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242 responses to “Weekly Election 2013 Thread”

  1. Ambigulous

    Ronson tells us The Economist favours Mr Rudd.

    That should effectively combat the anti-Rudd views of The Yarramulla Gazette and Sporting Globe.

  2. Kevin Rennie

    AM has been at Murray Bridge. One of those attending their forum commented: “You know, we’ve been here since the early 70s & we’ve never seen a politician”. Where is local member Liberal Patrick Secker? Perhaps SA’s Christopher Pyne might take time off from Q&A to visit some schools there? Pity that Tony Eastley didn’t ask who their Federal parliamentary rep has been for the last 15 years. Sloppy!!
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3837375.htm

  3. Terangeree

    Vote Compass on the ABC at the moment is quite fascinating. Worth looking at and “sharing” when it comes up on iView.

  4. Rocky

    Ambi, ‘The Pink Paper with a Punch’. I remember it well from my childhood.

  5. wpd

    Just been the victim of a ‘push-poll’ from an organisation named Millward Brown, re the rort on FBT for cars. The questions were an absolute disgrace.

    Clive Palmer has a point.

  6. Patrickb

    On the cusp of the last week, hands up who thinks it’s all over and we’re looking at Abbott PM?
    I thought that the Syrian distraction played well for Abbott. Most of the electorate think the UN’s a rort and that the ‘Arabs’ should be left to tear themselves apart. Rudd was correct in reminding the putative PM that he needs to think about these things but I reckon the Abbott knows that most of the citizenry aren’t very excited by the prospect of chairing the security council.

  7. Patrickb

    In fact what is extraordinary is that Abbott has said that it “exaggerate[s] our own importance”. And I agree with him, dog help me. Would Howard have said this?

  8. PhilL

    Patrickb @6
    It ‘s all over red rover. It’s save the furniture time now, or at least save the senate! ( and bring on a double dissolution after 12 months of Abbott rule?)

  9. Val

    Julian Burnside is tweeting that people should preference the Greens 1 and then preference against whichever of the major parties holds their electorate, because they are as bad as each other.
    What furniture is being saved again and how much is it worth?

  10. Chris

    Val @ 9 – that would be the senate. Don’t like the prospect of an Abbott government? Imagine what it could have been like if they had a majority in the senate. An Abbott government with an average sort of majority in the lower house is going to act very differently to one that has a Newman sized landslide.

    I’m pretty sure an LNP win is inevitable, but I also don’t think things are going to be nearly as bad as some fear. There’ll be lots to whine about but nothing really radical since he’ll need to get either the Greens, ALP or maybe mr X on side to get stuff through the senate.

  11. Jacques de Molay

    Rudd being called out for lying by Treasury over the Libs costings is pretty much the final nail in the coffin.

  12. Terry

    What I would be taking from the actions of the Secretaries of Treasury and Finance is that they decided that they could publicly embarrass Rudd, Bowen and Wong because they have decided that they will not be working for them in ten days time.

    With every senior Commonwealth Public Service position likely to be under review with a change of government, and with a long-established tradition of Coalition governments purging the upper echelons of the public service in order to put “their” people in, a public decision was made to start working for Abbott, Hockey and Robb.

    Rudd may have been naive in assuming that the bureaucrats still viewed themselves as working for him. In actual fact, I think they factored in the likelihood of having bosses from the Coalition side of politics long ago, and have begun to behave accordingly.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out in some of the more politically “hot” portfolio areas, most notably Environment and Climate Change.

  13. Val

    Chris @ 10
    No it’s not, it’s in the HoR. Burnside is saying Greens and Independents in Senate, Greens 1 and pref against majors in HoR. I’ll send link separately. You could try fact checking yourself before assuming I’m wrong?
    Seems that some people on this thread eg you and Terry, have great difficulty admitting that there are serious problems with K Rudd.
    Terry @ 12
    Seems like you don’t understand the conventions of care taker government. They’re not working for the government at present. This gives them more freedom than usual to do what they are always supposed to do, act impartially without fear or favour.

  14. Val

    Chris @ 10
    To see what was linked to Julian Burnside’s tweet, go here
    http://www.julianburnside.com.au/vote.htm

  15. Val

    Chris @ 10
    Possibly I should also call you out for mansplaining? Seems like a good example ( assuming you are a man of course?)

  16. Val

    Terry @ 12
    I also wouldn’t rule out the possibility that senior bureaucrats have something against K Rudd personally.

  17. GregM

    Possibly I should also call you out for mansplaining? Seems like a good example ( assuming you are a man of course?)

    What? So it’s OK for Chris to reply to your comment and express a different view from yours if Chris is a woman but not if Chris is a man?

    I love your commitment to free speech and the open exchange of opinions.

  18. Graham Bell

    Just now, against my better judgement, I actually watch a bit of DC TV on Channel 7 Sunrise. A clever young economics expert was on telling us that we are only a bunch of whingers and that we have never had it so good – oh, yes, and he told us how everyone had great aspirational opportunities for upward social mobility (but to give him his due, he did not try to fool us into believing this was still the magical ‘Seventies). He used a lot of “averaging” and statistics, of course.

    None of the NEW homeless and none of those hard–working people who will never be able to have anything but a casual or temporary job appeared on the program to give an alternative point of view.

    What is really frightening is that the people who believe this sort of simple propaganda will be voting next Saturday.

  19. Ronson Dalby
  20. Chris

    You could try fact checking yourself before assuming I’m wrong?

    Where did I claim that you were wrong? Or is that just something you’re just assuming because you don’t agree with what I said?

    I was referring to your comment about saving the furniture and my view is that when people were talking about that they were referring to both the HoR and Senate. And my comment addressed the majorities in both chambers. Its unclear how much better the ALP will be better off in the HoR with Rudd vs Gillard, but its very clear that they are much better off in the Senate.

    Besides if people follow Burnside’s advice then that will help the ALP because rather than just vote against the ALP they’ll vote against both the LNP and ALP. And the LNP currently hold more seats than the ALP. If you’re in a safe ALP and LNP seats I think its good advice regardless. The major parties then to take the views of those in marginal seats much more seriously than those in safe seats.

    Burnside’s general advice comes down to give whoever gets government a smaller margin – something I agree with and I think many people having been doing for a while now.

  21. Luxxe

    Terry@12, that’s a pretty shocking insult to senior public servants. As if they would have taken the decision to make this statement lightly. It pretty much has no precedent because I guess Rudd’s behaviour has no precedent.

  22. Linda

    Chris @ 10

    I read your response to Val @ 9 “Val @ 9 – that would be the senate.”

    As a presumption of a higher knowledge claim as your starting point from which to proceed with discussion.

    This is an example of the attitude that the term “mansplaination” was developed to address.

  23. Chris

    Linda @ 22 – I’ll admit it was a bit snarky but so was the phrasing of original question. I didn’t claim any higher knowledge and I’d actually say so if I thought I had any.

  24. don coyote

    I wonder how the term “womad” was developed then?

  25. jules

    World Of Music Arts and Dance?

  26. Helen

    I was bemused by the actions of the senior Treasury bureaucrats this week, after Hockey had insulted them so egregiously (criticising them for being politically motivated, as if that hadn’t been his former boss Howard’s doing.) Then they come out with all guns blazing against Rudd. I can’t help but think they are thinking it’s all over for Labor so they have to protect their own arses by being seen to be helpful to the other side. I was brought up as a young ‘un to believe the Public Service should try to be as apolitical as possible. Sure looks ugly.

  27. Casey

    You never know what their relationship with Rudd was like, Helen. Why I wouldn’t be surprised ….

  28. Casey

    Asked whether he supported the statements by Mr King, who drew a link between the burqa and criminality at a fund-raiser, Mr Abbott admitted he found it “a very confronting attire”.
    “Frankly, it’s not the sort of attire that I would like to see widespread in our streets,” Mr Abbott told reporters on Saturday, while campaigning in Queensland.

    WOW.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/burqa-confronting-says-tony-abbott-as-he-defends-candidate-ray-king-20130831-2sx8l.html#ixzz2dWau1JoA

  29. Jacques de Molay

    Casey, I wouldn’t think too many people would want to defend shit like burqas and all they represent.

  30. Val

    Hi Chris and GregM
    This is in danger of turning into a lengthy stoush I guess, so I’ll just make one more post and leave it.
    Key points:
    Val @ 9 “Julian Burnside is tweeting that people should … preference against whichever of the major parties HOLDS THEIR ELECTORATE … “[emphasis added, apologies for caps, but this clearly does not refer to the senate]
    Chris @ 10 “Val @ 9 – that would be the senate. …”
    Val @ 13 “Chris @ 10 No it’s not, it’s the HoR. …”
    Val @ 14 [ sends link to what Burnside said]

    At that point it would have been possible for Chris to acknowledge his mistake, possibly even apologise, and go on with the conversation. The fact that he didn’t tends to confirm the mansplaining theory.

