An open thread where, at your weekend leisure, you can discuss anything you like, including why the scheduling date for this was originally for tomorrow by mistake. Apologies for the delay in appearing!
(Prefer to join a more focussed discussion? Try our recent roundtables for recent lively discussions or browse our archives for topics of interest)
Hi, Lp-ers. I’m back with the sight in one eye restored, The operation was a bit like going on a plastic flying carpet then waking up to find your eye restored. My TV is now very bright. Watching Capitol Hill yesterday my attention was taken by some bird behind the interviewee cavorting around a white gum in the Parliament House courtyard. Well sort of cavorting. Strange things you notice when the world has turned into a cavalcade of excessively bright colours, Sort of reminds me of my very misdspent yoof. Y’know, all those different coloured balls on the pool table in the pol hall up in Kings Cross.
And I can see the cursor which sort of makes it much easier to use the computer.
Love The Straits, which I’ve been catching late Fridays on ABC2.
And politics. Seems like we;re stuck in that movie about the hairy American rodent.
Awesome news, Paul! That’s made my day
So, what are the chances of a second Rudd ascendancy? I would have considered that it had about the same odds as the earth being hit by a meteor and plunging into a second ice but what, with the media’s maniac obsession with the topic it would now appear that it’s inevitable. Then what do we do? It will be a bit like having two cars land in you swimming pool.
Welcome back, Paul Burns!
Patrick, I don’t have a swimming pool.
Ah-ha! No-one can ever call you a one eyed bastard again PB. Well done.
Can I just boast that my blog has been picked up for archival in perpetuity by the Australian National Library ? Oh. I already have.
It’s all Greg Jericho’s fault . Agen.
And KRudd and his supporters should be shot at dawn, not for treason, but for aiding and abetting the return of the Coalition. Nutters (both).
Great news PB.
Fantastic news, Paul.
@4
That’s OK, it can be an imaginary swimming pool. Like Abbott’s imaginary policies.
patrickb?
more like manic than maniac.
what strikes me in all the trumped up tripe going on is the amazing orchestration.
it’s like a tag team or relay race.
fairly interesting to watch,but the content?
boring as.
it’s all try-hard opinionators.
Welcome back Paul. As a gesture of solidarity I have decided to contract the flu…cough…splutter.
Good to be back.
A new Rudd ascendancy? As some character on The Drum said if the edia predict it often enough its sure to happen. They have to do soething. Regardless of the runs Gillard gets on the board, and there she is doing well, I reckon, her public profile, accurate or not is dangerously negative.
…. a liar, shifty, not answering questions. sees to me she spent a lot of time watching Howard – oh, I forgot ruthless – and decided that was the way a PM should act. Bad decision, Julia, even if Ratty was in for years.
The on my coputer seems to stick sometimes, especially at the beginning of a word. Yeah, I know, get a new keyboard.
Yay good news Paul, enjoy the the new sight.
The Straitsis a bit too violent for me, but love the camera work and can recognise some of our local characters here interspersed as extras.Yeah federal politics, groundhog day and two cars in a swimming pool sums it about up. Mind you, apart of the parliamentary soap opera produced by their msm, we seem to do pretty well considering what goes on the rest of the globe. This minority Government looks to be well ‘balanced’ with the Indies and Greenies and is, while not perfect, productive. I am optimistic, beyond the Greek chorus of megaphone politiking, there is subtle storyline emerging which has potential.
Leave Julia alone.
Great news about the improvement in your eyesight, PB.
Congratulations PB!
Irony is not lost in our polity … truly — hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue.
Great news Paul.
Great news Paul and I’m really enjoying The Straits too.
Indeed … welcome back Paul …
Terry @ 13. That is just priceless.
Christopher Pyne — the Barney Fife of Australian politics.
Congrats Paul!
Good to read you again Paul. Hope it all keeps going ok for you.
Re: the Ruddster
I’m yet to see any significant Labor figure come out and publicly say on the telly or anywhere that KR should be back in the big chair. Some MSM refer to the ‘Rudd Camp’ – who or what is that? Others to ‘Rudd backers’ – but again no names attributed.
Okay, in the Oz today (yes, I buy it on Saturday) there was a list suppossedly of those on Gillard or Rudd’s side. But is it a made up list!!?? Some names are on both sides!
Actually I’m starting to wonder whether it is all part of a Shorten Strategy to get the big chair. He could be the circuit breaker, the deal maker, the clean skin etc… Could this have all been part of his plan from even before JG got the job?
Charlie, Rudd Camp is a mystical land where people say things like “I’ve got to zip”:
Doesn’t sound like a challenge to me. Hang on …
Charlie,
) one of the reporters on just this very issue of lists of supporters said the Oz reporters just made them up. Surprise surprise! (of course, they might have just been being a nasty leftie.)
re names in the Australian of Rudd/Gillard camps.
On, I think, last week’s Insiders (and they’d know, wouldn’t they?
If i bang my m key it works. No need to buy a new keyboard.
That is the reporter on the ABC. Not on the Oz.
Yay for you, Paul.
So Channel 7 says Rudd has the numbers.
The SMH says Gillard has.
This is the real game though.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/government-totally-dysfunctional-abbott-20120218-1tfm0.html
If the ALP won’t commit suicide by having either Gillard or Rudd stand down then this meme is what will do it in the next month. Sooner or later the Governor General will have to call a halt to things and just hand it over to Abbott.
Screw having an election. I reckon the ALP might just win and the whole cycle would just run for another year until we have an election that gives the ‘right’ result.
Let’s get real. We change our system to be democratically run by representatives from mining companies, employer groups and the media. Save us a whole lot of paperwork.
The sad thing out of all this? I think Rudd would have made a great PM. And I think he’s one of the best foreign ministers we’ve ever had. He MUST GO. Our betters have put the message out and he’s only causing himself pain staying on.
@23
I agree completely. The national media appear to be having a conversation the content of which we, their audience, aren’t privy to. Each day Coorey, Hartcher, Gratan etc breathlessly report the alleged activities of identified individuals in places unknown. And they call this reportage. WTF happened to who, what, where, when and why?
Seems to me that the ABC are concocting the Rudd challenge with unattributed speculation and rumour. I find this piece, put to air today as a news item, as quite astonishing:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-18/more-leadership-speculation/3837736
“Unidentified individuals”. As I said before, having just got back from a US holiday the contrast with their media is startling. The kind of childish knob- polishing we see here just isn’t tolerated there.
@30,
Just watched some of the report. The leadership “destabilisation” is apparently happening at a “frenzied” pace??? Why can’t we have some actual statements from the frenzied ones then, are they too dangerous to approach? And apparently “right faction conveners” have been “observing caucus”?? Were they sitting in cunningly crafted hides, wearing anoraks and drinking thermos coffee? This is really Playschool level stuff.
