicle for delivering them increased foreign aid, compared to the status quo. Therefore, “support for the science” from them may be special pleading, just as much as climate denialism is for the capitalists. So I don’t know if it is “admirable” although it is certainly helpful.

    In fact, I believe that a global ETS (were it ever to come about) would deliver increased “aid” to developing nations (through the sale of emissions permits to developed nations “buying themselves out of trouble”) far in excess of any prospect of future government aid. Of course, that is predicated on a global deal actually allocating sufficient permits to those developing nations in the first place.

  12. Incurious and Unread

    Brian,

    thanks for that background. I had never heard of the MEF. It sounds like it has become a technical, rather than strategic, body. Not a bad thing, but not what I had in mind.

    I wasn’t thinking of a representative body. Although the whole world has a stake in the outcome, only a handful of countries (treating the EU as one “country”) have the practical ability to do anything about global carbon mitigation.

    I suppose an analogy might be the strategic arms limitations talks of the 1970s. The whole world would be destroyed in a nuclear apocalypse, but only those with nuclear arsenals are worth having at the table.

  13. Incurious and Unread

    Brian,

    “the complaint seems to be that the agenda and the conduct of business is biased in favour of what the rich countries do and don’t want.”

    Unfortunately, that is the nature of the world we live in. The best the poorer countries can hope to achieve is deadlock and, in the context of climate change, that is no achievement at all.

    This might seem callous, but my view is that the most important thing is to get the show on the road. Once genuine carbon mitigation is underway, people will begin to realise that it is far easier than anticipated. When that point is reached, agreements can be renegotiated to better address the needs of poorer nations.

  14. Lefty E

    “Regular readers of this newspaper will be aware of our consistent support for a market-based price on carbon…

    — The Australian, 16th June, 2011

    Can you (or anyone else) explain what is going on?”

    I think they must be supporting that old Howard model, I&U. :p

    In short… no, I cant explain it. Probably the best idea is to look elsewhere, at the overriding priority for Murdoch: destroying the NBN.

  15. Incurious and Unread

    Lefty E,

    Aha! So the NBN is just a diversionary tactic to draw Murdoch’s fire, allowing the carbon tax to advance unscathed.

    It is all starting to make sense now.

  16. Lefty E

    Well, destroying the CO2 market they allegedly support is a small price to pay for proteceting Foxtel, after all.

  17. Occam's Blunt Razor

    Since the Un came into being they have been trying to:

    Get rid of nuclear weapons.

    Stop Genocides.

    Stop famines.

    Given the abject failure on all these fronts – what evidence is there that any environmentally, economically and politically effective global arrangement will be reached on CO2 emmissions?

  18. Lefty E

    Hey look! It turns out our ‘ordinary common sense’ from our political centre on climate issues is *actually* a barking mad form of political sociopathy which should be locked up in an asylum to ensure public safety:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/06/21/3249755.htm?section=justin

  19. derrida derider

    I’m with those who want to leave grandstanding pygmies out – the issue is just too important to be sensitive to their amour propre. Get the big economies (present and future) together, nut out a deal (preferably one including sanctions for freeriding countries), and the rest of the world (including Oz) will have to follow.

    The rights of small nations are as nothing compared to the rights of the planet.

  20. David Irving (no relation)

    The planet’s rights aren’t under threat, dd. It’ll do just fine for at least another 4 or 5 billion years. I’m more concerned about the species that currently inhabit it (including us). [/pedant]

    As Brian alluded to, the small island nations particularly need to be at the table, at least until they cease to exist except as tidal shoals.