    Chris @ 20 – on a distant galaxy far from here, preferencing against both major parties might possibly be a strategy to increase the ALP vote. But that is clearly not why Burnside is advocating it. Nor is he advocating it to give whoever wins goverment a smaller majority, as you also say. As he himself says, he is advocating it as a “protest vote” against both major parties because they are taking an immoral position on asylum seekers.

  31. Casey

    Well, Jaques I happen to think women have the right to wear whatever they want and that includes burqas. Or next we will be having laws banning them like in France and radicalising the act of wearing a piece of clothing. I mean way to go in denying people some basic freedoms!

  32. Ronson Dalby

    Casey @ 25

    What kind of dimwit Liberal ex-police officer candidate would have Roger Rogerson at your side?

    And there’s something wrong with having current NSW assistant police commissioner Frank Minnelli also attending a Liberal political function.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/libs-plan-to-microchip-suspects-by-sniper-rifle-20130830-2sw8k.html

    I won’t even mention the microchip gun idea.

  33. Mindy

    Why do people come on a left of centre blog just to express surprise that people here hold left of centre views?

    I don’t wear a burqa, niqaab or any form of head covering. But neither do I give two fucks if someone chooses to. I will, however, defend their right to do so.

  34. Val

    Chris @ 20
    Oops now I have to apologise – I just re-read this post and got what you meant ie “that would be the senate” relates to my question about what furniture is being saved. But as Linda said, that’s not how it reads, so you could have acknowledged the mistake anyway.

    Anyway, responding to what you actually said, by alluding to what’s the furniture worth, I was asking about the moral outcomes of what the ALP and Rudd have done, in line with Burnside’s statement. (I get the impression that you didn’t read the statement?) As I said above, he was advocating preferencing against both majors on moral grounds.

    I think Rudd apologists should respond to this question honestly.

  35. Jacques de Molay

    Casey @ 31,

    Okay, I agree women have the right to wear burqas doesn’t mean they’re not offensive to some people who see them as instruments of very right-wing men designed to oppress women under the guise of religion.

  36. GregM

    Val@30 Thanks for your explanation. The problem I have with it is that in your post @15 you accused chris of mansplaining on the basis of his/her single post @10 not on what he/she said @20, where your accusation would have been, in my opinion, well founded, assuming of course that Chris is adorned by the requisite genitalia.

    I would say however that no one should assume anything about what Julian Burnside says without verifying it. He has a subtle mind and his opinions will bear their own logic and purpose and not what others would want or suppose him to say.

  37. GregM

    I don’t wear a burqa, niqaab or any form of head covering. But neither do I give two fucks if someone chooses to. I will, however, defend their right to do so.

    Mindy hasn’t the Anti-Cancer Council message of slip-slop-slap got through to you? You should wear a broad-brimmed hat when you go out into the sun.

    Also I hope your defence of wearing the niqab doesn’t extend to doing so in banks, where there is a legitimate security concern (unless Mr King’s novel idea of implanting microchips in criminals with high-powered rifles catches on).

  38. Casey

    doesn’t mean they’re not offensive to some people who see them as instruments of very right-wing men designed to oppress women under the guise of religion.

    Here’s what I worry about Jacques. Right wing men who use burqas as instruments to win elections, dog whistling and using the race card while causing distress to women who choose to wear burqas for whatever reason.

    I mean, just leave women alone Tony Abbott.

    There has been much scholarship coming from Muslim feminist scholars on the wearing of the burqa. It has been discussed on this blog in detail a number of times so there’s no point going into it again after so many discussions here. I don’t think it is as as simple as right wing men oppressing women for every burqa wearer, though.

  39. Casey

    I won’t even mention the microchip gun idea.

    Neither will he, apparently.

    What was Roger Rogerson doing there? Far out, no one in the media asks do they? They just lead with Burqa Alert.

  40. Geistiger

    All of you are infused with stress and irritation – relaaaaaax.

  41. Ronson Dalby

    “Far out, no one in the media asks do they? ”

    It’s all this small stuff that doesn’t really get a run that bugs me because it shows the true essence of a political party no matter what the brand. We know the party stances on refugees and PPL and so on but I want to know about the true reason behind things like the $200 marriage guidance voucher that will be given to all couples when they register for marriage. Or why the LP chose a Christian fundamentalist school to launch its education policy.

  42. Helen

    Jaques de Molay, we have HAD this conversation on LP. Exhaustively.

    Not wanting to criminalise women who wear burqas is NOT the same as liking, supporting, or recommending burqas.

    Do we have to go through this all again? It’s a zombie stoush, so I’d recommend the Overthrow thread for anyone who would like to chitter angrily to themselves about it.

  43. Jacques de Molay

    Helen,

    Sorry for talking about something we’ve already talked about before.

    I never said anything about wanting to criminalise women who wear burqas? I’m not interested in banning things just not sure how something so odious can be defended.

  44. Mindy

    JdM how you see that item of clothing is not the problem of the women who wear it. It is yours. If you choose not to listen to the women themselves on the myriad reasons why they might choose to wear it then so be it, but don’t expect to be taken seriously.

  45. Jacques de Molay

    Mindy, there is a reason your snarky and somewhat offensive comment @ 33 was ignored.

  46. Mindy

    Sorry JdM you’ve mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck.

  47. Val

    GregM @ 36
    Thanks for your comment but it’s left me a little confused. I posted a link to a statement by Julian Burnside, in which he explained precisely what he was advocating and why.
    Are you suggesting I haven’t read it? Or that I should try to personally confirm it with Julian Burnside even though he has put out a public statement of explanation? Or are you agreeing with me that Chris shouldn’t have offered mistaken and misguided explanations (pretty clearly without reading the statement I would say).
    And excuse me but did you read it yourself? – because, not wishing to be rude, that isn’t clear to me either.

  48. mindy

    Why of course you should have asked Julian Burnside personally Val! Us with feeble lady brains can’t be trusted to think about these things for ourselves.

  49. Val

    Mindy @ 48
    Yeah without trying to fan the flames too much, it did sound a bit like I should ring Julian Burnside up and say “Mr Burnside I know you have taken the trouble to put out a public statement, which I have read, but could you please spend some of your valuable time explaining it to me again even though I have high level comprehension skills and am doing my doctorate, because some man who doesn’t know me and appears not to have read your statement seems to think I may not have understood it”.
    Course that may be completely not what GregM is saying but it did sound a bit like that.

  50. mindy

    It did :)

  51. GregM

    Val the second of your explanations; that Chris hadn’t read it. Which I thought was pretty stupid if he/she wanted to make a comment, because, at least for me, I would always want to read what Julian Burnside said before I referred to it. Enough to give Chris a smack for stupidity or carelessness but not a broadside on mansplaination. Women have been known to have the same failing as Chris showed.

    And no I haven’t read what Julian Burnside said. I relied upon what you said he’d said as being correct. There is no reason I should not have done so.

  52. mindy

    God forbid anyone get annoyed when their comments don’t get read properly. Where would we be?

  53. GregM

    Mindy I am not annoyed that my comment didn’t get read properly. I expect that that might happen from time to time, as any sensible person would.

  54. Val

    GregM @ 53
    Fair enough. But Chris explaining wrongly what Julian Burnside said – I reckon it qualifies as mansplaining.
    I had an experience recently where I was talking to a youngish man about electricity prices, and he seriously spent several minutes explaining to me why I was wrong before realising that he was saying the same thing as me using slightly different terminology. Actually that only happened after I’d got a bit annoyed and snapped at him.
    I know women do this too, but the reason it’s called mansplaining is because men do it more – because as I always say, you can’t undo thousands of years of patriarchy in one generation. Cheers.

  55. GregM

    That’s fine Val.

    In my line of work I get quite a bit of womansplaining about things it is assumed that I as a man would know nothing about or have inferior knowledge. I take it in my stride and don’t let it annoy me.

  56. Chris

    Apologies in advance for the very long comment, but under the circumstances I think it’s better to be more verbose than misunderstood.

    Val @ various comments above – well reading back now I think it’s been pretty much just a misunderstanding. To recap when you said:

    Julian Burnside is tweeting that people should preference the Greens 1 and then preference against whichever of the major parties holds their electorate, because they are as bad as each other.
    What furniture is being saved again and how much is it worth?

    and I replied:

    Val @ 9 – that would be the senate ….

    I think from what you said later that you thought I was refering to your statement

    Julian Burnside is tweeting that people should preference the Greens 1 and then preference against whichever of the major parties holds their electorate, because they are as bad as each other.

    and not the question you actually posed:

    What furniture is being saved again and how much is it worth?

    Now I do often quote what people said when replying to avoid confusion, but given the proximity of your comment (just before) and the fact you only asked one question I thought it was obvious what I was replying to. But now that I understand what you have explained I was wrong about if being obvious – and for that I apologise and will be more careful about being explicit in the future.