Hot tip guys. I’ve gotten a list of the numbers hot off the press (well my printer actually.)
I can tell you that some of the names that are either for Julia or Kevin include Rolf Harris, Mother Teresa, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. How long can this chaos continue for?
I look forward to the media settling into relaxed and comfortable mode when the ‘right result’ happens. With enough force I’m sure a square peg of the media’s will can be pushed through the round hole of the electorate.
I hope there is no leadership challenge and the press gallery look like gullible fools.
tssk, I believe Schrodinger has a cat that is simultaneously voting for Julia and Kevin.
Robert….I think you win the thread for that. Schrodinger’s challenge!
Looking at the media mouth-frothing this morning it seems to me that the Oz media have decided to bring on a coup against the PM themselves. Bless their cotton socks.
I sympathize with those frustrated at the media-only, source-free nature of the so called leadership challenge.
But I’d remind you that this is exactly how it was when Rudd was rolled.
And he was popular!
In moments of quiet desperation I like to imagine the PM and Mr Rudd have cooked this whole thing up as a divertissement.
@33
“I look forward to the media settling into relaxed and comfortable mode when the ‘right result’ happens”
That’s certainly what happened over here in the West once Barnett was elected. Pre-Barnett, similar “govt. out of control” stuff. Now you’d hardly know there was a govt at all such is the apparently controversy free nature of all of their policies and the almost zen like serenity of the Liberal/National minority govt.
Same here in VIC. You wouldn’t even know Bailieu had a paper thin, one seat majority by reading the papers.
The Australian media is truly the liberal party at keyboard.
And in the do not look over there and not reported here department ….
Near top news story, in the “world” section of google, is the visit to Wapping of the head of our Newslimited to face up to staff who have been dobbed in to the bill by his crack legal team. Any of who that have been charged he apparently is keen to keep in work.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/media/9089316/Rupert-Murdoch-lifts-suspensions-on-arrested-Sun-staff.html
@13 Terry – Haven’t had such a good laugh all the week. Christopher Whine “I think it’s unAustralian…..etc….humbug……humbug…..”
He’s such a jolly little fellow isn’t he?
@33Tssk – You forgot Dr. Who and Darth Vader, every single one of the Daleks, Snow White and all the Dwarves and how could you omit The Tooth Fairy, along with all the others who didn’t make your list. A bit remiss of you really.
Kevin Rudd has sunk very low in my estimation whether or not the challenge is a fiction of the media. To my way of thinking, he shows a meanness of spirit and an unending capacity for revenge by not fronting the media (and people like me who thought he was great) and denying any challenge, calling the bluff of the weakminded media and their rapacious bosses.
@1 PB – I’ll add my best wishes to all the rest.
DI@35
That’s the problem for the media.
The longer it goes on without a challenge, the sillier they look.
The longer it goes on, the less people are likely to be interested (leaving only us political nutters looking in).
The media are approaching a point where, either they will have to drop it and look foolish, or keep it up and just lose people who don’t want to waste an hour or so of their life listening to old news. So they are desperate to precipitate something…anything.
So the media have a vested interest in there being a challenge. A clear conflict of interest. A case of the oxymoronic ‘journalistic ethics’.
mediatracker @45 Rudd knows that no matter what he says it will be twisted into a challenge. Even a denial would be presented as proof. If he smiled/frowned/injected botox into his face to make it an impassive shield as he said it there would be examinations of every tick or absence of.
Patrick @42, I have a theory about this. I don’t think the media are Liberal supporters. I just think under Howard they got to be a bit lazy. Plenty of money went into their employers pockets in political advertising and they didn’t have to leave the office to chase stories. Just grab the latest Coalition release off the fax and the day’s news almost writes itself.
There is no sinister right wing conspiracy. It’s just the path of least resistance.
Welcome back, Paul!
@mediatracker I’m not sure I trust the media to report it even if he did.
Yep, welcome back Paul.
As far as the Baillieu government goes, while it only gets polled every few months, the honeymoon for the Coalition seems to be waning. The 2PP voting intention (which had blown out to Bracks-like levels) is back to pretty much line-ball at 51-49.
Labor leader Andrews comes across as competent and his party seems to be holding itself together.
Meanwhile, the lack of (publicized) activity from the Baillieu government is striking, and what they have done hasn’t exactly been breathtaking in its implementation.
Just out, Kevin Rudd in a cameo performance.
hilarious.
Welcome back Paul. Good t see you recovering.
On topic who the hell leaked this?
http://youtu.be/uOUFKZBpFTY
Rudd’s career as a politician over. I’m sure we’ve all had moments like this. But for now we’re all going to pretend we haven’t while we crucify Rudd.
Bah, swearing and wanting simple answers is not that bad a look. Positively Australian, and far better than “fair suck of the sauce bottle.” That better be intended a warning shot, because that if that’s the worst tantrum they’ve got….they’ve just disproved Rudd has anger issues.
Great to see you back Paul! and add me to the list of people glued to the Straits every Thursday, despite the gruesome killin’s (I’m from Melbourne, the home off the Williamses and Morans etc, so we’re hardened.)
Me too, Paul, all the best. The Straits is good for a lot of reasons, not the least because it’s not set in inner city Sydney or Melbourne or some ridiculously idealised country town.
tssk your chicken little routine again! Judged on your previous ‘predictions’ Rudd will be PM in a couple of weeks.
No doubt it was leaked by Gillard supporters but it just confirms how stupid they are. Over at PB which seems to be dominated by the ALP right these days, someone’s even suggesting it’s a leak from the Rudd camp to make Gillard look bad.
Ditto from me on both counts! Hope it all goes well, Paul.
On The Straits, at least it’s just the baddies killing the baddies, but it’s very well done. Amazing characters and a very different and splendid part of Australia.
Indeed. They kicked off with an openly elitist (and really quite sleazy) attack on the parents of public school kids (who apparently need to be detained by teachers) – and now they bumble onward with a really crappy policy of having armed wannabe/ rejects from the police patrolling stations.
Aside from that, its their laughably daft rubbish about alpine grazing, open slather for their developer mates, and otherwise sitting around at the Melbs club awaiting their inevitable termination by the electorate. Will it be 3 years, or 6? No chance of these C-graders making 9.
I have to say, I laugh every time I see someone berate Rudd for not coming out and declaring he wont challenge.
Leaving aside the obvious point of what possible basis such loyalty might be owed, maybe he doesnt want to see his and Gillard’s acheivements flushed in 2013. Hell, You may find yourself thanking him later.
Any chance your tune will change in 2013 when you see Abbott crazed eyes sizing up yon Lodge with a 55-45 poll 8 weeks out?
Be honest.
