An open thread where, at your festive weekend leisure, you can discuss anything you like.
(Prefer to join a more focussed discussion? Try our recent roundtables for recent lively discussions or browse our archives for topics of interest)
NB: it’s holiday season, and analytical articles are going to be on a hiatus for a while. The regular open thread and social roundtables will still be scheduled, but if you’re looking for a dedicated post on a topical issue, you’ll have to wait until after the New Year has begun. You are always welcome to discuss such issues on these open threads.
Merry Christmas to all on LP!
Why is conveyancing stamp duty borne by the seller (contrary to my earlier belief)? And why does it reduce the price by more than the value of the duty?
See “How tax causes financial crises and unaffordable housing” — and have a Merry Christmas.
All I want for Christmas is one of the new Raspberry Pi micro computers. Perhaps an 8-bit computer revolution 2.0?
Do ya’selves a favah and take a trip down LPs cricket memory lane.
12 months on and some of the comments will be repeated, word for word.
How our boys are favourites to beat India,I don’t know.
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/12/27/in-affectionate-rememberance/
Merry Cricket Season all.
Seasons Greetings to all LP-ers.
Find it hard to watch the news at the moment with the spoilt brats from our kindergarten parliament unable to find any humanity within themselves over refugees who come by boat.
OTOh gave a mate a copy of War and Peace as an early Xmas present about which he was delighted.
Second thoughts – if we’d gone to qany presschool in yje country and put the asylum seeker issue before a bunch of two year olds they would have come up with a humane solution. It really is time for Dr. Who with this pack of fools running both government and opposition.
May all of our visitors and contributors here enjoy the best of times and fellowship with their communities over the coming season and recall them with the clarity and nuance that would support sharing these recollections with others not now present in seasons to come.
Bah humbug and a happy new year to all.
I love the way the ABC www site leads with Phil the Greek in hospital, photo and all, while at the BBC www site it’s a one liner way down the page.
Season’s greetings and best wishes to all LP-ers.
Miaowy catmess to everyone, it’s been fun, particularly Fran’s eternal sanity (except, cough, cough, on nuclear) . Here’s something for traditionalists – it has Jesus, consumerism and cats, what more do you want. Personally I’m going atheist grinch and will just lie out under our fruit trees with the wife drinking champagne. Best wishes to all.
forgot the link, here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6-O7E85gBQ&feature=related
Hmm … hubby just presented me with a t-shirt declaring:
the revolution will be tweeted
Hmmm …
165 more tweets and I reach 10,000!
Merry Christmas, season and solstice greetings, etc to all LPers. Thanks for many moments of sanity throughout the year!
Shall we assume you offset the brevity of your tweets with relentlessly long, unnecessarily verbose and thematically repetitive posts on LP, Fran? Do you have technology addiction, I’m thinking of lobbying for some kind of pre-commitment technology to be applied to social media, for sake of people’s scrolling thumbs.
Merry Christmas all.
Just wrote a shortish blog post about an island of rabbits on my long-neglected travel blog.
Fran, does that mean revolutionaries are all twits?
Merry Christmas everyone. For a yuletide stoush, let’s try this data point I collected on China…
At my work end of year party on Thursday night, we all got quite drunk and I ended up catching the train back to my suburb in the company of one of the students, a certain Miss X from China. She revealed to me in a moment of drunken candour that she is actually … drum roll … a member of the party. I have never met such a person! She’s probably only 22, but she joined the party in her undergrad days, because “it is useful,” but she also revealed she was slightly active during the period before she moved to Japan. She told me there are only about 5 million party members in China.
Anyway, so then she told me what it’s like to be a member of the party. Basically, she attended party meetings, and they debated various sensitive issues, including economic development, corruption, treatment of minorities, Tibet, environmental issues, and so on. She said that at party meetings members are encouraged to speak out on sensitive issues and she never got in trouble for disagreeing with the party line. Her friends, she said, “support the One China Policy” but have varying views on the situation in Tibet, for example. She also revealed that she is herself a member of a minority.