    If I had wanted to assert that you were wrong on a fact (rather than opinion) I would have linked to some proof of that, or at least stated that I couldn’t find a third party source. It’s generally what I’ve done in the past when disagreeing with someone over a fact.

    When I replied @20 I still had no idea that you thought I was asserting that you were wrong on what Burnside said and quite mystified by why saying that I thought the furniture was the control of the senate that I was somehow assuming you were wrong. After all, all I had done was answer a question that you had asked – one which you hadn’t proposed an answer for, so how could I possible be contradicting you?

    Now at @30 you said:

    Key points:
    Val @ 9 “Julian Burnside is tweeting that people should … preference against whichever of the major parties HOLDS THEIR ELECTORATE … “[emphasis added, apologies for caps, but this clearly does not refer to the senate]
    Chris @ 10 “Val @ 9 – that would be the senate. …”
    Val @ 13 “Chris @ 10 No it’s not, it’s the HoR. …”
    Val @ 14 [ sends link to what Burnside said]

    At that point it would have been possible for Chris to acknowledge his mistake, possibly even apologise, and go on with the conversation. The fact that he didn’t tends to confirm the mansplaining theory.

    And @15 was the accusation of mansplaining. Well in my defence there was

    a) only 5 minutes between 8:25am your reply and possibly being able to apologise if I had actually responded to the portion of the comment you thought I had (which I wasn’t) before you suggested I was mansplaining.

    b) I was asleep at the time. I had responded to your comment at 1:30am as I was up late working so was still asleep at 8:30am. And some days I read the comments on this blog a lot, others I might read it once a day or even less.

    Mindy I am not annoyed that my comment didn’t get read properly. I expect that that might happen from time to time, as any sensible person would.

    Well I do confess that I do on occassion misread people’s comments/emails/whatever and it happens to me as well. Such is life when people are busy and rush and there are long delays between communication. Frustating? Yes. Do I get snarky at times? Yes. I do try to avoid flamefests though :-)

    Anyway getting back to one of your later questions:

    Anyway, responding to what you actually said, by alluding to what’s the furniture worth, I was asking about the moral outcomes of what the ALP and Rudd have done, in line with Burnside’s statement. (I get the impression that you didn’t read the statement?) As I said above, he was advocating preferencing against both majors on moral grounds.

    I think Rudd apologists should respond to this question honestly.

    I don’t know if I qualify as a Rudd apologist or not, but assuming I do and the moral grounds question is referring to asylum seeker policy I think that ALP boat sailed a while ago. I didn’t like Gillard’s Malaysian solution and I don’t like Rudd’s either. Is Rudd’s worse? Well comparing them I think under Rudd’s solution we’d send them to PNG for processing and permanent settlement never to arrive in Australia except through the standard migration program. Under Gillard’s proposal from which we were luckily saved by the High Court (I think) we’d send them back to Malaysia likely never to come to Australia because of the non existant queue or the one that takes literally decades to get through. Morally I don’t think there’s much difference between them at all.

    I’m hugely disappointed by Rudd’s approach on the issue and that the few MPs in the ALP who had been publicly opposing it have pretty much given up, but I think the ALP has been in this dubious moral position for quite a while.

    btw I did read Burnside’s statement but my comment is probably too long already to expand further on that topic.

  57. mindy

    Unbelievably Abbott has indeed gone one step further. Just when you thought (or I did) that they had run out of steps. Thank goodness we are just a week away from the election, we shouldn’t get to torpedoing the boats between now and then.

  58. Linda

    GregM@55 “In my line of work I get quite a bit of womansplaining about things it is assumed that I as a man would know nothing about or have inferior knowledge. I take it in my stride and don’t let it annoy me.”

    Well I’m sure that’s very easy to do given that you don’t live in a world where women have full institutional power over you, and all the attendant exploitation and oppression that goes with it. But I’m sure you wouldn’t want to rub your privilege in our faces or anything.

  59. GregM

    Well I’m sure that’s very easy to do given that you don’t live in a world where women have full institutional power over you, and all the attendant exploitation and oppression that goes with it.

    And what do you know of my situation?

    That is a profoundly ignorant and prejudiced comment. I don’t live in a world where either men or women have full institutional power over me. And nor do you.

    We both live in a world where power is sufficiently diffused that it can be exercised, and often capriciously, by either men or women.

    Not that I am in any way having a go at you as a commenter. (you can do that but I cannot).

  60. Brian

    Rudd announced that he would appoint a minister for cities if re-elected.

    Mr Rudd said an outer suburban growth taskforce would be charged with delivering a 10-year job and growth strategy, and pledged $21 million to support small business and job growth in out­lying areas.

    The number of people living in outer suburbs is set to double in the next 25 years.

    More at The Age and The Fifth Estate.

  61. Patrickb

    @54
    ” mansplaining is because men do it more ” and not just to female interlocutors. Which is why I find the the term somewhat tedious. Having people state the bleeding obvious or respond to your explanation with the same explanation just using different words is not a gender based phenomenon. I find saying “Yes (x) that’s just what I said” usually disarms them as everyone else in the room is on to it.

  62. mindy

    Patrickb I find that usually brings another round of explaining why that wasn’t what I said and the whole thing goes meta.

  63. Linda

    GregM@59 “and what do you know of my situation?”

    Oh seriously. If you are incapable of recognizing that we both exist on a planet dominated by men then I can’t have a conversation with you. Privilege sure is blinding. But feel free to have a go Greg, you don’t normally hold back.

  64. Ronson Dalby

    Glad to see the Telegraph is still still on the fence in the election with its front pages:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTAJEP0CUAAMkoP.jpg:large

  65. GregM

    Linda, no one has a conversation with you. You don’t do conversation. You do monologue. And look to your own privilege before you raise that of others.

    So no thanks.[personal comment redacted ~ Mod]

  66. Casey

    I know Ronson, it’s impressive. The restraint is quite remarkable.

  67. Ronson Dalby

    And when you see them altogether, the restraint just stands out:

    http://i.imgur.com/MyU1MDV.jpg

  68. faustusnotes

    “Dead Kevin bounce” is pretty funny though.

  69. GregM

    I’m watching the ALP election launch.

    Anthony Albanese is talking.There seems to be little spark in the audience he is addressing

    It all feels so sad as it appears that the horse has bolted and that the coalition will win at a canter.

    I wonder if things would have been different if the election launch was held a fortnight ago. Perhaps it would have energised the campaign and it would have have taken a different trajectory.

  70. Russell

    “it all feels so sad …”

    It’s neither happy or sad, it’s karma working itself out …..

  71. Charlie

    Having just seen conclusion of what must be the flattest ALP launch in recent memory, you can’t help but think of the 57 caucus dickheads that voted for Rudd’s return. Name and shame, I say!

  72. Doug

    ACT senate race has been great fun – statistically it is only an outside chance that the Liberal vote will drop far enough to let the Greens in for the second seat. (about a one in ten chance I reckon)

    However with 14 parties running there may be some splintering of the major party vote and there certainly has been a proliferation of signs along the main roads to an extent never before seen.

    Greens claim to have 1600 volunteers and are certainly getting into to door knocking on a scale that I have not seen before.

  73. amortiser

    In the ACT, the Greens got belted at the last Assembly elections. They may be very enthusiastic about their cause but nothing has changed since that result that would indicate that they will not suffer a serious loss of support in this election.

  74. Chris

    amortiser @ 73 – 12,000 job cuts in a population of around 300,000 people is a pretty big threat to many in the ACT. Lots would remember what happened to Canberra when Howard came to power. Also Abbott has brought up the decentralisation to regions thing again which would presumably mean more jobs moving away from Canberra.

  75. Linda

    [Moderator note: time to be more careful about keeping the stoush on the Overflow thread. ~tt]

  76. GregM

    [Moderator note: time to be more careful about keeping the stoush on the Overflow thread. Also further comments sniping at moderator decisions will be deleted with extreme prejudice. ~tt]

  77. Liz

    Well, here’s a bit of interesting news. Latest Newspoll has tightened. 49/51 to LNP.

  78. Liz

    Oops. Please ignore the above. It’s from a hoax twitter account, apparently.

  79. mindy

    Bastards. Oh well stranger things have happened.

  80. mindy

    @Chris – the latest reported was an unnamed department of 600 people, or part thereof moving to Gosford. I have worked in Gosford and while it is a nice enough place to work I wouldn’t want to move there for a job that might not be there at all in a few weeks. Plus the expense of paying people to move house, paying their accommodation while they find somewhere to live etc is just silly expenditure.

  81. Richard

    Being incompetent isn’t enough reason to get rid of a leader; the Soviets tolerated Karmal in Afghanistan for six years, and Karmal wasn’t qualified to be a dog-catcher.

  82. Chris

    mindy @ 80 – well that may be just one of the ways they get people to quit without using forced redundancies.