+1 on Welcome back Paul and on The Straits.
And I also wonder if the youtube video may work in Rudd’s favour though think it unlikely it was leaked by him. But I can imagine myself behaving the same as Rudd here – if that is supposed to discredit him we’ve become as precious as the Americans. The only thing I can find against him in this is his naiveté in allowing this to be filmed and purportedly used against him.
If that youtube video sinks Rudd then Australia is truly a sad little place. All of us have behaved far worse when trying to use MS Word or Powerpoint. He was obviously practicing a speech … in Mandarin …
faustusnotes @ 60 – I don’t think the video will do Rudd any damage. Makes you kind of wonder about the dirt files that politicians are keeping on each other (even their own side), ready to bring out when required. If that’s the best they’ve got though they’re definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Paul: glad to see your eyesight restored in one eye. Is the other eye in working order? Hope it is.
A one-time leader of a political party swears in private? Deary me. We don’t want that sort in office.
I feel sure PJK or Bob Hawke would never have uttered the f-bomb or got frustrated enough to get narky in private.
Anyone freaking out about the Rudd “expose” needs some precious time with themselves. That is not a diplomatic scandal. This is a diplomatic scandal – or would be, except everyone appears to have forgotten about it three months later.
The men were caught bitching about Netanyahu on headsets, unaware that journalists were listening. But it blew over relatively quickly.
Plus everyone knows Netanyahu is a card carrying asshole. They were only saying what everyone was thinkin’!
Fran @ 63,
I know you were being sarcastic but it was just another excuse for me to hit up the Keating insults archive.
Keating on Bob Hawke:
“
http://www.webcity.com.au/keating/
The annoying thing about this is that today there’s going to be a whole lot of pearl clutching by conservatives over this video which was something that was happening behind private doors.
Yet Tony Abbott criticising Bernie Banton for instance is seen as laudable as it shows Tone’s ‘authenticity.’
The media are trying to create a Whitlam style atmosphere. I’d say they’ve succeeded. I can see no way any other party but the Liberals can operate in this country anymore.
Glad to hear your eye is functional again Paul. All the best.
The first thing to come out of Rudd’s mouth today ought to be “shit happens”.
The You Tube video looks like to came from the same geniuses in “Team Gillard” who allowed the PM to re-enact scenes from The Bodyguard on Australia Day.
With the speed at which the Gillard leadership is now unravelling, Wayne Swan may have time to return to university teaching in time for Semester 1.
That video’s tops! Australians will love it, just like the strip club episode .
In fact, I’m assuming it came from the Rudd camp.
Re KR & Youtube:Surely the people who saw fit to leak this material should be the focus here and I would expect that youtube would not accept anonymous material with prior editing and attribution (not censoring). I have no problem with the material at all but I do expect these people to be identified and to explain their motivation for the release at what could be considered a pivotal time . Utube have already had problems with publishing defafamatory material – not that I consider this to be in that category – but they would know the source.
The You Tube vid will allow Barrie Cassidy to use the words “febrile atmosphere” on Insiders this morning.
Who seriously thinks that this YouTube tidbit undermines Rudd’s leadership claims?
If Gillard loyalists leaked it they must be as stupid as they are desperate.
And why is this piece of thistledown the lead item on the ABC news?
Australia’s political culture is puerile.
I agree with Wantok re: the edited YouTube video of Kevin Rudd. It is not a diplomatic incident. I just checked a few Asian news sites and could not find it being reported. I hardly think it will do Rudd any damage either; it is a tribute to the incompetence of these political players that, even though I think Rudd was a control freak, they have made him look like an innocent victim of nasty right wing plotters.
But it does say something about the poster(s). They keep playing these childish political games. This follows on from the tent embassy stunt, a misjudged granting of an interview to Four Corners, and many previous gaffs. Where is their judgement? Where is their ability to initiate a policy debate? They are still playing at student politics, on a national stage.
The media gets criticised for focusing on personalities and leadership contests. But you can’t blame the media when Labor insiders give them material like this. Personality contests seem to be all many political advisors within Labor ministerial offices are capable of. They are too busy trying to score points off their opponents to engage in the main game, which should be selling Labor’s achievements, setting an agenda, and trying to engage Abbott in debate. They know how to win power, but not how to lead. Abbott, like Rudd, realises that all he has to do to win is remain on the sidelines, and watch the train wreck.
Here’s the real clanger from Rudd:
Admittedly, it was in that lie machine The Oz so I’m putting an asterisk next to it, but really — can’t he manage the correct form of the past participle?
It sounds as if he was a little rattled. More seriously, if accurate, it suggests that he wasn’t the source of the leak. Presumably, he’d have had his lines down pat.
Thanks Fran. That sort of grammatical slip clearly rules out Rudd from being PM! Give me the erudite Anthony Abbott for, ahh, true leadership.
Wantok @ 71 – YouTube lets anyone upload videos without any checking of identity. They probably do some automatic detecting of copyright material and respond to take down notices, but there’s 48 hours of video uploaded to YouTube every minute so no one is reviewing it before it being published (what a sucky job that would be!).
Unless someone’s been stupid Google wouldn’t have any more than a time and an IP address. Of course given its probably an ALP staffer you might be right
Well, to borrow from TA himself — if he does become PM — sh|t happens.
I cringe inwardly when I hear Swan say “particuly” and “inferstruckcha”. It would be nice if they could manage something like the dulcet tones of Michael Kirby. I assume that in the foreseeable future, that coherent politics based on the struggle to achieve equity in public policy is not in prospect. If we are to be obliged to endure yet more years of vacuous and often reactionary codswallop, bundled with utterly craven pandering to the Murdochratic Fourth Estate, I’d prefer a more pleasing patina to be in evidence.
From the DT on the Rudd video:
Maria of Penrith Posted at 9:22 PM February 18, 2012
I can see the snake Gillard’s dirty paws all over this.
Gold.
Random observation – if this was an ordinary employment situation the employer would be very vulnerable to getting sued for allowing a culture of bullying and intimidation in the workplace.
Past participles change, Fran.
So sick of this leadership stuff. The fuss about the Youtube is puerile. But this is the standard of politics and political reporting we now have.
The Press is revving up a leadership change as much as they can. Labor would be insane to swap back to Rudd. But, I’m pretty much sure he, or his supporters, are feeding the chooks on the issue. He should at least deny he hasn’t any any leadership ambitions. Or if he has, he should get on with it. This is just destabilising a government which is doing some good stuff. But, we rarely get to hear about it.
They do, but this one hasn’t, to the best of my knowledge.
It may be the case that another leadership change would totally trash the ALP’s chances for re-election. It may not. Either way I’d welcome Rudd’s return. I couldn’t give a fig that he ALP faction chiefs don’t like him, find him difficult or abrasive.