She revealed that she didn’t learn anything about Tianamen square while she lived in China, until she went to Uni and met people from Hong Kong, who told her all about it. I don’t think it was a topic of discussion at her party meetings, either.
So, this gives an interesting counter-example to much of what we hear about political repression in China and the nature of the party. Maybe part of the communist party’s durability and flexibility is its willingness to accept (at least some forms of) debate internally?
Merry Xmas to all at LP and may we all enjoy stoushes and robust discussions in the New Year with plenty of whimsy and fun thrown in for good measure.
FB@6
hmmmm…..a convoluted way of saying Merry Christmas, I suppose.
the other FB said:
For some reason, hearing that posting paradigm from you seems apt. Is there such a thing as necessary verbosity? Would that not be oxymoronic? I’m going to take “thematically repetitive” as a compliment — your way of saying I write from a coherent corpus. I assume by “relentlessly long” you have in mind: comprehensive; thorough.
the other sg asked:
AIUI, the generally used term is tweeps. I’m not sure all revolutionaries use twitter though, although it does seem that many do, if we are to believe the propaganda attached to the “Arab Spring”.
Thank you for providing some sanity , thank you for just being a safe havenwhen all else seemed to be falling apart with the bullshit in the mainstream media. You have provided a haven when some of us felt despair and a robust conversation when we disagreed.
Merry Christmas to those that do, Seasons greetings to those that do, and a bloody big thanks to all those who made my year so much more interesting with their contibutions.
On the topic of sanity, NORAD is tracking santa.
Well wishes at this time should perhaps also be sent to the 120,000 protesters or so who turned out in the middle of Moscow to protest rigged elections and the attempt by Putin to seek a further presidential term.
“Well wishes at this time should perhaps also be sent to the 120,000 protesters or so who turned out in the middle of Moscow to protest rigged elections and the attempt by Putin to seek a further presidential term.”
I’m with you on that one Fran. Good to see consevatives mobilising against yet another authoritarian left-wing government:)
Seriously though, Happy Christmas to all LPers from me.
[content replying to a long-banhammered vexator (morphing zir ID yet again) has been deleted]
Merry Christmas all and may your day be deficient in ‘stuff’ but full of real gifts like food and love and happiness.
PeterTB@24 and Happy Christmas to you also, over there on whatever planet you are on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O_KvnBfSvAw
Seasons greetings aren’t
always accepted
Amusing. I’d hitherto not known Putin was on the list righties keep of left-wing regimes. I’d always assumed he was running a rightwing regime. Anti-environmental, likes invading places, posing with his short off, repressive — sounds rightwing to me.
I also didn’t know that conservatives carried hammer and sickle posters too.
It’s always good to read these threads for new insights into the conservative mind.
Roger said of mny post at #6:
Convoluted? Arguably, but most importantly, free of appeals to maudlin metaphysics and located instead within a regard for the value of human community.
FB@29
Yes, FB, convoluted.
Oxford English Dictionary, 1708 pages, hardcover. On page 313, the word “convoluted” – adj- (especially of an argument, story or sentence) extremely complex.
Collins English Dictionary of the English Language, 1690 pages, hardcover, edition. On page 329 the word “convoluted” adj. (esp. of meaning, style, etc.) difficult to comprehend, involved.
I hope that in 2012 you do not advance, FB, to the next level of convolution by wishing Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year in a manner similar to the following:
Please accept, with no obligation, express or implied, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non addictive, gender neutral celebration of the summer solstice holiday practised with the most enjoyable traditions of religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practise religious or secular traditions at all.
I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2013, but not without due respect for the calendar of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make our country great (not to imply that Australia is necessarily greater than any other country) and without regard to the race, creed, colour, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee .
By accepting this greeting, you agree to the following, non-exhaustive, terms::
• This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal.