    The whole idea of reducing public service numbers by attrition is also pretty silly I think. There’s no way that people leaving naturally will be even over departments or even within groups within departments. And many of the public servants aren’t just generic cogs you can move around. So the result will be that some areas will be seriously under resourced and yet unable to hire replacements.

    Even voluntary redundancies are I think a bad idea because the people who take them are generally those who are going to retire soon anyway (so you’ve gained nothing) or those who are confident of getting a job elsewhere and don’t want to stick around for the upcoming pain (eg. you lose the better employees).

  83. Val

    On another election topic, if I may do a bit of ( sort of) self promotion, I will be supporting the Croaky citizen journalist project @WePublicHealth http://bit.ly/15vk3pd this week.
    We are trying to get climate and health on the political agenda in the last week of the campaign. Fiona Armstrong of Climate and Health Alliance will be doing most of the tweeting and I will be supporting her with research etc.
    Support and ideas are very welcome, especially info on new or different evidence and ideas in the climate and health area. You can contact me on Twitter @Valakay or at Monash on [email protected] or my blog at fairgreenplanet.blogspot.com
    Will also post this comment at Brian’s latest climate related post.

  84. drsusancalvin

    Just visited an early voting station on Phillip Island. Liberals all organised, signage, how to vote cards, and a “motivated” scrum. No sign of the others. Not sure how this absence of voting information for the other parties will play out or whether it will be addressed but given the rise of early voting it behooves parties to staff booths from the get go.

  85. mindy

    Visited Twitter, apparently Rudd is on QandA tonight. The comments weren’t pretty and this is from people of the Left persuasion. Maybe it is just that people are over the election stuff an just want it to be over. Or maybe Saturday will be very ugly indeed.

    I need to choose a good movie or two to distract me.

  86. Flann O'Brien
  87. jules

    Flann @ 86 – so there you have it. Climate change is crap.

  88. Paul Norton

    Neilsen Poll on Queensland voting intention shows a combined vote of 58% (at least) for right-of-centre parties, which translates into 4 Senators. My back-of-the-envelope calculation is that they will be 3 LNP Senators plus Glenn Lazarus of the Palmer United Party, getting up ahead of the Greens on preferences from other right-of-centre parties. Whilst the silver lining is that Lazarus may well prove to be his own man with his own idiosyncrasies once in the Senate, I’d prefer that we got the Greens vote up by another 2-3% to give Adam Stone a chance.

  89. Paul Norton

    Glenn Lazarus states here that he is an admirer of Joh Bjelke-Petersen, who he regards as having been a “very honest person”. Jesus wept!

  90. Casey

    Funny, it’s when Kev sticks to the great moral challenges, that he is at his most inspiring:

  91. Ronson Dalby

    Mindy @ 85,

    I’m just reading the #QandA hashtag tweets and they seem overall positive to me. What a pity the programme has such a limited audience.

  92. Liz

    I thought Rudd fired up and did well on qanda. I just wish he’d stop saying ‘folks’. Normal people don’t say that. Or am I missing something and it’s supposed to be a cute Queenslandism?

  93. Ronson Dalby

    Actually I say it a lot on the ‘Net, Liz, and now you’ve made me self-conscience of it. :)

  94. alfred venison

    Fran Barlow says it. i used to, i stopped. -a.v.

  95. Katz

    I use it ironically.

    Ironically.

  96. alfred venison

    i picked it up decades ago from thomas pynchon’s character tyrone slothrop in “gravity’s rainbow”. i dropped it when i heard rudd using it in ’07. -a.v.

  97. Katz

    I am confident that irony is more durable than Rudd.

    Though, at times, I admit, my confidence has been tested.

  98. Paul Norton

    If the Coalition wins the election, then, as an enthusiastic cyclist, and in keeping with the logic of his “direct action” climate policy, Mr. Rabbit should introduce a system of cash payments to people like me who commute by bicycle. $10 per kilometre would be a nice start.

  99. Katz

    Philip Roth’s imagined American fascist movement was called Just Folks.

    Roth pinned the coercive, passive-aggressive fölkischness of the term.

  100. Brian

    I watched Q&A and it was the best performance I’ve ever seen from Rudd by a fair margin. He came across as someone with genuine Labor values who takes on board problems he encounters in the community and tries to find the best answers in the circumstances and within the resources available.

    The tougher things got the better he came across. Put Tony Jones in his place, who as usual was trying to be an arse.

    I was surprised because I didn’t think Rudd had it in him. Eventually some of the tweets coming through were showing similar surprise and appreciation.

    Any way it’s here.

    BTW he repeated what he said earlier in the day about single parents being put on Newstart. He said he was uncomfortable with it at the time, is still uncomfortable with it and would like to do something to help matters if re-elected. I think he should have done that ahead and instead of bringing on carbon trading.

  101. Liz

    Brian, I was very happy to see Rudd put Jones in his place. Rudd did well because he talked about good Labor principles, answered the tough questions well and didn’t waffle very much. And that’s high praise from me.

  102. Liz

    I remember that now, Katz. The word is suggestive of close minded, small town, preachiness to me. It’s kitsch and patronising.

  103. Ronson Dalby

    The industry needs more regulation not a deregulate free-for-all:

    “Coalition to promise less regulation for aged care”

    http://www.afr.com/p/australia2-0/coalition_to_promise_less_regulation_XLo7qpsv6wQJ1X59tFQvPO

  104. Chris

    , Mr. Rabbit should introduce a system of cash payments to people like me who commute by bicycle. $10 per kilometre would be a nice start.

    Sure if you promise to do it while holding your breath and emit no CO2 :-)

  105. Su

    In Australia, “folks” is used a lot by followers of the US-inspired evangelical churches, a relative of mine, a former missionary in one of those outfits, uses it in both speech and in the annual, mass circulation family “newsletter”. *shudder*. Small town preachiness is exactly right, Liz.

  106. Ronson Dalby

    I guess some of you would prefer ‘comrades’? :)

  107. Helen

    “Folks” seems innocuous when people use it as slang for “close family”. Once you apply it to strangers, that’s when the patronising-ness kicks in IMO.
    I haven’t been paying attention to politics for the last 12 hours and I have to say it’s been wonderful. Can anyone tell me whether the Liberals have released their policy costings yet? Or are they still waiting for the blackout?

  108. Moz of Yarramulla

    Paul@98: could get pricey though. I ride 200km a week to and from work. I’m not saying I’d turn the money down, just that 100k/year for riding to work is even more generous than the ppl scam. Just making it tax deductible at the same rort as cars would be nice enough.

  109. Ronson Dalby

    No costings yet for the Liberals, Helen.

  110. Val

    I tend to say “folks” when talking to family or friends, fairly consciously as an alternative to “guys” which my daughters and their partners/friends tend to use and I can’t stand. People (or ppl or pippul or whatever) is ok in writing but doesn’t always seem to work in speech

  111. Chris

    Moz @ 108 – I think you can lease and then get an FBT discount for your bike like you’d do for you car. Leasing overheads probably make it not worthwhile unless its a really expensive bike though. And fuel wouldn’t be tax deductible :-)

  112. alfred venison

    like comrade Dalby says, at 106. -comrade venison, a.

  113. paul burns

    I once knew a very ancient union official who always used to refer to us as ‘her people.’ I thought it was wonderful and I felt really safe in the workplace knowing she was just a phone call away.

  114. Moz of Yarramulla

    Chris@111: the Admin cost makes it silly even for a pricey bike. Which I have, but even an $8k bike is only $1000/year in lost tax to split three ways. A fixed 20c/km would be worth while mostly because it would be between me and the tax dept, not me, my accountant and the leasing company. I’ve once bought a computer that way coz the employer was set up for it, but oddly that was also the year the tax dept revised my tax return. Sheer coincidence I’m sure.

  115. Chris

    Moz @ 114 – well you need to buy a more expensive bike then :-)

    I think the best solution is just to remove the FBT tax break on non work related travel. Pretty much what Rudd proposed, but looks like unfortunately we won’t get since we’ll have an Abbott government.

    I agree about not leasing computers. I just buy them outright and then tax deduct them over a few years. Unless you really don’t have the cash the leasing costs are just too much.

  116. Ronson Dalby
  117. Helen

    Paul B
    Were you a river to her?

  118. Helen

    Oh, I got that the wrong way around… Was she a river to you, I mean.

  119. Charlie

    Any deckchairs left on the ‘SS ALP’, or have they all gone overboard.

    Is it time for a thread “First 100 days of Abbott – what will happen”, or
    “What went wrong for Labor and when did it start”

  120. paul burns

    Helen,
    Lawrence of Arabia is one of my favourite people.

  121. Tim Macknay

    Is it time for a thread “First 100 days of Abbott – what will happen”, or
    “What went wrong for Labor and when did it start”

    The first one would be a good topic for 8 September (assuming the bloggers want to keep LP going after the election).

    The second one has “zombie stoush” written all over it.