Robert Manne, writing about Rinehart, Monckton and the MRRT states:
Anyone who thinks that Gillard and her cohort aren’t at the beck and call of the interests who organised a coup against the person who rid us of Howard is naive about the hard, moneyed politics at play here.
dear akn
some say they’re sick of the leadership stuff – i’m sick of waiting. at long last my day in the sun has rolled around. now i get my satisfaction. i get come back for having my prime minister stolen by a pack of spivs, careerists, and bloated plutocrats. what you say! this is the long awaited sequel to “coup d’etat by proxy” – “mcbeth’s revenge”.
yours sincerely
alfred venison
What I’d love to see: Bob Brown get up and accuse the media of fabricating the leadership speculation rumours – to their faces. Like to see how they react to that. And Bob’s not one for being shy about belittling journos and the organisations behind them.
Dear man(?)-with-apple-floating-in-front-of-his-face,
I usually enjoy your missives and your performative homage to e e cummings. However, on the now-closed Gina Rinehart poetry thread, your final verse punctured a stratosphere too lofty and esoteric for my metrical feet of clay and my thumbnails dipped in tar. I did not (let’s not mince words) get it.
In any case, strength to your arm, and long may you continue to eschew the ‘shift’ key.
PS – Is that apple bothering you? How often does it need changing? Feel free to respond in a dashing hexameter.
I remain, &c.
“There is no challenge on, we have a prime minister, I am the foreign minister.” Rudd told Sky News recently.
Will the belligerent urgers shut up now?
Read Andrew Elder’s blog about the media frenzy for Labor to commit suicide by implementing The Ruddstoration
see http://andrewelder.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/oxygen-thieves.html
In summary the opposition want Julia out before the Carbon Tax, MMRT, NBN, Health Insurance Rebate changes are implemented. As the media are now more firmly under the control of the iLiberal editors like Stutchbury, owners like Murdoch and Reinhart, ABC board members like Liberal candidate Judith Sloan the interests of the common man are no longer reported, analysed or discussed.
For those who want to know, cataract op on left eye probably three months from early March, (assuming there are no problems because of the spasticity.)
Re the K Rudd U Tube trying to record Mandarin. It isn’t going to loose him any votes. Some brave soul on Insiders predicted Gillard would call the challenge when Rudd gets back o/s. If she was as ambitious as she is alleged, she’d call the leadership ballot while Rudd was overseas. It’s good old ALP tradition. After all, it was rumoured Bert Evatt rushed back to Australia’s shores at the death of Curtin so he could contest for the leadership but he didn’t get to dock till after the ballot, so Chifley became P.M. Don’t know if the story is true.
@88 Rudd did not rule one out. He deliberately fuels speculation by deliberately not ruling a challenge out. Saying he is happy in his job and that there is not a challenge is not the same as ruling one out.
The ALP is reaping what it has sewn. Suck it up.
CMMC @ 88 – yep, no challenge. He’s waiting for Gillard to be forced to either resign or declare a leadership vote. He wants to be asked by the party to return.
Meanwhile Wilkie puts his support behind Rudd. Having fun throwing a bit of petrol on the fire I guess!
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/wilkie-says-rudd-easier-to-work-with-20120219-1tgqk.html
On a different topic, although I’m happy that Klitschko beat Dereck Chisora to retain his world heavyweight title, I’m sorely disappointed that the old man didn’t turn Chisora to mush, given the back story.
Chisora (17 fights, 15 wins, 28yo) slapped Klitschko (45 fights, 90% by knockout, 40yo) in the face at the weigh in, after which Klitschko (presumably channeling Keating) was heard to say “You are fucked now, Chisora, you are really fucked.” Which, coming from a 6ft7in Ukrainian monster would surely be chilling words. Sadly, being 40yo now, Klitschko wasn’t quite able to decorate the walls of the Olympiahalle with Chisora’s brains, and had to satisfy himself with a win on points. Which I guess will take his knockout rate down to a humbling 87%, or something – but still his knockout rate is higher than the challenger’s win rate.
If only we could all be in that kind of physical shape at 40 years old!
dear mr venison (a.)
at post 85 on this thread, you wrote about “bloated plutocrats.”
i fear that you may have stirred a nest of hornets with that word.
yours in lower-case,
terangeree
Wilkie backing Rudd. There’s a LOL right there. Nice one Team Gillard strategy dept!
My take : the Gillard govt has been better than the Rudd, but only because of its minority status . I’ve seen enough to conclude a Gillard majority govt would have been worse: a dismal MRRT that’s actually gives more to mining co’s in deductions than it takes, the most unprincipled refugee policy from the ALP ever, and effectively off shoring foreign policy to the US state dept.
Thankfullly they didn’t get free rein.
And where Rudd can beat Abbott, Gilllard probably can not.
That’s good enough for me. Pass more reforms till early 2013, then Switch horses.
PB@89 your anecdote about Evatt being overseas with a leadership vote impending reminds me of an amusing incident I read about during a leadership vote/challenge in British Labour in the fifties in a biography of either Atlee or Wilson. Members were being sounded out and being asked to say who they would vote for between the two candidates. The Foreign Secretary at the time was in India and as a senior member of the government he was urged to write a confidential letter to both men letting them know who he supported before hopefully getting back to England before the vote. The letters were duly sent but the FS was unable to get back to England before the vote. This was probably a good thing as it was subsequently revealed that he’d sent a signed confidential letter to both candidates assuring them of his support.
Interestingly, Wantok@31, Latika Bourke says in part of Gillard:
The verballing continues. Others, trolling her, described it as a carbon tax so as to be able to say she had lied. She ran dead on the nomenclature in what has proved a PR-disaster. Latika of theirABC, even in her now minor asides is rendering service to the Murdochracy.
@OBR then I can’t wait until Abbott is reaping what he is so busily sowing. It is not going to be pretty.
Lefty E @ 94,
Yes, Rudd can beat Abbott and really that is all that matters at the moment. Gillard probably can’t, unless the electorate and the power elites have a sudden epiphany (otherwise known as a brain-snap). Of course, if Rudd returns as PM it won’t be between Rudd and Abbott, but between Rudd and Turnbull. (Unless the Libs are really as stupid as Labor.)
And Anna Bligh will be able to come out and vote at the Queensland election. [Not that I intend to be ageist or anything but having got my eyesight back isn't Capbell Newman - an inspired typo so I left it - a bit young? Or is it only me who thinks he looks like Babyface somebody or other.]
ps I also saw the meltdown at the Fukishima nuclear plant clearly for the first time yesterday too. Everybody on TV looks ten years older.
Whoever posted the Youtube footage of K Rudd getting shirty over a Chinese New Year recording: if you’re in the Gillard camp, own goal! 95% Rudd-positive comments apparently.