• It is freely transferable on the proviso that there is no alteration to the original greeting.
• It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/him or others and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher.
• The wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.
Best Regards
Full name withheld (for privacy reasons)
Roger@30 that is a delightful illustration of the self revelatory nature of the comments we make about others. I’ve never noticed FB write like that although I have now seen you do it.
Deconvoluted version “pot calls kettle black”
Ian@31
The example I used is a copy/paste joke I received from a friend two days ago. I do not write in that manner. I am surprised you did not see the humour and took it seriously.
@32 I saw the humour but I apologise for thinking it was original. I just don’t think it resembles FB although she can no doubt defend her own honour.
Thanks again Ian and Roger too. I first saw the original of that piece in about 2003/4, though it reads as being somewhat older — perhaps 1990s.
It’s well composed and it’s verbosity is part of its satire. It is in part an appeal against the litigious and fractious nature of contemporary culture, though one can’t but note that it trades also on the right-wing appeal against “PC”, and thus against respect for cultural diversity, inclusion and the connectedness we humans have with the world beyond ourselves. It always struck me that the piece was a cri de coeur from someone asserting the not quite coherent neoliberal multiple sovereign paradigm.
Of course, perhaps the author hadn’t thought that far through it.
Ouch … I just committed the unforgiveable misplaced apostrophe error!
[and it’s verbosity is part of its satire]
I self-condemn! How embarrassment!
It’s an interesting issue of approach rather than verbosity, isn’t it. People like me just throw sneery lines at right wingers rather than waste time arguing with them, on the basis that their authoritarian personalities are immune to rational argument but they both condone and respond to bullying so a bit of a whack will sometimes pull them back into line.
Fran on the other hand analyses and expounds on the nuances of their mistaken positions in the hope that by treating them as rational adults they will respond positively. In the process she often educates the rest of us who aren’t immune to intelligent thought, or at least she raises other issues we hadn’t thought through. That’s not verbosity, it’s rational debate, she’s not the only one who does it and here is not the only blog that has it eg John Quiggin’s blog also. I really cant imagine why anyone wold find fault with it unless they are hate media consumers who have ended up here by mistake.
For the record, the earliest record I can find of Roger’s text is 24-12-2003.
And more importantly, a tense opening session at the MCG.
The inclusion of Marsh, based on one T20 tonkathon, has proven a selection mistake as predicted. Punter showing resolve early.
Now that christmas is over I guess we can get back to stoushing? So I thought I’d add this …
I don’t think it’s being covered much in the western press that I can see but there are regular reports on the train news here in Tokyo of shutdowns of nuclear reactors. This morning’s report was the shutdown of all of the reactors in Kyushu, which as far as I know were also shut down a few months ago. The Japan Times had an article on reporting of nukes that mentioned troubles at Kyushu plants, but it isn’t just in Kyushu – areas around Osaka and Shizuoka have also had shutdowns, I think.
It could be that these shutdowns are routine and are just being reported more since March, or it could be that since I moved to Tokyo and read train news every day I’m just seeing the reports more. But I think not. I think that the various power generators are aware that post-Fukushima there is going to be a tougher regulatory regime, and these shutdowns are the generators getting their (previously quite dodgy) house in order. If so, it doesn’t speak well to how dodgy they were before March that they have been so regularly shutting down this year.
Cowan lookes every bit a test opener, a good leave, saw off the new ball and left his ego off the pitch, forcing the bowlers to bowl at the stumps,I like the look of him.
I condemn Melbourne weather also ( admittedly, on the wrong thread).
