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29 responses to “CO2 hits 400 ppm”

  1. Paul Norton

    Well done, Brian – as always.

    Joe Romm argues that it’s even worse than we think.

  2. Paul Norton

    To those who remain unconvinced by the scientists, I say follow the money.

  3. BilB

    When you look at the trend indicated by the graph it is pretty clear that it is game over with Global Warming Action. We are heading for the worst of all options, and very rapidly. I think that my earlier guess at this that we have a maximum of 20 years of Global Economic Stability ahead of us.

    That means that we have that much time to prepare a programme of national food security. The real risk items are broad field crops such as wheat, canola, corn, and other grains. You can write seafoods out of your future diet as ocean acidification will decimate shell fish, algal blooms will kill off near surface fish, and unchecked fishing will thin out the rest. Green vegetables and sugars will remain available as cane is very robust and vegetables can be grown under cover, but dairy will be less abundant.

    The real risk is for city dwellers and surges of supply and famine. The problem is that violent weather events being ever more frequent will make it difficult for farmers to survive from one weather failed crop to another. People in the country, or at least people in the luchy parts of the country will not have food problems. People in the city, however, rarely have more than a week’s food on hand, and as the economy weakens this will become acute.

    So even though it is about 10 years too soon for there to be any real need I am starting the process of learning how to preserve and store food. Woolworths and Coles greedy march for excessive profits have triggered a rash of food processing plant closures around Australia (I passed at least 2 on a Mothers day family picnic drive on up the Hawkesbury Valley) and this has to be making our national food production chain less robust.

    So it is going to be stepping back in time 150 years in the interests of family survival. Preserving fruits and vegetables, storing grains, and growing greens in the back yard. We are just going to have to learn all over again.

  4. Robert Merkel

    I hate to raise this again, but given the current levels of CO2 are already too high for a safe climate and it will take too long to reduce them naturally, we’re going to have to seriously look at geoengineering.

  5. Paul Norton

    Agree, Robert. The thing is that we will also need to insist that geo-engineering be considered as complimentary to emissions reduction, rather than a substitute for it as some would have it.

  6. BilB

    I think that you are dreaming on that score, guys, for all of the same reasons that CO2 emissions reduction has been ineffective.

    The Mount St Helens explosion sent 1 cubic kilometer of ash into the atmosphere and had only a minor effect on atmospheric reflectivity. What would be done would have to keep being done for hundreds of years in a world where fossil fuel energy supplies are becoming ever more scarce while being utilised at the maximum extraction rate until fully exhausted. No doubt there are some who will suggest that this can be bridged with nuclear energy. I believe that would be further delusional thinking.

    The other negative is that solar energy delivery to the surface would be reduced to some degree possibly affecting food production and solar electricity production, marginally.

    The scale of geoengineering, I believe to be way beyond practical, political, or economic cooperativity limits.

  7. indigo
  8. BilB

    You’ll have to tell us what the 10 points are, indigo, as they are pay walled and there is no way I am paying $10 for Bolts twisted thoughts.

  9. Helen

    Bilb: Go to the paywalled link, grab the “teaser” paragraph text and paste it into Google. Follow the resulting link to the same article to overcome the paywall. You probably won’t want to bother in this case, but might want to in others.

    One of Blot’s “10 points” (following the current fashion for Lists in articles, I see) is “people are relaxing”. (presumably having been fed tosh like Blot’s and having accepted it as fact.) Well, that’s scientific. I feel so much more relaxed myself, don’t you?

  10. John D

    In my optimistic moments I think the world may be getting close to an action tipping point where the world lurches from doing not much to suddenly going on to a climate war footing. Several things are contributing to this optimism:
    1. The growing number of climate crisis (such as hurricane Sandy) that people are starting to believe are being caused by climate change.
    3. The clear melting of the Arctic – makes denialism harder and harder. Particularly given that scientists believe that this melting is driving all sorts of climate problems in the Northern hemisphere. (Sandy and heavy snow falls.)
    4. The dramatic decline in the cost of renewable energy.
    5. The reluctance of financiers to invest in fossil fuel.
    And….

  11. BilB

    Thanks, Helen.

    Is Bolt ever rational on any issue at all? The body relaxes after rigor mortis has passed, maybe that is what Bolt is seeing. It tells you something about his sources.

    JohnD,

    I’m optimistic that Climate Action will get underway seriously too, but everything that we are witnessing tells us that what ever happens will take too long to ramp up to full effectiveness. There is far too much drive behind the CO2 injection rate and far too much elasticity in the efforts to curb fossil fuel use.

    Taking a primarily market driven primary approach to carbon reduction was a massive mistake. It should have been an electricity use levy, funding market players to build renewable infrastructure. This in conjunction with carbon reduction incentives and penalties for non electricity industry sectors. This was Rudd’s failing and it was fully decided before the election in which he became the PM. I had a number of phone conversations with Albanese before the election and I could almost pick the date at which the path was set on Climate Change.

  12. jules

    Wow I feel a bit stupiderer for reading Bolts artickle. There’s a minute and a half of my life i won’t get back.

  13. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    400ppm. Yawn. So what?