Or was it posted by the Rudd camp to prepare the way for Rudd to put the message out that he is no longer so hot-headed?
My head is spinning!
Andrew Wilkie is now in the Rudd Camp, but Barrie Cassidy remains a rusted-on Gillardista. He’s still smarting from being stood up by Kevin on the Insiders episode before the 2007 Federal election.
dear Mercurius
so gina’s shut down; only a matter of time, once they opted to play the repeat in the first movement, as it were. and another signal failure of self-regulation.
since others were dropping i favorite poems from time to time, i offered ezra pound’s canto xlv as apposite to the theme of poetry, money & sin, deadly sin or economic sin. i’d been told years ago by a friend that she’d first encountered the poem in school so it was a bit of a test of her claim. maybe my friend was mistaken. or went to school in another state, in another time.
pound published the cantos serially from 1922 to 1967; canto xlv is second in a set from 1937 focussed on economic issues. there is an article on the cantos at wikipedia & a reasonable overview of those “economic” cantos can be found there. take a redirect from the “canto” disambiguation page & do a control-f on “canto xlv” – that should land you at this canto & near the start of the part dealing with the economic cantos as a group.
but for a good blow by blow crib to canto xlv, i recommend carroll f. terrell’s 1980, canto by canto, exegesis a companion to the cantos of ezra pound, now available to peruse on google books. its a shirty layout, but good enough for a once off rough guide to a single canto, you’d want page 178 ff. for xlv. i’d recommend it once with the poem, it won’t take long, and, besides, you should be doing your homework anyway.
i like “e.e. cummings rules ok” at home, at least. i’m long in the tooth & worked many years in records management, where there’s a lot of typing and case often matters. i took the view years ago at uni to minimise keystrokes wherever i can. i started by settling for certain “american spellings” whenever they have fewer keystrokes, and lately i’ve added the cummings style. i’ll tell you what, it makes editing whole lot easier; i vaguely saw that upside at the beginning, but its panned out big-time. ampersands i got from blake, and “&c.” for “etc.”, too.
its a man behind the apple – a belgian man, whose stuff has been around. and the apple? no, it never bothers, it makes the whole thing possible.
yours sincerely
alfred venison
In your dreams Paul. Turnbull shot himself in the foot with the Godwin Gretch thingo, and won’t be back in the top job.
Abbott is as intelligent as Rudd, more principled, and has already seen him off once. Rudd’s only hope would be to call a snap election as soon as he regains the PMship, and hope the electorate doesn’t wake up until after the election.
dear Terangeree @93
no, no, no, no, no. don’t let your horses run away with your knickers, or somethink. i was referring, of course, to the admittedly mixed bag of ‘em, by the shared characteristic of their bloated “plut”, that is their wealth or riches, by sole virtue of which, they would have it, they’re owned a table at the governance banquet that’s better than ours.
yours sincerely
alfred venison
Still think she didn’t lie? Then please explain exactly what it was that she was ruling out when she made her “No Carbon Tax” statement before the election? For those voters who believed her, I mean.
Likewise what was the Swann ruling out when he mocked the “hysterics” on the opposition benches?
You are like broken record Fran – just accept that Gillard lied. It will be easier for you in the end.
PeterTB, she explicitly stated that she would legislate for a carbon price in the first year after the election. That’s what she did. FFS!
I don’t know what’s worse: that a lunatic like Rudd is working himself in a position to become prime minister again, that the current government is so incapable of dealing with this man in an effective way, or that the national media think that the whole disgraceful and degrading spectacle is what passes for news politics.
I’m not about to bore folk here with another redux. If you are really interested, you can find my view on this all over the web, including here. Faustusnotes retells the short version.
My point above was that Latika Bourke was verballing her. It wasn’t how she described the CEF package.
And just FTR, while Gillard has disappointed many left–of-centre folk, in part from walking away from what people hoped she’d do (and sometimes what she led them to believe she’d do — MPC comes to mind) to the best of my knowledge, she has told no lies. I say this as someone who finds her regime to be conservative and often reactionary.
Fran, you and faustas are relying on a nuance that would be lost on the “reasonable voter” – who Gillard was directly addressing.
“Abbott is as intelligent as Rudd, more principled, and…….”
This, from Abbott the man of ‘principle’, according to PeterTB, just a few short days ago, in endorsing a particularly crude piece of Murdoch vilification of asylum seekers, by Daily Telegraph‘s Gemma Jones …….
……..Earlier today, Mr Abbott told the Nine Network that community release had been taken to a ”what looks like a whole new level of luxury”, following reports in News Ltd tabloids today that asylum seekers were given ”welcome packs” worth thousands of dollars, including DVDs and plasma TVs, when they were released into the community.
”I can understand why millions of Australians would look at [that story] and think something is just not right in our system,” Mr Abbott said.
“The message is going out loud and clear to the people smugglers and their clients and potential customers: the red carpet is being rolled out, there is a welcome mat waiting for you here in Australia.”
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/abbott-criticised-over-asylum-seeker-comments-20120217-1tcs7.html#ixzz1mbE6SvBu
Fran, when even Michelle Grattan says that “The carbon tax is a broken promise” (SMH yesterday), you should realise that you are on the wrong side of the argument. Add that one to the broken promise to Wilkie, fibs about her past role with the Socialist Forum, and those on her role in Rudd’s demise, and you will see a pattern of dishonesty that is bringing the office of the PM into disrepute.
Aside from the dishonesty, it is becoming evident to all but the most ideologically blinded, that she is simply not up to the job. Among these I include her caucus colleagues who seem to be coming to the view that even life under Kevin could be better than continuing with the lying plodder.
Speaking of apples, and the liking thereof, it was great to see another of Matthew Collings’ series on SBS yesterday, he’s my favourite of the popular tv artz explicators.
An alliance of the spurned eh, Terry? I’m reminded of one of those horrible interviews with Howard where he moaned and kvetched about Peacock’s disloyalty and how much it hurt his feelings. It’s one of those situations calling for specialist parsing, I think: You’re a disloyal, leaky rat, I’m a clever manipulator of popular opinion manoeuvering in secret for the good of the nation. Bwahaha. I can confidently predict that should he succeed there will be 0% of Gillard supporters advocating people vote for Abbott in a dummyspit of monumental proportions. Nominal figureheads not being sufficiently important to warrant throwing 52%+ of the population under the nearest bus.
it is becoming evident to all but the most ideologically blinded, that Tony Abbott is simply not up to the job.
There, fixed that for you.
His current job is to hold this goverment to account.
Can you point to a single government stuff-up that he has failed to highlight?
joe2. One of my ongoing frustrations with Tony is that he is too willing to comment “off the cuff”. The Telegraph article was, of course, only part of the truth, and Tony should have informed himself properly before mouthing off.