Was at the Christmas dinner with neighbours last night. Some of their friends began running their own version of the Daily Tele on asylum seekers. I have asked this before here I’m sure but I do wonder what the ethical obligations are in such circumstances. Stoushing seems like bad form but OTOH silence could imply consent. I decied to take a middle course — seeing if the convesation line dropped like a rock or was carried on to a point where I couldn’t ignore it. After some affirmation from others arose, I chose to intervene, albeit in polite and rather socratic tone — what inclines you to that view? and if I hear you rightly, you seem to be claiming that …. Some of them chose a backpedal and the instigator took a hint that he was being controversial and went silent. I’m not sure if my approach was adequate, but I chose silence thereafter on the issue — unusual for me.
In an unrelated Christmas note, a friend of mine found himself in the city on Christmas eve. Annoyed by the gridlock, he ignored the red signal and effected a right turn. A person on a moped cruied up beside the drivers’ window and said: not a lot of green in that red light. Sadly, my friend reports that he responded with the kind of f-bomb based imprecation which is common for the male of the species in such settings. He then looked more closely at the face of the person at whom it was directed — and as it turns out, it was, of all people, Russell Crowe.
How ironic — though fortunately his phone was not ready to hand.
Jumpy
I think it too early to say Marsh’s selection was a mistake. He wasn’t selected for his T20 performance except to the extent that it indicated he was fir too play. Marsh is one of a pool of players to whom Australia will need to turn when Hussey and Ponting are finally thanked for their services and moved on.
It’s regrettable that Warner hasn’t taken on board the basic rule in that book called First over after Drinks. His basic technique is good, but his concentration is a little flaky. He is very vulnerable after a break, and really ought to take a fresh guard and put aside the imperative of scoring from the first half dozen deliveries after an interruption. After his six, I thought he ought to have ignored the next two short balls from Yadav just on general principles — and especially the one aimed at his body. The waived runs are worth it for the annoyance to the bowler.
Cowan seems a very good choice, and I reckoned his claims to selection much stronger than Warner’s (despite my admiration for the latter’s stroke play). Apparently, Cowan had got on the wrong side of Chappell, G.S. and this had not helped his cause. Cowan has looked like a test opener in the first session, striking the gift deliveries for boundaries and playing everything else like someone demanding that the other side get him out. Particularly in a test match, that’s no bad thing. I hope he gets a big century. He seems to have the temperament for it, and you can’t teach that.
Fran, I agree with all of @42 except Warners’ ” flaky ” attitude, He seems an intimidatory player in the mould of Gilly and Haydos, yet immature,on this occasion he failed in his execution. I would hate to suppress such confidence and bravado. And Yadav is bowling well and executed that ball (first up) well. Had it disappeared over the pickets, a different tone of the match develops. That the beauty of test cricket .
I must say i am surprised that you are a fan of the 2nd most prolific sporting symbol of the spread of the monarchy across the world.
But common ground is common ground.
If the weather improves, we may both enjoy the test.
I think Cowan could turn out to be one of those very important types of batter – the one who holds his wicket, keeps the runs ticking over and forms one half of a solid partnership while the other bloke gets flashy.
So do I Mindy. There’s something to be said for being able to play “the long game” metaphorically as well as literally. Cowan is 29 — and knows that merely being good isn’t enough. You have to be present when opportunities arise. He knows the shot isn’t as important as the session, the session not as important as the day, and the day not as important as the match.
Good sides have players with a range of strengths, who know how best to support the side. Traditionally with openers, you have one that can blunt an attack and can be around for when the lesser bowlers are asked to deliver a ball with a flat seam on a track that is playing true and another who can put the attack to the sword if it isn’t quite on its game.
I like the potential of Cowan and Warner, and continue to think that Khawaja can play a role in the line-up. I’d like to see Watson batting around 5 or 6 where he could see the second new ball, or flay the bowling when there are already 200 on the board. You don’t want a guy who is expected to bowl 25 overs in an innings and perhaps 15 in a day opening. That’s asking for trouble.
I also endorse the ” no referral ” decision, let the on-field umpire officiate I say.
Ed Cowan — 50* on debut … well done him. I won’t even hold Cranbrook against him …
At least on LP could we desist from “batter” and use “batsman” or “batswoman”?