    Without exception, all the models used by various cli-fi true believing AGW cultists to predict the ecopalypse have proven to be wrong. Sorry, chaps, the scam is ending, and the various con-men who profited by it are kicking back in their mansions counting the cash.

    And no, I cannot be bothered debating with cli-fi true believers who deny the science which has demonstrated by measurement that the great glowball warmenating is not happening. It’s the modern equivalent of believing that the Earth is flat.

  14. BilB

    MK50,

    I see you’re fully doped up with Bolt for tonight’s comment attempt.

    Its good, at least, that you are thinking about these things.

  15. jules

    They’rer not thinking. They’re trolling.


    I cannot be bothered debating with cli-fi true believers who deny the science which has demonstrated by measurement that the great glowball warmenating is not happening.

    Not capable more like. You’re an idiot and you’re wasting our time.

  16. jules
  17. Mk50 of Brisbane, Henchman to the VRWC

    I actually don’t get the constant Bolt references. It’s not a site I have time to frequent beyond the odd look.

    What I do is actually read the current scientific papers. I changed my mind on AGW in 2002 when the fundamental flaws in the AGW computer models became obvious to blind Freddy, and have seen nothing since to offer any further support to the AGW hypothesis. The heat is not where it should be, according to the models, and actual measurement has confirmed that multiple times.

    The debate has moved on, but please continue to believe whatever the hell you want. Its your cult, not mine.

  18. jules

    Ok why is this study wrong?

  19. BilB

    MK50,

    Would you like to share with us the titles of your “scientific papers”?

  20. Martin B

    There’s no point is there? As Jules notes “You’re wrong but I won’t discuss it” is not the sign of someone who knows what they are talking about.

    Further evidence for that can be adduced as follows:
    Suggestion that climate attribution depends wholly on models shows unfamiliarity with the science.
    Allusions to the ‘tropical hotspot problem’ show inability to understand the science.
    Rhetorical use of the term ‘hypothesis’ shows a lack of knowledge about science in general.
    “The debate has moved on” shows a complete disconnect from climate science (which is doing just fine, thanks) and shows what ‘community of interest’ is being paid attention to.

    Incidentally, the point is not to “believe whatever I want” but to be lead by the best assessment of the evidence. Accordingly I accept (provisionally, with possible revision in light of future evidence) the conventional science.

  21. Paul Norton

    Mk50, if you read my link @2 you’ll find out where the real profits are being sought by governments and corporations investing lots of real money in the confident belief that the poles are melting.

  22. John D

    My take is that once voters and governments reach a climate action tipping the action may be quite swift. (Think at the size and speed of reaction during WWll.)
    - The BZE stationary energy plan talked about converting Aus to 100% renewable power within 10 yrs.
    - If necessary, we could move to zero emission transport by simply replacing fossil transport fuels with renewable, low impact fuels (such as renewable gasoline) produced from water, renewable power and CO2 or nitrogen. These fuels can be produced without diverting land from food production or chopping down rainforest to allow the production of palm oil. (See: http://pragmatusj.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/renewable-low-impact-fuels-game-changer.html)
    -The world economy needs a war on climate change to bring the world economy out of it’s chronic recession.
    - Investors are beginning to realize that fossil fuel dependent industries have become high risk.
    - Voters are getting sick of fossil fuel companies trying to tell them that BAU is all OK.

  23. zoot

    What I do is actually read the current scientific papers.

    No you don’t.
    I assess your source as Anthony Watts or worse, Joanne Codling.

    I changed my mind on AGW in 2002 when the fundamental flaws in the AGW computer models became obvious to blind Freddy, and have seen nothing since to offer any further support to the AGW hypothesis.

    No you didn’t.

    The heat is not where it should be, according to the models, and actual measurement has confirmed that multiple times.

    Evidence for my assertions above. If you had read (and understood) the current scientific papers (as you claim) you could not have come to this conclusion.

  24. BilB

    Another extract from the Conversation article to ponder upon while considering the Budget. This is all restating the obvious,………but it must be done, a determination for real Climate Action will only be carried on the voices.

    “When will we act?

    The land, oceans and biosphere are now in extreme danger, but it doesn’t seem to be driving the global community to the urgent measures required for a meaningful attempt to arrest the current trend. With few exceptions, the accelerating rate of atmospheric CO2 hardly rates a mention on the pages of the global media, preoccupied as it is with short-term economic forecast, daily exchange rates, share market fluctuations and sports results.

    In Australia the language has changed from “the greatest moral issue of our generation” to controversy over a “carbon tax”, diverting the public attention from the climate to a hip-pocket nerve. While we debate the ways to bring about a meaningless 5% reduction in local emissions, we simultaneously develop infrastructure to export hundreds of millions of tons of coal. It all ends up in the same atmosphere.

    As Carl Sagan reminded us, on seeing a photograph of Earth taken from Voyager 1 as it left the Solar System

    That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you know, everyone you love, everyone you’ve ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives … Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity — in all this vastness — there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

  25. David Irving (no relation)

    I wen to this last night., delivered by yet another scientist terrified about our future. It was fascinating.

  26. zorronsky

    It used to be said we are at the end of the Earth. So maybe we are!