“Can you point to a single government stuff-up that he has failed to highlight?”
A better question to ask , PeterTB, as his capacity for being totally negative on everything is not in doubt, is when has the msm taken Abbott and his team of incompetents to task for anything?
Abbott, as official endorsed candidate of media, generally, just feeds off the supposed failures of government that they repeat and repeat.
PeterTB said:
The “reasonable voter” reads past the headlines. The “reasonable voter” reads all of the words in context and examines policy in context. Unreasonable, indolent, ignorant voters rely on what the Murdochracy says the world is like for their opinions.
What a way to start a claim against the ALP … Laughable.
we can ignore this as, at best, more intellectual indolence but more reasonably, more paying her dues to the Murdochracy . FTR, even a broken promise — (which it was not) — entails no lie.
In any event, this has nothing to do with Latika Bourke’s verballing of Gillard. Do try to stay on point.
True, but even better would be — when has he said how things might be different and better? Never.
PeterTB, a man of “principle” and as “intelligent” as you suggest would not shoot off at the mouth as Abbott constantly does on such important issues. Though, I do not believe, for one moment, that he did not know what he was doing in responding to the DT article or before the tent embassy uproar.
He is a constant dog whistler and unworthy of any important position, let alone P.M.
I thought Abbott’s job was to provide an alternate vision for Government and at that he is failing badly. Every policy proposal he puts up is uncosted or dodgy and his constant negative carping leaves no room for anything else. Unless you have the wealth of Gina or Twiggy you are not going to be better off under an Abbott government.
As for the Government’s alleged failures – the BER has a 97% satisfaction rate but he counts that as a failure. WTF? We avoided the GFC and house fires have gone down since the insulation scheme. If you squint very hard and ignore all the evidence then I suppose these could count as failures. But you have to lie through your teeth but Abbott is good at that.
Geez, Shorten has really done well in leaking stuff to keep media and blogs preoccupied while (? whilst ? Fran, liddlehelp) white anting both current and former PMs. He just neutered ABCC so unions are free to act illegally again, but noooo, what are we focused on?
*Prediction,Shorten ALP leader by Labour day.
tssk, your thoughts?
“Can you point to a single government stuff-up”
Right of course Peter, there haven’t been any stuff ups. Whatever Abbott is on about is only present in his imagination. Good on you for pointing it out!
peterTB, a “reasonable voter” might or might not be forgiven for being mistaken – after a year of media misrepresentation – about whether this current system is a tax or a price. But you have been told repeatedly about this, and yet continue to use it as an example of Gillard’s dishonesty.
Which makes me think that you don’t really know or care what a “reasonable voter” might think on the matter.
There is little explanation out there for why Iran cannot be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons. If anybody can briefly educate me here, I’d be grateful.
An arms race is exactly that. A race. Between more than one participant.
If the world doesn’t want Iran to go nuclear then we should remove the
reason why Iran feels the need to become so armed.
Iran is surrounded by countries either armed with nuclear weapons (India, Pakistan, Israel, Russia, China) or else colonised by the US, the biggest nuclear power of all (Iraq, Afghanistan).
It doesn’t seem reasonable for Iran to remain unarmed.
sactly ( she’s right for once) and therefore condemning herself.
Jumpy, you and everyone else here knows my view. The media want the current ALP leader rolled….doesn’t matter for who.
And then there will be an immediate call for an election.
If that happens and if the ALP gets up for another term the media and Abbott will just have another crack at it over and over until the Australian people get their vote ‘right.’
I suspect that some might even vote against their interests just to get rid of the noise.
Mindy @120 has the most succient response. And PeterTB I suggest you read through it. And then just ignore it or state the opposite. Because you’re right, anything said over and over becomes the truth.
Occam @90. You know as well as I do that if Rudd said anything to the media about a challenge, even a complete rebuttal it would be quoted as his leadership challenge. Denial is proof and all that. Rudd is trying to deny the media fire oxygen and I suspect he’s probably happier as foreign minister.
According to ABC-TV news this evening: “It’s On”,
the leadership contest, that is.
Chris Uhlmann compered a special report, so with his imprimatur, no doubt can remain.
Allegedly some of the PM’s supporters predict wreaking “bloody vengeance” and waging “jihad” should she fall. Others of them are calling Mr Rudd a “political terrorist”.
Pots and kettles not in short supply, evidently.
From “The Australian” online:
Mr Rudd said suspicion surrounded the leaking of the video, but he also used an interview recorded with Sky News late last night to address criticisms of his leadership style before his ousting by Ms Gillard in 2010.
“The bottom line is I think you do learn. And what I’ve tried to learn is do less in a given working day rather than trying to do everything,” he said.
“I also think it’s important to delegate more and be sort of happy and content about that. On top of that, most importantly, consult more broadly as well.”
Doctor Faustus, that doesn’t sound like a man trying to deny the media oxygen, does it? Someone fanning the flames, I would have thought.
Both Rudd and Gillard have been much better ministers than Prime Ministers, but neither are likely to be satisfied with that job position anymore. I am however rather hopeful that Rudd has learnt some lessons from him being sacked as PM.
I think he could be a much better PM than he was last time. He certainly has a much greater ability to inspire and lead the general population than Gillard has demonstrated and I think that is something the country really needs.
umm, I meant
tssk
not Doctor Faustus.
The Vegetable By-product Toast Spread Jingle
We’re happy little Vegemites
As bright as bright can be.
We’re undermining Julia
At breakfast, lunch, and tea.
Our chummies say we’re growing stronger
Every single week,
Because we love our Vegemite
We all adore our Vegemite
It puts a rose in every cheek.
…. with apologies to the nation.
Abbott’s principles will be fatal for Abbott’s political career.
Tony Abbott’s principles are, quite deliberately, not the principles of a man who plays for longterm success in this hideous, conventional politics we decadent so-and-sos fawn over. He’s an insurgent for the spritual self, after all. You don’t stand athwart history shouting ‘No!’ because you’re planning on becoming a bureaucratic administrator of this materialistic system you think so utterly rotten. This is the most important difference between him and Howard, though undestandibly few people Left, Right or centre want to give him any credit for having this wild non-Howardian streak in him.
OTOH KRudd is such a longterm thinker he fooled himself into thinking he could wear down the mining industry in the same way his generation of Qld reformists wore down the Bjelke Petersen police state mentality.
If a chastened Rudd is allowed back I don’t like the chances of Abbott deciding he too must rectify his own flaws.
Abbott consciously deciding to ditch ‘No!’ is like Julia Gillard waking up tommorrow and saying, “I think I will make an effort to be popular with Australia.”
Absolutely correct.