  122. Graham Bell

    Folks:
    This is truly amazing. The term “Folks” is a polite short form of address used where “Ladies and Gentlemen” would sound a bit too pompous; where “Hey, all youse blokes and sheilas there” would sound too impolite and too informal. It is not peculiarly Queenslandish. My experience is that it is more often used when addressing those outside one’s immediate family. It is NOT patronizing at all!!!; there is a world of difference between being polite and being patronizing. If the term “Folks” is used as a marketing ploy by a bunch of off-shore devil-dodgers then how on earth can those who use it as a polite form of address be held to blame, for heaven’s sake? I shall continue using “Folks” as an ordinary polite form of address, nothing more, nothing less.

  123. faustusnotes

    A friend of mine put this charming Vice hit piece about Abbott on facebook and I had to share. This is choice:

    Admittedly, ‘Gender Discoursegate’ doesn’t make for a particularly snappy headline, but what can you expect from the chorus line of sub-literate hype addicts furiously Dutch-ruddering over an alpha-bigot asking a narcissistic, has-been pussy if ‘he ever shuts up’?

    The final paragraph is quite entertaining too.

  124. Val

    Christine Milne talking to Leigh Sales at 7.30. I sort of feel that I could almost watch that (unlike anything else in this election)

  125. jules

    Cheers fn.

    Abbott is already talking about a double dissolution election should anyone resist his manly attack on the perfidious carbon tax. He’s calling it “political suicide twice” for Labor.

    Supposing Abbott does win (and I’m not really convinced he will yet, tho it does seem possible) and tries to repeal the carbon tax only to have the senate reject his attempts.

    That will effectively make the DD election an actual referendum on climate change.

    Its been rather hot lately, and this coming summer may be hotter. We may have some bad bushfires, heatwaves with associated deaths and who knows what else.

    An actual referendum on climate change, especially if Rudd is gone from the ALP, may be a surprise for some people.

  126. Chris

    jules @ 125 – I hope the ALP take a hard line after the election even if they lose in a landslide. A DD will be very risky for Abbott, especially if as some are predicting his budget is dodgy and he’ll want to cut quite harshly soon after getting in.

    In other news the possibility of Xenophon getting 2 senate seats (at the expense of SHY) was brought up again this morning on the local ABC radio. Apparently both ALP and Liberal insiders have been leaking that this is a possibility. WIll be very interesting on Saturday night to see how it turns out.

  127. jules

    I think you’re right about the risk a DD poses to Abbott, i reckon thats why he is going so hard on the “mandate” thing now.

    As for Xenophon – would he trade action on climate change for the legislation Wilkie wanted Gillard’s govt to pass?

  128. jules

    the anti pokie legislation.

  129. Charlie

    The Senate could end up a mess…Hanson in NSW, Lazurus in Qld, who knows elsewhere?? All the bitsy ratbag parties are cross preferencing etc. The AEC is putting magnifying sheets into the booths in Victoria to help people read the 97 candidates on the metre long paper. May take ages to sort out.

  130. Jacques de Molay

    Unfortunately you know it’s all over when in the final week Rudd is campaigning in Tas in Labor held seats with decent margins and Abbott was campaigning in SA’s Hindmarsh (Labor seat) today.

    In saying all that Rudd was very good on Q&A last night looked like the Rudd of ’07 for the first time this campaign.

  131. Graham Bell

    Jules @ 128:
    Anti-pokies legislation? Lovely thought but dream on. The only way that evil will be exterminated is by fairly slow social pressure – away from politicians, public servants and others whose opinions and actions are easily swayed. Like tobacco addiction, it won’t disappear overnight. There is just far too much money tied up in keeping the pokies going, regardless of all the terrible personal and economic costs (actually, getting into another “brushfire ” war would be far cheaper and far less damaging to Australia than retaining the pokies).

    Folks – everyone – minasan – gewei – jedermann:
    A Double Dissolution would be far more pleasant than the alternative: a “Wattle Revolution”. I’m allergic to tear gas; rubber bullets hurt; bouncing off the wall during interrogation would upset me; neither Gourmet Chef nor Iron Chef would be cooking in the Gibson Desert Re-education Facility. No, let’s go for a DD instead.

  132. Ronson Dalby

    “A COALITION government will impose a blackout on asylum-seeker boat arrivals or turn-arounds unless defence chiefs give their approvals shadow immigration minister Scott Morrison said today. ”

    http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/coalition-to-impose-blackout-on-asylum-boats/story-fnho52ip-1226709828599#ixzz2dohViEgS

    They’re confident enough to tell us about this censorship before an election? Imagine what’s coming in the years ahead.

  133. Katz

    Thanks RD. That’s outrageous.

    With Tampa, Howard militarized immigration policy.

    Then Howard militarized the history curriculum.

    Then Howard militarized Aboriginal policy.

    Now Morrison is militarizing the media.

    This is creeping martial law.

  134. Chris

    IIRC the Howard government did not regularly publicise boat arrivals either. The media had to find it out for themselves. It was the Rudd government that started the policy of announcing all boat arrivals.

  135. faustusnotes

    Check out this bullshit from the lead article in the SMH this morning:

    Privately some Labor MPs concede the best thing for the party, given the scale of the repudiation coming, would be for Mr Rudd to lose his Brisbane seat of Griffith as happened to John Howard in 2007. Mr Howard’s initial shock, and that of his party, quickly gave way to a sense of relief in Liberal ranks that the hard work of generational change had been largely done by voters.

    The “hard work of generational change”? Australia is about to vote in Abbott, Hockey and Bishop – frontbenchers under Howard. Ridiculous. Why are journalists so incredibly stupid?

  136. Chris

    fn @ 135 – I’d be surprised if Rudd didn’t resign a few months after losing the election anyway (unless numbers are really tight)

  137. Helen

    This “All Purpose Victory speech” by Don Watson is absolutely brilliant. Well, he’s a professional speechwriter, after all.

    http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2013/september/1377957600/don-watson/all-purpose-election-victory-speech

  138. Graham Bell

    fn @ 135:
    But it is generational change …. Howard’s Young Fogies will soon be running the show. Look out Twentieth Century, here we come again.

    Nothing new in old political figures, near the end of their careers, mobilizing mobs of naive, inexperienced young supporters to run with their agenda and to stop reforms and progress. This is what happened when Mao Zedong proclaimed “Bombard the HeadQuarters!” and launched his Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. I don’t expect to see HYFs holding high banners proclaiming their devotion to Menziesism-Holtism-John Howard Thought but I do expect to see HYFs having a ton of fun destroying much of Australian traditional values in their own version of a Destroy-Four-Olds campaign.

  139. jungney

    Helen @ 137. Thanks for that! It made me smile, against the grain, to say the least!

  140. Helen Davidson

    @ 84 drsusancalvin

    …but given the rise of early voting it behooves parties to staff booths from the get go

    Just voted early at Darwin CBD (I’m enrolled in Lingiari).

    Signage and how-to-vote material available from CLP(LNP), ALP, Greens, Palmer United and Rise Up Australia, however only CLP and ALP tables were (wo)manned.

    CLP volunteers much more assertive, approaching people, enquiring if they are there to vote and directing them as to where to find the voting room. Then offering how-to-vote material as if it was a secondary consideration. Smart marketing approach and obvioulsy well briefed on how to behave.

    ALP volunteers seemed to be standing at their table waiting for people to approach them. Disappointing.

  141. Ronson Dalby

    “Just voted early at Darwin CBD”

    Heard on the wireless at 12 that pre-poll voting is double the number it was at this time in 2010.

    Let’s hope it’s because people are anxious to vote the government back in and not the other way around.

  142. Tim Macknay

    Graham Bell @138 – your comment reminded me of this.

    Oh, the irony.

  143. Graham Bell

    Tim Mackney @ 142:
    That would be right. Howard Young Fogies’ visual montage with an unrelated soundtrack about the Peoples Liberation Army of China.

    That will be like the policies we will have to endure when the Abbott seatwarmer Cabinet is replaced by politically-reliable HYFs. “Better to be Right than Expert”. b.t.w. see if you can get hold of the German film “Napola”; it may give you some insights into HYF thinking; we’re in for a fun time.

  144. FDB

    Thanks for that Helen.

    Don Watson is our finest Don. Followed in descending order by Walker, Dunstan, Chipp and Bradman.

    Batting very very well doesn’t quite make up for the deficiencies of character.

  145. Jacques de Molay

    If you’re in Adelaide and want to meet Kevin Rudd pop into St Laurence’s nursing home (Anglicare) at Grange at 4pm today.

  146. Jacques de Molay

    Be very afraid:

    In an unobtrusive black two-storey office on Fullarton Road with windows tinted so dark no light gets through, Family First candidate Bob Day – along with good friend Cory Bernardi – is running South Australia’s conservative movement.

    “This is the conservative hub of Adelaide,” Day says with trademark chipperness, as he tours InDaily through the building’s conservative library, which occupies a fair chunk of the lower level.