I agree completely with all that has been written about Cowan, still have my doubts about Warner, and regret the omission of Kadich.
Meanwhile, it is a comfortably unhumid night in Melbourne, so maybe we are in for uninterrupted play tomorrow.
I’d sooner we used gender-neutral terms Fiona. Gender does not define the tasks of those wielding the willow any more than it does those delivering the ball, or protecting the bowling in the field.
Also, FTR, it’s not Kadich but Katich …
Jumpy
No it doesn’t. They just peg him as a compulsive hooker, and if he stops they say he’s intimidated. One of the advantages the striker has is to keep the bowler guessing about his/her like shot selection. That should not be lightly cast aside and particularly in circumstances where one needs to recompose one’s attention to the contest in play.
The game is not merely between bat and ball but between the minds of the bowler and the striker. The striker seeks to have the bowler misapply his/her energy, to win minor battles at the expense of major ones, and vice versa. When Warner understands that and builds his play around that, he will be a better and even more intimidating player.
FB:
A “batter” carries a round stick and plays baseball.
Either that, or it is the thing that the fish & chippery operator coats your fish fillet in before dunking it into the deep-fryer.
Either form of “batter” doesn’t play cricket.
Terangeree
Language is a living thing. In cricket, while the term “fieldsman” is often used, “fielder” is now more common. The people whose role it is to add to the batting team’s score perform a role analogous with batters in baseball. I see no reason not to borrow the term.
Fran,
Players on the team that isn’t wielding the bat are usually, from what I’ve seen, referred to either by name or by the position in which they’re fielding.
“And Bloggs runs in from the Ponsonby Road end to bowl to Sloggs, who gets an edge on it, but it goes down and is picked up by Third Slip.”
FB@53
Then you should have no objections if a wicketkeeper, whose role is to catch the ball, is called a catcher; a bowler is called a pitcher and some fieldsmen are called shortstop, centerfield, left field and right field.
Objection from ambiguity (there are other close catchers) and redundancy — the wicketkeeper has a name determined purely by function.
In the field, the “name by function” applies — e.g square leg, fly slip, long on, cover point … There are no batters as they have no bats, even if those positions are filled by batting specialists.
“In the field, the “name by function” applies — e.g square leg, fly slip”
Fran! In the field, you have fielders. You field in or at a position. You aren’t called that position. Your captain doesn’t say, “you’re square leg”…he says, “go to square leg”, or yells “Fran, square leg!”
Wicketkeeper, bowler and batter (or batsman/woman/person if you prefer, and want to teach young kids that kind of language…do we still call it “women’s cricket” too, as opposed to the real kind?) are the only names by function.
Happy holidays, LPers!
Nick said:
I beg to differ. While it’s standard for the captain in the field to address people by name and signal, a description of events by a third party might speak of “the gully” or “the square leg” being set finer or wider and/or deeper or shorter.
http://www.rediff.com/sports/1998/oct/30comm1.htm
“atapattu on strike, last ball of the 14th, cronje, on off and flicked, finds boje at square leg, just three in the over.”
This is correct cricket commentary…it describes what it describes…
“crookes continues, dharma the man on strike, 99 now needed off 78 and no one to get them. 22nd over, first ball, dharma drives to long on, gets one more. 126/8.”
The commentator is still referring to the position here, not the fielder – however, as they only ‘got one’, there was clearly a fielder at long on…
“atapattu flicks, beats midwicekt, gets the single to the sweeper”
This is even closer to what you’re talking about
However, the first isn’t a title by function, but an elision of ‘the fielder at midwicket’. The second is an exception to the rule…
Do b and i tags not work any more?
On the batter/batsman debate, I yield to the experts that commentate on”win” and abc.
And they say batsman and never batter.
I am confident that they are more knowledgeable on this topic than myself or even Fran Barlow.