Wbb: there is no reason, only rationalization (I know yours was a rhetorical question), based on the puerile notion that absolute military domination and the cowing of one’s neighbours is the only way. I’m being repetitive here but I read a very interesting analysis of the military subsidies to Israel, written by an Israeli, that proposed the theory that the size of those subsidies, and the secret nuclear weapons programme, made Israel less, not more safe, as a massive disparity in hardware only serves to destabilize the region further.
Faustas, she lied.
Own it.
Of course since the government has rolled over for persistent interest groups (miners, miscellaneous subsidy seekers and pokie profiteers), it is not suprising that the media feel that they can invent a challenge, keep promoting it (in the face of no challenger whatsoever having the numbers), and the government will roll over and give them legitimacy by acting as if there is a challenge.
The more the government gives in to vested interest groups, the more other vested interest groups will want to get in on the act.
Sorry Fran – your’s is not a sustainable position.
93 per cent of responses on the Youtube “Happy little Vegemite” video are favouring Rudd (“likes” on the one with comments disabled; the other, less viewed version, where comments are enabled, seems to be running about the same proportion of pro-Rudd comments).
That has to count for something amongst the backbenchers who will of course be in there noting.
Heh “Abbott no Captain courageous” is only serving the “Queen of No”. In the instance of a sudden regime change it will get politically very interesting to say the least. However, the bleating of their msm will stop and the punters in the rat races can go back to be relaxed and comfortable.
@136
How long have you followed politics? Mate, they all do …. GST …… core/non core ….. AWB ….. war in Irak and in any case according to Tony as she has not written it down it is quite legit to change your mind, it was not a pledge in blood!
Katz @ 134, you’ll appreciate this added irony; to be a political example which works, I think I’m comparing Abbott to Vietnam-era Arthur Calwell.
Maybe even Dr Jim Cairns. As I can’t think of any Liberal leadership types who suffered from this kind of abstract impulse.
I don’t know which analogy is worse for the Monk.
Erm, are we talking about the same Abbott no Captain Courageous captured by the Queen of No.
@138 is a hoot. He seems to have forgotten the Cardinal Pell lie and the “don’t believe anything I saw unless it’s scripted” admission/furore/debacle. I think the bloke needs to come down of the mountain, the air’s way to rarefied for a mortal such as himself.
Hewson was the only other conviction politician who led the Libs. But he never got a chance to run the country because Keating knew how to exploit his Achilles heel.
In Abbott no Captain Courageous by Leonore Taylor
Peter TB is sort of right, but not in the way he thinks:
What Gillard cant admit is this: there’s no way in hell she would have introduced a CO2 interim fixed price (which she has never disputed is effectively a tax) had she won majority govt.
But she didnt win a majority. The GRNs forced her hand.
She won’t admit that in public, since it plays to Abbott’s fear campaign. So instead she just shrugs and cops 2 years of this ‘liar’ shit from the Tories. She pretends the GRNs arent a key influence in the package – which I tend to see as the ‘lie’.
Dare I suggest, another dreadful, dreadful error from her strategy team.
The MSM would have gone for that ‘blame the GRNs’ bone, and she wouldnt be widely considered a liar. She’d instead be dealing with a “dupe of the GRNs” meme. I tend to think she’d be able to handle that better, since its disprovable over time. Where the liar one hasnt been,
Link for above quote
And put into the equation
Where as the real power within the opposition lies with
In The Peta Principle by Andrew Elder
Ah, yes, the feral abacus.
But I don’t think Hewson MHR believed in much of anything outside his particular systems analysis model. He’s really only just got around to historical legacy stuff in the last half decade with teh People Power.
The monk has been on a destiny kick since at least the time he stopped thumping people.
Ootz @ 144, but that’s the robotronic Hewson trying to understand Abbott’s motivations, largely based upon his memories, I presume.
Look at Jumpy quote:
Compare:
Jumpy implies these mean the same thing, which is proof that being on the right can either destroy one’s ability to make sense of the world, or one’s ability to describe it honestly when the tribe demands a duty.
My opinion is that the “carbon tax lie” albatross is a secondary rationalisation.
The primary emotion of hatred witch Gillard inspires in so many people is because she was disloyal to her main man. So disloyal she castrated him (politically).
Both women and men I speak to feel the same way about her. It is impossible to discuss policy considerations, minority government etc etc with them. Their antipathy boils down very quickly to a totally unconsidered and emotional basis.
Even those (like LE) who correctly predicted the disastrous nature of the backlash against the regicide in 2010, surely wouldn’t have imagined, back then, the intensity of the reaction amongst so many people.
Those like me, who discounted any electoral revolt over Rudd’s toppling on the spurious reasoning that people lost faith in Rudd, have been forcibly re-educated that there is a lot more to what gives popular legitimacy to government than wishy-washy concepts like democracy and policy.
It will be interesting to watch the internal liberal dynamics playing out, with Sinodinos’ new razor gang trying to address concerns, that the Liberal Party’s spending proposals cannot be funded and therefore putting its hard-won reputation for fiscal responsibility at risk.
Youre absolutely right Wbb. I havent been surprised by the fact of it, but I have by the scale. People who comment here are 100% right that it has been magnified by icky mysogynist crap that should leave us taking a good look at ourselves as a polity.
But that’s not the main thing going on: The public believes they install our head of govt. They understand perfectly well its not like that constitutionally, but those details are for pedants, who miss the big point. Moreover, theyve been perfectly consistent about this stance for years (remember the republic referendum).
My take is that the challenge is in fact coming, this is actually on. If Rudd wins it, they public will feel they have their PM back. What they then do with him is up to them. But a lot of good will be generated by it no longer being up to the faceless men.
If Gillard goes down – dont waste your sympathy people. Seriously – dont. The ^%$#&wits who destroyed her promising future were her own key supporters, and particulalry Shorto, Arbib, Feeny and that mob.
I remain convinced this was done merely to stamp factional control over the party. And behind that, somewhere, a wannabe future leaders sees the upside of torching two bring Labor careers inside 2 years.
The happy ending is this: if restored, even after all this, Rudd will take Abbott right to the wire in 2013.
@126 Tssk – a Shermanesque statement would suffice.
I don’t know about the centrality of the factional thing, LE. They panicked, no doubt. The media was feral at the time. David Marr had just written Rudd’s obituary. It looked close to terminal. All those on the left were in a deep funk. And the big thing to remember is that nobody inside the ALP would own up to have ever liked Rudd in the first place.
So it was a perfect storm.
Media putsch, popular disdain, panicky factions, no friends. And Gillard was standing there, halo shining so brightly, ready to step up. They all collectively fell for the illusion.
I remember myself, once I’d got over the extremity of it, felt that we’d come out the other side of a bad dream. But f*** me. I hadn’t seen nothing yet!