    Sample titles: Free to Choose (Milton Friedman); The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce; Taxing Air: Facts and Fallacies about Climate Change; Little Green Lies: An Expose.

    The library has a lectern and several rows of neatly-spaced chairs. Conservative authors often do book signings in here, many of which are MC’d by Bernardi – who also has his own mini-television studio out the back, where he records Cory Bernardi TV.

    A sign on the wall lists Family First’s eight cohabitants in the centre, including The Samuel Griffith Society (dedicated to upholding the constitution); The Conservative Leadership Foundation (“something that Cory Bernardi started”); and the Australian Taxpayers Alliance which runs the conservative online website, Menzies House.

    Welcome to the Bert Kelly Research Centre – the name Day has given the complex. It’s named after a former Liberal member, Bert Kelly

    Day has used this building – and his considerable financial resources – to assemble a carefully curated constellation of South Australia’s most conservative organisations.

    http://indaily.com.au/news/2013/09/04/inside-adelaides-conservative-hq/

  147. Paul Norton

    FDB @144, it’s also important to clarify that the Don Lane at the bottom of the list is the Queensland government minister rather than the entertainer.

  148. alfred venison

    they’re voting now on big brother after video pitches from abbott (arm in arm with daughters) rudd, milne and clive. goddmn it, eric! -a.v.

  149. Russell

    The Jakarta Post had an article this morning which described Julia Gillard supporters as ‘drowning in schadenfreude’ which is quite a complex idea …

  150. Brian

    Still no Abbott costings. I’m tipping now they’ll be late enough tomorrow to miss having any analysis in the papers on Friday.

    That’s if papers still do analysis. Right now all the MSM want to know from Rudd is whether he’s going to resign after he’s beaten.

  151. Casey

    Who watched Kitchen Cabinet last night? One curious thing was Abbott’s sensitivity regarding his faith. He seemed at pains to point out that faith in public life is not such a good thing. He described his faith as a distant sort of thing, not evangelical or pentecostal. ie, private and I’m not talking about whether I talk to God or not. It makes me think that the media have missed an opportunity here because a person of faith cannot separate out their beliefs from their world view. Clearly he doesn’t. It was a weak spot and the man has many weak spots and the media have done a woeful job in probing it and them.

  152. Katz

    When was the last time an Australian opposition conceded legislation that it had opposed previously on the basis that the incoming government had achieve an electoral “mandate”?

  153. Ronson Dalby

    “Neither should voters reward secrecy. The Coalition’s withholding of all costings has sent a bad signal that evasion is acceptable and safe.

    That’s even more worrying, knowing about 750,000 Australians – about 5 per cent of the 14.7 million registered voters – have cast prepoll ballots in partial darkness.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-editorial/the-silence-of-the-lambs-20130904-2t5ep.html

    For those early voters who’ve gone for the LNP, it must be nice to be able to trust a political party so much.

  154. Craig Mc

    When was the last time an Australian opposition conceded legislation that it had opposed previously on the basis that the incoming government had achieve an electoral “mandate”?

    2008 – The WorkChoice changes.

  155. Katz

    Nope. The remnant Libs repudiated Work Choices.

    “Dead, buried, cremated” … etc.

  156. paul burns

    The Jakarta Post had an article this morning which described Julia Gillard supporters as ‘drowning in schadenfreude’ which is quite a complex idea …

    As opposed to both Rudd and Gillard supporters drowning in shit, which is what we’ll all be doing (except for the RWDBs) on Sunday morning if Abbott wins on Saturday.

  157. Katz

    Not drowning. Waving.

  158. Helen

    I’m all agog to find out Unca Hockey’s Magical Mystery Costings today.

  159. jules

    Wasn’t there an electoral mandate to end the Pacific Solution and introduce some action on climate change via a cap and trade market for emissions after the 2007 election?

  160. Val

    Abbott vows to cut futile / obscure research (Daily Telegraph) – here it comes people, dark ages dark ages

  161. paul burns

    Read on Facebook, which is not always the most reliable source, that the LNP intends to reduce the tax free threshold to $6000. Is this so?

  162. Craig Mc

    Nope. The remnant Libs repudiated Work Choices

    Isn’t that your point? Aren’t we talking about the possibility of the ALP voting against its own carbon tax legislation after it loses the election?

  163. Tim Macknay

    Apparently Abbott’s costing will not include costings for the ‘Direct Action’ policy or his ersatz NBN policy. Now that’s chutzpah.

  164. Paul Norton

    In the light of the likely changes to the research funding and arts funding regimes under a Coalition government, I’ve decided it might be a good time to prepare an application for a grant to fund research into my “faction” novel about how the Communists were behind the attempted shooting of Phar Lap before the 1930 Melbourne Cup and his eventual demise in California, and ask Chris Mitchell if he’d like to serialise the book in his newspaper over the summer holiday period.

  165. faustusnotes

    Clive Palmer claims to have 30% of the vote, and Wendi Deng was a Chinese spy.

    I’m voting for him!

  166. Moz of Yarramulla

    Ronson Dalby@153:

    That’s even more worrying, knowing about 750,000 Australians – about 5 per cent of the 14.7 million registered voters – have cast prepoll ballots in partial darkness.”

    I thought that voting early was worth the risk. It’s technically possible that both parties would look at The Pirate Party, see the obvious superiority of their methods for running the party and swear that their only action after the election would be to immediately implement radical democracy and transparency within their parties, then reformulate their entire policy platforms and call another election.

    But it seems unlikely.

  167. Tim Macknay

    @Paul Norton

    …and ask Chris Mitchell if he’d like to serialise the book in his newspaper over the summer holiday period.

    Good idea. Chris Mitchell and the crew at The Australian appear to be technologically savvy enough to recognise that a novel serialisation in a print newspaper would be a cutting edge publishing approach.

  168. Katz

    Ever since Gillard was voted out of the prime ministership, the calls for her prosecution for alleged malfeasance have gone silent.

    Funny, that.

  169. Chris

    Ever since Gillard was voted out of the prime ministership, the calls for her prosecution for alleged malfeasance have gone silent.

    Actually just this week there was a story on one of the murdoch websites talking about how the Libs may start a (royal-like) commission to investigate it if they win government. Seemed a bit dodgy to me though (that they’d bother).

  170. Chris

    Katz @ 168 – btw I did look for the story – I think it was probably on news.com.au, but I haven’t been able to find it.

  171. Tim Macknay

    @Chris

    Seemed a bit dodgy to me though (that they’d bother).

    Yes, even if there was any substance to the allegations, given that they concerned events from decades ago that were completely unrelated to Gillard’s Prime Ministership or Parliamentary Career, pursuing her in such a manner would amount to an unprecedented level of persecution of a former political opponent.
    Mind you, our glorious soon-to-be Attorney General, George Brandis, isn’t exactly a high-minded, principled sort of a person.

  172. Ronson Dalby

    What can you do when you’ve got all the media against you?

    http://i.imgur.com/oKbHDql.jpg

  173. Chris

    Ronson @ 172 – the Canberra times is still holding out :-)

  174. Ronson Dalby

    How many other little gems is the LNP going to drop on us hours before the poll ?

    http://www.zdnet.com/au/australian-opposition-vows-to-implement-internet-filter-by-default-7000020270/

  175. faustusnotes

    Ronson, imagine how terrible the effect of that policy would be on internet speeds if the coalition were also refusing to invest in internet infrastructure …

  176. Casey
  177. Ronson Dalby

    Further detail on the filter: it will also be on smartphones and tablets. A household cannot opt out if there’s anyone under 18 living in it.

  178. duncanm

    Ever since Gillard was voted out of the prime ministership, the calls for her prosecution for alleged malfeasance have gone silent.

    well.. apart from the Vic police fraud squad raid back in May on S&G for Gillard’s files on the AWU, her personal records (time sheets, travel records, invoices etc) and exit interview record. Then Bruce Wilson trying to block it in court this month

    nothing to see here .. move along.

  179. duncanm

    btw.. the reference to “nothing to see here” is in relation to the ABC’s complete lack of interest in the story. If you get your news from them, you wouldn’t have known about any of this.

  180. jules

    Ronson Dalby

    WFT!!!

    Thats a scummy thing to do less than 48 hours before an election.

    Does adult content include political or radical opinions on stuff?

    Casey Albo was programming ok on rage the other night. He saw the Pogues!!!

    One of them programmed “Just One Fix” by ministry. Overall some great songs.

  181. Chris

    Further detail on the filter: it will also be on smartphones and tablets. A household cannot opt out if there’s anyone under 18 living in it.

    Most of the policy document is I think just crap, but I don’t see anywhere in it that a household with an under 18 living in can’t opt-out. It does say it can only be turned off if the owner is over 18. And it looks like they’re not enforcing any software on smartphones or tablets – they’re not a special case, just on the internet connection that the ISP provides whether it be wireless, wifi or ADSL/cable/fibre.