No they don’t Nick — now “b” = “strong” and “i” = “em”
If you can’t stand the heat, then maybe you should have a cup of tea.
Thx, Fran!
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/36855907
jumpy, here’s an article from 1838 which uses both terms interchangeably…so let’s not get too hung up on it. One’s a lot more common, but that doesn’t make the other incorrect or an Americanism…
http://www.lords.org/latest-news/news-archive/maiden-ton-for-record-breaker-atkins,1129,NS.html
You can also find many references to male ‘batters’ on the Lord’s website.
@55,
No, you’ve got it wrong, a bowler is called a bowler just as a batter is called a batter and a fielder is a fielder. Those are baseball fielding positions you’re referring to, they don’t exist in cricket.
@65
If you read FB@53 and then carefully my comment you should easily deduce I was referring to baseball fielding positions. It’s not me that was wrong.
This really is one of the most tedious stoushes ever.
My apologies to Mr Katich for mis-spelling his surname (and the only excuse I will give is my vyle cold).
As for “batter/s” vs “batsma/en”/”batswoma/en”, I think that “batter” whether singular or plural is deplorable. The only acceptable alternative, in my opinion, is “bat”.
Which, I hope that even Fran Barlow might allow, would permit some entrancing speculation when a “bat” is out of form…..
@tigtog @67. Yes.
I’m sorry, tigtog, but there’s one sports-related question that I’ve been wanting to put to the test for years:
How many people are fed up with those descriptive terms attached to cricket / football (all codes) / basketball / netball etc etc etc teams?
I’d much rather know what the NSW or Vic cricketers are up to than to be told about the doings of the Blues and the Bushrangers. I’ve probably got that wrong, too, which just goes to show what a success the whole marketing exercise has been.
Keep it simple, and we might keep interested, stupids.
It’s simply not cricket to call a batsman a batter. Good Lord heaven forbid. It simply must remain a gentlemen’s game with good old fashioned batsMEN even if they’re . . . women.
Fiona@70 Don’t worry, it’s only the transitional phase before those names are replaced by the names of trans national corporations. The process is already almost complete in the sport of yachting.
jumpy yielding to the ‘experts’ will be your undoing.
Again, ambiguity is the problem, though it is sometimes used casually as in “X is the best of their bats”. Perhaps we could begin calling them either opener or (after) first drop, second drop etc … or perhaps “No3, 4, 5 & etc …
@66
Ah, I see. then you’d prefer to call a bowler a bowlman then? That would fit better, bowlman, batman, fieldman, umpiresman, 12th manman. Looks good to me!
One of the main reasons John Howard was considered the greatest national living bore was because he could only talk about cricket or politics.
John Howard and his chauffeur were driving along a country road and they accidentally ran over a boar.
John Howard sent his chauffeur to the nearest farmhouse and told him to offer money for killing the animal, with his most sincere apologies.
The chauffeur is gone a very long time, and when he comes back he has a wad of money, wine bottles and has lipstick all over his face.
The chauffeur says to John Howard “I had a great time boss; you never would have believed it! The father of the family gave me a wad of money, the wife kept bringing me bottles of wine and the daughter would not stop kissing me”
Mr Howard asks his chauffeur “What do you mean? I can’t believe it! Did you tell the family what I told you to say?”
“Sure did boss” says the chauffeur “I went to the door and said “g’day, I’m John Howard’s chauffeur and I just ran over the boar!”
I’ve just added this to the OP, repeating it here to make sure that everybody sees it:
NB: it’s holiday season, and analytical articles are going to be on a hiatus for a while. The regular open thread and social roundtables will still be scheduled, but if you’re looking for a dedicated post on a topical issue, you’ll have to wait until after the New Year has begun. You are always welcome to discuss such issues on these open threads.
Hey Fran, a Xmas present for you.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/12/28/christmas-in-the-radiation-zone/
Huggy
A question for those around and paying attention at the time – what’s going to be in the cabinet papers from 1981?