Since youse all want to talk about the Labor leadership, I’ve made you a thread!
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2012/02/19/the-labor-leadership-roundtable-we-had-to-have/
Well, not quite perfect. The opinion polls were fine. Remember those heady days when the ALP 2PP had a 5 in front of it? Pretty much always?
I do remember the self- delusional funks of the elites, sure.
I should reiterate I wouldnt now have it any other way – Gillard brought us the miracle of minority govt, which has been among the best of my lifetime.
But if we want another govt that isnt Abbott – time to put the King back on the board.
Who knows whether the ALP will be wise enough.
@151
“The ^%$#&wits who destroyed her promising future were her own key supporters, and particulalry Shorto, Arbib, Feeny and that mob.”
Hear, hear. The smooth transition could have been arranged about … now probably and we’d have a strong female PM with plenty of runs on the board and an opposition lead by Joe Hockey or Chris Pyne of somesuch non-lethal nonentity. Sigh … instead we have … this pathetic excuse for politics. The Rudd debacle was a bit like the fall of the Berlin wall, it just has to happen, so the story went, and we will emerge into a bright new landscape full of bunnies and ponies and sparkly birds. Bollocks to that. It was obvious that we were entering uncharted territory on both occasions something that ALP right geniuses should have thought about except that part of their brain has been carefully excised.
PeterTB at 136: learn to read, and to spell. No, she did not lie, and you can only pretend she did by pretending that a price is a tax. It makes you look stupid and disingenuous, like Tony Abbot.
“The opinion polls were fine.”
Not really, LE. They were bad enough to scare the horses. I know you have an optimistic mind-set that always allows you to disregard Abbott. (unelectable!), but there were plenty of ppl fearing the worst under Rudd at the time. Doesn’t make what happened the smart move. But the climate at the time shouldn’t be airbrushed away neither.
@158
Looks like a winning strategy to me. And as a successful plan, it has history on its side whereas deposing a first term PM is a tried and proven … oh sorry …
Looks like its time to (again) remind (some of) the assembled masses what the Leader of the alternative government thinks about governments varying their policies from those promised at a recent election:
I believe there was a 2 week period of trailing in there wbb. He was up 52-48 when they dumped him, from memory. Suffice to say, it was hardly a case for action.
The thing that puzzles me more is how people forget the mauling Rudd gave Abbott in the health policy debate . I’ve never seen any oppo leader get handed his own arse as a hat like that, ever.
wbb said:
I think its becoming clearer that Gillard just standing there not really wanting to PM just yet was also just an illusion, though an important one to help ameliorate pulling down a first term PM.
Patrickb @ 163 – well if we end up with a Abbott as PM, hopefully the liberals will also try that winning strategy
PeterTB tried defending the credibility of Michelle Grattan as a commentator:
There’s simply no basis for thinking Ms Grattan has anything to add to an understanding of Australian politics, beyond, possibly, the intellectually suffocating grip of the Murdochracy on Australia’s boss class talking heads.
Perhaps the most ironic and amusing feature of Grattan’s commentary is her persistent resort to the phrase “I do think …” which always portends some banal and derivative observation the provenance of which lies between the press gallery bar and the offices of some Murdoch outlet. Plainly, she doesn’t think at all. She merely repeats signals.
LE, there seems to be a disconnect between the actual polling and the pessimistic perceptions at the time of what the polling portended.
eg: Pollbludger June 23, 2010 on the night of the Gillard move
This ought to be shocking:
A YOUNG Labor candidate has stepped down for allegedly posting offensive remarks linking homosexuality with pedophilia.
The Courier-Mail says Mr Watson has been linked to online posts making offensive remarks describing homosexuals as “degenerates” who should be “wiped out”.
“Homosexuality and pedophilia go hand in hand with each other,” a post written with his name states, the paper says.
“To deal with one you must deal with the other in order to wipe them from society.”
In another post under the his name, Mr Watson is said to have masqueraded as a neo-nazi to “get information out of the enemy”.
“Allegations have been made against Mr Watson, which he flatly denies,” Mr Chisholm said.
Caveat: It’s News Ltd …
Mindy, you requested more information about my concerns regarding the Greens and greater privileges for land holders.
It stems from presentations given at the Environmental Defenders Office [SA] conference on Biodiversity and the Law. Mark Parnell who is now the a Greens member of the SA LC was formerly the principle solicitor at the EDO. Ruth Beach who has run as a Greens candidate in the a recent state by-election, and the last Federal election, is a current principle solicitor at the EDO. During her presentation she advocated for greater incentives to private landholders to protect the biodiversity values of their properties, via granting more money through Heritage Agreement incentive schemes, and NRM ‘in kind’ support to landholders. Through this scheme, landholders receive rate reductions for their properties, and they receive ‘in kind’ contributions that, in theory, sees the State match the landholders contributions to biodiversity through ecosystem restoration. In 10 years of working in this field I can think of only one landholder who actually contributes anything close to their obligations under these schemes. I think of the 20 properties I’ve worked on in the last couple of years, only 3 landholders have done anything at all. One property owner has received in excess of $100,000 dollars in public funding, and the end result was actually more destructive to biodiversity than doing nothing. It is wealth redistribution of the worst kind and some of this states wealthiest people know how to exploit it. In my experience the only people who have offered ‘in kind’ works of any merit have both been farmers and the people least likely to do any work at all are people who buy properties for their conservation values.
The money used to fund this is taken from every landholder in the state through a levy on land title holders, and handed over to people who have the luxury of being able to buy land as a feel good gesture. The EDO make statements like:
“natural resources management is innately contrary to the protection, restoration and enhancement of biological diversity in that the management of natural resources is commercially based and aims at a commercial return.”
Well that’s nice, but the biggest chance we have of achieving restoration is actually by working with people who are running commerically based enterprises. I have been working on a dairy farming property this week and it is pretty damn humbling as a passionate conservationist to realise that in my lifetime of physical slog, I’ll achieve less in terms of actual land under effective management than one enlightened dairy farmer. Likewise, the the per tonne levy that wine grape growers pay is contributing to better research into the merits of biodiversity in vineyard management than anything dedicated conservation programs are achieving for valuing natural assets.
Public levys should be spent first and foremost on public lands, and we stand a better chance of achieving conservation on private lands with in a ‘natural resource management’ framework than some feel good program aimed at hobbiest landholders who haven’t got a clue about land management and think that you can get rid of blackberry with the aid of a goat. Yep just munch through the entire vegetation, because that would be better than using teh evil [but highly effective] selective herbicide.
Yes, I get where you are coming from. I agree. Thank you.
St Furious, I find that many of the members of my Greens branch look at me with pursed lips when I mention that I’m using glyphosate as part of the weed management strategy on my modest paddock (20 acres at Robertstown).