    I’d have little problem with making ISPs provide opt-in system which was what the LNP policy used to be. I think the former policy of just providing free or heavily subsidised filtering software for households was the most cost effective strategy. After all, anything they try to implement wont’ be too hard for a kid who is persistent to work around so its not really worth spending too much money on.

    The 3 months jail sentence for cyber bullying is also pretty stupid. Bullying is already an offence they’re no need to have a special law just because its done via a computer and start with “cyber-”, instead of say over the phone or by letter.

    Threats of takedowns on social media sites are pointless because the Australian government simply doesn’t have jurisdiction in most cases. And it just ends up being a good way to encourage social media sites not to host servers in Australia so we have slower access to them.

    More funding for research and information campaigns are probably a good idea though.

  182. Doug

    Substantial cuts to overseas aid is worth getting angry about – the economic justification is pretty thin considering that infrastructure projects can be financed by debt with the payments spread out along with the benefits

  183. GregM

    Katz @ 168 – btw I did look for the story – I think it was probably on news.com.au, but I haven’t been able to find it.

    It was on pages 1 and 6 of Wednesday’s Australian. It was a quite detailed article.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/investigations/gillards-law-firm-files-seized-as-police-investigate-awu-slush-fund/story-fn6tcxar-1226709397416

  184. Doug

    Coalition announcement of cut in funding for Melbourne Metro project shouldn’t do Adam Bandt’s chances any harm in Melbourne

  185. jules

    This is a list of sites that were blocked unreasonably by the UK opt out filter.

    Clearly the same thing will happen again with other sites if the coalition bring in this filter.

  186. Chris

    Turnbull has tweeted that the wrong policy got published:

    http://twitter.com/TurnbullMalcolm/status/375554766153068544

    and that they don’t support either mandatory or opt-out filtering. I’d guess that what did get released is rather indicative of disagreement within the LNP.

  187. Mindy

    Apparently the policy has disappeared off the website altogether now.

  188. jungney

    Oh God, no, no, no! Jesus fuck no! Oh help, not Abbott. Please. I ‘d rather have morehaemmorhoids. I s’ppose. Oh well. Never mind. Aargh, a future of reading and advocating the Jindiworobaks as the antidote. Old Oz. It’s alright, with revision.

    There you’se go. A rational response to the pols. Ain’t they just great.

    I reckon we are entering a period when illegality will be justifiable.

  189. alfred venison

    “I reckon we are entering a period when illegality will be justifiable”. which is why imo, to reply to a question you posted on another thread, they’re giving young moylan such a hard rap. deterrence. the state rules by terror ultimately. -a.v.

  190. desipis

    Turnbull has tweeted that the wrong policy got published

    “Got published”? Turnbull was on Triple J a couple of hours ago describing it exactly as an opt-out policy.

    @27:38: “…installing that software either in the smart phone or in the modem as a default which you can then switch off…”.

  191. Jacques de Molay

    The Libs are stumbling & backflipping already on their internet filter policy.

    http://www.afr.com/p/national/liberal_internet_filter_blunder_4s0oyIsy3TDwdoHekSjs1O

    Poorly worded my arse.

  192. jungney

    a.v., comrade, yep. He’s a braveheart, alright. The chips are down mate. Time to play.

  193. Jacques de Molay

    Turnbull caught out lying about their internet filter policy:

    The plans were slammed on social media, but Opposition communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull appeared to defend the policy during an interview on triple j’s Hack program.

    “It’s essentially installing that software either in the smart phone or in the modem as a default which you can switch off,” he said.

    However, Mr Turnbull later tweeted that he had only read the policy a short time before the interview, and was merely doing his best to “make sense of it”.

    He released a statement a short time afterwards saying the policy document was “poorly worded”.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-05/no-internet-filter-says-turnbull/4939156

  194. Chris

    Jacques – quickest policy backdown ever! It was very odd in that it was inconsistent with what they’d had since the Howard days. I wonder if they were trying to sneak something through at the last minute and then be able to claim that it was an election promise after the election. Because just like the ALP I’m sure there are conservative elements within the LNP that would like even mandatory filtering.

  195. Katz

    The Libs’ Internet policy is a keyhole view of the cultural agenda that is really driving Abbott’s quest for power.

    Stand by for more DLP bats flapping about the Coalition belfry.

    Either Abbott will mount a Night of the Long Knives, or Liberal moderates will chuck Rasputin into the frozen Lake Burley Griffin. Liberal bloodletting has not been more entertaining since the two dwarfs hacked the Colt from Kooyong.

  196. Craig Mc

    Liberal bloodletting has not been more entertaining since the two dwarfs hacked the Colt from Kooyong.

    Meanwhile, in the real world…

  197. J Frank Parnell

    Who needs non-core promises when you’ve got ‘poorly worded’ policies that can mean anything you want.

  198. Val

    Well I’ve just written my piece on why the LNP’s abandonment of (even) the (minimal) 5% emissions reduction target is a failure of us all.
    If only I could believe it would make a difference – but have to try I guess

  199. Graham Bell

    Half the names that get onto Honours Lists are those of people who have done great deeds for humanity and who have improved the lives of those around them: the other half are the usual culprits and scoundrels.

    Much the same happens with research funding: One half, or thereabouts, goes to genuine research – some with outcomes that may be immediate and obvious; some with outcomes that will emerge way in the future. The other half, or thereabouts, is squandered as handouts and sinecures to members of Australia’s moribund elite and other assorted layabouts with the right connections.

    That’s the way things are done in Australia. It’s the price we have to pay to get good people honoured and to get good research done. Before today, neither side of the politics would dare rock the boat because it would scare the daylights out of Australia’s failed elite, whether Labor or Liberal supporters.

    Suddenly, two days out from the election – Joe Hockey launched his crazy attack on research funding. What on earth was he thinking?? Does he really want to start a last-minute stampede of rusted-on Liberals supporters in blue-ribbon Liberal seats to surprised and delighted Labor or Greens candidates …. perhaps even to Palmer candidates?.

    Looks like Hockey should have done some …. research.

  200. Katz

    Liberal Internet policy:

    We propose that if any person is detected accessing inappropriate material on the Internet, a flying squad of duly ordained clergy will visit the premises and conduct a ceremony of exorcism of evil spirits.

    Whoops sorry. The above was badly worded.

  201. Linda

    I’m sorry they retracted the internet policy so swiftly. Threatening to interfere with men’s right to access porn would certainly have cost them the election.

  202. jungney

    A concise summary of Assange’s chances and related matters around Wikileaks.

  203. drsusancalvin

    ffs do they think this makes up for the last three years?

  204. Helen

    Val @198 – You should add a link if you’re referring to a post of yours. (I know we can get to it via your nym but it will get more people to click.)

    Today I had a look at Twitter and saw a LNP hashtag – now I’ve forgotten what it was and have no access to twitter here. Anyway it was at the top of the trending hashtags and had a tick and “Promoted” next to it. this is CLEARLY advertising, and the Libs are thumbing their noses at the advertising blackout. I hope the AEC fine them for it.

  205. Helen

    (Or does that mean I’m first up against the wall come Sunday?)

  206. Ronson Dalby

    Linda @ 201,

    More women have borrowed my gay stuff over the years than men have.

    Do really think a future government would be able stop at porn once a filter is up and running? The temptation would be just too great.

    Apart from all that, censorship only encourages the creative people to find ways to circumvent it.

  207. Linda

    Ronson @206: Read it again. I’m not in support of the filter, just confident that the threat of it would have kept Abbott out of office.

  208. Ronson Dalby

    My apologies then, Linda. I’m too used to reading comments like that on LP without seeing a feminist slant. :)

  209. PhiL

    I hear the word “wipeout” all over the place. But then the polls are quite consistent with a 52-48 to 53.47 TPP. This is hardly wipeout territory. More like 2004 than 1996 I think! William Bowe on his Bludger Track even puts the loss of seat for the ALP around a dozen.
    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/

    So why is Michelle Grattan mentioning “Labor Polls” putting the loss at around 20 seats , may be a few more ?
    http://theconversation.com/grattan-on-friday/

    What do you think?

  210. Ronson Dalby

    I just can’t bring myself to read anything Grattan writes these days.

  211. alfred venison

    thanks for that link, Jungney, great read. -alf.

  212. Ronson Dalby

    This certainly goes against most of what I’ve believed about asylum seekers:

    “Mr Morrison is correct.

    Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

    That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/morrison-correct-illegal-entry-asylum-seekers/4935372

  213. jules

    Those filters aren’t for porn anyway. They’re aimed at controlling dissent. Lock the gate could be automatically blocked in a filter. Wikileaks would. Adult content isn’t just sexually related material according to that definition in the liberal party policy page. The Uk one doesn’t just block porn either. It blocks a range of illegal and potentially terrorist related sites.

    A coalition filter could block Nimbin mardi grass web pages theoretically, as well as information about how to safely use drugs – including stuff like drink water if you drop pills and dance all night. It could block pages on how to safely blockade logging or mining sites, sites that support Jon Moylan. It could block heavy metal, the Dead Kennedys or controversial hip hop.

    There is a facility for people to complain and add sites to the filtered list isn’t there?

    They always frame this stuff as if its only about porn but it never is.

  214. jules

    Ronson that fact check is clearly bullshit.

    If it was illegal to ask for asylum in Australia then perhaps they might have a point. Cos it isn’t they don’t.

    Plus the article had this in the middle:

    Experts contacted by ABC Fact Check say it is not appropriate to use “illegal” when specifically describing asylum seekers or refugees.

    Fact check my arse.

  215. Tim Macknay

    Ronson @212 – that’s another example of the limitations of media “truth-checking” functions. Morrison is correct only in a very narrow technical sense, if you ascribe that certain connotations to the word “illegal”. Of course, Morrison uses the word deliberately in the knowledge that most people will interpret it to mean that asylum seekers are essentially criminals. Which, as the article points out, is incorrect.

  216. Tim Macknay

    Also, what jules said.

  217. Linda

    Jules@213

    Yes, my poor ladybrain can comprehend stuff. I do understand that the filter would block other things, my site would be one of them, no doubt.

    To make my point clearer, I am saying that the very thought of anything that could have been interpreted as interference with access to porn, would have gone against Abbott in a huge way (which would have been great). That’s how important porn is. Look at how quickly Ronson got in a flap when he thought one woman on one little blog was advocating for the filter. It illustrated my point quite neatly, I thought.

  218. Chris

    Ronson @206: Read it again. I’m not in support of the filter, just confident that the threat of it would have kept Abbott out of office.

    I kind of doubt that. The ALP went to the last election promising a mandatory filter and they still got in. Why would an opt-out filter cause Abbott more pain than Gillard?

  219. zorronsky

    I’ve been working hard to get the message across for Labor and the NBN.
    Why hasn’t there been intense work put in along the lines of:

    The NBN policy differences between Labor and LNP is really so simple.
    Labor wants Fibre from the network to your home with it’s unbeatable download AND upload speeds.
    Abbott wants your copper wire from the network to your home with the crap speeds you get now.

  220. Brian of Buderim

    I am concerned by the ever-increasing number of micro-parties. It is neither easy nor cheap to register a political party. I welcome some investigative journalism from the blogosphere into the source of funding for all these groups. I can’t see the mainstream media doing it – is any out there up to it?

  221. Ronson Dalby

    And let’s not forget that thanks to Sen Conroy ISPs Telstra, Optus and smaller ones implemented a ‘voluntary’ filter that supposedly uses the Interpol worst of the worst CP list.

    So a filter is already in place for a future government to use for nefarious reasons.

  222. Linda

    I have already clarified, Chris.

  223. Katz

    It’s possible that men have deteriorated morally since 2010.

    Some folks allege that p0rn does that to male-type persons.

  224. Ronson Dalby

    Linda @ 217,

    My last word: perhaps the wording in your original comment could have been a tad more succinct.

    Now back to the rearguard fight in the last hours before the likes Abbott, Abetz, Mirabella (hopefully not), Brandis, Morrison, Fierravanti-Wells, Pyne, the Bishops, Bernardi, Joyce etc. are in control of the country.

  225. Val

    Helen @ 204
    Here is the link to my post http://www.fairgreenplanet.blogspot.com about why LNP failing us all on climate and health

    I was being shy about ‘self-promotion’ sorry. Thanks for interest. Comments welcome. My twitter name is @Valakay I still haven’t worked out how to get that on the blog.

    [mod note: direct link to post is http://www.fairgreenplanet.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/wepublichealth-lnp-fails-us-all-on.html ]

  226. Linda

    Ronson @ 224

    I agree, hence the further clarification, but you are quite right. Let’s get back to the issues that matter.

  227. Ronson Dalby

    This is interesting:

    “21 things Vote Compass reveals about Australians”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-06/21-things-vote-compass-revealed-federal-election/4939224

    Despite this being an ABC, I know from my ‘Net travels that people of all political persuasions and biases have used the site.

    (Glad I don’t live in Queensland! ;) JOKE, folks. )

  228. Moz of Yarramulla

    Brian of Buderim@220: Save The Planet (Vic) is mostly funded by Adrian Whitehead out of his own pocket, with a few donations from supporters like me.

    The Pirate Party runs off member donations. Full disclosure is not on their website yet but will be.

    Remember that running a campaign can be pretty cheap, it’s the deposits and printing that suck money (but $10k is still an ample budget)

  229. jules

    I actually agree with your comment @ 201, Linda.

    Tho i doubt Abbott himself would see a filter that stopped porn as a high priority. He makes sleazy comments about high school girls and members of the party he leads all the time.

    Its the way those filters are framed and what usually happens with them, (following up a link @ 185 that lists a whole lot of sites blocked by the UKs opt out filter that aren’t even of any objectionable content, sexual or otherwise) that really bothers me. Its always sposed to be about protecting kids from pedophiles and from sex in general, but its only a short step to protecting them from dangerous ideas like communism or equal pay.

    The same thing happened with Conroy’s blacklist a few years ago. There were plenty of sites that weren’t objectional and some, like wikileaks, that actually promoted govt accountability – the sort of thing a healthy society needs.

    Or with the PMRC back in the 80s. I dunno if people know this or not, but one of the targets target of that campaign was the Dead Kennedys who were an overtly political punk band. I don’t think any of their content was sexual but it was framed that way cos of a Giger poster.

  230. Linda

    Jules @229. Regards to Abbott, I fully agree. As to the rest, you don’t have to explain to me (again) that those in power would like to block our access to masses of information, our knowledge of which would be against the interests of those in power. Blocking access to porn would actually be against the interests of those in power, which I’m sure on some crude level, Abbott understands.

  231. jules

    I’m not explaining it to you. I’m expressing how I feel about it to the world in general, as much to myself and other people I know who might read this as anyone else I don’t know.

  232. Val

    I still find it hard to believe we may actually have an LNP government tomorrow. But then I thought that about Howard in 1996 and Kennett in Vic 1992, so I may not be totally reliable.
    Surely the polls will narrow though

  233. Val

    The bad thing is, if the polls (including ‘the one that counts’) do narrow, Michelle Grattan et al will give the credit to Rudd, and all the little left wing tweeters and bloggers and community activists will be left screaming and tearing our hair out.

  234. Linda

    I’m also in shock, Val, and thoroughly depressed and angrier than usual about the next overlord that Boytown is imposing on me.

  235. Val

    The Age is the only paper that has come out in favour of Labor. I could almost forgive them for their treatment of Julia Gillard – except, no I can’t.

  236. PhiL

    The Bludger Track has the following prediction for the outcome in terms of HR seats:
    Coalition: 85 (+ 12)
    Labor: 62 (-10)
    Other : 3 (-2)

    I think they might be optimistic ( from Labor’s point of view). As a matter of comparison the seat distribution after the 1996 election was 94/55 with a TPP 53.6/ 46.4 ( slightly bigger margin that what these polls predict)

    The results in the marginal might skew things a little bit, but I cannot think that the swing will be more than 15 seats if the TPP stays close to the polls.

  237. Jacques de Molay

    I’m sorry they retracted the internet policy so swiftly. Threatening to interfere with men’s right to access porn would certainly have cost them the election.

    Clearly you would be surprised how many young women watch porn these days.

  238. Russell

    Just out watering the garden and listening to the radio – a mistake for my peace of mind. The program was the local ABC talkback on the subject of cutbacks to foreign aid. That horrible Robb says that it’s stupid while we are borrowing money and paying interest on it, to give it away.

    So then several callers ‘phone in to agree – how could we borrow money to give it away??

    Haven’t most of us had a mortgage, car loan or whatever and somehow managed to chuck a few dollars to the Salvos, or Red Cross, or whichever comes your way? Do many people say “No, I’m sorry, I can’t give anything while I’m in debt”?

    No one said that we mightn’t have a debt if we taxed Gina et al. a bit more.

  239. Jacques de Molay

    Russell,

    Unfortunately it’s a real boon for the Libs to hoodwink people into thinking debt is bad given most are or have been in debt due to things like mortgages. How they’ve even been able to mount that argument over the last few years speaks to the lack of quality in the ALP especially after they too joined in with the Libs surplus fetishism.

  240. GregM

    PhiL

    Does Bludger Track say whether one of the three “Other” seats is the seat of Indi? (fingers crossed in asking)

  241. Ootz

    Russel, here in Kennedy I came across the same sentiments. My guess is that you either live in Kennedy or Hinkler. The link by Ronson@227 outlines that

    “Queensland is also home to the top 10 seats that are least in favour of increasing foreign aid, least in favour of increasing university funding, least in favour of more action on climate change, and least in favour of pricing carbon.”

  242. tigtog